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00:00Ozzy singing Mama I'm Coming Home. I stood stage left. This guy is just commanding this stadium.
00:07Obviously such a heartfelt lyric, something I think probably every one of us can relate to. Just
00:12incredible. Rock, metal, prog, and everything in between. Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock
00:20with Meltdown. Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast
00:25platforms. And now it's time for today's conversation. Here's Meltdown. You know, normally
00:31when I do interviews, David, I prepare and I do all this stuff. But I thought, you know
00:35what? You've got so many things going on. I'm just going to wing it. But I really wanted
00:39to talk about the Black Sabbath show, of course, as you know, back and forth. But I mean, looking
00:46back on that, that was unreal. I just had Tommy Clefetis on last week and he got to play Ozzy's
00:52final set before the whole thing with the Black Sabbath. But I mean, if you could summarize
00:57your experience, what was it like?
00:59You know, what you saw, if you saw anything online, if you happened to catch the live stream,
01:05that is exactly what it was. It was that same heartfelt, generous feeling. Everybody was
01:13there to give. No one was there to take. No one was making it about them. Everyone was
01:18really making it about the retirement, you know, of Black Sabbath and Ozzy, at least from
01:25touring. Honoring that they are the original heavy metal band. They started it. It started
01:33in Birmingham with Judas Priest probably right behind it. I mean, literally like a year or
01:38two behind it. But that's where it comes from. And, you know, we all know that kind of
01:47I think the two heartfelt moments were Ozzy singing Mama, I'm coming home, which
01:53Whitfield Crane pulled me over to this little area through the barricade. And I sat there
01:58with the Trujillos watching the Sabbath show. We and I were kind of geeking out watching
02:06Geezer and we're watching the dynamic of the band, you know, and because Geezer just killed
02:11it, man. I mean, he, our bass player hero, Geezer, just, I felt like really just drove
02:16the bus right, you know, right through everything with the Sabbath set, which was great. And, but
02:25watching the Ozzy set, you know, what Whit told me is he told me that, and he lived with
02:32the Osbournes for a while, on and off, I think, you know. And he told me that, you know, Lemmy
02:39wrote the lyrics for that song, and it's actually about England. Mama, I'm coming home. So when
02:45you listen to the lyrics, times are changed, times are strange, da-da-da-da-da-da-da, right?
02:51It goes, hmm, okay. And the line I thought was always weird in that is, you could have been
02:56a better friend to me. I was like, okay. So is this, I'm mad at my mom. And then when
03:03Whit said it was about England, I'm like, ah, that makes sense, right? Because think about
03:07like, Lemmy and Ozzy leave England, move to LA, right? Where they kind of, you know,
03:17spent a lot of their time, right? So, you know, Lemmy wrote the lyric, but Ozzy's got to
03:21sing it, so it obviously has to be somewhat personal to him. So I thought that was a very
03:26interesting dynamic. So that's, I'm going with what Whit said. You know, Whit's got some kind
03:31of cool insights, you know? So look, Mama coming home for sure was the big heartfelt moment.
03:39Even more so, he's coming back home, you know, to where he started. And then also, obviously,
03:47the Youngblood performance of changes. And then I did a little, I did a little, looked up, you know,
03:55so apparently that was about when Bill Ward went through a divorce back in the early 70s.
04:01And Geezer wrote those lyrics. And, you know, isn't it funny? The lyrics in Sabbath were written
04:09by Geezer. A lot of the Ozzy lyrics were written by Bob Daisley, the bass player,
04:13right? And then Lemmy writes, Mama, I'm coming home. So it's kind of like the bass players,
04:19great, great lyric writers, storytellers, right? But, you know, changes was just phenomenal.
04:25I mean, I stood stage left and watched that and it was just unbelievable, man. I mean, that,
04:33you know, that was like anyone who's seen the Queen movie, you know, lately, right? That moment at
04:41Live Aid at Wembley Stadium, right? Where Remy Malek, of course, plays Freddie Mercury. You know,
04:50to see that. And then, of course, you and I may have actually seen Live Aid back in the day when it
04:55came out. It was that same feeling, man, of like, this guy is just commanding this stadium. And
05:04obviously, such a heartfelt lyric, something I think probably every one of us can relate to
05:09on some level. And just incredible. So, I mean, those are a couple of the takeaway moments. I mean,
05:19look, Steven Tyler killed it. Yeah. And actually, I look up and Ron Woods up there. Where did he come
05:25from? Like, he wasn't a nurse. And, you know, he came off and I just said, dude, can I get a picture
05:30with you? I was like, you know, what am I going to get a picture, you know, with a rolling stone? Not to
05:35mention the bass player from the Jeff Beck group, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of, you know,
05:39Ron, you know, not only is a guitar player, he's a fucking kick-ass bass player. And so, you know,
05:45so those were the moments, I think, that were just super cool, you know? And, you know, it was just,
05:52everybody was in a chill mode, you know, when we did the big photo, you know, with Ozzy. Everybody was
05:58there, you know, we were all hanging out. It was super chill. Everybody's a fan of everybody
06:04else. Me and Sammy Hager got a bunch of really good bro-down time together, which was super
06:10nice. And, you know, so it's just, everything, and me and Steven Tyler, you know, I hadn't
06:19seen him, and probably since he threw us off the Aerosmith tour back in 1993, you know?
06:26And, but, you know, it's, you know, we had some great talks. We didn't even bring that
06:33up. I don't think he cared, you know? I certainly didn't care, you know? So it was
06:38kind of like, there was just, all the right people were there, you know? They all had the
06:43right spirit, the right attitude, and it was just a great, it was just, it was literally
06:50like going away to summer camp, you know? It was just so freaking cool, man. It was awesome.
06:55You talk about Geezer writing all the lyrics and stuff. I interviewed him last year, and he
06:58said when Ronnie James Dio joined the band, it kind of took a little bit of the lyric
07:02writing weight off of his shoulders a little bit. But, hey, so you're with Whitfield Crane,
07:07which was, I saw your picture. It's so funny. I don't know if you saw my comment on Facebook
07:11or whatever, but you're outside with a wool hat on and like a winter jacket and pants, and
07:17Whitfield's in a baseball hat and a shirt and shorts. What's going on here?
07:22Well, he's a California kid. I'm a Minnesota kid, right? So, you know, we always used to joke
07:27about that Soundgarden lyric from Outshined, right? You know?
07:32Yeah, Feelin' Minnesota.
07:33Feelin' Minnesota. Yeah, look in California, but Feelin' Minnesota or whatever. Yeah, so
07:37that, I think me and Whit are a good example of that. You know, I love Whit, man. He, you
07:43know, somebody asked me, he goes, dude, what was up with that backpack? He got done singing,
07:47and then he goes over and picks up his backpack and goes, dude, his whole life is in that backpack.
07:50You know, he's, I think, born and raised in San Francisco. You know, I think he's maybe
07:56got a family that lives there or something. But dude, that guy just rolled around the earth
08:00with his backpack. He was still, we were sitting there having lunch, and he's like, man, he
08:04goes, I didn't even have a cell phone, you know, until recently. He goes, I didn't want
08:08one. I wanted to be present for this conversation. You know, and so he's kind of like this, you
08:14could almost imagine him like a rock and roll hippie, like a, like a, like a, you know,
08:19San Francisco, modern day, Haight-Ashbury kind of guy. You know, not a stoner, not a druggie
08:25at all, you know, just, but totally clear, totally present, and just in the moment, man.
08:31And I, and I, I've actually been thinking a lot about that. Because last time I saw Whit
08:35was in Oporto, Portugal, a couple years ago, Diath. We did a show over there, a festival,
08:41and Ugly Kid Joe was on the bill, and, and he comes over to the side of the stage,
08:46and, and I give him a big hug. He looks at me, it was kind of dark, and he goes,
08:50oh my God. He goes, whoa. You know, and we give him a big hug. He goes back out,
08:54sings another couple songs. He comes over, he goes, hey, you want a jam? I said, sure.
08:59Ace of Spades? I go, sure, no problem. He goes, all right, I'll let you know, right?
09:03So, you know, I'm standing there watching the set, and next thing you know, the
09:06encore comes. He goes, say hello to our friend David Olyphant. Next thing you know,
09:10I got the bass on him. I'm fucking jamming with Ugly Kid Joe. And that's just how
09:14Whit is, you know. He's, he's in the moment. He's just such a cool, earthy dude.
09:20And, you know, no pretenses, just, just always been the same guy, you know. And I,
09:27I think, you know, that's, there's a lot of that there on the gig, you know, that's
09:32just people who are, they're real. They're in the moment. They're, they weren't looking
09:38to sort of take something from the gig they were looking to give, you know.
09:41And I think that's probably the best description of that whole, that whole
09:44event, in my opinion. So I'm over here in London right now with Jeff Scott Soto.
09:51Oh, okay.
09:51We're going to be shooting a couple little video clips and promotion stuff.
09:55We have a new album coming out called Unbreakable. It'll be out August 15th on
10:00Rat Pack Records. They did the first record for us.
10:03And, you know, I, I caught me and our guitar player, Andy Martincelli from Italy.
10:11You know, we started writing that record here, right here in Wembley about, God,
10:18it was two, I think it was, I guess it was about two years, two and a half years
10:23ago. We started just putting some tracks down and that, we didn't even know if
10:28we were going to do a second Ellison Soto record, right? Jeff's busy.
10:33We're all busy. We're doing stuff, right? So we didn't know. So Andy and I just
10:36started carving tracks, putting some stuff down. And I was over here doing some
10:43Bass Warrior solo dates last year. And I happened to, you know, I hit Jeff. I
10:48said, Hey dude, would you be down for doing it? I wanted to do a queen cover. I was
10:54sitting at the, one of these open air festivals with Andy and, and I thought,
11:00you know, God, you wouldn't be great if we did death on two legs, you know, which
11:03is the opening song from night at the opera. And he's like, fuck yeah, it'd be
11:08killer. So I hit Jeff. I go, dude, I know he's a huge queen fan. I said, dude, let's
11:13do death on two legs. And he goes down, done. So that's our bonus track on the new
11:22record. And I just listened to it today and dude, he just kills it. I mean, he's such
11:27a fan of, and he knows Brian May, he knows the queen organization well and
11:31everything. So, um, so that's, that was, you know, kind of what started. And I
11:37said, Hey, not for nothing, would you be interested in doing a second record? And
11:41he goes, he goes, hell yeah. I'm like, really? He goes, yeah, man. Um, so, you
11:46know, he, he does trans-Siberian orchestra. So that kicks up by certainly, you
11:50know, late October, first November. So I said, so we got started writing the
11:56lyrics, the melodies and everything. And we got that done before he started the
12:01last TSO tour. And so we got everything done in the can, um, with the tracks by,
12:10you know, first part of November last year, um, Rat Pack re-upped for another
12:15one. We had our friend Chris Collier, uh, mix it. In fact, Chris was working on the
12:21Korn album and in between, you know, recording vocals with Jonathan
12:26Davis, he was mixing our record in between that, you know? So, um, so, you
12:31know, the record's done and I, man, I just listened to it today and, you know, I
12:36don't like to brag about my work, but dude, it's a really great record, man. It's
12:39really good. I think it's some of, some of my finest bass playing, um, that I've
12:45done. And it's really, it's a heartfelt record and, you know, it's just, I, I just,
12:52I'm, I'm a fan of it, you know? And I, I like when I'm a fan of stuff that I've
12:56done, especially when I step away from it for a few months and I come back to
12:59it and I go, okay, does it, does it, does it hold up or is it, does it sound
13:04dated? Were we just high or what were we thinking when we did this record? You
13:08know, like, and, and I listened to it and I just go, man, this is, this is
13:12really, it's a really strong record. So I'm, I'm, I'm super pumped about it.
13:16And, um, and, um, lyrically it's, it's strong. So yeah, I, I hope, I hope
13:23people check it out. It seems like the responses to it so far are really good
13:27and, um, I'll get you a track so you can spin it if you want as well. It's
13:31super good. Yeah, for sure. Now, you know, I, I wasn't thinking about this
13:34earlier, but you know, you, you brought it up. So you, you look back on records
13:38as far as Megadeth is concerned, what, what's the peak of Megadeth in your, your
13:42estimation? What's the, what's the album that you think stands out?
13:44You know, I go back to Calctown to Extinction, you know, and that to me,
13:50because there was such a culmination of a lot of things, you know, the eighties
13:54were, you know, your first record is just, you throw it up against the wall.
13:58This is it. You know, you're in there trying to figure out, you know, who you
14:02are, right. As you're in that process, you know, and I always find second
14:07records, which this would be for me and Jeff Scott Soto as well, you know, the
14:12sophomore record, if you will. I find them are usually the next level. They're the
14:19next big step up because you, you, you, you've kind of figured each other out a
14:24little bit. You, you know how your band is working. People are excited at the
14:29opportunity. I mean, I differ with Megadeth. It would be P-Cells. We were
14:33thrilled to get a, another shot. We thought, cause our, our experience with
14:37combat records was so cantankerous and just, you know, it was just such a rub
14:41that the fact that, you know, they came back to us and, you know, tripled our
14:45budget so we could actually make a better record, um, and better studios. And, you
14:51know, so that's, you know, for me, that's that, that, you know, got that going. And
14:56then of course, you know, we started the lineup changes on album three. It was so
14:59a person could sweat, you know, a lot of fans, they go to rust and peace. Um, and I
15:04understand why, you know, but that was also a lot of wind in our sails, you know, um,
15:12album four, you know, is, is a pretty critical album, um, for a band. So by the time we got
15:18to countdown to extinction, I felt like we were, you know, that again, that, that was album
15:24two of that lineup, right. With Nick and Marty. And the first one that we did all together
15:30as the four of us, cause really rust and peace was me, Dave, uh, me and Dave started with
15:36Chuck Beeler. And then we brought in Nick Menza and then finally, right before we went
15:40in the studio, Marty came in. So, um, you know, a lot of that record was already, you
15:46know, kind of, you know, ready to sail. But at the time Marty got involved, he had some
15:52significant contributions, of course, but I think countdown is when we really learned
15:56we became a band and then, you know, even euthanasia we recorded though. That album
16:01is basic tracks recorded live together, uh, without, without overdubs, you know, and I
16:07listened to that. I go, I can't believe we played that good together, you know? Um, and
16:12then of course you go to, you know, cryptic writing. So, you know, there's like that whole
16:16stretch of those four records together, you know, that was a pretty good canon of work
16:21right there, you know? Um, and that was one lineup, um, mostly one manager. It was, it
16:28was a real team, you know, and that, and that, that, you know, the team won the game,
16:32not any one individual. Yeah. I remember I was working in, you know, metal radio at the
16:37time. And I, I say that I was on an AM heavy metal station and we were in hangar 18 and we
16:43were playing all that stuff. And that, that record kind of, uh, almost like it kickstarted
16:47it. And then, and then once, you know, countdown comes out symphony, I mean, it just, you just
16:52blew you guys up. Yeah. Symphony was, you know, that, that, that song, you know, by the time we
17:02got that done in the studio and Max Norman did the edits and you really, you know, trimmed it,
17:07you know, crafted it into that song that it became, you know, that was, that felt like we had really
17:13arrived. Like we were really in the big time, you know what I mean? And it came in at number
17:17two and it was only, it was only number two next to, uh, Billy Ray Cyrus because he had that big
17:22single achy breaky heart. Right. And, um, you know, that song was, that song was so strong.
17:29And as you know, country radio is, is a huge force to be reckoned with, you know, that it was pretty
17:35hard to knock that one out of number one, but, um, you know, we sold a couple, I think a quarter
17:40million records that week and, uh, in our first week out of the box and that's pretty frigging
17:46huge, you know, they went on to sell a couple, two, three million records, you know, around the
17:50world eventually, um, probably three, almost closer to four now. Yeah. And that, you know,
17:56that, that set us up, you know? Um, and then, you know, after that records kind of naturally
18:02started selling a little bit less. Um, but of course then we had Seattle music, there was a lot of
18:07other things outside forces, but you know, that, that rest in peace heading into countdown,
18:15you know, that was really where everything lined up. Um, and I think we made, we made really great
18:21records, you know, those songs were, were well-written and, and we had just the right team
18:27around us of producers and managers. And, you know, there's a whole lot that goes with that,
18:31you know, and you know, a manager who got capital records and EMI or music publishers got everybody
18:38marching in the same direction. You know, there's a whole, there's a whole fucking team and a worldwide
18:43team when you're dealing with a beast, like, you know, capital and EMI, you know, you got to get the
18:48whole company rallied, you know, behind, behind something like that. And, and, and he, our manager
18:56did a great job with that. So it's, there was a lot that went into that.
18:59I remember a conversation I had with a musician in Buffalo where I was living and working at the
19:03time. And, uh, you know, everything was about heaviness and speed and this, any other thing
19:08symphony comes out. And I said to him, I said, dude, listen to this song. This song is heavy
19:13and it's not fast. It's like sad, but true kind of, you know, it's, there's this heavy thickness to it
19:18and it wasn't like dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, you know, you know, look, symphony of destruction
19:23is a pop song, you know, say what you will. It's a pop song, right? It's like, I listened to
19:28Linkin Park. And to me, it could be Backstreet Boys with some distorted guitars, you know what
19:33I mean? It's like, it's, it sounds, you know, like, uh, I don't want to call them a boy band,
19:37but you know, it sounds like that, right. That it, it, it's just, but it's crafted in a way that it,
19:42that it sounds heavy into that world. And I'm talking about the stuff from the nineties and the
19:48two thousands, you know, not, not the current stuff, but for Linkin Park. And I just use them as an
19:53example, but you know, there's a lot of, really, when you take a great song, it's the old adage,
19:57if you can break it down on an acoustic guitar and strum it and sing it right here in a room,
20:01right here, is it a song or not? Does it connect? You know, and again, let's go to back to the
20:07Sabbath gig, right? You know, Youngblood up there singing changes, acapella, you know, at the end of
20:13it, he was killing it. No one's even playing Adam Wakeman, the keyboard player, he just sat out and,
20:17you know, it's like, you thought the song was dumb. Youngblood goes back out under the fucking
20:24ego ramp for, give me, give me one more, you know, and sings it and gets the audience singing.
20:29You know, that's when you know, you've got a song, you know, when, when the whole world sings it,
20:35they know the lyrics, they know the melody, they can't wait to sing it some more because of,
20:40I mean, I get goosebumps. You just, you just, that connection is there and all 43,000 people in the
20:47stadium are singing it and feeling it. And by the same token, a few hours later, you see Metallica up
20:52there, you know, crushing through battery, you know, and their set, it's the same thing, right?
20:59It's like, these songs are such epics and have connected to millions of people around the world
21:05now for decades, you know, that when, you know, that's why Metallica can command a stadium like
21:10it's a club, you know, they come in there and, and they just, they just level the place, you know,
21:16and that was one of their best performances I've seen in a long time, man. They, I thought they
21:20really, they just came out like it was 1981, 82 black album, you know what I mean? So, uh,
21:29it was, it was, it was pretty devastating, you know, pretty annihilating, I should say,
21:33you know, I didn't watch Metallica come out that day. They killed it. So, so wrapping this up here,
21:38uh, would you, where, where, where does that gig rank in, in your lifetime as far as gigs you've
21:45played? You know, it, it was a one of a kind, you know, I mean, look, it sits up at, at, at,
21:51you know, it's a number one position, right? Because, um, look, I, you know, look, the big four had
21:59that same feeling around it, right? When we did that back in 2010, it was our community globally
22:05coming together to rally and support our love of this music, the success of it. It wasn't just
22:14the success of the four bands. It was the success of all of us that were part of that scene, fans,
22:22agents, managers, you know, the, the crew, you know what I mean? Metallica's got guys who've worked
22:27in that crew since ride the lightning, you know what I mean? That's how long, you know what I
22:31mean? So everybody that had been part of that, that was a celebration. And of course they broadcasted
22:37out into the movie theaters that night that we did the, you know, the live from Sophia Bulgaria thing.
22:43Um, so I had that experience once with that. And, and, and of course that was for a couple of years,
22:49we did those, but that, that feeling that night that we broadcasted out that where you knew
22:54everybody around the world was watching it. You know, I had friends in Phoenix going to see it,
22:58turning theaters into mosh pits, you know? Yeah. This was of that same level, you know, um, that,
23:07you know, it was a retirement party, you know, it's what it was, right? It was like,
23:11you know, it was a retirement party. And, um, you know, I brought Ozzy and Sharon some Ellison coffee.
23:17I thought, you know, she always show up, you know, to the party, bring something, you know,
23:21bring some brownies, bring some brownies, bring a flower, you know, I'll bring some champagne,
23:25whatever it is. I'm a coffee guy, right? Bring some coffee to the party, you know? Um,
23:29and you know, it, it's, um, you know, it changes the playing field when everybody's there
23:37to think about somebody other than yourself, you know, it gets rid of the, where's my limo?
23:43My dressing room's not the right size. Where's the caviar, you know, all the fucking eccentricities
23:48that you hear about from rock stars, true or not. Right. But it just got rid of that.
23:52You know what I mean? You know, Ozzy's dressing room, Metallica, Guns N' Roses, everybody's right
23:57down the same hallway. That's why you could just hang out. Everyone was out hanging out. No one's
24:00sitting in their dressing room. You know, Axl was out. I mean, you know, and, um, you know,
24:08and so, you know, he wanted to be there. So, you know, it, you know, first it was Slash and Duff and
24:14I think Axl got word and was like, fuck, I want to go, you know, let's bring Guns N' Roses. Let's
24:19do, you know, let's do this. It's funny because Guns had just played there like a couple of weeks
24:22before. Right. I saw that. Yeah. Then, and I think that, didn't they just play there again? I mean,
24:27they, they practically lived there in Villa Park, you know, they played there a bunch, you know,
24:31so, you know, but then to come back again and they, they were killing it, man. Guns was on fire,
24:36man. They were playing so good. I mean, they always do, but I mean, it was, you know,
24:41everybody was stripped down too. You know what I mean? It was kind of skeleton crew,
24:46skeleton meaning, you know, pretty basic backline, basic crew, you know, everybody didn't have all
24:53their, you know, creature comforts, right. It was kind of, you know, fly in, you know, uh, you know,
25:00do the gig. So, you know, when, when everybody's sort of on the same playing field, you know what I
25:07mean? That, that, um, and everybody was required, of course, to play a Black Sabbath song. And so
25:13I found that was interesting. The songs that were chosen, um, you know, I told Slash, he goes, dude,
25:20um, never say die. I mean, cause Megan, if we covered that on the euthanasia record,
25:25we did a cover of that for, um, as like a B side and paranoid on another record and paranoid. Yep.
25:32On another, yep. For that nativity in black. So I thought that was very cool. Um, I was just
25:38stoked. I got to play with Jakey Lee, you know, I'd met Jake once before at NAMM cause we're Jackson
25:43guitars. He's a Charvel. I'm a Jackson guy. So I got to meet him just briefly. So it was great to
25:48play with him. We were kind of travel buddies, hang buddies, you know, so we, we, we sort of were
25:52buddies for the week. You know, we were always in the same van to and from soundcheck and the gig and
25:59stuff. So, you know, it was just great just to, you know, become friends with the guy, you know,
26:02and, uh, um, ask a few questions about some stuff and, um, you know, so, you know, we all kind of
26:11got to have our fan moments. We got to have our, our, our buddy moments. And then it was time to get
26:16on stage and melt faces and kick ass, you know? So it was really such a cool deal. Well, I was,
26:22I was happy for you and, uh, really glad to see you and Frank up there and some of my other friends
26:27and some of my friends that were there that didn't play, you know, they were just, uh, there
26:30as fans and, uh, well, I'll tell you what, dude, it's always great to talk with you. We could talk
26:34for another six hours, I'm sure, but, uh, I've got to cut out, but, uh, listen, uh, uh, thank you so
26:39much for, uh, taking some time, uh, in London to, uh, tell me about this, uh, great concert.
26:44Yeah, you're welcome, man. Thanks for hitting me up and, uh, I'll be back stateside here in a couple
26:49of weeks, ready to do a bass story and some conventions with Chris Poland and get, get, you know, get back
26:55over to that side of the world. So, um, but, uh, yeah, have a good summer, man. Good chat.
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