00:05I would like to have colloquy with the author on this one just to try to get some additional information.
00:10I happen to be the chairman of ethics, so it would actually fall on me to be able to enforce this
00:15because much of the bill itself actually comes back to ethics on it.
00:19And so I am trying to be able to try a couple of things.
00:21Senator Slotkin brought this issue up of the qualified blind trust.
00:24That has been allowed to be able to say, if you are a big stockholder and you have it,
00:29you chose to be able to sell yours off.
00:31Some others come into it and say, hey, I have stock holdings.
00:34I'm not one of those, by the way.
00:36They would come in and say, I'm going to put all this in a qualified blind trust.
00:41They're prohibited from having communication with them.
00:43That person is actually managing it, and they're separated totally.
00:47This bill would say, no, you can't do that anymore.
00:49So if you have stocks, you can't put that in a qualified blind trust any longer.
00:53Why would that be?
00:55A couple of things.
00:56Number one, if you have a qualified blind trust and you are a member of Congress,
01:00again, you have until the beginning of your next term should the voter see fit to reelect you.
01:04I get that.
01:05But then after that, it's prohibited on it.
01:07Correct.
01:08So for those who know ahead of time that they're going to be joining this body,
01:12they can no longer use qualified blind trust.
01:13And the reason for that is, as you know, the rules on qualified blind trust are not airtight.
01:19They're actually very loose.
01:20It is very difficult to police.
01:22You don't police them, and the ethics committee.
01:24Well, the ethics committee, thank you for mentioning that.
01:26Ethics committee does police that.
01:27So thanks for telling me what I don't do.
01:29We do police that.
01:30You do not police the structure of the blind trust.
01:33We do, actually.
01:35Every single blind trust that's actually put in has to be approved.
01:37And they have to.
01:38And so before, you police then the buying and the selling and the communication back and forth between members?
01:42We do police the communication between the members and the individuals of the blind trust.
01:47That's correct.
01:47And so you think that that's an effective way.
01:50You're saying you think we need no changes now.
01:52You think that effectively accounts for any sort of.
01:55Again, this suddenly sounds like it's personal.
01:56You're telling me what I don't do.
01:58No, I'm just asking you a question.
01:59Because what we found over and over is when members of Congress have been investigated for securities violations, they have said over and over, oh, I had a trust.
02:09I had a trust.
02:10I didn't really know anything about it.
02:11And then as it turns out, they're communicating with their trustee.
02:16And they said, oh, we're allowed to do that.
02:18So you're telling me maybe they've violated multiple laws.
02:20Here's what I would say.
02:21I think that at the end of the day, if you're asking me why do we need to eliminate blind trust, it's because blind trusts, I think, are often workarounds because they can be structured in multiple different ways, right?
02:31There's not one way to structure blind trust, correct?
02:33Or there's only one way?
02:34There is a way that you have to structure it if you're in the Senate and going through ethics.
02:38Have you gone through that process before?
02:39No, because I don't have any of these securities, James, because when I got elected, I sold all of my trust in essence.
02:47I don't have a blind trust.
02:48I practice what I preach.
02:50I don't have individual stocks.
02:52I don't trade in stocks.
02:53I'm not a billionaire, unlike others on this committee.
02:56And what I think is the American people are sending us a clear message, and I hope that they are watching this today.
03:02They're sending us a message that they want us to behave as they behave.
03:06Right.
03:06So I'm just trying to ask some questions.
03:08I'm trying to figure out some things on this because of the way that it's shaped.
03:11I've got to be able to work through this.
03:13I do believe the qualified blind trust works.
03:15The folks that you're mentioning, I think, are folks that say, hey, I had a stockbroker.
03:21I had somebody that was handling that, but that was not a qualified blind trust.
03:24That's a very different structure to be able to have that.
03:27There's prohibited communication there.
03:29Many of the accusations that have come in the past several years have been somebody else was handling it, but it wasn't a qualified blind trust.
03:37So I was confused on why this particular one, because there haven't been accusations on that.
03:42That's somebody that comes in with some wealth, which I don't have, which you don't have.
03:45Someone with some wealth that comes in and says, hey, this family inheritance, whatever they may have, worked their whole life, got it.
03:51They could put in a blind trust over there.
03:53This also requires several things here.
03:56It requires you sell it rather than just prohibit trades.
03:59Several times I've heard you mention, hey, they shouldn't be trading in it.
04:03What about individuals that had stocks when they came?
04:05Why should they sell it to be able to be here?
04:08Why not just have a flat-out prohibition to say you can no longer buy, no longer sell?
04:11If you have it, stock market goes up and down, you can't touch it.
04:14You have to just leave it there.
04:15What was the decision to be able to say you've got to sell it all rather than just you can't trade anymore?
04:20Well, there is a ban on trading that would take effect immediately for all members, not just numbers who are coming in, but for all members.
04:29So I've been saying over and over that you have until your next term should you be reelected in order to divest,
04:34but you make the important point that the trading would be prohibited immediately.
04:38Your question is why even in the next term require people to divest?
04:42I think that the answer to that is because you know what you own, presumably.
04:46I mean, you know that you have assets in the following securities.
04:49That constitutes a financial interest, a pecuniary interest, and it presents a conflict of interest to be getting briefings,
04:58voting on legislation, doing these things where you know you could be increasing or decreasing the value of your portfolio.
05:03We also have farmers that are here in Congress that they vote on farm policy, and they also have ag provisions as well.
05:10And so you can't eliminate all provisions that are out there on that.
05:13So I'm just trying to be able to figure out.
05:15This also has a reporting requirement.
05:17If someone has an FHA loan, it has to come back to ethics, or a VA loan, it has to come back to ethics.
05:22If they're involved in any of the farm programs, it has to come back to ethics, and we've got to be able to track it.
05:26I'm trying to figure out what to be able to do on this.
05:28And then it eliminates the ability for someone to own crypto or stable coin.
05:33Now, we just passed a bill allowing stable coin to exist.
05:38I'm trying to figure out why stable coin is now in this as well.
05:41That's just a digital asset that has the same value as cash, but it's prohibited in this.
05:47I'm trying to figure out why stable coin is cut out on this.
05:50Well, you say in it now.
05:52I mean, it has been in it.
05:53It's in the bill that we passed a year ago before the most recent hasn't changed.
05:56The stable coin we just made the change on to be able to open up stable coin in the regulatory basis for all Americans.
06:01We didn't make the change in this bill.
06:02Congress passed a bill.
06:03I get that.
06:04That's why I'm just asking why it's still in this, that there's a prohibition for that kind of digital asset.
06:08It's just a dollar for dollar.
06:09It's the same as owning cash.
06:12So if you own a stable coin, that's the same as owning a dollar.
06:15It's only worth a dollar.
06:16It doesn't change in value.
06:17But a member of Congress wouldn't be able to own a stable coin anymore.
06:21Correct.
06:22And it's for the same reason, the same pecuniary interest, conflict of interest provisions that we think with individual stock.
06:28I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere.
06:29We drew the line in this place over a year ago when we drafted and passed this bill.
06:33Yeah, but I'm saying a stable coin is worth a dollar today.
06:36It's not a tradable asset.
06:38If it will get your vote, James, I'd be happy to change this on the floor.
06:41No, I'm asking because as the chairman of ethics, I've got to be able to actually enforce it.
06:45And if you're concerned that we won't be able to, the ethics committee won't be able to enforce it, we will absolutely work with you.
06:52And I know the ethics committee is a bipartisan committee.
06:55It is.
06:55And I know that your Democrat colleagues would also be happy to work with you to make sure that we can enforce this.
07:00We'll get you the guidance.
07:01And I'm happy to work with anybody on the floor who actually wants to change the bill to make it better.
07:05I mean, I agree with what Senator Slutkin said.
07:06This is not a perfect bill.
07:07It's not an ideal bill.
07:09Listen, there's provisions to this bill.
07:10I don't like that much.
07:11But here's my bottom line.
07:14I've been working on this for my seventh year now in the Senate.
07:17I've been working on it for seven years.
07:19I want a bill that can pass this committee, that can pass the Senate, and that can be signed into law by the president.
07:26The ranking member and I worked for two years to get the compromise text last time.
07:30Two years.
07:31Did I like everything in it?
07:32No.
07:33But you know what?
07:33We passed it through this committee.
07:35I just think this issue is too important to play politics with.
07:38We could do an easy messaging bill that would never pass.
07:41But if you want to really make a change and you want to make law, you're going to have to draw the line somewhere.
07:46So having said that, I will absolutely work with you, Senator Langford, and anybody else who says,
07:51okay, you know what?
07:51I think this needs to be changed.
07:53You look at this and say, you know what?
07:54I don't think these pieces are enforceable.
07:56All right.
07:56Let's move the debate on.
07:58Wait a minute.
07:58I haven't yielded, Senator Paul.
08:00This is an important debate.
08:02I think we should take all the time that we need.
08:05I think it's absolutely vital that we get it right and get it as close as we can.
08:10But what I do not want to do and what I will not consent to and what I'm going to be very critical of are attempts to kill it.
08:16Where it is, well, you know, this is not quite right, so we're going to kill it here.
08:19This is not quite what I want, so we're going to kill it.
08:21I don't want to kill it.
08:22I want to move it.
08:23I want to move it.
08:24I want to get this enacted.
08:25I want the American people to be able to trust this body.
08:27And I think that's why this vote today is so important.
08:30All right.
08:30Let's move it along.
08:31On the question of stablecoin that Senator Lankford brings up, the hope is that someday in the near future,
08:39it may be that everything you purchase on Amazon, stablecoin, is a choice.
08:43It may be at Walmart you use it.
08:45You're passing a law today that somehow may prohibit anybody in office from shopping on Amazon.
08:51So this isn't a very well-thought-out bill.
08:53We have a couple over here.
08:56Senator Gallego.
08:58And in case anyone's wondering, I am not the billionaire.
