'Abdicating Our Federal Responsibility': Martin Heinrich Rips Forest Service Chief Over Funding Cuts

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During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM) asked Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz about his agency's budget.

Transcript

00:00Senator Heinrich. Chief, you've talked recently about how your budget is

00:04constrained because you need to pay out accrued vacation time for the 5,000

00:10Forest Service employees who opted into the deferred resignation program.

00:15Basically 5,000 people that were paying not to do work in our force. Which

00:21programs are being affected this year because of the need to pay out that

00:25leave. Senator Heinrich, we're using primarily IRA and IIJ funds to pay those

00:32out. Those are the funds that are being used for that. So it had no impact on the

00:39decision to zero out the state and volunteer fire assistance program? Sir, no

00:45those funds were not used directly. They were not directly earmarked for SFA and

00:50VFA funding. You told the Senate Appropriations Committee a few weeks ago

00:54that the Forest Service would be quickly releasing the FY25 funds for these

00:59programs for state and state and volunteer fire assistance. But now we're hearing

01:05that states have been told to prepare to receive zero funding this year. Is that

01:09correct? Sir, you're correct in what my testimony was and what we're telling states

01:13right now is we don't have an answer just yet. But we're not telling them they're

01:16not going to get it. We're saying we're still in discussion on that. So we're not

01:20saying they're not going to get it, but we're still in discussion. Well what I would

01:23say is that states need that funding. That is a example of a successful

01:31partnership. If we don't have that funding that's not shared responsibility, that's

01:36abdicating our federal responsibility. And not every state has even an agency in

01:43place to sort of replace that capacity at the state level. At a time when their

01:48budgets are also being decimated by Medicaid cuts thanks to the big whatever

01:55bill. So I would think very seriously about our responsibility to continue to

02:01maintain positive relationships with those states and meet our federal

02:06responsibility. You have any thoughts? Sir, what I can tell you is your sentiments have been

02:12reflected by the state foresters and we're in close communication with them and

02:15we're aware of their concerns and we're taking those into consideration as we work

02:19through this issue. Yes sir. Last year the Forest Service predicted it would

02:23accomplish about four million acres of hazardous fuels reduction in 2025. You're

02:30three-quarters of the way through the fiscal year. What's your number right now? Sir I

02:37don't have that number with but I'll get it to you. I think I have the number and you can tell me if I'm wrong.

02:42It's about 1.7 million acres. So not even 50% of the way towards our goal despite the fact that we're

02:51almost through the the fiscal year. So I you know one of the things we agree on in this committee

03:00is we'd like to see more fuels reduction as a way to deal with our our fire risk and yet we are abysmally

03:10behind our goals. We have 5,000 fewer people working for the Forest Service now and there are many of us

03:18on this committee that are worried that the current budget is a recipe for more trees burned and fewer

03:27trees cut. What would you say to my constituents who are worried that this budget blueprint is going

03:33to result in fewer hazardous fuels being treated? Senator Heinrich what I would say is that overall

03:42we're still going to maintain our fuels program as we have done it. This budget what it does though

03:46is it transfers fuels program to Department of Interior. So that work would be done in the future

03:51by Department of Interior. That's part of what happens in this budget. That fuels program goes there.

03:55So we would be working with Department of Interior to accomplish those objectives on Forest Service

04:00ground. So the intent we still have the same amount of funding. The funding doesn't shift for fuels it

04:05just shifts from Forest Service to Department of Interior. So the intent would still be to accomplish

04:10those goals. So as the the firefighting efforts are shifted to Interior would the hazardous fuels

04:17treatments go with them? Senator Heinrich yes sir. So the the funding for that program the 170 million

04:24dollars does transfer to Interior so the large bulk of that would transfer with that program. Yes sir.

04:28Senator Heinrich when are we going to get a detailed blueprint of what this new firefighting

04:36approach is going to look like? Senator Heinrich so senator we have been requested through the

04:42executive order within the next 90 days to develop a plan that would identify the structure of this. So

04:48that's something that we've just started discussions internally and with Department of Interior. So we

04:53we will meet the timelines that are established in the executive order. So as we work through that in 90

04:58days we'll have a plan of what this would look like. Irrespective of how long it takes to put that

05:04plan together I think there are many of us who are more concerned about the adequacy of that plan and would

05:13like to see that plan before we start making budgetary decisions about whether it's a good idea or not. I am very open to

05:23different ways of organizing how we fight fires on our our national forests and our public lands.

05:29But I want to see the plan because people's lives and livelihoods are at stake. We have to get that

05:36right and and irrespective of whether the White House wants it in two weeks or 90 days I know that members

05:43of this committee are going to want to see the details and know that this has actually been thought through

05:49unlike some of the you know early decisions about letting people go who are critical to the management

05:57of our public lands.

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