Mark Harris Asks College Student About ‘Administrative Bloat’ Hiking Up Costs Of Higher Education

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During a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Wednesday, Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC) questioned Alex Shieh, a student at Brown University, about ‘administrative bloat’ affecting college costs for students.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank you to all of you that are on the panel today for

00:05your testimony.

00:06We've been in and out of other committee meetings, but I did have the privilege of reading your

00:10written testimonies in advance, and I do want to just ask you a couple of questions.

00:16For decades, elite universities were protected by the antitrust exemption under the understanding

00:22that they were going to provide these need-blind financial aid, which they arguably are not.

00:28And so, Mr. Martin, I want to go to you first.

00:31In your view, did the exemption do anything meaningful to bring down colleges' costs to

00:37make or make colleges' expense more accessible?

00:41I've not studied that, Congressman, but I'm aware of nothing.

00:46Okay.

00:47We really, I think, have seen what 30 years of colluding about the financial aid formulas

00:52did to college affordability and accessibility, but the exemption expired in 2022.

00:58So, my question again, Mr. Martin, would be to you.

01:00If we want students to be offered the best college experience at the lowest possible price,

01:06should Congress enact another antitrust exemption like Section 568 or force the schools to compete

01:14against one another?

01:15As an antitrust lawyer, Congressman, the free market is generally the best tool for solving

01:26problems of prices.

01:28Well, and I too, I believe that competition would play a role in bringing down college costs.

01:33And we have data from the last 30 years that the antitrust exemption only succeeded in making

01:39our elite institutions more elite and further remove the needs of everyday Americans.

01:46So, thank you.

01:47Thank you for your response.

01:48I want to go to Mr. Shia.

01:50And Mr. Shia, you caused quite a stir with your email to Brown's employees.

01:55Your efforts to shine a light on Brown University's excess mirrors our fight in Congress to cut

02:01wasteful spending as we're dealing with it day in and day out.

02:05Can you, I don't want to give you a chance to explain your motivation for shining a light

02:09on what you describe as administrative bloat.

02:13Exactly.

02:14Well, I think the root of the problem is that Brown is just so darn unaffordable for students

02:18all across the country.

02:20And that's why Brown has the richest median income of all the Ivy League schools.

02:24Like I said, half of the Brown student body is from the top 5% of Americans.

02:29And I just think that's wrong.

02:30I think that's morally wrong because the Ivy League is supposed to be a ladder to the American

02:34dream.

02:35But we're pulling up the ladder so that only rich kids can access it.

02:39And I think that's wrong.

02:40And I noticed in your written testimony that you pointed out there's roughly a ratio of

02:45one administrator for every two students.

02:49And I got to ask you, is this necessary for Brown students to obtain a degree?

02:54Certainly not.

02:55We've seen that in the past.

02:56Brown didn't have this ratio and it has functioned fine for hundreds of years.

03:00Across the pond, Oxford and Cambridge don't have that many administrators and they function

03:03fine.

03:04Certainly all these administrators are not necessary.

03:07And I would say, does this number of administrators meaningfully impact the overall experience of

03:13Brown students?

03:14Certainly not.

03:15And they might even detract from it because when budget cuts need to be made, the enormous

03:20administrative bloat means that and their unwillingness to reduce it means that the costs have to

03:25be cut somewhere else.

03:26Right.

03:27So at which lead, you almost answered my other question, is how could cutting some of the bloat

03:31benefit the consumer that's looking to come to Brown?

03:35Well, absolutely.

03:36Like dorms flood, the food is unappetizingly bad and the quality just keeps getting worse.

03:41Like they're reducing red meat from all the dining halls.

03:44They say it's about the environment, but it's really about the cost.

03:48And by reducing administrative bloat, we definitely could see some improvements in the student experience.

03:53Dr. Cooper, let me ask you, you said in your written testimony that, quote, the surplus revenues

03:58that Ivy League institutions enjoy currently fuel administrative bloat, but they could be

04:04used to create more seats for qualified applicants.

04:07Can you explain the benefits for our entire nation that could come from increased enrollment

04:13at these elite institutions?

04:16Absolutely.

04:16Right now, if you look at elite institutions, graduates, they are vastly overrepresented in

04:22the elites of business, politics and media.

04:25And if we were to expand Ivy League undergraduate colleges to more students, that would enable

04:29more students to get their foot in the door for this pipeline and enable, you know, a greater

04:33diversity of folks in those elite positions.

04:36So I would love to see Ivy League institutions use their endowments, use all the money they're currently

04:41spending on administration to expand and create opportunity for more of those students.

04:45Well, thank you.

04:46And thank you to all of you for shining the light that you're shining today.

04:50And Mr. Chairman, with that, I yield back.

04:52The gentleman yields back.

04:53Without objection, I ask unanimous consent to enter the record the following, a press release

04:57from the Department of Justice titled, Consent Decree Settles Charge of Conspiracy to Restrain

05:02and Price Competition on Financial Aid.

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