'Gisele Pelicot a symbol for the world in shifting shame onto perpetrators', expert says

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00:00Next, the Frenchman, charged with drugging, raping and recruiting at least 50 strangers

00:05to rape his own wife, has admitted his crimes.

00:08In a Paris courtroom, 71-year-old Dominique Pellicot begged forgiveness of his family.

00:13He said, I'm a rapist like the others in this room.

00:16His now ex-wife has waived anonymity to ensure public shaming of all her attackers.

00:24Flanked by her lawyers, Giselle Pellicot arrives at court.

00:29The 72-year-old attending trial as her husband takes the stand following delays due to issues

00:34with his health.

00:36On Tuesday, Dominique Pellicot admitted to the charges against him in their entirety.

00:40Adding, he was a rapist like all the others in the room.

00:44He asked his wife, children and grandchildren to accept his apologies.

00:48The 71-year-old said he regretted what he did, asked for forgiveness while acknowledging

00:53his actions were unforgivable.

00:55Dominique Pellicot is standing trial alongside 50 other men between the ages of 26 and 73.

01:02He is accused of orchestrating the rape of his wife by strangers after drugging her over

01:06the span of nine years.

01:08Some of the defendants said they believe Giselle Pellicot was pretending to be asleep and had

01:13in fact consented to sex, although that assertion is likely disputed after Tuesday's testimony.

01:19Dominique Pellicot's lawyer, meanwhile, says more details about her client will emerge.

01:25He was raped at the Chateauroux hospital when he was nine years old.

01:28He was present at a gang rape where others wanted him to participate when he was 14 years

01:32old.

01:33And he witnessed some scenes of sexual violence between his parents that he shouldn't have

01:37seen because a 14-year-old kid mustn't see that kind of thing.

01:41While Dominique Pellicot's testimony is expected to continue, his wife has already become a

01:46symbol of the struggle against sexual violence in France.

01:50Over the weekend, hundreds took to the streets across French cities in solidarity with Giselle

01:55Pellicot.

01:56Donald D'Souza there.

01:59Let's stay with this story and get more analysis.

02:01We're joined from Carleton University in Canada by Dr. Omdi Khan, a specialist on the socio-legal

02:07construction of deviant sexuality with a focus on kink, sex work and representations of hardcore

02:13eroticism.

02:14Thank you for being with us.

02:16And I'm interested to hear what you've got to think about this case.

02:20Looking at the case as a layman, it's it's I just find it sick.

02:24What is your take on what we're seeing happening, playing out in the court now?

02:27I mean, it's very shocking because it's so extreme.

02:32And yet it's not shocking because there's a history of men that husbands own their wives.

02:41And so before the law changed, for example, marital rape wasn't a crime.

02:46And so this idea that a man would have a right to have sex with his wife whenever she

02:51wanted to and even lend her out the way he would lend a car because he owns her in essence

02:57as her wife.

02:59That is part of the history, I think, that is the ideology underneath this horrible crime.

03:05Yeah, I'm totally shocked by the whole thing.

03:07I can't buy into anything you've just said at all.

03:09I'm not doubting what you're saying, doctor.

03:11I'm not doubting what you're saying.

03:13The whole thing seems repugnant to me.

03:16The defense tried to use the argument that the husband wasn't raping the wife, i.e. you

03:21can't rape within marriage.

03:23Clearly that is almost Stone Age thinking, isn't it?

03:26Well, I wish it was Stone Age, but the law changed in the 80s and 90s in Canada and France.

03:32So it's really not that long ago.

03:36And I think the problem is that even though the law changes, people still have that in

03:40their mind.

03:42And then you have the myth of, well, if she didn't say no, if she didn't resist, then

03:48it's fine.

03:49She was unconscious.

03:50He says it wasn't as traumatic because she's not conscious for the assault.

03:55So I feel like there's a lot of self-serving myths that perpetrators tell themselves, which

04:01make it seem justifiable what they do.

04:04Indeed.

04:05And that brings us to those who took part, because clearly Mr. Pelico has done this for

04:10his own gratification, whatever that might be, I can't begin to comprehend.

04:14But there've been other men who came and took part in this, and some said they didn't know,

04:18but the chances are they did know it was going on.

04:21That's conjecture from my part.

04:22But what would motivate someone to get involved in this kind of grubbery, this kind of horrific

04:29crime?

04:30Yeah.

04:31I mean, yeah, that's a great question.

04:34I mean, the men who engaged seem to look to the husband as the person to give consent.

04:43So they get their vicarious consent through the husband.

04:46And then I think that there is a kind of pleasure in this group activity.

04:51I think it's a part of the interaction, the secrecy, and the unconsciousness becomes part

04:58of the kind of perverse pleasure that they're getting from these attacks.

05:04I can't imagine what kind of excuses psychologically they're going to come up with as to why they

05:09were compelled to do what they did.

05:11And we've heard a little from the lawyer of Dominic Pelico, the 71-year-old who's now

05:15admitted being a rapist, that admitted what he's done, and he's gone on his hands and

05:20knees almost asking for forgiveness, a bit late, some might say.

05:25The lawyer making excuses as to why he might have turned out like this.

05:27But the fact is that no matter what happens to a person, you still have a choice to make.

05:32And he chose to do this.

05:34I think people just can't understand that he chose to do what he did.

05:38I mean, it's, you know, you're asking a question about human nature, right?

05:43He's saying, I wasn't born this way.

05:45It's because of trauma, uses the word addiction to talk about his behavior.

05:49So he's trying to frame his behavior within the discourse of mental health and post-traumatic.

05:57You know, most of us believe actually, despite all of that, many people have trauma.

06:02They make a choice to, you know, get better or do something else.

06:06And so, you know, it's kind of the mystery of kind of human psychology is, does he make

06:11this choice or is he just this product of this, you know, terrible childhood experiences,

06:16allegedly, that his lawyers want us to believe?

06:20And I think it's a bit hard for people to swallow that as, you know, as for you and

06:26for many of us, at the end of the day, he's saying sorry after he got caught.

06:31The victim has been incredibly brave in waiving anonymity in order to kind of put the shame

06:38onto those who committed the offenses, which is an incredibly brave thing for her to do.

06:43Oh, it's, I mean, it's so brave and people don't realize how new that is, right?

06:49Before, if a woman got raped, it was her fault.

06:52She must have done something, right?

06:54Or she's exaggerating or she secretly enjoyed it, right?

06:57Which is all the excuses, all the rape myths that people try to perpetuate.

07:01And the idea that a victim should be shamed, right?

07:04That is the patriarchal ideology from the past.

07:06And she is so bravely showing her face.

07:09And really, she has become a symbol for the world, not just France, in shifting that shame

07:14onto the perpetrators.

07:16People do different things to get their gratification.

07:20The key issue is, of course, it has to be with consent among consenting adults.

07:25And people need to agree what happens.

07:27None of that was happening, what was taking place in Southern France.

07:32That's right.

07:32And I think it's important for people to remember, you know, sex games that are consensual,

07:38where you get the direct consent from all the parties is wonderful.

07:42And people will consent to fantasies that would involve pretend force or pretend non-consent.

07:50And there's nothing wrong with that.

07:51But that is not at all what was happening here.

07:54This is an assault with zero consent.

07:57And in fact, you know, it can have even worse because he was gaslighting her.

08:02She was, you know, waking up with these symptoms of these major health problems.

08:06And he's, you know, not telling her the real reason is because she's being continually

08:11assaulted.

08:12And so I really think it's important to kind of separate consensual sexual interactions

08:16that can be alternative versus what's happening here, which is a clear violation of her bodily

08:22autonomy.

08:23Dr. Omni-Khan, there are so many other questions I'd like to ask you, but sadly time has run

08:27out.

08:27Thank you for your time with us here and sharing your analysis of what is an absolutely horrific

08:32case.

08:33And of course, that case continues at court in Paris.

08:36Dr. Omni-Khan of Carleton University, specialist on the social legal construction of deviant

08:41sexuality.

08:42Thank you for joining us and sharing your time with us.

08:45Thank you so much.

08:46You're very welcome.

08:47And as I say, the case continues here in Paris.

08:50Next.

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