'Why Can't You Learn?': Catherine Cortez Masto Rips Forest Service Chief Over Public Land Sales

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During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV) asked Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz about public land sales.

Transcript

00:00Thank you. Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Chief, for being here.

00:05Appreciate it. I look forward to working with you. So can I ask, as we're talking

00:09about the combination of the U.S. Forest Service firefighting crew along with the

00:15Interior and this new Bureau and this combination of combining the existing

00:23wildline fire programs, when this happens, what involvement will the U.S.

00:30Forest Service still have in this new Bureau? Senator Cortez Masto. So right now

00:38we haven't figured that plan out yet. So right now the executive order directs us

00:41within 90 days to come up with a plan. So in terms of what that's going to look

00:44like, we know that the Forest Service, the firefighting capacity, Forest Service is

00:48projected to move to Department of Interior to create this fire service. So

00:52the Forest Service would be a component of that. Whether, how that exactly is

00:57structured, we don't know yet because we haven't come up with that plan yet. But

00:59we would still have a role. We would just be within this unified fire service. So I

01:03think that's what we'd all be interested in. We want the specifics, obviously,

01:06because of our states and the impact these fires have. So if you would be

01:10willing to share that with us when that comes to fruition, that would be very, very

01:13helpful. Yes, ma'am. Right now we have that 90-day plan that we're working on as we

01:17speak. Thank you. How many Forest Service employees, I'm curious, in Nevada and the

01:21Lake Tahoe Basin were let go or left since the beginning of this administration. Do you

01:25know? Senator Cortez, I don't have those numbers. We can get those to you. Okay.

01:29Thank you. I appreciate that. And then we all have talked about this. We know the

01:35Forest Service has long struggled to recruit and retain wildland firefighters. But

01:40I'm curious. I was upset to learn that the Trump administration scrapped the

01:46women in wildfire boot camps program because the administration deemed them

01:51unnecessary DEI initiatives. Now these were programs that were offered to women

01:56to learn the basics of wildland firefighting over a two-week course. So

02:01please explain to me why when we need wildland firefighters we're scrapping

02:07programs that provide training to both men and women to be in this fight to help us

02:13address these fires that are happening across the West all the time now. Longer,

02:18hotter seasons and we need firefighters. Why was that program scrapped? So Senator

02:23Cortez Masto, what we've done is we've looked at all of our contracts. Everything

02:27that we've got, we've looked at that. The department's looked at those and our

02:31assistance from the DOGE folks looked at those as well. So when we're looking at

02:35those types of issues we're looking at, you know, we have training for all

02:38firefighters not just women. So instead of just focusing solely on women, we look at

02:42what opportunities for training do we have. We have numerous opportunities to

02:45train firefighters not just focusing on women. So I, I think that was the, the

02:49thought behind that is that there's still ample opportunities for all

02:52firefighters to be trained without just singling out solely women in that case.

02:55Right, but this wasn't really singling out women. This is providing programs to

03:00train firefighters whether they are women or men. Who cares? What if there's a

03:03program that just trains men? What, what's the big deal? As long as we're

03:06training wildland firefighters, whether it's a man or a woman, those programs

03:10should be supported. We need all hands on deck in the West during these fire

03:16seasons. So why pick and choose? Well I would agree that we need all hands on

03:18deck and I think we're looking at training that provides opportunities for

03:21everybody to have all hands on deck. I think that's the response. All right, well

03:25I disagree and I think it's just a, it's a poor, it's a poor use of the

03:30administration's discretion. Let me ask you this, the Ruby Mountains in northern

03:34Nevada is one of my state's most rare cherished places. It's loved by hunters,

03:39outdoor enthusiasts, recreationist tribes, local community leaders. I can't explain

03:47it enough and for many years all of us, and it goes back to what you've heard in

03:50the West, all of the stakeholders, everybody in my state coming together, I

03:55don't care what party you are, it's everybody coming together to protect the

03:59Ruby Mountains from spurious oil and gas activity that took place there a few years

04:04ago in 2017. This committee previously approved my bill, the Ruby Mountains

04:09Protection Act, to permanently prohibit oil and gas development there following a

04:142019 finding by the Forest Service that no leasing should occur there due to the

04:19very low potential to develop oil and gas resources in the area and the

04:25substantive public opposition. The Biden administration announced it was

04:30initiating a 20-year administrative withdrawal process to protect the Ruby

04:34Mountain area from oil and gas leasing. However, this administration, the Trump

04:39administration, reversed these protections for the rubies and the only

04:43formal notification I received of this reversal was by reading a USDA press release

04:50and it stated, the agency also canceled two mineral leasing withdrawals on Forest

04:56Service land that will help boost production of critical minerals, which I was

05:01told pertained to the Ruby Mountains in Nevada and another proposed withdrawal in

05:04New Mexico. So let me just be clear, Nevadans don't want drilling in the Ruby

05:09Mountains. So I'm curious, what production of critical minerals does the Forest

05:16Service expect to develop in the Ruby Mountains? So Senator Cortez Masto, first of

05:23all, on future communications, I will communicate with you directly. Thank you. On

05:27the issue of what we would expect, so typically what happens with leasing of

05:31minerals, the Forest Service isn't out there trying to basically promote a

05:36certain activity or not, but it would be made available if there, if someone deemed

05:40that there was a resource there that would be available for leasing. And I think

05:43that was the intent of this. Actually, that's already been done and that's my

05:46point. It seems like everything that's been done in the past, including the

05:50speculative leasing that has been denied in the past, is being ignored because it

05:53was done under a previous administration. It makes no sense. We're wasting the

05:57resources of your men and women that work for you, as well as in the interior,

06:02because this administration thinks that they've got to start from scratch when

06:06they should be actually looking what has happened in the past and not waste

06:09everybody's time. So I'm curious, along with the critical minerals, what does this

06:14administration have plans to do to open Ruby Mountains for oil and gas drilling?

06:18Because now you're telling me that you're willing to do that as well, even

06:22though we've already gone through this process. This is Groundhog's Day. I mean,

06:26literally, we're repeating this over again. So what is going on?

06:29Senator Corden has a mask, so I think there's nothing going on other than we

06:33want to make these lands available to be leased. But they already were

06:36available and your administration said, no, there is no oil and gas available here.

06:41It's low potential and the community doesn't want it. Why would you start this

06:45process over again? Why can't you learn from what was happening in the past? Was

06:48there some problem there? Something that you're not, we're not aware of? It would

06:51help my constituents in Nevada understand why this administration wants to

06:56repeat the past. I think the short answer, Senator, is just that we want to make it

07:01available so if there is an interest that we can evaluate that. It doesn't mean

07:04it would automatically be leased. They have to demonstrate. I appreciate Chief and I'm

07:07not going to belabor this. Listen, I appreciate this and I'm going over my

07:10time and I thank you for the indulgence. I look forward to working with you and

07:14talking to you about this.

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