During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM) asked Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz about his agency's budget.
00:00Senator Heinrich. Chief, you've talked recently about how your budget is
00:04constrained because you need to pay out accrued vacation time for the 5,000
00:10Forest Service employees who opted into the Deferred Resignation Program.
00:15Basically 5,000 people that were paying not to do work in our force. Which
00:21programs are being affected this year because of the need to pay out that
00:25leave. Senator Heinrich, we're using primarily IRA and IIJ funds to pay those
00:32out. Those are the funds that are being used for that. So it had no impact on the
00:39decision to zero out the state and volunteer fire assistance program? Sir, no
00:45those funds were not used directly. They were not directly earmarked for SFA and
00:50VFA funding. You told the Senate Appropriations Committee a few weeks ago
00:54that the Forest Service would be quickly releasing the FY25 funds for these
00:59programs for state and state and volunteer fire assistance. But now we're hearing
01:05that states have been told to prepare to receive zero funding this year. Is that
01:09correct? Sir, you're correct in what my testimony was and what we're telling states
01:13right now is we don't have an answer just yet. But we're not telling them they're
01:16not going to get it. We're saying we're still in discussion on that. So we're not
01:20saying they're not going to get it, but we're still in discussion. Well what I would
01:23say is that states need that funding. That is a example of a successful
01:32partnership. If we don't have that funding that's not shared responsibility, that's
01:36abdicating our federal responsibility. And not every state has even an agency in
01:43place to sort of replace that capacity at the state level. At a time when their
01:48budgets are also being decimated by Medicaid cuts thanks to the big whatever bill. So I
01:57would think very seriously about our responsibility to continue to maintain
02:02positive relationships with those states and meet our federal responsibility. You have
02:09any thoughts? Sir, what I can tell you is your sentiments have been reflected by the
02:13state foresters and we're in close communication with them and we're aware of
02:16their concerns and we're taking those into consideration as we work through this
02:19issue. Yes, sir. Last year the Forest Service predicted it would accomplish about
02:24four million acres of hazardous fuels reduction in 2025. You're three quarters of
02:31the way through the fiscal year. What's your number right now? Sir, I don't have that
02:38number with, but I'll get it to you. I think I have the number and you can tell me if I'm wrong. It's a, it's about 1.7 million acres. So,
02:44not even 50% of the way towards our goal, despite the fact that we're almost through
02:52the fiscal year. So, I, you know, one of the things we agree on in this committee is we'd like to see
03:02more fuels reduction as a way to deal with our fire risk. And yet we are abysmally behind our goals.
03:12We have 5,000 fewer people working for the Forest Service now. And there are many of us on this
03:18committee that are worried that the current budget is a recipe for more trees burned and fewer trees
03:27cut. What would you say to my constituents who are worried that this budget blueprint is going to,
03:33is going to result in fewer hazardous fuels being treated?
03:37Senator Heinrich, what I would say is that overall, we're still going to maintain our fuels program,
03:44as we have done it. This budget, what it does though, is it transfers the fuels program
03:47to Department of Interior. So, that work would be done in the future by Department of Interior. That's
03:52part of what happens in this budget. That fuels program goes there. So, we would be working with
03:56Department of Interior to accomplish those objectives on Forest Service grounds. So, the intent,
04:01we still have the same amount of funding. The funding doesn't shift for fuels. It just shifts
04:05from Forest Service to Department of Interior. So, the intent would still be to accomplish those
04:10goals. So, as the, the firefighting efforts are shifted to interior, would the hazardous fuels
04:17treatments go with them? Senator Heinrich, yes sir. So, the, the funding for that program,
04:24the $170 million, does transfer to interior. So, the large bulk of that would transfer with that
04:28program. Yes, sir. When are we going to get a detailed blueprint of what this new firefighting
04:35approach is going to look like? So, Senator, we have been requested through the executive order
04:43within the next 90 days to develop a plan that would identify the structure of this. So, that's
04:48something that we've just started discussions internally and with Department of Interior. So, we,
04:53we will meet the timelines that are established in the executive order. So, as we work through that,
04:57in 90 days, we'll have a plan of what this would look like.
05:01Irrespective of how long it takes to put that plan together, I think there are many of us who
05:08are more concerned about the adequacy of that plan and would like to see that plan before we start making
05:16budgetary decisions about whether it's a good idea or not. I am very open to different ways of
05:24organizing how we fight fires on our, our national forests and our public lands. But, I want to see the plan,
05:30because people's lives and livelihoods are at stake. We have to get that right. And, and irrespective of whether
05:39the White House wants it in two weeks or 90 days, I know that members of this committee are going to want to see the details,
05:46and know that this has actually been thought through, unlike some of the, you know, early decisions about letting people go who are critical to the management of our public lands.
05:58So, you've been involved? Youxting.
06:00Thank you very much.
06:16Wexting.
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