Maria Cantwell Shreds Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz Over Conservation Grant Funding Freezes

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During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) asked Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz about his agency's budget.

Transcript

00:00Senator Cantwell.

00:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:05First, I want to thank you, Chief Schultz, for being here.

00:09And I want to take a moment with my colleague from Idaho to acknowledge the sacrifice and

00:15bravery of the firefighters in the Coeur d'Alene, Idaho area.

00:19And my condolences go out to their families and to this community.

00:23And so we want to remember these individuals and, again, thank the firefighters all across

00:32the nation.

00:35Chief Schultz, the season is upon us.

00:37I think my staff probably has our most recent charts that show how bad our prediction is

00:43for this summer.

00:45You know, each month it gets more dramatic.

00:48And so the challenges that we face is we want to prepare.

00:53And I think as the nation sees practically 24-7 coverage of what natural disasters can do

01:00to a community, one of the best things that you can do is cache resources early.

01:06And that cache, meaning C-A-C-H-E, cache them early so that they're close to the proximity

01:13of where they need to be.

01:15And that's always the best thing to do.

01:18And I do think, you know, people are probably asking questions why, if you thought you were

01:23going to have flood season in Texas, why didn't you have more resources there at an earlier

01:28time?

01:29But now we know this is the outlook for us.

01:32My colleague and I, I think our whole states will be covered in red.

01:35I don't know about you, but as I fly home every week I see less and less snow on the

01:39Cascades and I keep thinking, wow, this is really a challenge.

01:43Because you're just going to have drier and drier conditions.

01:46Okay.

01:47So where is the resource for the state?

01:50I think it's, you know, a budget that's already been approved.

01:56So why aren't we, why aren't we releasing the funds that go to the community so that they

02:03can best prepare for this fire season?

02:05Senator Campbell, thanks for the question.

02:09I think you're talking about the SFA and the VFA funding.

02:11We were talking about that previously.

02:13So we are evaluating that right now.

02:16We've had a lot of feedback from the state foresters.

02:18We're working with OMB on that question right now, looking at that issue.

02:22So we have not made a determination yet, but that's something that is being evaluated.

02:26So when, when, when do you expect that to go out?

02:31So we expect there probably to be determination in the next several weeks would be my expectation.

02:37Okay.

02:38But we don't, again, we can't commit that that's for sure going to go out yet.

02:41We're still, that's still under discussion.

02:43Well, we just, we want to follow the normal process so that the forest services working,

02:50you know, with others to get the resources in, into those communities and do the work that they need to do.

02:57Same question about LWCF.

02:59Why, why is that money being held up by OMB or others?

03:03So, Senator Cantwell, what we're looking at is just looking at the administration's priorities

03:08and looking at the 25 budget to make sure the, the work that we're doing is in alignment with the priorities of the administration.

03:15So that's something that's just being evaluated right now.

03:17Um, and we're, we're still looking at that.

03:19But if LWCF, our projects submitted and approved by Congress, this committee played a key role in saying,

03:25we want to fund these and let's move forward.

03:27Why is OMB now requiring, you know, a review of LWCF projects?

03:34Senator, I think it's just like I mentioned.

03:36We're looking at all those programs in the 25 budget, just looking at alignment with the priorities of the administration.

03:42What does that mean?

03:43That you're creating a different process than exists that has been practiced for 50 or 60 years?

03:49I don't think it's that we're creating a new process.

03:53I think what we're saying is that just given the authorities in this year,

03:57so I think the language looking is that, so we're saying the president is acting within his authority

04:00for the full year continuing appropriations to revise spending within the amounts provided by Congress.

04:05I mean, I think that's, that's what's being done.

04:07We're looking at that right now.

04:09Okay.

04:10And then on the roadless rule, you know, I love my colleague from Idaho.

04:13He probably doesn't want me to say that.

04:14Okay.

04:15I'll pretend I don't like you.

04:16How about that?

04:17I don't like you.

04:18But he did implement a roadless rule in his state, which he got the people together and he got it done.

04:29He made the right decisions.

04:31So, or he made a lot of decisions.

04:33Okay.

04:34He made a lot of decisions.

04:35So he, that's the prerogative.

04:38Like that was the way it worked.

04:39Like a state could step up and do the work or you could have somebody else tell you.

04:43In this case, he did the work.

04:44So are you aware that researchers found that approximately 88% of all wildfires are human caused

04:50and 95% of those fires are, we ignited within a half a mile of a road, a road.

04:56And so one of the reasons why the roadless rule was good for some of these areas because no, we're not,

05:02we're not having roads all over the place and we're not igniting fires all over the place.

05:07So do you have an assessment of the, of the cost of rescinding the roadless rule when you might be building roads

05:16into pristine areas and causing more challenges?

05:19So Senator, I think our bigger concern isn't building roads into pristine areas.

05:24It's that we've got 24 and a half million acres of the roughly 60 million acres of roadless that is within either,

05:30it's either in the WUI or it's within a mile of the WUI.

05:33So that is our primary concern on this is that we've got areas and much,

05:37I mentioned this earlier in my testimony that there is much roadless area that actually has roads in it.

05:41I was on the Helena Lewis and Clark forest last week.

05:44The Lolo forest has roads.

05:45It's not uncommon that roadless areas do have roads.

05:48Um, it just.

05:49No, the question is whether we want to continue that process.

05:52And I think what, you know, I think what everybody wants is to not, we want to maintain our forest.

06:00We want to have recreational areas.

06:02We want to invest in the resources to have the public go enjoy those recreational areas.

06:07I personally don't want to sell public lands.

06:10So, but at the same time, you're, you're saying let's not build more roads in places we don't need to build more roads.

06:18Just because somebody, one or two people have a great idea that that's what they want to go do.

06:22Let's set aside those areas that we think, no, really, we shouldn't be building roads there.

06:26That was the whole point of the roadless rule is to make those decisions.

06:30And as I said, my colleague was successful at making those decisions and prioritizing that.

06:34And so now, if you're saying the wildland urban interface is really an issue.

06:39Yeah, I, I, I agree.

06:41The wildland urban interface should be debated every day of the week now.

06:45Because what we're finding is that we almost had literally a fire approach Spokane.

06:51I mean, there, there are people who are looking at and saying not where the next, you know, fire like the Palisades or like Hawaii,

07:00but people are saying the next event is going to be something that goes all the way from the WUI to a major urban city and could,

07:09and could cause that much damage.

07:11And that's what happened outside of Spokane last summer.

07:13So I think we, I think we're all in, but I, I think you and I will probably have to continue this dialogue about what,

07:19what's best to do to approach this issue.

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