Justice eludes victims of sexual violence: 1% of rape cases in France 'result in a conviction'

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00:00Indeed, we mark International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

00:04In France, it's hoped that the Pélico trial could be a catalyst for change.

00:08We're joined on set now by Alexandre Tkofsky, a lawyer and in-house counsel and board member

00:14for the Women for Women France, an NGO dedicated to gender-based violence,

00:18notably looking out for migrant women here in France.

00:22Firstly, Alexandre, I have to ask you for your reaction to this Pélico trial.

00:25We've seen that incredibly impressive Giselle Pélico waving her anonymity,

00:30calling for a change, calling for the shame to be shifted.

00:33Do you think this is a landmark case here in France and we will see change?

00:36I think that this case actually demonstrates one thing,

00:40is that we're still in a society that is dominated by male violence, misogyny,

00:46and that there's very little to no accountability, individual or collective.

00:51This case is a landmark case because not only of the number of defendants that we're seeing,

00:58it's also a case that is going to deconstruct the myths of what an abuser is.

01:04It's no longer the monster that's waiting for you in the parking lot.

01:07It's our brothers, our fathers, people that we love.

01:10It's people that come into our homes.

01:12And it's also a case that shows basically that

01:19the reactions of the defendants are astonishing as well.

01:2435 of them are not pleading guilty.

01:27Some of them are challenging the fact that their sexual acts are qualified of rape under French law.

01:34And there's also a reaction of the general public of men out there screaming, not all men.

01:40So it shows that we're still in a society that's very much dominated by this.

01:44And Giselle Perico, by waiving her right to anonymity,

01:48is actually letting us see this through a magnifying lens.

01:52And I think that the fact that she's allowing us to go into the courtroom with us

01:57is going to spark conversation.

02:01It has sparked conversation.

02:02And it's going to spark some change, hopefully, within society.

02:06It's definitely sparked conversations and debate.

02:09But let's look at this society reaction.

02:12And we saw protests across France again this weekend in support of Giselle Perico

02:18and calling for the match of society to change.

02:20But it was quite notably a one-sided protest, if I may.

02:25I believe you took part in them.

02:26Where were the men?

02:27Why are the men reacting the way they are here in France?

02:30Because they are still coming out defensive, even in the face of such a trial, are they not?

02:35Absolutely.

02:35So I was there on Saturday and there were 80,000 women and a few men.

02:44One notable difference is that there may have been a little more men

02:47than there were in September for the protests in support of Giselle Perico.

02:52But the conversation is still very much a conversation that's happening

02:57within these groups of women trying to make a change.

03:02And let me tell you, we're tired.

03:05But we're not only tired, we're angry and we're unstoppable.

03:10And I think that this energy and the sense of togetherness that we did feel

03:15on Saturday during these protests, that is what is going to hopefully

03:20allow us to be persistent in that fight and to get to that paradigm shift that we need to get to.

03:28But we do need to involve more men and we do need men to understand

03:34that this male violence is rooted in a system

03:38and that anyone who doesn't help deconstruct that system is part of the problem.

03:44So we need them.

03:45We need them around the table for this conversation.

03:49Now you work on the front line, if you like, of seeing this gender-based violence in France.

03:53Do you think France is a more macho society than other countries?

03:56Is the problem here worse than elsewhere?

03:58What I think is that the numbers are staggering in France.

04:01We have 271,000 registered cases of domestic abuse.

04:07There are 1,012 feminicides since Macron's first mandate.

04:14Every two minutes and 30 seconds, there's an attempted rape or a rape in France.

04:20That's enormous.

04:21And these numbers are only increasing annually.

04:25So I think that based on these statistics, we are ranking pretty low

04:31in comparison to our European counterparts.

04:36And do you think, I mean, the fact that they're at least being reported,

04:39does that, is that a sign that there's support for victims in France?

04:44That they're at least being supported?

04:46Like, are cases taken seriously?

04:47If somebody has that strength to report a sexual crime against them, an attack,

04:53how are they received, if you like, by authorities in France?

04:57I think that that's part of the, that's a huge part of the problem,

05:01is the way that they are received by police officers that are the first to register the claim,

05:08and the way that they're also treated by our judicial system as a whole.

05:13The Giselle Pellicot case has not only showed

05:16what the male violence and the male dominance within society,

05:22it's also shown the way that these victims are treated in our judicial system

05:27with defence attorneys that are using victim-blaming tactics.

05:33Not only them, also the tribunal who was asking some questions

05:37that are very close to victim-blaming tactics.

05:42And we've also heard very disturbing arguments coming from the defence that

05:48her husband's consent may have induced her own consent.

05:52So actually, all these arguments of rape culture are used by the judicial system.

06:00And it doesn't, it's not just in the courtroom.

06:02It starts also at the police station.

06:05So there is a big lack of support from the system as a whole for victims to come forth.

06:12Yeah, it makes it so increasingly hard because this Pellicot case,

06:15I mean, they've literally got video evidence,

06:17you know, you kind of think with that amount of evidence,

06:19it's quite astounding to me to see how much she was questioned

06:24and her consent called into question.

06:27Overall, I mean, are people successful when they bring their attackers to court here in France?

06:32No.

06:33Overall, they're not.

06:356% of rape cases are brought, are filed as a complaint.

06:436%.

06:44Are recorded as official.

06:45Are recorded as official complaints.

06:4874% are not prosecuted.

06:511% result in a conviction.

06:55So the short answer is no.

06:58And how is that justified?

06:59On a lack of evidence?

07:00Or how would, how do they?

07:02I think it's justified on a lack of training, for instance,

07:06for first off, a lack of training of the police

07:12and of prosecutors that are prosecuting these cases.

07:16And I think that we need to really ensure that we're providing specified training

07:25to the people that are supposed to support

07:28and who are the frontliners for these victims of gender-based violence.

07:33We need to put the budget into training,

07:37not only about sexual violences,

07:41but we also need to think about unconscious bias training.

07:44Because every victim is, has a very,

07:48it's a very hard journey to get to file a complaint

07:52and to actually get to court.

07:54But we need to understand that some victims are facing intersections

08:00and they are even, they're in a worse position than other victims

08:05to be able to express themselves in a language that they understand

08:11and that they speak.

08:13And to be felt as legitimate.

08:19A lot of the time, foreign-born women are not believed.

08:24We've had a crazy case, a recent case,

08:29where a foreign-born woman who was undocumented filed a complaint

08:35and the judge considered that she filed this complaint

08:39in order to get her papers.

08:43A few days later, this woman was found killed.

08:46So we're in a situation where we need to ensure

08:52that we're taking into consideration every single victim

08:57and that we're providing the right training to these frontliners.

09:01Because even you would imagine an undocumented person,

09:05it's particularly brave to bring forward a claim

09:08because you're already in that vulnerable position

09:10of could it be taken against you

09:12and you're seen as what are you doing in our country in the first place?

09:15Absolutely.

09:15These victims don't go to the police because they're scared

09:19that instead of finding a place of safety

09:22and instead of finding help,

09:24that they'll actually receive a request to leave the territory.

09:29And finally, are the police or those on the front line,

09:31are they open to that change in tone, to education on that level?

09:37I hope so.

09:39I hope so.

09:40I think that the initiative needs to come from maybe our politicians.

09:49We do need them to take that decision

09:54to have these specific trainings.

09:59Yeah.

10:00Yeah.

10:00And hopefully, as you say, this Pellico trial, if nothing else,

10:03it has brought it all very much into the spotlight

10:07and we can start to address it.

10:08Alexandra Lakhovsky, thanks so much for coming in

10:11on this International Day of the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

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