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'Why Don't You Answer My Question?': Dan Sullivan & Secretary John Phelan Get Into Spat Over Navy Ships
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yesterday
During a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing last month, Sen. Dan Sullivan (R-AK) asked Navy Secretary John Phelan about the Navy's shipbuilding targets and budget.
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00:00
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:02
Mr. Secretary, you don't have a lot of experience working with this committee,
00:05
so I'd like to start with some basics. What does Article 1, Section 8,
00:10
Clause 13 of the Constitution say?
00:15
I don't know. Why don't you tell me, Senator?
00:17
It grants the Congress the power to, quote, provide and maintain a Navy.
00:22
And Clause 12 grants Congress the power to raise an army.
00:27
Do you know why the Founding Fathers had a difference between our constitutional responsibilities?
00:34
It's a big difference. Raise an army, provide and maintain a Navy. Do you know why?
00:39
I think I do, Senator, but why don't you give me the history lesson you seem to want to do today.
00:45
Why don't you answer my question, Mr. Secretary?
00:50
Do you want to answer the question?
00:53
I don't.
00:53
It gives the Congress a longer-term view of building ships, developing infrastructure,
01:06
supporting a much more permanent naval force than with the Army.
01:11
Do you know which section of the Constitution mentions the Secretary of the Navy?
01:15
I do not, Senator. Why don't you go ahead?
01:21
Not mentioned in this. It's not mentioned in the Constitution.
01:24
Let me provide a hypothetical.
01:26
Congress passes a law, had many hearings on it.
01:30
The President signs it.
01:32
Your experts come to you and say it's not one of your top priorities.
01:37
What is your obligation to the law, Constitution, this body with regard to the law?
01:41
I'm not sure what this is accomplishing, Senator, but at the end of the day, I follow the laws as they're given to me.
02:08
Let me provide a real-world example in that regard.
02:13
How about we talk about our call yesterday?
02:16
We had hearings.
02:17
We had hearings.
02:18
We had hearings to get to 31 amphibs in the law.
02:25
Navy didn't like it.
02:26
SECNAV didn't like it.
02:27
The Marines did like it.
02:29
We passed that, requiring 31 amphibs.
02:33
The law actually says the naval combat forces of the Navy shall include not less than 11 operational aircraft carriers,
02:41
not less than 31 operational amphibious war ships, of which not less than 10 shall be amphibious assault ships.
02:50
Secretary of the Navy came here two years ago, and his shipbuilding plan, he didn't hit 31 amphibs at all.
02:57
How do you think this committee responded to that?
03:02
I'm sure they didn't like it.
03:04
We didn't like it.
03:04
Secretary, Senator Cain and I put forward legislation that actually said the next year in the NDAA, very bipartisan,
03:12
if the Navy doesn't hit its 30-year shipbuilding plan that maintains 31 amphibs,
03:18
that we would sequester half of the Navy's budget.
03:22
So do we, do you think, and this is for all the gentlemen at the table,
03:27
are we hitting 31 amphibs right now?
03:30
Admiral, under the law?
03:33
I believe we are.
03:34
So my understanding is three of the 31, 32, are not mission capable, 14 are out of reporting and in shipyards.
03:44
So is that, are we hitting 31 amphibs with those amphibs out of commission, essentially?
03:54
By the letter of the law, we are in intent, we're not.
03:58
Are those operational amphibious warships?
04:02
That's the letter of the law.
04:03
When they come out of maintenance, they will be.
04:06
But 14 are in maintenance.
04:08
So you, you think we're hitting that law right now?
04:13
Yes, sir.
04:14
General, do you think we're hitting that law?
04:16
The, let me give you one, one of the ships on that list is the USS Tortuga.
04:22
That's been in, it hasn't deployed since 2013.
04:26
The Navy's counting that as meeting the law.
04:29
Do you think that meets the, you were very involved in that 31 amphib.
04:33
Law, do you think that that meets the letter of the law?
04:37
Senator, I can't speak to what, what meets the letter and intent of the law.
04:41
I only can speak to the requirement of a 3.0 amphibious ready group presence.
04:46
One in Army off the east coast, one off the west coast, and a 31st.
04:49
Are we close to that right now?
04:51
Sir, we're not.
04:52
Okay.
04:54
What are the combatant commanders saying they want?
04:56
3.0 or higher?
04:57
The combatant commanders are asking for 5.5.
05:00
And I would note that that is unobtainium.
05:02
And we're not even at 3.0 and that's a requirement you think we need?
05:08
I believe as the amphibious requirements officer, 3.0 is the requirement.
05:11
Yes, sir.
05:12
Mr. Secretary, when we, when you went through your confirmation hearing, I highlighted a GAO report,
05:18
had four recommendations, talked about the amphibious fleet readiness, which was in a state of disaster.
05:26
Senator, have you, are you familiar with these four recommendations?
05:33
Have you implemented any of them?
05:36
And maybe you can get back to this committee with each of those recommendations and what you're doing to implement them from the GAO
05:43
on getting our amphib fleet back in readiness.
05:48
Take that for the record and come back to you, Senator.
05:50
Thank you, Senator, here.
05:51
Finally, General, what happens if we don't have 3.0 mu toe-to-toe capability?
06:00
Senator, it increases risk for the combatant commander.
06:02
That means there's not a Marine Expeditionary Unit off the coast of Africa.
06:06
Should an embassy need to be evacuated or should Houthis need to be struck?
06:09
It means there's not a Marine Expeditionary Unit prepared to go in the teeth of the PRC
06:15
or prepared to operate in the South Com AOR.
06:17
And are the Marines ready to be 3.0?
06:19
We are, sir.
06:20
We have the capacity and the capability.
06:22
But the Navy isn't?
06:24
The amphib readiness rate is currently, doesn't meet the 3.0 requirement.
06:29
Admiral, do you know when we're going to get to that?
06:32
I can tell you what we're at, 41%, and I want to get to 80%.
06:36
I don't have an exact date when we're going to get there, but it has my full attention.
06:42
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Recommended
5:27
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