- today
When four University of Idaho coeds are brutally stabbed to death, brilliant criminology student Bryan Kohberger is accused of their murders.
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FunTranscript
00:00:00I don't know the location of your emergency.
00:00:11Hi, something is happening.
00:00:12Something's happening in our house.
00:00:14We don't know what.
00:00:15What is the address of the emergency?
00:00:191-1-2-2.
00:00:21Okay, road.
00:00:30Hello, is she breathing?
00:00:34No.
00:00:38The community of Moscow was frightened for weeks after college roommates Kaylee Gonsalves,
00:00:44Madison Mogan, Zanna Karnodal, and her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin,
00:00:48were brutally stabbed to death in their home off campus.
00:00:52I just remember, like, I fell to the ground and, like, let out a scream by my parents.
00:00:55Like, what? Like, what's happening?
00:00:57I mean, when I told them, I mean, they're like, no.
00:01:02That's the last thing you ever think is going to happen to your friends.
00:01:05I was so angry, and I would ask, you know, why did this happen to them?
00:01:10We miss them more than we could ever say.
00:01:15The world is a darker place without them,
00:01:19but the light of their love and memories will always guide us all.
00:01:27Last night, detectives arrested Brian Christopher Koberger.
00:01:34Did Brian Koberger, the criminology student, set off to commit the perfect crime?
00:01:41Is Brian Koberger a serial killer?
00:01:43Or someone angry at women?
00:01:45Why don't you want to appear on camera?
00:01:49I'm afraid of Brian Koberger.
00:01:51You have his DNA that was left behind.
00:01:55He's either guilty of murder or the unluckiest man in America.
00:02:00But there's not one piece of evidence that places Brian Koberger definitively at King Road at the time of the murders.
00:02:08Could somebody else be responsible for these murders?
00:02:11Nothing will ever be the same.
00:02:19Kaylee will never be back.
00:02:21Maddie, Zanna, Ethan, he'll never be back here.
00:02:25Once trial is here, you need to know for certain that they have the right guy, right?
00:02:32You want us to be the right guy.
00:02:34You want us to be the right guy.
00:03:04Welcome to the Light Up the Night Parade.
00:03:23It's the time of the year when the days get short and it gets darker and darker.
00:03:28So here in Moscow, we'd like to light it up a little bit.
00:03:32Three, two, one.
00:03:36Christmas that year was just hard.
00:03:47I mean, obviously, something terrible had happened.
00:03:52We were all just in shock.
00:03:55There was just a lot of feeling of emptiness.
00:03:59Like something was missing.
00:04:08Assign seats.
00:04:10Miss teaching.
00:04:16Friends interview.
00:04:17Take one common mark.
00:04:18This is the first time that we've done this.
00:04:28And we just hope that people can get a better idea of who Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna, and Ethan were as people.
00:04:37And the lives that they had and honoring them in the best way that we can and talking about the memories we had.
00:04:42King Road, the house, it was big.
00:04:48I remember Maddie, I would say, it's like a Barbie dream house.
00:04:52I remember her saying that.
00:04:53Yeah.
00:04:54She got Kaylee and Zanna and her other best friends to move in there, all living together.
00:05:00Ethan didn't live in that house, but he was there the whole time.
00:05:05He was just hanging out with all of us girls.
00:05:07It worked out.
00:05:09Yeah.
00:05:09We all loved that house.
00:05:11It was the best house.
00:05:12We had the best times together.
00:05:13We had a few slow weeks.
00:05:15We were always dancing and just, you know, playing games and stuff.
00:05:20Maddie, Kaylee, and Ethan, and Zanna, there was no one that didn't like them.
00:05:25They were truly the nicest people that I could think of.
00:05:29I think when it first happened, I'm sorry, I'm not going to cry, we got texts from people that they were just confused that they saw police cars outside the house.
00:05:50We'd gotten a vandal alert and it had said homicide on King Road.
00:05:54I just swiped away.
00:05:56I was like, I didn't think anything of it.
00:05:58We got another alert and then our friends, basically, Maddie's boyfriend, had told me.
00:06:10Yeah.
00:06:11It's okay.
00:06:16It confirmed how many at that point because we had been hearing rumors all day.
00:06:21Yeah.
00:06:22You know, that's the last thing you ever think is going to happen to you.
00:06:25Yeah.
00:06:26Yeah.
00:06:28On the morning of November 13th, outside the University of Idaho, everything was totally quiet.
00:06:43All the hectic activity of a Saturday night is over.
00:06:49The streets are sort of empty.
00:06:51The students were still sleeping in.
00:06:53There was a 911 call placed from 1122 King Road, and it was placed regarding an unconscious person.
00:07:05What is the address of the emergency?
00:07:12What is the address of the emergency?
00:07:171122.
00:07:21Um, one of our, one of the roommates has passed out.
00:07:25No.
00:07:26She's not going wrong.
00:07:29She's not waking up.
00:07:31Yes.
00:07:33Hello?
00:07:34Is she breathing?
00:07:36No.
00:07:37Okay.
00:07:42When police walk into the house, nothing looks out of the ordinary.
00:07:48Then the officers walk up to the second floor.
00:07:55They make their way to a bedroom,
00:07:58and they find Zanna Karnodal and Ethan Chapin covered in blood.
00:08:06The police then go up to the third floor,
00:08:10and they find an empty bedroom and a dog inside.
00:08:15Then across the hallway, in another bedroom,
00:08:20the officers find Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves.
00:08:25It appears that these girls have been brutally stabbed to death.
00:08:33There was no forced entry.
00:08:35There was nothing reported missing.
00:08:37There was no murder weapon.
00:08:40One thing that was really surprising
00:08:42is that they didn't find any signs
00:08:44that any of the women had been sexually assaulted.
00:08:48There was so much blood in this house
00:08:50that it leaked out of the foundation of the house
00:08:53and ran in rivulets on the side of the house.
00:08:58After the murders happened,
00:09:00we didn't leave each other's side.
00:09:02We spent the night together.
00:09:03We didn't want to be alone.
00:09:05I think we were just questioning everything.
00:09:08We were just trying to figure out who did this.
00:09:10Yeah, who could possibly do something so here?
00:09:13Yeah.
00:09:13So it was hard because no one had answers.
00:09:17I was so angry, and I would ask, you know,
00:09:19why did this happen to them?
00:09:21Why would someone do something like this?
00:09:24How did this happen?
00:09:25Moscow, Idaho, is a very pretty place.
00:09:45It has between 25,000 and 30,000 people,
00:09:50and it's located in the northwest corner of the state,
00:09:54very close to Washington state.
00:10:03Moscow is the definition of a college town.
00:10:06A lot of people go out to the bars.
00:10:08A lot of students, they all know each other,
00:10:10and that really adds to the tight-knit community.
00:10:12After the murders happened,
00:10:19no one knew what was happening.
00:10:21It was so confusing and unknown,
00:10:24and everyone was scared.
00:10:26We were still just in shock.
00:10:29I mean, I could only imagine
00:10:30how their families were feeling.
00:10:32And Maddie was an only child,
00:10:34so, like, Maddie was their absolute pride and joy.
00:10:38Watching her grow and mature
00:10:42and to the amazing woman she'd become
00:10:44is truly priceless in our hearts.
00:10:48She was the world to us.
00:10:50Maddie was just, like,
00:10:52one of the most real people that I've ever met.
00:10:54So kind, so generous.
00:10:57She was 21.
00:10:59She had one class left in the spring.
00:11:01She was nearly done.
00:11:03And she was very smart.
00:11:05I think she had 4.0s.
00:11:06Maddie was always very responsible.
00:11:09I mean, she would give me advice.
00:11:12Maddie's boyfriend definitely chased Maddie.
00:11:15And she liked it that way.
00:11:17Yeah, she loved it.
00:11:18And he eventually got her, so...
00:11:20Yeah.
00:11:20They loved each other so much,
00:11:22and you could tell they both just...
00:11:24They were meant to be.
00:11:25Yeah.
00:11:26Maddie was my best friend.
00:11:30She was the first person I talked to every morning
00:11:33and the last person I talked to before bed.
00:11:37One of my favorite memories is when she turned 21.
00:11:39She was just so excited.
00:11:41She was so happy.
00:11:42She had her sparkly sequined dress on.
00:11:44She made everyone wear pink.
00:11:45Yeah.
00:11:46Yeah.
00:11:47Maddie turned 21, and then Kaylee.
00:11:49Their birthdays weren't far apart.
00:11:50Kaylee is a huge part of our family.
00:11:57The dynamics of the family will never be the same.
00:12:01Kaylee was definitely fiery.
00:12:04She was sassy.
00:12:05My favorite memory, we went boating all day.
00:12:10It was just like the perfect evening,
00:12:12and the sun was setting.
00:12:13We were just on the boat.
00:12:13We were having drinks, listening to music.
00:12:16And I just remember Kaylee looked at me.
00:12:18She's like, life couldn't be any better, could it?
00:12:21She was just a very glass-half-full person.
00:12:31New details on the brutal murders
00:12:33of the four University of Idaho students
00:12:34found stabbed to death this weekend.
00:12:37Police believe two more roommates were home
00:12:38at the time of the killing.
00:12:40Investigators say the two surviving roommates
00:12:42have been very cooperative with police.
00:12:45There were two roommates who survived.
00:12:48Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk.
00:12:52Dylan Mortensen, her bedroom, is on the second floor,
00:12:55and it's on the same floor as Zanna Kurnodal's bedroom.
00:13:02On the night of the killings,
00:13:06Dylan Mortensen is awakened from her sleep.
00:13:10She hears noises upstairs.
00:13:12The theory is that the individual
00:13:16that entered this house
00:13:18went through the sliding glass doors
00:13:20adjacent to the kitchen.
00:13:22Those doors were regularly left unlocked.
00:13:26He walks up the narrow staircase
00:13:29to the third floor,
00:13:31and he goes into Maddie's bedroom.
00:13:34Dylan was able to hear Kaylee's dog.
00:13:42Dylan also hears a voice say,
00:13:44there's somebody here.
00:13:47But she doesn't see anything.
00:13:50This individual proceeds to Ethan and Zanna
00:13:58on the second floor.
00:14:01In her bedroom,
00:14:03Zanna was on TikTok.
00:14:07She was awake.
00:14:10Dylan says she hears crying
00:14:12coming from Zanna's bedroom.
00:14:14And a male voice say,
00:14:17it's okay, I'm here to help you.
00:14:20Here we have a killer
00:14:22who is massaging the moment
00:14:25to try to gain the trust of their victim
00:14:28even seconds before he's going to commit murder.
00:14:34Dylan opens her door for a third time
00:14:37and sees a man walking
00:14:40from the direction of Zanna's bedroom,
00:14:43walking past her door.
00:14:45He was dressed in black,
00:14:47with a black mask,
00:14:48about 5'10 to 6' feet,
00:14:51athletic build,
00:14:52and he had, she said,
00:14:54bushy eyebrows.
00:14:56And she's locked in this frozen state of fear.
00:15:01She just stands there,
00:15:03and then she retreats back to her bedroom.
00:15:07The killer then continues on
00:15:11through the sliding door
00:15:13that led to the back porch.
00:15:15The million-dollar question,
00:15:16I think for many,
00:15:17is why did Dylan Mortensen survive?
00:15:21If she had spoken,
00:15:23I think she would have been another victim.
00:15:26Bethany Funk,
00:15:28the other surviving roommate,
00:15:30was on the first floor,
00:15:31and what she did
00:15:33or did not see or hear,
00:15:36we don't know.
00:15:37The court's issued
00:15:38a pretty broad gag order,
00:15:40so there's going to be
00:15:41a lot of information
00:15:42that remains to be seen
00:15:43until the time of trial.
00:15:45What we do know now
00:15:47is that Dylan and Bethany
00:15:50were frantically texting each other
00:15:52and trying to reach the victims.
00:15:54The next morning,
00:16:18there's still no answer.
00:16:20Some time after that,
00:16:26one of the young women
00:16:27called one of the fraternity brothers nearby,
00:16:31and then around 11.58
00:16:33is when the 911 call was placed.
00:16:38Knowing that Zanna was on TikTok
00:16:40at 4.12 a.m.,
00:16:42the police determined
00:16:43that the murders occurred
00:16:46sometime between 4 a.m.
00:16:47and 4.25 a.m.
00:16:50Hi, my name is Zanna Cronodal.
00:16:53I'm a marketing major
00:16:54here at the University of Idaho.
00:16:56This is actually King Street,
00:16:58where I've lived the past two years,
00:17:00and I really like just
00:17:02hanging out with my friends
00:17:04all the time
00:17:04and being super involved
00:17:06in school events
00:17:09and everything else.
00:17:10Zanna had a very free spirit.
00:17:16Yeah.
00:17:17Goofy, funny, silly.
00:17:19She did whatever she wanted
00:17:21and she didn't care
00:17:21what people thought about her.
00:17:23She changed not only our lives,
00:17:26but everybody else's
00:17:27because she made everyone
00:17:28feel like they were welcome.
00:17:30Zanna, you will not be forgotten.
00:17:32You have impacted so many lives
00:17:34and have given people so much love.
00:17:36I hope I can make you proud
00:17:37and try to leave an impact
00:17:38on this world
00:17:39and on people like you did.
00:17:42Zanna is kind of a wild child,
00:17:44and Ethan was more
00:17:45of a calm presence,
00:17:46so they evened each other out.
00:17:48They were very, like,
00:17:49yin and yang.
00:17:50She loved him so much.
00:17:51Yeah, she did.
00:17:52Yeah.
00:17:53Yeah.
00:17:53I'm Ethan's mom.
00:17:57I'm here tonight.
00:17:58His brother Hunter
00:17:59and his sister Maisie.
00:18:02I think you knew
00:18:02he was a triplet.
00:18:03We are eternally grateful
00:18:06that we spent
00:18:07so much time with him
00:18:09because time is precious
00:18:11and it's something
00:18:12you can't get back.
00:18:14Anybody that talks about him
00:18:17would say that Ethan
00:18:18was just the nicest guy.
00:18:20He was very fun-loving
00:18:22and he liked to have a good time.
00:18:25He was definitely involved
00:18:26in Sigma Chi sports
00:18:29and activities.
00:18:30Oh, my God.
00:18:30That's rough.
00:18:31Zanna, Ethan,
00:18:34Maddie, and Kaylee
00:18:34were just starting their lives,
00:18:37just about to be out of college,
00:18:39starting careers.
00:18:40They all had a lot
00:18:41to look forward to.
00:18:42Yeah.
00:18:48In Moscow,
00:18:49there hadn't been a murder
00:18:51for seven years.
00:18:53This was a very safe,
00:18:55small, sleepy little town.
00:18:57People who are able
00:19:01to massacre
00:19:02for people
00:19:04have no empathy,
00:19:07period.
00:19:09And that is
00:19:11one of the traits
00:19:11that you look for
00:19:13in a serial killer.
00:19:16A killer
00:19:17that could commit
00:19:19these four crimes,
00:19:20could commit crimes
00:19:21in the future,
00:19:22could be a serial killer.
00:19:25based on details of the scene,
00:19:45we believe this was
00:19:46an isolated,
00:19:47targeted attack
00:19:48on our victims.
00:19:50We do not have
00:19:50a suspect at this time,
00:19:52and that individual
00:19:53is still out there.
00:19:55We cannot say
00:19:56that there's no threat
00:19:57to the community.
00:19:58Be aware of your surroundings
00:19:59at all times.
00:20:02When the murders
00:20:02first occurred,
00:20:04no one knew
00:20:05what was happening.
00:20:06And since nothing
00:20:07made sense,
00:20:08everything seemed possible.
00:20:10That there was
00:20:11a madman on the loose.
00:20:12Would he go into the town?
00:20:14Was he just aiming
00:20:15at the students?
00:20:1622, 31, 22...
00:20:16Investigators
00:20:18were trying to look
00:20:19for a rhyme or reason.
00:20:20Why were these
00:20:21four young people killed?
00:20:23Were they targeted?
00:20:26The one piece
00:20:27of concrete evidence
00:20:28the police had
00:20:29early on in the case
00:20:30was a knife sheath.
00:20:33There was a knife sheath
00:20:35found alongside
00:20:37Matty Mogan's body
00:20:38in the bed.
00:20:40The knife sheath
00:20:41was for a K-bar knife.
00:20:44This isn't a little pocket knife,
00:20:46a little kitchen knife
00:20:47or a steak knife.
00:20:48This is actually
00:20:49a K-bar knife.
00:20:51This knife,
00:20:52the murder weapon,
00:20:53was never found.
00:20:55It's emblazoned
00:20:56with the term K-bar,
00:20:57which actually originates
00:20:58from the term
00:20:59killed a bear.
00:21:01USMC is emblazoned
00:21:02right here.
00:21:03This is
00:21:04United States Marine Corps.
00:21:06This is a combat knife.
00:21:08So,
00:21:08when this thing
00:21:09is unsheathed,
00:21:11you can get an idea
00:21:15the size of this thing.
00:21:16The edge was so sharp
00:21:18I could have sliced
00:21:19my finger off,
00:21:20just taken out of a box.
00:21:21I could have shaved with it.
00:21:23That's how sharp it is.
00:21:25And investigators
00:21:26sent out the sheath
00:21:27to the Idaho State
00:21:29Crime Lab
00:21:30to look for DNA deposition
00:21:32or fingerprints.
00:21:33It's been reported
00:21:40that the killer
00:21:41went to
00:21:42Madison Mogan's
00:21:43room first.
00:21:45The knife sheath
00:21:46was found
00:21:46in her room,
00:21:47so logically,
00:21:48you may think
00:21:49that the killer
00:21:49unsheathed his knife
00:21:50and then started
00:21:51committing the crime.
00:21:55I think that
00:21:56this is a grand
00:21:56indication
00:21:57that
00:21:58one
00:21:59of the two
00:22:00young ladies
00:22:01in that room
00:22:02was in fact
00:22:03a target.
00:22:04According to
00:22:06Kaylee's father,
00:22:07her wounds
00:22:08were particularly
00:22:10vicious.
00:22:12She was cut
00:22:12more severely
00:22:14than Maddie Mogan.
00:22:15And if you look
00:22:16at that,
00:22:16you may say,
00:22:17was Kaylee targeted?
00:22:18Or was Maddie
00:22:25the target
00:22:26and he didn't
00:22:28expect Kaylee
00:22:29to be there?
00:22:31Kaylee
00:22:31hadn't even
00:22:31been living there.
00:22:33She had gone
00:22:33back for the weekend
00:22:34to show off
00:22:35her Range Rover
00:22:36and to hang out
00:22:37with her friends.
00:22:39Maddie
00:22:39kept her pink
00:22:41cowboy boots
00:22:41in the window
00:22:42of her room.
00:22:43That was a way
00:22:44of identifying
00:22:45which room
00:22:46was hers.
00:22:46Was he
00:22:49hanging out
00:22:50peeking
00:22:50into her windows?
00:22:53There are
00:22:53apartment houses
00:22:54nearby,
00:22:55so there are
00:22:56many students
00:22:57living in
00:22:58the neighborhood.
00:23:01It's very risky
00:23:02for someone
00:23:03to walk into
00:23:04an environment
00:23:04like this.
00:23:07They would have
00:23:08to know the layout
00:23:09and where
00:23:11they're going
00:23:11to attack.
00:23:14A killer
00:23:15may go in
00:23:16targeting one
00:23:16person.
00:23:17When they reach
00:23:19the location,
00:23:20they see
00:23:20other people.
00:23:23Then one
00:23:24victim becomes
00:23:24many.
00:23:26If it was
00:23:27just one of
00:23:27them,
00:23:28were the
00:23:28other's
00:23:29collateral
00:23:29damage?
00:23:35So right
00:23:35now,
00:23:36we are at
00:23:37the home
00:23:37where four
00:23:38students from
00:23:39the University
00:23:39of Idaho
00:23:40were brutally
00:23:42slain.
00:23:42this is a
00:23:44place that
00:23:45many people
00:23:46had good
00:23:47memories,
00:23:48fun times.
00:23:51I'm a
00:23:52journalist.
00:23:53I primarily
00:23:54work making
00:23:56true crime
00:23:56videos.
00:23:58When the
00:23:59murders occurred,
00:24:01I was just
00:24:01floored by the
00:24:03manner of how
00:24:03it happened.
00:24:04It was so
00:24:05shocking.
00:24:06After Kaylee
00:24:07was murdered,
00:24:09the
00:24:09Gonzalves family
00:24:10reached out to
00:24:10me because
00:24:11Kaylee was
00:24:12following me on
00:24:13TikTok.
00:24:14She had watched
00:24:15my videos and
00:24:16they felt that
00:24:17connection through
00:24:18her.
00:24:18I hate having
00:24:23her the
00:24:24day-to-deaf
00:24:25home there.
00:24:26They invited me
00:24:27to their home
00:24:28to do a
00:24:29documentary with
00:24:30them.
00:24:32Gosh,
00:24:33it would have
00:24:33been just an
00:24:34amazing citizen
00:24:35for our country.
00:24:36The person that
00:24:37would show
00:24:38everyone, like,
00:24:39you can come
00:24:40from anything
00:24:41and do anything
00:24:41and just work
00:24:42hard and be
00:24:44a success,
00:24:45and that's
00:24:46such a good
00:24:48positive
00:24:48message.
00:24:49We lost
00:24:51that, you
00:24:52know, and
00:24:52that's really
00:24:53hard for us.
00:24:55After meeting
00:24:56a few times,
00:24:58I developed
00:24:59a friendship
00:25:00with Kaylee's
00:25:00brother, Stephen.
00:25:14Do you want
00:25:14to skip a rock?
00:25:16You want
00:25:17to make it a
00:25:17competition?
00:25:18Yeah.
00:25:19Yeah,
00:25:19I think the
00:25:20last time I
00:25:21did this,
00:25:21I was, like,
00:25:23maybe 12
00:25:24years old.
00:25:24I've got to
00:25:25find a rock
00:25:25that's worthy.
00:25:28I found the
00:25:28perfect one.
00:25:30Yeah, you
00:25:30took the only
00:25:30perfect one.
00:25:36Let me see
00:25:36if I can do it
00:25:37with this
00:25:38hand.
00:25:39Ah, no.
00:25:39Whoa, we've got
00:25:40to work on that.
00:25:41I know a guy.
00:25:42Fail.
00:25:44Fail.
00:25:45This one's
00:25:46perfect.
00:25:46Here, you
00:25:47take this one.
00:25:48This one's
00:25:49perfect.
00:25:50Okay, I'll
00:25:50do it at the
00:25:50same time.
00:25:51Okay.
00:25:52All right, one,
00:25:53two, three.
00:25:56Both fail.
00:25:58Both fail.
00:25:59All right, maybe
00:26:00this isn't my
00:26:00profession.
00:26:02Leave it to the
00:26:03kids.
00:26:04How would you
00:26:04describe Kaylee?
00:26:06What was her
00:26:06personality like?
00:26:08It's kind of
00:26:08hard to just put
00:26:09one thing on a
00:26:10question like that.
00:26:13Kaylee, she was
00:26:14very social, but
00:26:16she was very
00:26:17driven.
00:26:19Kaylee was going
00:26:20to move to
00:26:20Texas.
00:26:21She was going
00:26:22to do something
00:26:22IT.
00:26:23It was definitely
00:26:24out of her
00:26:25wheelhouse, but
00:26:26she nailed the
00:26:27interview.
00:26:28If she wasn't
00:26:29good at something,
00:26:29she became good
00:26:30at it.
00:26:32Kaylee and
00:26:33Maddie, they
00:26:34grew up together
00:26:34in Coeur d'Alene.
00:26:36They went to
00:26:36the same school
00:26:37in sixth grade.
00:26:39Kaylee was
00:26:39definitely the
00:26:40one to kind
00:26:41of push the
00:26:41envelope, and
00:26:42Maddie was
00:26:42the one to
00:26:43reel it back
00:26:44in and keep
00:26:45them level.
00:26:47They were
00:26:47definitely planning
00:26:48on going to
00:26:49the same school
00:26:49to the
00:26:50University of
00:26:51Idaho.
00:26:52They were
00:26:53just best
00:26:54friends.
00:27:01I remember
00:27:02I was at
00:27:02my parents'
00:27:03house.
00:27:03We were
00:27:05watching the
00:27:06Raiders
00:27:06game, and
00:27:07my mom
00:27:08gets a
00:27:08call, and
00:27:09she's
00:27:09immediately
00:27:09frantic.
00:27:12It was
00:27:12my cousin,
00:27:14and she
00:27:14said something
00:27:15bad had
00:27:15happened to
00:27:17specifically
00:27:17Kaylee.
00:27:19I was
00:27:20calling the
00:27:21hospitals, and
00:27:22we didn't
00:27:23know anything
00:27:24until the
00:27:24sheriff showed
00:27:25up.
00:27:26So it was
00:27:26seven hours,
00:27:27eight hours of
00:27:28wondering.
00:27:31Then he had
00:27:31confirmed that
00:27:32Kaylee was
00:27:32gone, and
00:27:34that there
00:27:35was four
00:27:35victims.
00:27:37My mom
00:27:37asked if
00:27:38Maddie was
00:27:38one as
00:27:39well, and
00:27:40he confirmed
00:27:40that, too.
00:27:45I don't even
00:27:46know if I've
00:27:46really accepted
00:27:47anything that's
00:27:47happened yet.
00:27:49I still see
00:27:50people out in
00:27:51public that have
00:27:51Kaylee's
00:27:52hairstyle, and
00:27:52I think, you
00:27:53know, that,
00:27:54oh, Kaylee's
00:27:55here, and it
00:27:56takes a second
00:27:56to snap out
00:27:57of that.
00:28:00There's no
00:28:00closure.
00:28:01As of now, I
00:28:05don't even
00:28:05think I've
00:28:05begun the
00:28:07griefing or
00:28:07the mourning
00:28:08process.
00:28:10But it'll
00:28:11be a step in
00:28:12the right
00:28:12direction once
00:28:13the person
00:28:14responsible for
00:28:15these crimes
00:28:15is properly
00:28:17incarcerated.
00:28:18Mm-hmm.
00:28:19after the
00:28:30killings, one
00:28:32of the first
00:28:32steps law
00:28:33enforcement took
00:28:34is they
00:28:34canvassed the
00:28:35neighborhood for
00:28:36video cameras,
00:28:38ring cameras,
00:28:38and the
00:28:40investigators spot a
00:28:42vehicle operating
00:28:44in a suspicious
00:28:44manner the night
00:28:45of the killings.
00:28:46And that
00:28:47vehicle is
00:28:47identified as
00:28:48a 2011 to
00:28:492016 white
00:28:51Hyundai Elantra.
00:28:53There was not
00:28:54a front license
00:28:55plate on this
00:28:56vehicle.
00:28:57This is
00:28:58potentially the
00:28:59first significant
00:29:00piece of evidence
00:29:01they've released
00:29:02publicly so far in
00:29:03their effort to
00:29:04solve this case.
00:29:05The police
00:29:11collected
00:29:11surveillance
00:29:12footage of
00:29:13the white
00:29:13Elantra making
00:29:14three different
00:29:15passes past
00:29:17the house on
00:29:18King Road.
00:29:19And it's pretty
00:29:21suspicious to
00:29:21them.
00:29:32The white
00:29:33Elantra is
00:29:34seen in
00:29:35attempting to
00:29:35make a turn
00:29:36in front of
00:29:37the residence
00:29:37or park
00:29:38in front of
00:29:38the residence.
00:29:46And then
00:29:47it is seen
00:29:48speeding out
00:29:49of King Road.
00:29:58It's not a
00:29:59high traffic area.
00:30:01That caught
00:30:02the attention
00:30:02of investigators.
00:30:05police reveal
00:30:06they are
00:30:06combing through
00:30:0722,000 cars
00:30:08that match
00:30:09the search
00:30:09criteria of
00:30:10the one
00:30:10they're looking
00:30:11for.
00:30:11They're asking
00:30:12anyone with
00:30:13information about
00:30:13the car or
00:30:14who was driving
00:30:15it to call
00:30:16their tip line.
00:30:17A couple of weeks
00:30:33after the murders,
00:30:34an officer is
00:30:36surveilling vehicles
00:30:37on the campus
00:30:39of Washington State
00:30:40University.
00:30:41Washington State
00:30:47University is about
00:30:50a 10-minute drive
00:30:51from the
00:30:53University of
00:30:53Idaho.
00:30:58All of a sudden,
00:30:58the officer spots a
00:31:00white 2015 Hyundai
00:31:02Elantra.
00:31:03This car was
00:31:04registered out of
00:31:05Pennsylvania.
00:31:06it didn't have a
00:31:08front plate.
00:31:10Pennsylvania doesn't
00:31:11require a front
00:31:12license plate.
00:31:14The officer
00:31:15identifies the
00:31:16owner as Brian
00:31:18Kohlberger of
00:31:19Pennsylvania.
00:31:19The description
00:31:22on the license
00:31:23fit the individual
00:31:24that Dylan
00:31:25Mortensen saw
00:31:26that night.
00:31:27He's tall,
00:31:29athletically built,
00:31:31and he's got
00:31:32bushy eyebrows.
00:31:32But Brian Kohlberger
00:31:35has no history
00:31:36of violence
00:31:37whatsoever
00:31:38or criminal
00:31:38convictions.
00:31:40Potentially,
00:31:41law enforcement
00:31:42had a tunnel vision
00:31:43on Brian Kohlberger.
00:31:46If you look
00:31:47at that
00:31:47Hyundai Elantra,
00:31:49there were
00:31:50thousands of
00:31:51potential owners
00:31:52and vehicles
00:31:54matching that
00:31:54description in the
00:31:55area.
00:31:57Did they look
00:31:59into those
00:31:59other people?
00:32:01Or did they
00:32:02focus on
00:32:02an individual
00:32:03so strongly
00:32:05that the
00:32:07mere suggestion
00:32:07that some
00:32:08other alternative
00:32:09is possible
00:32:11doesn't get
00:32:12investigated,
00:32:13doesn't get
00:32:13looked into?
00:32:15We don't know.
00:32:32Brian starts
00:32:33off at
00:32:34Washington State
00:32:34University.
00:32:36He's a 28-year-old
00:32:38graduate student
00:32:39in criminology.
00:32:41He's a teaching
00:32:42assistant,
00:32:43which means that
00:32:43not only is he
00:32:45going for his own
00:32:45degree,
00:32:46for his doctorate,
00:32:47but he also has
00:32:48a responsibility
00:32:49to teach younger
00:32:51students undergraduates.
00:32:53The graduate
00:32:54department in criminology
00:32:55is very well
00:32:56respected.
00:32:57Brian Kohlberger is
00:32:58on this ladder
00:32:59of climbing,
00:33:00of social mobility.
00:33:05I knew
00:33:06Brian Kohlberger
00:33:06when I was a
00:33:07freshman at
00:33:08Washington State
00:33:08University.
00:33:10Brian was my
00:33:11teacher's assistant
00:33:12for my criminal
00:33:13justice class.
00:33:15Why don't you
00:33:16want to appear
00:33:16on camera?
00:33:18Because I'm
00:33:20afraid of
00:33:20Brian Kohlberger.
00:33:21The things that
00:33:22he's allegedly
00:33:23accused of are
00:33:24extremely scary,
00:33:26especially for
00:33:27me being a
00:33:29woman.
00:33:30It was my
00:33:31first day of
00:33:31class.
00:33:32He looked a
00:33:33little scary
00:33:33with sunken
00:33:34eyes,
00:33:36and his energy
00:33:36around him
00:33:37just didn't feel
00:33:38right.
00:33:39But he was
00:33:40respected as a
00:33:41TA because
00:33:42of how smart
00:33:44he was and
00:33:44where he was
00:33:46in his
00:33:46educational career.
00:33:47Brian Kohlberger
00:34:00grew up in
00:34:01a small,
00:34:03hardscrabble
00:34:04Pennsylvania
00:34:05community in
00:34:06the Poconos.
00:34:07He went to a
00:34:08high school where
00:34:09his father was a
00:34:10maintenance technician.
00:34:12His mother
00:34:12worked as a
00:34:13teacher for
00:34:14students with
00:34:15special needs.
00:34:18Brian Kohlberger's
00:34:19background was
00:34:19pretty normal.
00:34:22There was
00:34:22nothing of an
00:34:23abusive nature or
00:34:24anything egregious
00:34:26that occurred in
00:34:27his upbringing that
00:34:28has been
00:34:29disclosed.
00:34:30By all
00:34:31accounts,
00:34:32Brian Kohlberger's
00:34:34parents were
00:34:35really supportive
00:34:36of him and
00:34:37loved him.
00:34:39But there's
00:34:40been a lot of
00:34:41reporting out
00:34:41there that Brian
00:34:42Kohlberger was
00:34:43bullied in high
00:34:44school.
00:34:48At the
00:34:48beginning of his
00:34:49high school years,
00:34:50Brian was around
00:34:51125 pounds
00:34:53overweight.
00:34:56None of the
00:34:56kids treat him
00:34:57as a peer.
00:35:00And around
00:35:01the age of 15,
00:35:03he discovered
00:35:03that he may be
00:35:05suffering from a
00:35:06condition called
00:35:06visual snow.
00:35:09Visual snow
00:35:11is a phenomenon
00:35:12phenomenon where
00:35:13people see very
00:35:15tiny black and
00:35:16white spots that
00:35:18are moving very
00:35:19quickly in your
00:35:20entire visual field
00:35:22that simulates
00:35:24static or the
00:35:27snow that people
00:35:28would see on an
00:35:29older television set.
00:35:32And I personally
00:35:34have visual snow
00:35:35syndrome that is
00:35:37reported in around
00:35:382% of the
00:35:39population.
00:35:40You still see the
00:35:41world around you,
00:35:42but there are
00:35:43people where their
00:35:45symptoms may flare up
00:35:46and become severe
00:35:48enough where it does
00:35:49inhibit them in other
00:35:50parts of their life.
00:35:55If somebody's
00:35:56visual snow has
00:35:58night blindness or
00:35:59difficulty seeing in
00:36:00dim light or light
00:36:02sensitivity,
00:36:04tinnitus, which is a
00:36:05ringing of the
00:36:06ears, it may be
00:36:08challenging for you
00:36:09to engage in social
00:36:10activities.
00:36:12And so that can be
00:36:13very isolating.
00:36:15Higher rates of
00:36:16depression, anxiety,
00:36:19and sleep
00:36:19disturbances.
00:36:21And we don't have
00:36:22a cure.
00:36:24I don't personally
00:36:26know the exact
00:36:27medical history of
00:36:28Ryan Koberger, but
00:36:30he had posted online
00:36:31during his teenage
00:36:32years.
00:36:32It does sound
00:36:35like he was
00:36:37troubled by his
00:36:39symptoms of
00:36:40visual snow.
00:36:43He posted that he
00:36:45was suffering from
00:36:46ringing in his
00:36:47ears.
00:36:48And he had this
00:36:49fuzziness in his
00:36:50vision.
00:36:51And it really made
00:36:53him feel like all
00:36:54of the demons in
00:36:55his head were
00:36:56mocking him.
00:37:00This is what
00:37:01Brian likely said
00:37:02dead on internet
00:37:03forums.
00:37:05I am 15 in 21
00:37:06days, and I don't
00:37:08want to wish I'm
00:37:09dead because of
00:37:10this horrible thing.
00:37:12Something major is
00:37:13wrong with me.
00:37:14I am just a
00:37:15blank soul.
00:37:18I used to be a
00:37:19spelling bee champion.
00:37:21My doctor put me on
00:37:22every medication, and
00:37:24it made me crazy.
00:37:25I have delusions of
00:37:27grandeur.
00:37:27He says, in effect, I
00:37:31don't fit in
00:37:32anywhere.
00:37:33Why don't I fit in?
00:37:35It's a cry of
00:37:36anguish.
00:37:38Poor social skills.
00:37:41No emotion.
00:37:43I can say and do
00:37:43whatever I want with
00:37:44little remorse.
00:37:46Everyone hates me
00:37:47pretty much.
00:37:48I am an asshole.
00:37:49I find no joy in
00:37:51life.
00:37:51How he describes
00:37:59himself.
00:38:00I can say or do
00:38:02whatever I want with
00:38:04no emotion, no
00:38:05feeling.
00:38:07Did he have what it
00:38:08took internally to
00:38:11commit a murder like
00:38:12this?
00:38:12Around Brian Koberger's
00:38:16junior year in high
00:38:18school, he decides
00:38:20that he's going to
00:38:21reinvent himself.
00:38:24He starts working
00:38:25out, taking boxing
00:38:28lessons, starts running.
00:38:31He loses approximately
00:38:32125 pounds of weight,
00:38:34and then he now goes on
00:38:35a vegan diet.
00:38:37He turns his body first
00:38:38into a fortress and
00:38:39then a temple.
00:38:40After he lost weight,
00:38:44the people who knew
00:38:45him said that Brian
00:38:46Koberger changed.
00:38:48He became more angry.
00:38:52While he's this new
00:38:54Brian, he's still not
00:38:56fitting in.
00:39:01Around the time Brian
00:39:02graduates high school,
00:39:04he turns to heroin.
00:39:06This was somebody who
00:39:10was spiraling downward
00:39:11and fast.
00:39:14At one point, he stole
00:39:17his sister's cell phone.
00:39:19His father turned him
00:39:22into the police.
00:39:24And Brian was arrested
00:39:25and went to rehab,
00:39:28and it worked.
00:39:31At this point, there's a
00:39:35transformation in his
00:39:36life.
00:39:37He's able to kick
00:39:39heroin, and he's able
00:39:40to focus on his studies.
00:39:47He gets into the
00:39:48sales university, and his
00:39:50parents are very proud of
00:39:52him.
00:39:52Doing what Brian Koberger did
00:39:56does require a great deal
00:39:58of discipline.
00:40:00Going from the challenges
00:40:02he had as a teenager to
00:40:03then getting a master's
00:40:05degree, I mean, he had to
00:40:08be driven by something.
00:40:13Brian Koberger's chosen
00:40:16course of study, criminology,
00:40:17was it this desire to be a
00:40:21good guy and investigate
00:40:22crimes, or was it a desire
00:40:24to understand his own
00:40:27motivations, his own
00:40:29demons?
00:40:30After Brian Koberger is
00:40:46identified as the owner of a
00:40:48white Hyundai Elantra, they
00:40:50have to look for other ways to
00:40:52possibly tie him to the crime
00:40:53scene.
00:40:56Hello.
00:40:57Sir.
00:40:57I think you know why I
00:40:58stopped you.
00:40:59You were in the red light.
00:41:00What actually happened was I
00:41:01was stuck in the middle of
00:41:02the intersection.
00:41:03Yeah, I was behind you the
00:41:04whole time.
00:41:05Yeah.
00:41:05Yeah.
00:41:06Moscow police learned that
00:41:08Brian Koberger was pulled
00:41:09over a few times for routine
00:41:12traffic stops in the months
00:41:13leading up to the murders.
00:41:15And in August of 2022, he
00:41:18gave the police officer his
00:41:20cell phone number.
00:41:23The FBI issued a search
00:41:25warrant to produce records for
00:41:27Mr. Koberger's cell phone.
00:41:28This would help determine if
00:41:31Mr. Koberger actually had been
00:41:34in the area of the King Road
00:41:36residence on the night of the
00:41:38murders.
00:41:40On that night, Brian Koberger's
00:41:42phone allegedly is at his
00:41:43apartment in Pullman,
00:41:45Washington, which is about a 10-minute
00:41:46drive to Moscow.
00:41:47And they found video evidence
00:42:08that a white elanter was leaving his
00:42:11apartment and heading away from
00:42:13Pullman, Washington.
00:42:31And then Mr. Koberger's cell phone
00:42:33goes dark and is no longer
00:42:37communicating with cell phone towers.
00:42:39Two hours later, Brian Koberger's
00:43:01cell phone reconnects to the
00:43:03cellular system.
00:43:14It heads south of Moscow.
00:43:20Continues heading west.
00:43:22And then Brian Koberger's cell phone is
00:43:43back at his residence in
00:43:44Pullman, Washington.
00:43:55Law enforcement couldn't prove that
00:43:57Brian Koberger was actually at the
00:43:59King Road house during the time of
00:44:02the murders because there was no
00:44:04information being exchanged between
00:44:06the cell phone and cell phone towers
00:44:07during that time frame.
00:44:09The prosecution might say that Brian
00:44:12Koberger's phone was turned off or put
00:44:14into airplane mode so that his
00:44:16location could not be tracked to the
00:44:18night of the murders.
00:44:23But Brian Koberger's cell phone records
00:44:26also revealed that his phone was
00:44:29pinging within 100 meters of King Road
00:44:3323 times prior to the night of the
00:44:35murders.
00:44:36That's a pretty damning and powerful
00:44:38piece of evidence.
00:44:42In my opinion, this was conducting what
00:44:50we call in law enforcement a site
00:44:52survey.
00:44:53I need to understand the roads that go
00:44:56in and out.
00:44:57When did people arrive home?
00:44:59How many people are going in and out
00:45:01of that house?
00:45:05This is viewed in the realm of
00:45:07serial killers as a game.
00:45:08It is possible he was surveilling,
00:45:14planning a strategy to carry out these
00:45:16killings.
00:45:20But when you hear about cell phone
00:45:22evidence, it's almost impossible to
00:45:26pinpoint someone to a specific
00:45:28location.
00:45:28The defense came forward with an alibi for
00:45:40the night the murders occurred.
00:45:42They said, Brian Koberger was driving
00:45:45around stargazing.
00:45:47He likes to look at the stars, likes to
00:45:49look at the moon.
00:45:50They said that he was at a wilderness
00:45:55park about 20 miles southwest of
00:45:59Washington State University.
00:46:02And he was there at four in the morning
00:46:05staring at the stars with no witnesses
00:46:08around.
00:46:10And there were people who could testify that
00:46:12Brian Koberger would go off and wander off
00:46:14to parks at night.
00:46:16Quite frankly, to me, it sounds
00:46:21absolutely ridiculous that somebody is
00:46:24going to be out at four in the morning
00:46:25stargazing on a cloudy night in the
00:46:30middle of these murders being committed.
00:46:32There is a brilliance in this alibi, though,
00:46:34for the defense.
00:46:36They could say, if our client was
00:46:38stargazing in this area, would we be in
00:46:41a dead zone and not communicating with a
00:46:43tower?
00:46:43Yes.
00:46:55But this is an important point, I think.
00:46:59The next morning, Brian Koberger allegedly
00:47:02decides to return to the vicinity of
00:47:05King Road.
00:47:07Brian Koberger's phone went back to the
00:47:10area of the house and was pinging nearby.
00:47:17Sometimes killers return to the scene of
00:47:19the crime to kind of see the aftermath,
00:47:22to see what's going on.
00:47:24If he is who the prosecution believes he
00:47:28is, this is part of the fantasy.
00:47:30This is part of the game.
00:47:33For all we know, he may have wanted the food
00:47:36in downtown Moscow, where Washington state
00:47:40students are known to go to.
00:47:42It's not a crime to be in that location.
00:47:47But I think we're dealing with something even
00:47:50much more nefarious.
00:47:51That same morning, Brian Koberger takes
00:47:57a photograph of himself.
00:48:00Court papers say the selfie was taken in a
00:48:03bathroom just six hours after the slaughter.
00:48:06There's speculation that he had just showered to
00:48:09remove potential evidence.
00:48:11His smile in that picture is sinister.
00:48:16This does not appear to be a happenstance whim
00:48:20killing.
00:48:21This appears to have been a orchestrated,
00:48:25planned, surgically carried out killing.
00:48:28Before Washington State University, Brian went to
00:48:42DeSales, a distinguished university in Pennsylvania.
00:48:47He becomes involved in the criminal justice department.
00:48:52He was a star student and studied under a distinguished
00:48:56professor, Dr. Katherine Ramsland.
00:49:00Dr. Ramsland, does it serve us to keep serial killers
00:49:03top of mind to stay one step ahead of the next one?
00:49:05I think it's a good idea to know about them, in part
00:49:08to be able to catch some potential serial killers early.
00:49:14Katherine Ramsland is a heavyweight when it comes to
00:49:18forensic assessment of the criminal mind.
00:49:22She's brilliant.
00:49:23She goes out and reaches into the prisons
00:49:26and has conversations with serial killers.
00:49:31Now, Katherine Ramsland does not want to talk about the case,
00:49:35but my sources have told me that Brian idolizes her.
00:49:40He wants to be just like Dr. Ramsland.
00:49:44He wants to understand the criminal mind,
00:49:47how it functions, and how people break the law.
00:49:50In one of his classes, Brian Koberger wrote a paper about how to process a crime scene.
00:50:05The scenario involves a woman who has been stabbed to death in her home.
00:50:09Koberger gives step-by-step instructions on collecting evidence and documenting the murder scene.
00:50:14The prosecution is going to make an argument that this paper had a relevance to these crimes.
00:50:22It shows Brian Koberger having some knowledge of how crime scenes are investigated and processed.
00:50:29But on the other hand, Brian Koberger is pursuing a Ph.D. in criminology.
00:50:36It doesn't teach someone how to become a criminal.
00:50:40It just allows the person to understand the criminal mind
00:50:43and ultimately to understand why a crime may be committed.
00:50:48In fact, often, a criminologist is working in tandem with law enforcement.
00:50:53So it's entirely unfair to somehow say Brian Koberger committed these crimes
00:50:59simply because he was a student of criminology.
00:51:03But as a retired FBI agent,
00:51:07when you look at what Brian Koberger was studying
00:51:10and what he allegedly did,
00:51:15he was the perfect candidate to commit a crime like this almost seamlessly.
00:51:23As a teacher's assistant,
00:51:38Brian was very smart,
00:51:41but a lot of people considered him like a harsh grader,
00:51:47especially towards women.
00:51:49And a lot of the females said that he was sexist
00:51:52and he was disrespectful.
00:51:56Someone who was in the same class as me
00:51:58mentioned how she personally had an experience.
00:52:03It was her, Brian,
00:52:05and maybe a couple of other females and males in the office.
00:52:10She went up to ask for help and he just fully ignored her.
00:52:13He was just very rude and not professional at all.
00:52:17And so she left and didn't come back.
00:52:20I know that female students complain to the professor about Brian multiple times.
00:52:25There's a session set up with the professor and Brian about the complaints.
00:52:36And Brian becomes combative, vitriolic.
00:52:40And the professor is shocked.
00:52:42Just 11 days before the murders occur,
00:52:46Brian is called in to a meeting of the department heads and the law is laid down.
00:52:54The threat is that money he earns as a teaching assistant will be taken away,
00:53:01which means he can't afford the $27,000 to matriculate as a graduate student.
00:53:07So everything he's been building will fall apart.
00:53:10It's a very severe threat.
00:53:12It's a unnerving threat.
00:53:20But this is followed almost immediately by his following one of the students in his class
00:53:27back to her car.
00:53:31She said she was, quote, creeped out by this experience.
00:53:36She reports this to the department heads.
00:53:42Is it possible that when Brian Koberger found out that women had complained about him at
00:53:48Washington State University, that this somehow triggered him carrying out these murders?
00:53:56So you have an individual who in one sense was heading toward what would be a fine career in
00:54:04criminology. And at the same time, you had this divergent character who couldn't connect with
00:54:10people, who creeped people out. Brian Koberger's relations with women are pretty problematic.
00:54:17One woman said that she went out on a date with Brian. She invited her back to her apartment.
00:54:25He kept trying to touch me, just like trying to tickle me and rub my shoulders and stuff. And I was like,
00:54:32like, why are you touching me? Or what are you doing? And he would just like get super serious.
00:54:37And he's like, I'm not kind of like trying to gaslight me into thinking that he didn't touch me.
00:54:44Then I was like, I'm just going to run to the bathroom quick. And he was like, okay.
00:54:50And then he followed me to the bathroom, which I thought was kind of weird.
00:54:54So I proceeded to pretend to throw up to get him to leave.
00:55:03Brian then leaves the house. Later that night, she says she gets a text where he allegedly says,
00:55:10thanks for the date. I had a wonderful time. And you have great birthing hips.
00:55:14If somebody told me I had good birthing hips, it's not exactly the type of thing a woman wants to hear.
00:55:23He thought that perhaps that was being very suave, but it didn't have the desired effect.
00:55:28It got him deleted from her contacts.
00:55:33Kind of makes you think that Brian Koberger just doesn't know how to act around women.
00:55:38When he was attending DeSales University, he would sometimes go to a brewery nearby.
00:55:47Some of the servers reported that he would make creepy comments,
00:55:51ask them where they lived or what shifts they were working.
00:55:56The owner was quoted as saying that if women weren't interested in him, he got really annoyed.
00:56:02And one woman actually said that he called her a bitch.
00:56:08He had a lot of traits of an incel. An incel is somebody who is involuntarily celibate.
00:56:15He seemed like someone who led the life of somebody who was rejected by women,
00:56:21yet had a very high self-worth in some regards.
00:56:28Maddie Mogan, Haley Gonsalves, and Xana Karnotl were stunning young women.
00:56:36Women that walk into a room and people take notice.
00:56:41This is in part what causes the rage because incels believe that they are entitled to women like this,
00:56:50only they can't have women like this.
00:56:53This case, in my view, was absolutely a femicide. It was a crime against women.
00:56:59The prosecution couldn't believe it is a component to what motivated Brian Koberger.
00:57:11But just because he's awkward with women doesn't mean he went into a house in the middle of the night
00:57:17and stabbed three women and a man.
00:57:19We don't know why these individuals were murdered. Why would Brian Koberger hone in on these four students?
00:57:29When law enforcement start investigating a murder, they don't only look at potential suspects,
00:57:47but they also look at the victims.
00:57:50Who were they in contact with in the hours leading up to the death?
00:57:54Was Brian Koberger possibly following them?
00:57:59On the night of the killings, Kaylee and Maddie go to the Corner Club.
00:58:05The Corner Club is a fabled sports bar at the far end of Main Street in Moscow.
00:58:14They then, about one o'clock in the morning, leave the bar.
00:58:20They head to the food truck.
00:58:29The grub truck is our local favorite.
00:58:32It's a food truck that serves mac and cheese.
00:58:34Three is a lot.
00:58:36And the food truck always broadcasts or streamed on Twitch.
00:58:40So that video really made the rounds.
00:58:45Hello.
00:58:45Hi.
00:58:46Welcome back.
00:58:46Thanks.
00:58:48I think I would like the, um...
00:58:51The grub truck footage around 1.30 in the morning is the last footage that we have
00:58:56of the girls together. And it is just haunting to watch.
00:59:02The girls had no idea what was about to happen to them.
00:59:11Interestingly enough, there is a young guy from the bar that they know.
00:59:15He's wearing a hoodie and he is there watching.
00:59:19When they leave, it looks almost like he's following them.
00:59:24The person in the hoodie, I actually knew him before.
00:59:27And there are a lot of fingers being pointed at him.
00:59:32He later becomes a suspect, but he's totally cleared.
00:59:38And then the girls, they take a car service home.
00:59:44And the driver of that car service, he too is cleared.
00:59:48Breaking news authorities have now confirmed that Brian Koberger did not stalk any of his victims.
00:59:59There's also no connection between the people in the house and Mr. Koberger based on
01:00:06their cell phones, based on social media accounts.
01:00:09That is something that is very perplexing.
01:00:14Because you would have imagined that Brian would have wanted to stalk in that way.
01:00:22The fact that there is no social media connection is going to be helpful for the defense when
01:00:27they try to distance Brian Koberger away from any of these individuals and the crime.
01:00:33The question might be, if Brian Koberger wasn't involved with any of the victims on social media,
01:00:42how would he even know them or know about 1122 King Road?
01:00:46Mad Greek was a super cozy restaurant in downtown Moscow.
01:01:00Maddy worked there first and then Zanna ended up getting a job there as well.
01:01:05They were both servers there.
01:01:07The Mad Greek restaurant has, in addition to a Greek menu, a quasi-vegan menu.
01:01:18And Brian Koberger isn't vegan.
01:01:22There's been a lot of speculation that Brian Koberger possibly could have met Maddy or Zanna,
01:01:28or happened upon them at that restaurant.
01:01:30The prosecution might say that Brian Koberger became obsessed with Maddy at the Mad Greek,
01:01:37and maybe even Zanna. We just don't know.
01:01:42Maddy, was he attracted by her blonde good looks, her exuberance?
01:01:47Did they have any interaction? Did he hang out in the shadows?
01:01:52Or Zanna, she was a popular girl, very attractive?
01:01:56But ultimately, this information may have little value because there's no evidence to show that
01:02:03Zanna Kurnodal or Madison Mogan had any contact with Brian Koberger.
01:02:10We don't know if it was a heinous crime done at random.
01:02:14We don't know if it was someone who knew them.
01:02:17We don't know why this happened, but we do know that it was a tragedy.
01:02:22If the police can't connect the victims to Brian Koberger,
01:02:29they're going to have to find a way to link him to the crime scene.
01:02:35The question is, is there any physical evidence connecting Brian Koberger to the actual murders?
01:02:42Yeah, oh, here it is.
01:02:51Those are DNA fibers trapping the bubbles.
01:02:55That is wonderful.
01:02:58I'm a DNA expert based in Idaho.
01:03:02I started doing criminal case work in about 2000.
01:03:08I've certainly been involved with a lot of cases.
01:03:12And here you see some epithelial cells.
01:03:16Epithelial cells are the cells that we have in our skin, lining of the mouth.
01:03:22A lot of times in crime scenes, we'll see these kind of samples either taken from victims
01:03:26or indirect transfer or touch.
01:03:29The one piece of concrete evidence the police had early on in the case was a knife sheath for the
01:03:41K-Bar knife that was left in the bed where Maddie was found.
01:03:45On the button snap of this knife sheath, the Idaho crime lab is able to identify DNA residue.
01:03:55It's touched DNA.
01:03:58The term touched DNA, all it means is we found a little bit of DNA.
01:04:04The DNA, according to the affidavit, is actually deposited here in the lower snap, right here.
01:04:11This is a remnant DNA from a single source.
01:04:16It's a partial bit of DNA.
01:04:19This is deposition from a skin cell.
01:04:21Every time we touch something, we're leaving skin cells.
01:04:30I'm shedding thousands of cells.
01:04:32Just during this interview, I'm shedding thousands of cells.
01:04:35I may have owned objects years ago.
01:04:42My DNA can still be on them.
01:04:45So if I leave here with a coffee cup that I touched,
01:04:49if that coffee cup is put in somebody's bag, it might touch their clothing or something they
01:04:55have in the bag, and then my DNA is going to end up there.
01:05:00Incredibly, someone's touched DNA could be at a crime scene,
01:05:03and that person may have never been there.
01:05:10Touched DNA is imperfect.
01:05:12It lends itself to contamination.
01:05:15It lends itself to possibly not giving a strong sample.
01:05:20Versus direct DNA, like blood or saliva, where it's conclusive.
01:05:26Touched DNA has led to false convictions in the past.
01:05:31But in this case, the touch DNA was found exactly where you would touch the sheath,
01:05:40at the button.
01:05:42So you have probable cause to find out whose DNA it is.
01:05:46Law enforcement ran the DNA from the knife sheath through CODIS, a combined DNA indexing system.
01:05:59It's the FBI's database. It has convicted offenders from each state.
01:06:05And they got no hits.
01:06:08No hits. What do you do?
01:06:10Even though you have a profile, you don't know whose DNA it is.
01:06:15I can only imagine that the police at that moment, they've got this sheath, which seems like gold,
01:06:21from an evidentiary standpoint, and they don't get a return on this thing.
01:06:26So you go back to the laboratory drawing board, and you reprocess that sample then for investigative
01:06:34genetic genealogy.
01:06:37Genealogy is the method of showing who we're related to.
01:06:41And genetic genealogy uses DNA evidence.
01:06:46You can load it up to one of the genealogy sites.
01:06:50Does this evidence have any relatives in this database?
01:06:55First, you look for the family tree of the evidence, and you've got to build out a pretty
01:07:00big tree from there to look at all the possible people who could have been at the crime scene.
01:07:06The Idaho State Police send the DNA sample to the FBI crime lab at Quantico.
01:07:18And the FBI begins to build out a family tree.
01:07:25All we know of this family tree is that we get Brian Koberger's great-great-grandparents,
01:07:32and this eventually leads them to Brian as a suspect.
01:07:37Forensic investigative genealogy is great for generating leads, but it gives you a tree of
01:07:44people. It doesn't tell you an exact match to a person. And you have to confirm that independently
01:07:50with traditional DNA testing later on. The touch DNA taken from the knife sheath
01:07:58can still be utilized, but you've got to get Kohlberger to match it. Separate from the
01:08:02investigative genetic genealogy. And if you can't match it, it's just not enough.
01:08:18When the murders first came out, Washington State University said it wasn't really our business.
01:08:31So we continued classes right after the murders like nothing happened. Brian still showed up to class.
01:08:39Brian, before the murders, was very put together. Shaven all the time and had his hair done.
01:08:48But after the murders, before Christmas break, there was less time put into his appearance.
01:08:54He also started writing paragraphs on how good our work was and sending emails reminding us to turn in
01:09:04assignments. I think he was trying to make himself seem nicer.
01:09:09But he was still getting in those arguments with a professor. He was warned multiple times,
01:09:20and yet he kept pushing. And the decision is made that this contract for this teaching
01:09:26assistant will not be renewed for the next term. And they are going to write Brian Kohlberger during
01:09:32Christmas vacation. Brian knew that he was in trouble and that all his hopes and ambitions would
01:09:40come tumbling down. Brian's father flies out from Pennsylvania to see his son, and they're going
01:09:54to drive home together for the Christmas holidays. If you have any information about the car, you are
01:09:59urged to contact the Moscow police tip line. There's Brian's father sitting shoulder to shoulder with his
01:10:09son in a white Hyundai Elantra. You know that your son lives 10 miles away from where four people were
01:10:17brutally murdered, and he has to have suspicions. When this pair of Kohlberger's hit Indiana, something
01:10:27interesting occurred. Two traffic stops were made within 10 minutes of one another.
01:10:33Hello. How you doing? How y'all doing today? Good, good. Take a look at your driver's lines real quick,
01:10:39if I could. So you're coming from Washington State University? Yeah. And you're going where?
01:10:45Oh. We're going to be going to Pennsylvania. Oh, okay. We're a little, we're slightly clutching,
01:10:53because we've been driving for hours. Hours? Days? Hours. Indiana State Police said Kohlberger was behind
01:11:00the wheel when he was stopped on I-70 outside of Indianapolis for following too closely.
01:11:06Do me a favor and don't follow too close, okay?
01:11:08Kohlberger. Kohlberger was allegedly tailgating in both instances. I guess that could happen,
01:11:16but it just seems awfully odd. According to my sources, the FBI was following Brian Kohlberger.
01:11:28The defense has come out and said the FBI had been following Kohlberger for days. But I don't think
01:11:35Brian knew that he was being followed. At some point, the FBI and the Idaho investigators reach
01:11:43out to the Pennsylvania State Police. They need their help, and the Pennsylvania State Police
01:11:49begin to surveil the Kohlberger house in Albrightville.
01:12:06After Brian and his father return home for the holidays, the Pennsylvania State Police are
01:12:12surveilling the home undetected. The investigators are watching Brian Kohlberger, wearing gloves, take his trash
01:12:24and place it into a neighbor's receptacle. At that point, under the law, it's abandoned property.
01:12:35You forego your expectation of privacy when it's trash, let alone in someone else's garbage.
01:12:43The decision is made. We're going to try to get more DNA evidence from this garbage to see if there's
01:12:48any trace of Brian Kohlberger's DNA that can match what they found on the button of the knife sheath.
01:13:01On December the 27th, they pulled that trash,
01:13:06send it out to the Idaho State Crime Lab to look for DNA deposition in there,
01:13:12and I'd be doggone if they didn't find it. The evidence is analyzed, and it is determined to be
01:13:21the DNA of the father of the individual whose DNA was left on the knife sheath.
01:13:29That is a gigantic find that literally ties this case together from a DNA perspective.
01:13:36That allows them to issue the arrest warrant and make the arrest.
01:13:50SWAT comes in and bursts through the door. Reportedly, upon entry into the house,
01:13:57Brian Kohlberger is found there in the kitchen, wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and surgical gloves.
01:14:03And he's taking out his personal trash out of the family trash and placing it in individual ziplock bags.
01:14:13Who puts garbage out with rubber gloves on and separates their garbage from their parents?
01:14:20Why would someone do that? Because they're hiding their DNA profile. Remember, Brian Kohlberger was studying criminology.
01:14:33The defense claims that Brian has exhibited this type of compulsive behavior ever since he was a kid.
01:14:40He's had an obsession with hand washing, and he's also obsessed with cleaning.
01:14:46Brian going through the garbage with his gloves on, it could be attributed to that.
01:14:51They get a warrant to take a cheek swab. This cheek swab matches the DNA on the knife sheet.
01:14:58That DNA is the most powerful piece of evidence in this case.
01:15:16Last night, detectives arrested 28-year-old Brian Christopher Kohlberger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania.
01:15:24When Brian Kohlberger was arrested, I immediately went to his residence.
01:15:33The Steptoe Apartments outside of Washington State University.
01:15:39Good morning, YouTube Chronicles of Olivia here. So as you can see, I'm in front of Brian Kohlberger's apartment.
01:15:45It was taped off with yellow crime scene tape.
01:15:53They were removing items from the apartment in these bins, in these containers.
01:16:00From what we know, there was no DNA or blood in his car, in his apartment,
01:16:05or at his parents' house, connecting Brian Kohlberger with these four individuals.
01:16:22The house where four University of Idaho students were murdered more than a year ago is set to be demolished next week.
01:16:28Prosecutors were granted access to the crime scene yesterday for the last time.
01:16:32The university president thought he would maybe get rid of this aura that's hanging over the
01:16:40campus by destroying the murder house. He literally sent bulldozers in and had it torn down.
01:16:48For me, that was a big mistake. Nothing takes the place of being able to take a jury
01:16:53and have them walk through that scene. That chance is gone now. It's all gone.
01:16:57I was there when they tore the house down. And it was quick. It looked like cardboard, like a cardboard box.
01:17:11It's just a memory right now.
01:17:15A new trial date for the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students.
01:17:19Brian Kohlberger's trial is set for August of 2025. It's going to be one of the most closely watched trials that we've had.
01:17:32Cases like the Kohlberger case get incredible amounts of media attention.
01:17:39The trial has been moved to Boise, Idaho.
01:17:41Brian Kohlberger's attorneys argued that they needed to change the venue because there would be such a
01:17:48mob mentality surrounding the trial in Moscow that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trial.
01:17:54Being a student who was in Moscow, I saw Kohlberger at the county courthouse.
01:18:01Do you understand?
01:18:02Yes.
01:18:03When I heard him speak, it was just a reminder that he's a young guy. He sounded like he could have been
01:18:10any other kid on campus to me. If he did do this, a murderer is just, they look like an average person.
01:18:17You don't know what they're capable of.
01:18:19I'm going to cover the trial. I intend to be there every single day if I can.
01:18:30I hope to find out if there is any connection between the victims and Brian Kohlberger,
01:18:38and I'm curious to see what the roommates have to say.
01:18:42I think the question everyone's going to be looking to get answered is, what was the motivation?
01:18:49Why was it these four?
01:18:52If he hadn't been caught, would these have been his only murders?
01:18:57As a prosecutor, I would say that Brian Kohlberger, you have his vehicle,
01:19:04which matches the vehicle seen coming and going from the house that night.
01:19:10You have his cell phone, which pings in that general area in the days and weeks leading up to these killings.
01:19:19He matched the physical description that Dylan provided.
01:19:23You have his DNA that was left behind on a knife sheath.
01:19:31The warrant was served on Amazon tracking Kohlberger's purchases over an extended period of time.
01:19:38Kohlberger purchased the K-Bar knife on Amazon.
01:19:44That piece of evidence in the courtroom would be like a nuclear bomb.
01:19:51He's either guilty of murder or the unluckiest man in America.
01:19:56But there are multiple points of reasonable doubt here.
01:20:02The evidence with the knife sheath highlights the problem with touch DNA analysis and investigation.
01:20:09That transfer of DNA could have happened elsewhere, so that's not conclusive evidence.
01:20:14The defense is going to say Brian Kohlberger is innocent.
01:20:20That the focus of the police on Brian Kohlberger caused them to disregard
01:20:26thousands and thousands of tips that they received because they believe they've had their man
01:20:32and they focus solely on him.
01:20:34Reportedly, there were news reports going around that there were DNA from other individuals
01:20:40that were discovered at the house on King Road.
01:20:42Brian Kohlberger's attorneys say blood from an unknown man was found on a handrail in the victim's home,
01:20:50and another's DNA was found on a glove outside.
01:20:57Is it possible that someone other than Brian Kohlberger could be responsible for these murders?
01:21:04Could Brian Kohlberger be innocent?
01:21:06That's why this trial is going to be so important because we'll get the answers to some of those questions.
01:21:20We do know that Idaho has the death penalty and the prosecution will be seeking the death penalty.
01:21:25In case after case, they have not been able to find the chemicals necessary for a lethal injection.
01:21:34A bill was introduced that would allow a firing squad to take place.
01:21:40Death by firing squad as a means of capital punishment is pretty incredible.
01:21:47But in the end, it will be up to the jury to decide.
01:21:51And right now, it's hard to predict what 12 citizens of Idaho will say when confronted with all this evidence.
01:21:59Will they find Brian Kohlberger innocent or guilty?
01:22:12These were kids that were social and studying and headed toward bigger things.
01:22:20That's the tragedy here.
01:22:21One of the fathers of the victims said, you send your daughter off to college and she comes back to you in an urn.
01:22:31And this is every parent's worst nightmare.
01:22:38The last photo that Kaylee had posted was all of them together.
01:22:44That photo was taken on the afternoon of November 12th, the day before they died.
01:22:51And it's really become the symbol of this case.
01:22:54I mean, they're frozen in time.
01:22:59They spent that day just like expressing their love for each other.
01:23:02Like, you know, I'm so lucky that we have found such great roommates and friends.
01:23:07And I remember talking to Dylan and she was like, that was like the best day.
01:23:10We were just all together, just so happy.
01:23:12Every single one of them was just having the best day.
01:23:15Yeah.
01:23:16And I just hope that they're at peace.
01:23:19Yeah.
01:23:20Yeah.
01:23:20Yeah.
01:23:21After everything happened, we just promised that we would live on through Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna, and Ethan.
01:23:28So we all went to go get tattoos to honor them.
01:23:34For Maddie, I got her name just right at the front.
01:23:38It's her handwriting from a little note that she had written.
01:23:43It just says Maddie Mae with a little heart for the eye.
01:23:47Because a lot of people call her Maddie Mae.
01:23:49Yeah.
01:23:49I think that it's a great way to remember her.
01:23:53People often notice it and it gives me a chance to be like, oh yeah, this was my best friend.
01:23:58Like, let me tell you all about her.
01:24:00Yeah.
01:24:00Yeah.
01:24:01Yeah.
01:24:01Yeah.
01:24:01And then I got angel wings and then I got MM also for Maddie Mae.
01:24:07And a heart.
01:24:08So yeah, she's always there.
01:24:11I actually have, it's a different set of angel wings, but it's in the same place.
01:24:15It's M heart X for Maddie and Zanna.
01:24:19My tattoo, I have one on the side here, which says,
01:24:24love you like crazy, which is something that Maddie had written in one of the
01:24:28letters that she gave to me.
01:24:31And then on the back of my neck, which you might be able to see,
01:24:36the angel wings back there for Maddie.
01:24:39It definitely makes you look at life a lot differently.
01:24:42Yeah.
01:24:43I just don't take anything for granted.
01:24:45Life is so short.
01:24:46You never know what's going to happen.
01:24:47Loving people unconditionally.
01:24:51That's all you can do.
01:24:52Yeah.
01:24:52You know, it's just be grateful for those times that you had.
01:24:58So with the trial coming up, do you have any concerns or hopes?
01:25:19My biggest concern would be with the prosecution accepting a plea deal.
01:25:24I don't think for the crimes that were committed that life in prison is even acceptable.
01:25:30It's just not a fitting punishment for what happened.
01:25:36Nothing will ever be the same.
01:25:37Kayleigh will never be back.
01:25:39Ah, Maddie, and Zanna
01:25:41will never be back here.
01:25:48ETHAN, ZANNA, MATTY and Kayleigh—
01:25:51they knew how to live life to the fullest,
01:25:53and not everyone does.
01:25:56We can feel inspired by the love that they gave
01:26:01and to share those memories and not forget them.
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