'Focus on perpetrators': Rape law 'based on consent' would be a distraction, place burden on victim

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00:00We're going to talk more about this now with Cecile Simmons, an author and expert in gender-based violence.

00:06Cecile, thanks for speaking to us.

00:07I mean, what do you think?

00:08Do France's laws on rape need to be modernized?

00:11Well, I think the reason why we are where we are is because the rate of prosecution

00:18is so low.

00:19I mean, that 95 percent of cases are brought to the police will never lead to anything.

00:24And so, you know, victims will see their abusers walk free.

00:29And I think that the reason why we're kind of debating this now is because there is the

00:33belief that introducing consent will make a meaningful, I suppose, legal difference.

00:39However, what we see from other countries is that many countries that have a consent-based

00:45definition have very similarly very low rates of conviction.

00:49I also think that one of the main concerns here is that by shifting to a consent-based

00:56definition, we will center the victim and place the burden of proving violence on the victim.

01:05Whereas what I believe we should do is focus on the perpetrators and the tactics they might

01:12use to coerce their victims.

01:14I also think that potentially with introducing consent into the law, we believe that we have

01:21this piece of legislation that will make a difference, but it's actually a distraction

01:24from all the other things that need to happen, including, you know, a comprehensive way to

01:30tackle rape culture, including through, you know, education and many other things.

01:35So it could potentially be a distraction from the action that we need.

01:39So I have concerns.

01:41Indeed, many feminists have concerns.

01:44And another problem is, I mean, as they say, the devil is really in the details.

01:48What if a woman were to say perhaps, yes, first give consent and then perhaps a bit

01:52later in the incident change her mind?

01:55I mean, could that be used against her eventually?

01:58Absolutely. And I think that the notion of consent is really fraught.

02:03And indeed, there is this, we think of it in black and white terms as a yes, no, whereas

02:08actually consent is incredibly fluid.

02:10And that also many forces can lead us to consent to things that actually we don't really

02:16want. And so it's quite, I think, outside of the law, there is an understanding that

02:20consent is a really minimal and problematic entry point into discussing what, you know,

02:27sex should be and relationships should be.

02:31So I think when it comes to consent in the law, there is a concern that I share from

02:36other feminists that essentially this will work in abuser's favour because, you know, I

02:43think because of the rape culture we're in, we'll be able to kind of victim blame and

02:49we'll be able to, I mean, perpetrators will be able to say, well, actually, she consented.

02:55And I think that that could actually end up, you know, expediting cases and actually

03:00playing into abuser's favour.

03:02Is this victim blaming this notion of shame?

03:04Why so many women don't go for it?

03:07I mean, I think the number is six percent of those who say they've been sexually

03:10assaulted who actually press charges.

03:13Absolutely, I think also just I think that women know that if they press charges, they're

03:19very unlikely to get justice.

03:21And I think there is an understanding of that.

03:23I think that as well, we need to think about the way that violence has been normalised

03:31in our society and through things like online pornography and things like that.

03:35So I think it's really we can end up actually internalising a lot of the kind of scripts

03:41and the violence that we see represented.

03:43And so it's not always you may not always realise that you have suffered from abuse

03:48as well.

03:51Cecile, thank you very much.

03:52Cecile Simmons there speaking to me from London.

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