Mark DeSaulnier: Colleges Must Counter Antisemitism While Upholding First Amendment Rights

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During a House Education Committee hearing before the Congressional recess, Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-CA) asked Chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley Dr. Rich Lyons about free speech in schools.

Transcript

00:00Expired. I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Desauniers.

00:04Thank you. Chancellor, do you want to have a few moments of my time to respond to that outrageous attack by my colleague?

00:11Again, thank you for the opportunity.

00:14I just want to make clear that the rules of the City University of New York apply to all our students, faculty, and staff.

00:21Anybody who behaves in any way that it is anti-Semitic, that sponsors violence against members of the Jewish community or any community,

00:32discriminated, harassed, will be investigated and held accountable based on our rules.

00:39That is clear. It's our commitment.

00:42I have been engaged in fighting anti-Semitism as Chancellor since I became the Chancellor in 2019.

00:49I have been working very closely with many of our Jewish stakeholder organizations,

00:54led a delegation of presidents and deans to Israel back in 2019 to encourage our ties with universities in Israel

01:03and cultural institutions and artistic institutions in Israel.

01:08We have made very clear our time and place and manner policies on our campuses

01:13to make sure that individuals can exercise their right.

01:17Thank you, Chancellor. Appreciate it.

01:20I want to save a little bit of my time, but I appreciate it.

01:23Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from Jewish faculty at the University of California

01:30supporting the actions of the administration against anti-Semitism.

01:34Without objection and hearing none, it will be entered.

01:37I want to thank all the witnesses here.

01:39Dr. Rose, I want to start with you as a proud alumni of a Jesuit education where they taught us to service to others

01:48and lifelong learning.

01:51So thank you for your presentation.

01:53And you have an example of that Jesuit education with former member Moran,

01:58who's a proud graduate like myself of the College of the Holy Cross sitting behind you.

02:02Chancellor Lyons, it's always delightful to see you.

02:06I don't have the honor of representing the campus itself,

02:10but I like to say that I can look down on your campus from Grizzly Peak on my side of the district.

02:16I want to, first of all, mention that you are from the Haas School of Business,

02:20one of the best business schools in the country, hardly a hotbed of anything but excellence.

02:26So you as the dean of that school, it's sort of the stereotypes that we get into.

02:32It's a very big school with a lot of great programs.

02:36It also can be proud of the fact that out of the University of California, Berkeley,

02:40there have been 59 Nobel laureates between alumni and faculty.

02:45I would also add, as a friend of the current rugby coach, it's also the home of 29 rugby championships.

02:51But could you talk about some of the things you've already mentioned that you've done,

02:57elaborate to any degree you'd like, about your involvement and your predecessors

03:02in trying to balance the First Amendment rights as a public university,

03:06the best public university in the country and arguably the best in the world,

03:10against hate and violence and anti-Semitism, which is no small feat.

03:15Well, thank you.

03:17I think a place to start is around what are so-called time, place, and manner rules.

03:24We encourage the expression of free speech on the Berkeley campus.

03:29That's an important part of a vibrant campus.

03:32It's an important part of a vibrant society.

03:35At the beginning, so I've been in my role for a year now,

03:38and we were very, very clear at the beginning of the year,

03:40across the whole UC system, I should say, certainly at Berkeley,

03:43tents are not allowed, tents are not part of an expression of free speech.

03:48Were we tested?

03:49We were tested.

03:50We took them down immediately.

03:53There's a gate on the campus called Sather Gate.

03:55It's right in the middle.

03:57It got partially blocked, and some of the times before I became chancellor,

04:01one of the no-tolerance rules we communicated it clearly

04:05is no blocking the gate and any part of the gate.

04:09There was a sukkah that got erected in front of the gate.

04:13We took it down effectively immediately.

04:17So, anyways, part of the time, place, and manner rules,

04:20that's not just something to counter anti-Semitism.

04:23Those time, place, and manner rules need to be content neutral, and they are.

04:27But we need to communicate what the standards are,

04:30while at the same time making sure students know

04:32that expressing your views consistent with the First Amendment

04:36is something that Berkeley doesn't just condone,

04:39it actually encourages it.

04:41And consistent with the letter from the faculty that I am submitting,

04:45how have the various communities responded to that?

04:49Well, thank you.

04:50You know, I'm particularly heartened by that faculty letter.

04:53They did not need to do that.

04:54There were over 80 of them.

04:56These are our Jewish faculty who are saying,

04:58not that Berkeley is perfect, as I said in my opening statement.

05:02We have some getting better to do, and we're going to do it.

05:04But the idea that we've made a lot of progress over the last year,

05:07and they are with us and with me, is heartening,

05:11and they like what they say.

05:12We've made a lot of changes, not just around time, place, and manner.

05:15We're connecting with the Jewish community

05:17and Jewish leadership in new ways.

05:20We have changed our education and training initiatives.

05:24We have a new course called Openness to Opposing Views

05:28that we plan to roll out as much as possible to incoming students.

05:32So there are many fronts.

05:34Appreciate that.

05:35The gentleman's time has expired.

05:37I recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Allen.

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