Maria Cantwell Confronts Deputy Trade Rep Nominee On Trump's Tariff Policies

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During a Senate Finance Committee hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) spoke about President Trump's tariff policies.

Transcript

00:00It's your turn if you want to.

00:02If I'm allowed.

00:03You are allowed, Senator Cantwell.

00:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:08I wanted to ask our ambassador to the Geneva.

00:17Thank you, Mr. Barloon.

00:21Congratulations on your nomination.

00:23Do you believe in rules-based trade, Mr. Barloon?

00:28Thank you for that question, Senator.

00:31Yes, I believe that it's important to have rules of the road for trading partners

00:37and to ensure that those rules are followed.

00:40Do you think the White House has been following a rules-based trade regime?

00:46Thank you, Senator.

00:47I believe that the White House has taken actions that are appropriate

00:51to deal with the situation that we have and that, yes, I believe those actions have been appropriate.

00:57I don't think they've been following a rules-based system.

01:00I think they've been throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

01:04And I think one of the reasons the Wall Street Journal has been such a Johnny One Note on this

01:08is because we're losing shelf space.

01:12And so acting imperialistic and saying I'm going to throw a bunch of things out there just because I want to on tariffs,

01:19and then basically having the courts reverse them and then now being challenged is not rules-based trade.

01:26Rules-based trade would be knowing what the law actually says and using it appropriately and then actually having an effect.

01:34Now, me personally, coming from a very trade-based economy, and when I just ran out, I just came and ran into more constituents

01:40who were like, you're making the financing of everything more expensive, especially medical equipment.

01:46And I was like, well, we just had a hearing on this, and that's exactly what we heard, that we're making everything more expensive.

01:51So, me personally, I think we should be building alliances.

01:55But I'm trying to understand because this is not a rules-based approach.

02:00This is not what the administration is pursuing.

02:03It's pursuing chaos.

02:05And it's pursuing almost an imperialistic, I am all-powerful, I can do whatever I want, I can be unbounded.

02:12Well, two courts just said you cannot be unbounded and you are not following IEPA.

02:17Okay, so now the administration is saying, okay, well, I'm just going to find other things and be generally as broad, too.

02:24And the problem with that is you're going to continue to hurt a lot of small businesses on this path.

02:28And so, I'm just trying to understand.

02:30Do you think the president and you, do you or the president support the WTO?

02:34Or do you think that we should get out?

02:37Thank you for that question, Senator.

02:40I believe that there are significant problems with the WTO.

02:45I think that it has gone astray.

02:47I think that we've seen that, for example, with the large civil aircraft cases,

02:52where for years there are subsidies that harmed our companies that weren't effectively dealt with.

02:58At the same time, I do believe...

03:00So, does that mean in that case, would you, do you think a faster process?

03:02I don't mean to interrupt, but I want to know your thought.

03:04How would you fix that example you just gave?

03:07Well, I think that's, thank you for that question.

03:09I think that's a very good question because, frankly, you had decades of litigation there.

03:14And at the end, although while I was general counsel, we received the largest award in the history of the WTO,

03:21in many ways it was too little, too late.

03:24I think that you need to look at all the tools in the toolbox that can include dispute settlement at the WTO,

03:31but there may be other options that you need to look at as well.

03:35Certainly, if I'm confirmed to be the ambassador to the World Trade Organization,

03:41I will work with all of the members there to try to ensure that they do follow the rules

03:45and to advance the interests of the United States.

03:48So, you believe in a rules-based situation, even though the president isn't really following those rules,

03:54and you think that we could promote some changes to WTO for faster results in resolving conflicts?

04:04I do believe that there are potential reforms at the WTO.

04:10I'd be happy to talk with you and your office about what that might look like.

04:14I believe that there have been significant weaknesses and problems with dispute settlement in the past,

04:21but that we should engage in good faith with other members to try to see if we can improve the system.

04:29Well, what I don't like about this imperialistic approach, practically, is that you're not arguing about the rules.

04:35And I think in a more integrated global economy and certainly a more connected information economy,

04:42you can argue for rules.

04:45In fact, I think right now, for example, if we and Japan and Israel and, you know, a couple of other countries, India,

04:54got together and said, we believe these are the rules of the road for buying technology from countries that are democracies

05:01and follow the rule of law, and anybody who buys from other countries that have government back doors,

05:08well, that's a foolish thing.

05:10So you could.

05:11There are things like the Cape Town Accord that also say if you buy, you know, airplanes from people who meet these standards,

05:18you get a discount.

05:19So we're not using our clout, is my point.

05:22I'd rather use our clout on the rules and build alliances around those rules and implement them at the WTO

05:31and get the upper hand in what we already have a natural advantage in.

05:37But right now, we are throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

05:42The courts are turning it down.

05:43In the meantime, businesses are getting hurt, all that problematic, but the real issue is we're losing shelf space.

05:49And when you lose shelf space, then when our growers come back to try to get their product on,

05:54just as we heard from the soybean people, they can't get back on.

05:57So they never, ever recovered market share.

06:00So I just hope your advocacy and would love to talk further with you about this.

06:06I do not think it should take 10 or 15 years to get a WTO decision on unfair airbus subsidization and payment of that resolved.

06:21I don't really think it should take 10 or 12 or whatever, how many years it took.

06:26But I think leaning into that, which is going to be your day job, and being proud that the United States has these economic rules,

06:37I think that's a better way to go.

06:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

06:39Thank you, Senator Warren.

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