Kevin Kiley Repeatedly Asks Berkeley Chancellor Why College Campuses Are Hotbeds Of Antisemitism

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At today's House Education Committee hearing, Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-CA) questioned Dr. Rich Lyons, Chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley.

Transcript

00:00I thank the gentlelady, and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Kiley.

00:05Good morning, Chancellor Lyons. Thanks very much for being here.

00:08I want to say from the outset, I know you've only been Chancellor for a year,

00:11so I just want to ask a few questions, not for the purpose of assigning blame,

00:16but for getting a better understanding of the expectations that members of the Berkeley community can have going forward.

00:22And I also want to say at the outset that, well, I think Berkeley's reputation

00:26as being kind of a cartoonishly leftist institution is well-earned in some ways.

00:31In other ways, it is an enormously important institution for our country

00:36that does tremendously beneficial research, continues to do so,

00:41and provides tremendous opportunities to students across all of its campuses.

00:45So I want that to be acknowledged as an important part of the story as well.

00:49But let's just start with a simple question.

00:51Why do you believe anti-Semitism is so pervasive at Berkeley?

00:56Anti-Semitism is pervasive in the world.

01:02It's pervasive in this nation, in society.

01:06I think our universities are reflections of our societies,

01:09especially a large public university.

01:12But I think we'd agree that universities have been where the problem is probably most visible,

01:18and institutions like Berkeley, among a handful of others,

01:22have been the worst offenders in a sense.

01:25Why do you think that is?

01:28Well, have they been where it's most visible?

01:32I think, I'm not sure that it's where they're most present,

01:36but I think part of what we do see in universities is there is a freedom to express one's views,

01:42even if there's some, you know, some learning that needs to happen through that process.

01:47And I think that's a healthy part of what universities do.

01:52So students do express their views.

01:54You know, if 200 students express their views on our main plaza called Sproul Plaza, that's one-fifth of one percent.

02:03I guess, why does it exist at all?

02:04I mean, we're talking about not something like littering on campus.

02:07You know, this is the world's most retrograde prejudice.

02:11It's the prejudice at the heart of the worst crime in human history.

02:16Why does this exist at all on your campus?

02:18Have you thought about that?

02:18What's the, what the explanation might be?

02:21Well, I think we have to come back to your, anyone's use of the word anti-Semitism.

02:26I mean, if somebody is expressing pro-Palestinian beliefs, that's not necessarily anti-Semitism.

02:32But you've acknowledged that there is an anti-Semitism problem that predates October 7th,

02:37and there's been a disturbing rise.

02:39So I'm asking why.

02:40Why do you think that is?

02:41Yes.

02:42I, I did agree to that.

02:46I believe that part of it has to do with geopolitical events and a war in Gaza.

02:53Okay.

02:54I mean, I'm, that's, I'm not sure that's a full explanation, but I do want to move on

02:59to a couple other topics.

03:00So there were some incidents that were deeply disturbing on your campus, such as a checkpoint

03:05at Sather Gate, where Jewish students, their movement was impeded.

03:09Would you agree, and I'm not asking you to comment on individual cases, but that going

03:14forward, a student or faculty member who physically obstructs the movement of someone on the basis

03:20of their race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, that that is just an automatically expellable

03:25or fireable offense?

03:26Uh, going forward, we have a very clear no tolerance rule for blocking, say, their gate

03:34for any reason.

03:35And I will enforce it, and we have enforced it.

03:38I mentioned that in an earlier comment.

03:40But if, if, if someone does this specifically against a Jewish student or, or for someone,

03:45any other form of identity, I mean, what should the expectation be for what that student's

03:49or faculty member's punishment will be?

03:51I think there are some things, if someone's convicted of murder, you'd say automatically

03:55expellable offense, I'm sure, right?

03:56So what's the, what's the punishment here?

03:58Well, it's an important question.

04:00As we, in most universities, implemented more sharply defined time, place, and manner

04:05rules, we also have to think about how are we going to enforce those rules, usually with

04:11some kind of what we call tiered response.

04:13So the question is, is this a first offense?

04:16Is it a 20th offense?

04:17Was it, you know, how extreme was it?

04:20I mean, I've given you a very specific example, though.

04:22I don't know if it matters to me whether that's the first or 20th offense.

04:25If you're physically stopping someone from getting onto their campus because of who they

04:28are, that person should be expelled, shouldn't they?

04:31Well, part of it is, were they, were they physically restricting people that, that were

04:36from a different identity group at the same time?

04:39There's just a lot of context and facts before somebody could say we need to jump to the

04:43point where somebody's getting expelled.

04:46And we investigate those.

04:47We're very rigorous about our investigations.

04:49Yeah, what about the, the encampment?

04:51So we know that your predecessor reached a deal with the encampment organizers, and part

04:56of which was to endow this, this chair, this department that's now headed by the, the wannabe

05:01terrorist, Magdisi.

05:04Would you agree going forward that it's not appropriate to make policy changes in response

05:11to demands made by those who are in the process of violating campus rules?

05:15I can't second guess my predecessor, the, the facts and circumstances under which she was

05:22leading us at the time.

05:23Really, I, I was not in the role as, as you've pointed out.

05:27Going forward, I can speak to that, and that's why you invited me here.

05:32And going forward, we, you know, for example, there are certain things that we talk to students

05:39about all the time.

05:39They make demands.

05:40Let's, let's, let's leave ourselves beyond the anti-Semitism question.

05:44It's like, do we discuss improving the campus with students?

05:48The gentleman's time has expired.

05:49You need to.

05:50I'm sorry, we have to move on.

05:51My time has expired.

05:52I think that the issue with the encampment was that it clearly violated campus policies,

05:56but that was rewarded by the then, uh, chancellor, uh, by acceding to their demands.

06:02And I would hope that that is not going to be the approach taken by Berkeley going forward.

06:05I thank the gentleman, and I recognize the gentlelady from Arizona, Ms. Ansari.

06:09Thank you, Mr. Chair.

06:11Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

06:13Anti-Semitism has undoubtedly been on the rise for years.

06:17As we all know, although Jews constitute only 2% of the U.S. population,

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