Will the Pelicot mass rape trial prompt major change in France?

FRANCE 24 English

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00:00Lawyers are making their final submissions for the 50 men co-accused of the mass rape

00:04of a woman who was unconscious and drugged by her husband.

00:08The trial of Dominique Pulico, who has admitted his guilt, and the men he recruited online

00:14to rape and abuse his own wife, is nearing its legal climax.

00:17The prosecution has called for jail time of 4 to 18 years for the men of all walks of

00:22life who are aged from 26 to 74.

00:25The victim of these horrific attacks, Giselle Pulico, there she is, has waived her right

00:31to anonymity in order to highlight the horrors of the case and put on the front page the

00:37plight of women who suffer violence.

00:39Karis Garlands in Avignon for France 24.

00:43Among them fathers, husbands, a firefighter, a gardener and a nurse, we are now hearing

00:48the closing arguments of the lawyers of these 49 co-accused of Dominique Pulico, with one

00:54more being tried in absentia.

00:56Most of these men have been charged with aggravated rape against Giselle Pulico, the main defendant's

01:02ex-wife, and while many of them say no, she did not consent, many still deny the intention

01:09of raping her.

01:11So what then is their main line of defence?

01:14One of these lawyers this Thursday said that her client had been manipulated by Dominique

01:20Pulico, saying that yes, Giselle Pulico was a victim, but only of her then-husband and

01:27him alone.

01:28She added that her client never would have gone to the Pulico household had he known

01:33that Giselle had been drugged.

01:35This feeling of being manipulated has been echoed among several defendants.

01:40We spoke to one of them who said that he felt like he had been duped.

01:44He said that he was purely motivated by having sexual relations with Dominique Pulico, though

01:50he did admit to facilitating the rape of Giselle Pulico by her then-husband.

01:56He said it's difficult to admit that I am a rapist, and he said I am wrong to have not

02:02have alerted the authorities.

02:04He said that he felt a deep loneliness and fear.

02:07Prosecutors want him, for example, to go to jail for 10 years, and many defence lawyers

02:12are saying that these sentences would be disproportionate, especially in comparison to that of Dominique

02:18Pulico, who prosecutors want to see go to jail for 20 years, the maximum penalty.

02:24That was Karis Garland, our reporter at the trial, which of course is nearing its closing

02:29phases now with the verdicts set to be announced, the defence wrapping up as the days go by.

02:38Let's bring in Camille Lextre from Solidarité Femme here in Paris for more on the case,

02:44but also on the issue which is central to the case about drugging somebody and then

02:49having sexual relations, raping them.

02:53It is a shocking case on so many levels, this, isn't it?

02:56On a wider scale, do you think it will change attitudes among the authorities into how they

03:02deal with such cases, someone who's been drugged and raped?

03:06Well, yes, I think like the mentalities have been deeply shocked in France to discover

03:13that ordinary men can do such things.

03:17We, the associations, the NGOs that work against women's violence, we know that for years and

03:24we've been telling that for years.

03:26So there's been a change, of course, but if we are looking at the politics, there is no

03:35really support of Gisèle Pulico.

03:38No political people have made speeches to support Gisèle Pulico.

03:44So we need to have more than just little policies.

03:51And we have to have a society that really supports the victims and go behind them to

03:57make their trial easier and to assure them that the society is behind them and is not

04:06just looking at them.

04:08Camille, there is a long-standing misogyny at the centre of sexual violence cases.

04:16And it's been, it's horrible to say, but, you know, there are some people in justice

04:21circles, men, who say women did something to provoke it.

04:25Now, that argument doesn't hold water at all.

04:28You don't provoke those kinds of things.

04:29And certainly in Gisèle Pulico's case, it's not possible.

04:32You're unconscious.

04:33You've been drugged.

04:34It's not possible to provoke anything.

04:36Do you feel that the government, in the changes it's trying to make, is at least beginning

04:40to take things seriously?

04:42Yeah, there is changes.

04:45And we can only say that they are good changes.

04:49There are measures that have been announced by the prime minister that go in the right

04:54direction.

04:55It's not new measures.

04:56It's measures that we have been asking for.

04:59But it's always great when there is new measures.

05:02And we can only say that it's going in a great way.

05:06But the society, the rape culture, is deeply rooted.

05:12And with Gisèle Pulico, we have the example of the victim we can only believe.

05:17But we have to believe all the victims.

05:20And not only the ones that have videos and that have proof and that are in the situation

05:25where nothing can be said about them.

05:28The perfect victim is a problem.

05:30The perfect victim does not need to exist in order to listen to the victim.

05:36You don't need to be perfect to be considered as a victim.

05:40And we see in the measures that we really need to take account of all the victims, even

05:47those that don't have videos or that don't have physical proof.

05:52But to really have all those realities in mind when we do policies.

05:57Indeed, you're right Camille, because whatever your social standing, whether you're a clean

06:02living person or whether you indulge in things that perhaps society says aren't clean living.

06:07Whether you are a sex worker, male, female, it doesn't matter.

06:10If you haven't given consent, then it's rape.

06:13That's basically the bottom line, isn't it?

06:14And that's how it should be.

06:16Yeah, absolutely.

06:18And so nowadays in our law in France, the consent is not included.

06:23So what we could hear during this trial was that basically since the ex-husband gave the

06:31consent for Gisèle Pellicot, it was enough.

06:35And we really need to have education and to have this concept of consent in the law so

06:43that we really highlight the fact that a woman does not belong to her husband.

06:51Her life, her body is her own and she is able to will or not to will.

06:59If she is not able to do that, then there's no consent.

07:02Then it's rape.

07:04It's as simple as that.

07:06What you do, what you're saying, Camille, makes perfect sense.

07:08I don't think anybody who disagrees with you, I think, needs to sort of take a long hard

07:12look at themselves and ask themselves why.

07:14Can I ask you, Camille, because we're coming towards the end of this interview.

07:18Drugs like Rohypnol slipped into drinks in order to make somebody drowsy, knock them

07:22out and then abuse them.

07:24Those kind of things, the availability of drugs like that.

07:27This is all part of the problem, isn't it?

07:30Well, when we look at numbers, yeah, when we look at numbers, first of all, chemical

07:37subject submission is just one of many weapons.

07:42We see that it's basically drugs that you can buy at a pharmacy that is mainly used

07:48in the chemical subject submission.

07:51There is this problem, but the main issue is education.

07:55On the one hand, you have this huge subject about this trial and everybody is talking

08:00about that.

08:01But on the other hand, in France right now, there is a moral panic about education, about

08:08affection, relation and sexual life for children.

08:14And there is a huge fight against this education.

08:17So the roots is really the education, how you educate people basically to have a healthy,

08:24a nonviolent, respectful life and interactions, sexual interactions.

08:30And that's the huge subject, how prior to those violences, you act against those

08:38misogynist roots and how you manage to create a society where those ordinary men cannot

08:47rape anymore.

08:49Your message go far and wide, Camille L'Extrait from Solidarity Farm.

08:53Completely agree with you.

08:54I'm supposed.

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