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00:00Hello, I'm Adam Liao and welcome to The Cook-Up, a long-term solution to a short-term problem.
00:26Tonight we are making salt and Sichuan pepper roast chicken, chocolate tart with salted caramel and salt and pepper squid and prawns.
00:32Let's meet our guests.
00:34As the founder of Black Star Pastry, renowned pastry chef Christopher Tay broke the internet with the most Instagram cake in the world.
00:41Since inventing the strawberry watermelon cake, he has gone on to open Hearth in Stanmore and is working on his first cookbook.
00:46Hi, Christopher.
00:46Hi, Adam.
00:47Great to have you here.
00:48Richard Tonietti, AO, has cooked for Neil Perry and Heston Blumenthal, which you might find surprising given he's not a chef.
00:54He's the artistic director and lead violin of the Australian Chamber Orchestra.
00:57Welcome, Richard.
01:00Richard, that intro, that refers to actually your birthday party where you cooked not just for, but with and alongside Neil and Heston.
01:08Yeah, of course, I'm wondering how you found that out.
01:11I know, it sounds like a joke, doesn't it?
01:13I think we found out from Satyvanska, your wife, who is a friend of the show.
01:18There you go.
01:19But thank you.
01:20And I heard that you play the violin, so.
01:22Let's not talk about that.
01:25I certainly hope that you cook a lot better than I play the violin.
01:28Well, we'll see about that.
01:29And I've heard that you are a fantastic guy.
01:30Why do you like cooking?
01:31Oh, well, my mum was a cook.
01:33She was a caterer.
01:35And she insisted that we be in the kitchen as kids and learn how to cook.
01:40Christopher, the watermelon cake, we have to talk about it first up.
01:46Where does the inspiration for something like that come from?
01:48It's just a picture you get in your head.
01:50And sometimes these cakes, they just evolve just instantly and they're great.
01:56Usually it takes like six, seven goes to get something right.
01:59Yeah.
01:59But this one just was like born.
02:02And it was for a wedding cake.
02:04Oh, really?
02:04Yeah.
02:05Yeah.
02:05The brief was, just make me something crazy.
02:08It was a good friend.
02:08Yeah.
02:09And I usually would put like a jelly layer or a cake layer for that red stripe.
02:14But for some reason, I just went, let's do something crazy.
02:17So let's use watermelon.
02:18One of Australia's and the world's literally first ever viral recipes.
02:24And it is quite literally the most Instagram cake in the world.
02:27Yeah.
02:27My kids for their birthday, they still want it all the time.
02:30I personally, I love it.
02:31In the words of salt and pepper, salt and pepper's here and we're in effect.
02:35That's right.
02:36We are cooking with salt and pepper.
02:40How do you go with savoury foods, Christopher?
02:42Oh, actually, I trained as a savoury chef and then I transitioned into dessert.
02:47So, yeah, I love it.
02:49Richard, is salt and pepper on your dining table or in your kitchen?
02:53Both.
02:54Okay.
02:54But mainly in the kitchen.
02:56Give me salt and pepper and I'll give you salt and citron pepper roast chicken.
03:01I'm going to make a roast chook.
03:07Cumin, fennel and citron peppercorns.
03:12I'll just toast those very lightly over a flame just until they're fragrant.
03:17And I always toast spices in a saucepan.
03:22Spices into the mortar and pestle.
03:23I'll give those a rough crush first.
03:25So, I do want this to be quite coarse and we can use this, I'm going to coat it on the
03:30chicken and roast it, but we'll also put some on at the end as well.
03:33So, flavour you can see and touch.
03:37Richard, as the artistic director of an orchestra, at what point in a musical career does the thing
03:45that you're doing become art?
03:47Huh.
03:48That's a good question.
03:49Like, I'm just saying, like, me, as an eight-year-old, working away, like, that's, I don't think that's art.
03:55We never call ourselves artists, for a start.
03:58You know, we kind of laugh a little bit at people calling themselves creatives.
04:04Right.
04:04And artists.
04:05And, in fact, I've heard in certain languages they don't even have the word for artist.
04:09You're a violinist or an author or whatever you do.
04:14And so, we don't say, well, we're artists.
04:18We just call each other by their instrumentalist names.
04:22You're a violist and that's no joke.
04:25But when we're looking at the great composers, of course, and we can say they're part of the art canon,
04:32but we don't refer to each other really as artists.
04:35Is there a point, I guess, in your creative career there where the thing that you're doing
04:41is not, I guess, trying to play pieces that somebody's already written or anything,
04:46but even if you are, but to find deeper meaning in it and to do it, I guess, in a different way?
04:51Yeah, I mean, you hope that that comes from just doing your job.
04:55I mean, I'm not just using false humility here, but a lot of it is, you know,
05:00that technique is the business of art.
05:03I mean, it's like that's where there are parallels to cooking, you know,
05:07and I'm sure you didn't think I'm going to make, you know, an Instagrammable cake
05:11that's going to be viral.
05:13You went just humbly about your job trying to make watermelon and whatever.
05:17Yeah, to eat.
05:18And so, it is like that with making music.
05:21Actually, that's an expression that we use a lot.
05:23Yeah, right.
05:24Making music.
05:26You still get nervous?
05:28We know how to deal with nerves.
05:30In fact, we get nervous if we're not nervous.
05:33Oh, no.
05:35Because you never know when the so-called stage nerves will hit.
05:38But we know how to deal with it.
05:40We're so used to it.
05:42Christopher, I guess it's similar for you in the sense that patisserie is quite often
05:49not so much a defined set of notes like you might have in music,
05:53but a defined set of, like, you've got an anglaise, you've got a this, that, a dacquoise and a meringue.
05:59But at what point does that become something that, you know, sort of transcends the,
06:04becomes more than the sum of its parts?
06:05It's like the classics are the culinary language we all speak.
06:09So, it's like if I talk about an anglaise, you immediately know what we mean.
06:13Yeah.
06:13And then, really, I think a lot of it's about how you can put your own spin on something that's a classic.
06:21Because the classics are generally classics for a reason, and they're usually very, very good.
06:24So, really, it's like if you can see something that exists and kind of see an angle that no one's ever seen before,
06:32like, that's really a really great creative skill.
06:36Hmm.
06:37So, I now have my chicken that I've just cut the backbone out.
06:40You can use a pair of regular scissors for that, like I did.
06:42You don't need any kind of special scissor.
06:45And what I'm going to do is I might actually do this on top of the vegetables, so I don't spill anything.
06:49I think sometimes we do a lot of stuff on a board.
06:54But if you do this on top of the vegetables, then all of the seasoning's going to go back out down into the vegetables themselves.
06:58So, I'll take my salt, really be quite liberal with that, both inside,
07:04and I'll put my bits of backbone underneath there as well.
07:09Tuck the wings under the front.
07:11Do you ever debone the chicken for something like that?
07:14Yeah, but it's an easier process once the chicken's cooked.
07:19So, I kind of prefer to do it that way.
07:22And then I'll just drizzle this with a touch of oil and pop that into the oven.
07:26I don't need to use too much oil because the juices of the chicken, because I've got all the vegetables underneath,
07:31that will actually help render the oil from the chicken as well as...
07:34What sort of oil do you use?
07:35That's just a veg oil. You could use olive oil. You can use butter if you wanted to.
07:38It'd be quite nice with butter, maybe.
07:43So, then I just want to chop a few herbs to go on top of my chicken at the end.
07:46I'll just take a bit of coriander and some spring onions.
07:50Christopher, at hearth. How is hearth different from Blackstar?
07:53So, hearth is different from Blackstar because I'm just into baking with native Australian ingredients.
07:59Our Indigenous people, they've got such a beautiful relationship with the food of this land.
08:03But I really want to get just everyday Australians.
08:06There's everybody eating and baking with all the ingredients that are grown in this land.
08:12So, everything we do has a little bit of a native touch to it.
08:14And there are just so many flavours there, like, just to explore.
08:18For a chef, like, you rarely get to taste something that you haven't tasted before.
08:22But when you start to, like, just see what grows around you...
08:25But it's hard to find these ingredients.
08:27It is, isn't it?
08:28Yeah.
08:28Especially if you're time poor.
08:30Yeah.
08:31Well...
08:31So, where do you find the ingredients for the...
08:34Once you start to learn about it, you can find them everywhere, actually.
08:38There's lily pillies and warrigal greens.
08:40But I reckon, give it a couple of years, they'll be everywhere.
08:45It's going to happen.
08:47I have to say, the availability of native ingredients is so different now to even what it was five years ago.
08:53You know, and it's just getting more and more easily available.
08:57So, I wouldn't be surprised if it's very, very available in a few years.
09:01So, I'm just going to actually carve this just because I think it's nice to carve a chook.
09:05So, I want to take...
09:07I'll take the wing off.
09:09Just try and find the right angles to get through.
09:12And if you do, then you shouldn't need too much in terms of effort.
09:18And then, I'm just going to slice through the breast horizontally.
09:23Which then allows me to get these nice...
09:27Looks really tender.
09:28Yeah.
09:29Butterflying is really the way to idiot-proof your chicken in some way.
09:35Because it allows you to do all these things that are really a lot easier.
09:39So, then I'll finish that.
09:41There's just some of these vegetables on the side.
09:44So, I'll drizzle a little bit of black vinegar into the vegetables.
09:48And you've got kind of a ready-made vegetable side dish there that we can serve with the chicken.
10:00A few spring onions and bits of coriander on top.
10:04And I'll just give it a little drizzle of chilli oil as well.
10:09Just because I can.
10:13And that is a Sichuan salt and pepper roast chicken.
10:18Brilliant.
10:19It looks delicious.
10:19So, this, I think, would be fantastic served with rice.
10:27I know, like, just like a crispy chicken that you get at a restaurant.
10:30And you get these vegetables on the bottom, which is almost like a separate dish to go with it as well.
10:36It's delicious.
10:37Oh, it is.
10:37Spices are great.
10:38And so, you make your own chilli oil.
10:40Mm.
10:40You've got to tell us how to do that something.
10:43But this is amazing.
10:44Oh, it's amazing.
10:44This is incredible.
10:45Got a bit of heat there.
10:47Yeah.
10:47It's actually probably more from the oil than anything else.
10:49So, I haven't used a lot of chilli in the rest of it.
10:52But that with a bowl of rice, my happy place.
10:55And we'll return.
10:56Christopher and Richard will start cooking.
11:09Welcome back to The Cook-Up.
11:10We've got salt and pepper and two litres in their fields.
11:13Pastry pioneer Christopher Tay and musical maestro Richard Pognetti.
11:16Christopher, what are you making with salt and pepper?
11:18I'm sticking to my dessert theme.
11:20I'm making a salted caramel chocolate tart.
11:24Interesting.
11:25Richard?
11:25So, salt and pepper squid and prawns.
11:29Beautiful.
11:38Salt and pepper squid and prawns.
11:40Yeah.
11:41One of my favourites, I have to say.
11:42Yeah.
11:43How does Richard Pognetti make his version?
11:45So, I used to just use flour with the salt and pepper mix.
11:49But it was kind of hit and miss.
11:51And recently, I've been making a slightly more tempera-style batter.
11:56So, the egg binds the flour and so forth.
11:59Interesting.
11:59Is that?
12:00Yeah.
12:00Yeah.
12:01Sounds good to me.
12:01And then just very recently.
12:03So, this is just plain flour.
12:04Yeah.
12:04That I put in with a bit of corn flour.
12:06Sure.
12:07Which sort of is more starchy.
12:09It's good because the corn flour reduces, I guess, the overall gluten content of what's
12:14happening there, which stops.
12:15Gluten is what makes batters stretchy, well, doughs and batters and things stretchy and maybe
12:19a little bit tough.
12:20Mm-hmm.
12:20But adding the cornstarch reduces that gluten, so it becomes a little lighter and fluffier.
12:25And as I said, a bit more temperish.
12:26And then this is a bit of, well, baking powder or bicarb.
12:32And this just creates a slight bit of puffiness.
12:35Fantastic.
12:35Am I using too much?
12:36No, no.
12:37You could throw all of that in, I reckon.
12:38You reckon?
12:38Yeah, absolutely.
12:39Okay.
12:39Because the baking powder produces carbon dioxide when it heats up, so then the-
12:45Expands.
12:45Expands and gives you-
12:46And then there's a bit of panko flour and sometimes I use wholemeal.
12:50Okay.
12:51Just to make it a bit coarser.
12:52Oh, nice.
12:53That's an excellent addition, can I say?
12:55Okay.
12:56And then this is the stuff.
12:59The great stuff, isn't it?
13:00This is, you made this yourself.
13:01Yeah, so this has some Sarawak pepper.
13:04Mm-hmm.
13:05And then it's got Szechuan pepper, which isn't, strictly speaking, a pepper.
13:10Sure.
13:10But it's an extraordinary spice.
13:12It is.
13:12One of my favourite.
13:14Probably all of that.
13:15Oh, very cool.
13:16Or?
13:16Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:17I don't know.
13:17No, no, no.
13:19I am serious.
13:20This is your recipe, don't I?
13:21The only reason I accepted this was to learn from the great master.
13:24And then some real, you know, Szechuan pepper.
13:27Lovely.
13:28Like that.
13:28And Sarawak's from your-
13:30Yes, from my neck of the woods, from Malaysia, the east side.
13:33No, and as soon as you smell these peppers-
13:36And regular pepper.
13:37Yeah.
13:38Chalk and cheese.
13:38Uh-oh.
13:39This is it.
13:40It's like the difference between salt and pepper.
13:42That looks great.
13:44Christopher.
13:45So what is happening with the, oh, you've got caramel going there all the-
13:49It is just caramel.
13:51So you want to make a caramel, but you want this to be quite dark because we're going to
13:55pour it onto white chocolate.
13:57We're going to pour this in, but just be careful, just a bit at a time.
14:00It spits a little.
14:01A bit at a time and you'll be right.
14:03You see that?
14:05Yeah.
14:08It's all about the timing.
14:10And just bring that up to the boil.
14:12And then I've actually got white chocolate here in a processor.
14:15Okay.
14:16Amazing.
14:16And that's going to-
14:17And so this sort of caramel is now going to go into the white chocolate.
14:21Yeah, we're making a ganache, but the ganache is flavoured with this dark caramel.
14:26There we go.
14:27The thing I love about what it is that you're doing, Hearth, is it's different from history,
14:32but there's also a real difference in the way that you're using the native ingredients
14:36there as well.
14:37Yeah.
14:37I'm just trying to add them into all our everyday stuff.
14:41It's like as if they're just our everyday ingredients, because I just believe that's
14:45the way we should be eating.
14:46Absolutely.
14:47All right.
14:47Turn this on.
14:50And then there's just a little bit of salt.
14:54Yeah.
14:55Hence the salted caramel brings out the flavour and butter at the end.
15:01Oh, wow.
15:01This looks delicious.
15:05Oh, yeah.
15:06That looks so good.
15:09Yeah.
15:09It's perfect.
15:10Look at that.
15:11So it needs to be quite thick, otherwise your tart's going to go everywhere.
15:14It is quite a runny tart.
15:16Look at that.
15:17That looks fantastic.
15:19A bit more than we need, but we can always keep it in the fridge for now.
15:21Oh, trust me, it's not going to go to waste.
15:23All right.
15:25Check that out.
15:26What is that?
15:27Blue gum eucalyptus essence?
15:29Yeah.
15:30That's not a normal thing.
15:32You want it to taste of the bush, really.
15:34Yeah.
15:34Well, this is why I really love what you're doing at Hearth with your use of native ingredients
15:38there, because I think you're using it in some ways that I've never tried them before.
15:44You know, there's places that you can substitute one native ingredient for another, and that's
15:47a really great start.
15:48But then you have something like this, where it's like you can really smell the eucalyptus
15:52coming through that.
15:53It can be polarising.
15:54Yeah.
15:55Some people, it might be too much.
15:56But this is, I find it exciting to taste something that you haven't, that you don't really taste
16:01before.
16:01But you know, with the strong flavours like eucalyptus, you do have to be careful.
16:06Oh, that is delicious.
16:07Yeah.
16:07Too much, and it's confronting.
16:09My goodness.
16:10But just a little bit, it's fine.
16:12That's absolutely, just stop making the rest of it.
16:15I'm just going to eat spoonfuls of that, because the salt, the saltiness of the salt.
16:19It's actually nice.
16:20The bitter, you're telling me.
16:21The bitterness of the caramel, plus the creaminess of the cream is offset by that kind of menthol-y
16:28nature.
16:29That's so good.
16:30I cannot wait to see what this turns into.
16:35Richard.
16:36Hello.
16:37Okay.
16:38This is cool.
16:40Because there's a lot, like, you've got the flour, you've got the egg, and then you've
16:43got this kind of, I don't know, it's like a, it's a wet dredge.
16:47It's a batter kind of thing.
16:48Yeah, kind of, as I said, temperish.
16:50Yeah.
16:51I hope it's not, I hope it's not too battery, but I sort of like it somehow.
16:55Well, as long as the batter is light, and you've got, you know, soda water's in there,
17:01you've got the baking powder in there, that's going to keep it light and puffy, it's going
17:08to be, I think, quite interesting.
17:10So, vegetable oil on the heat.
17:12Yep.
17:13With a thermometer.
17:14How cool is that?
17:15I've got to get one of these.
17:16Very cool.
17:17Yeah, so low temperature cooking.
17:19Okay, great.
17:20I mean, the great tempera chefs, that's what they do, right?
17:24I think we make a...
17:25Sometimes down to 160.
17:26Yeah, I've seen them cook at sort of 140 even.
17:30Amazing.
17:30And sometimes they go very high as well.
17:32It's just, we stress too much about oil temperature, I think, when it comes to deep frying.
17:36It's not really a rule that cooking at high temperature seals the outside so it's less
17:41oily.
17:41Right.
17:42It really isn't.
17:44It's basically, a tempura chef once told me, that tempura is a steamed food.
17:50Mm.
17:51Because what you're doing is you're crisping the outside, sure.
17:53Yeah.
17:54But what you actually have to pay most attention to is not overcooking the inside.
17:58Yeah.
17:59I've seen a sweet potato cooked at, you know, 130, 140.
18:02Amazing.
18:02I once saw a tempura chef batter his finger and put it into the oil.
18:08That was weird.
18:10Please don't do that here.
18:11No.
18:14I'm not sure our insurance covers it, but that is looking spectacular in there.
18:17It looks great.
18:20Christopher.
18:21Hey.
18:21They look spectacular.
18:22What pastry are you using there?
18:24It's a sweet short crust with a bit of cocoa in there.
18:27Uh-huh.
18:27But you know when you use cocoa, it kind of makes it hard to roll.
18:30Have you ever had that?
18:31Yes.
18:31Because I really struggle when I put cocoa into short crust because the cocoa, it acts like
18:39a flour.
18:39Like it does absorb an awful lot of liquid there.
18:42So I get all my measurements all messed up.
18:44But you can't substitute cocoa for flour as evenly, can you?
18:47Oh.
18:48I don't know.
18:49It's about a fifth.
18:51A fifth.
18:51Okay.
18:52Yeah.
18:52Look, a little bit more egg yolk I find helps.
18:54Oh, that's good.
18:55That's a good tip.
18:56Always go for a recipe.
18:57Yeah.
18:58You need something tested.
18:59Pastry is a little different.
19:00You need to be quite exact.
19:02The things that you do with pastry are firstly very Australian.
19:05Yeah.
19:06Very innovative.
19:07And I always find, like, I don't know what to expect when you cook.
19:11And I see that you have here liquid smoke.
19:14What's happening with that?
19:15Yeah.
19:16Look, we make a paper bark cake, a cake called paper bark, and it's got smoked chocolate
19:21ganache back at hearth.
19:23That one, we actually get a smoker and get the ganache in the smoker.
19:27But here, because, you know, I couldn't bring my smoker, I've just got a little bit of this
19:30liquid smoke.
19:31I'm just going to add, say, six drops.
19:33But you've got to be really careful again.
19:34Less is more.
19:35So this is kind of like the easier at home version of the smoked chocolate ganache.
19:40It's the ganache that we're adding some liquid smoke to.
19:42That's very, very cool.
19:43I might just give that a little taste.
19:44Make sure it's on point.
19:46And can I say that the paper bark cake that you make, the first time I tried that, I was
19:50just like, I've never tasted anything like that before in patisserie.
19:53The idea was it'd be the aroma of walking through the bush on a bushwalk in a cake.
19:58That's exactly what it is.
20:00I cannot wait to try all this salt and pepper goodness after the break.
20:02And I'll tell you why salt and pepper are paired together.
20:14Welcome back to the cook-up's love letter to salt and pepper.
20:18Christopher Tay and Richard Tonietti are putting the finishing touches on their recipes.
20:22Christopher, how's it looking?
20:23I'm ready.
20:24Fabulous.
20:25And Richard, this salt and pepper squid looks brilliant.
20:27Well, let's see how it turns out.
20:30I'm rather daunted by a certain presence here, but there you go.
20:35Oh, and you've fried some garlic and chilli.
20:37Fried some garlic, yep.
20:38Oh, that's great.
20:39Put it on top.
20:41That's a great tip, actually.
20:42You know, frying it in the same oil so you don't have to stir-fry everything together.
20:45And with one of those things.
20:47Yeah, okay.
20:47So you just hold it, some coriander, because you have to have green.
20:52And then a little sprinkle again of that.
20:54Tiny little bit.
20:54Extra.
20:55It's always hard to know if you've got the right balance with the salt and pepper mix.
20:59And then this secret ingredient.
21:01Are you a fan?
21:02I'm a big fan.
21:04It's got a wonderful kind of citrusy part to it as well.
21:07Red peppers.
21:08So that's a tiny bit.
21:09Oh, yum.
21:10I cannot wait to try this.
21:13Christopher.
21:14Hey.
21:14What's happening?
21:15Oh.
21:16They're done.
21:16So the ganache is kind of set.
21:18I've set it in the fridge.
21:19You need to get it kind of solid, but it is a lava-like thing.
21:22But just to get that gloss back, we're just going to...
21:25Oh, that's an awesome tip.
21:26Yeah.
21:26I've literally never seen that.
21:28Oh, just very carefully.
21:30You don't want to set anything on fire.
21:31And that brings the gloss back to it.
21:33Yeah.
21:33That's so good.
21:35Oh, and then to garnish, to bring that kind of native flavour, this is salt and pepper mix.
21:43Yeah.
21:43Mountain pepper.
21:44Tasmanian mountain pepper.
21:45So if you smell it, it's got almost like a cinnamon to it.
21:49It really is.
21:50Yeah.
21:50But then the palate of it is actually really sharp.
21:53It's really painful in some ways, to be honest.
21:57Yeah.
21:58Oh, this is so good, Christopher.
21:59I cannot wait to try this.
22:01Chocolate tart with salted caramel and salt and pepper squid and prawns.
22:04Richard, this squid is kind of similar to a Japanese style called issobe age, which means
22:19like a rocky shore tempura or something.
22:22I love the texture that's in the batter.
22:24I'm going to use my hands.
22:26That is delicious.
22:27That's absolutely delicious.
22:30Well, I'm in awe of that compliment.
22:32It's really nice.
22:33Nice spice there.
22:34It's really nice.
22:36I mean, I used to just roll it in flour.
22:38Mm.
22:38But I thought I'd develop it a bit, but it's under construction.
22:44I think it's already at completion.
22:46That is absolutely delicious.
22:48Okay, Christopher, I don't even know what to call it anymore, but I have a thing where
22:53I always have to cut things in half, so.
22:56Oh, look at that.
22:56Wonderful.
22:57That's actually quite pretty.
22:59Isn't it?
23:00Amazing.
23:00Isn't it?
23:00Yeah.
23:01Incredible.
23:02I'm going to pick one up and eat it.
23:03I don't want you to eat this.
23:03It's quite rich, so you probably won't be able to eat the whole thing.
23:06No.
23:06Oh, my.
23:08Mm.
23:09That's amazing.
23:10Mm-hmm.
23:12Phenomenal.
23:13Functious.
23:13Wow.
23:15Tonight, we have an Ask Adam question from Justin from Switzerland.
23:18Hey, Adam.
23:19My name is Justin, and I've always wondered why salt and pepper are paired together.
23:25Can you tell me why?
23:27Justin, that is an absolutely brilliant question, and it kind of has two answers.
23:33One is biological, and one is social.
23:36Firstly, biologically, pepper provides what we call in the trade chemical irritation.
23:42So it doesn't sound great, but it's a taste of chemical irritation that human beings evolutionarily find interesting.
23:49As omnivores in the wild, we would go out, and we have to try new things.
23:53We have to actually enjoy this slight bit of irritation that we get of trying something new,
23:57and that's how humans have been able to successfully populate every corner of the planet, because we don't just eat one thing.
24:04We eat lots of things, and the taste that you get from something like pepper or chili or olive oil, which has that slight irritation to it, is actually very pleasant to us.
24:11So that's why we search it out.
24:13The second part of that question is probably more interesting because it's more social, because pepper was the spice.
24:19We talk about the spice trade that sort of created the global economy.
24:24It was really the pepper trade.
24:25It was all about pepper.
24:26They brought nutmeg and cinnamon and all those other things, but the main deal was pepper.
24:32And that spice trade essentially created the modern global economy, and more importantly, it didn't change.
24:39We're still living in that globalised economy that was created by the spice trade, so we still put pepper on everything, and that's the very simple reason why.
24:45Great question, Justin. Thank you.
24:46Richard, Christopher, thank you so much for joining me.
24:48I feel like I've tried some very new things today from some very basic ingredients.
24:52Yeah, that was delicious. Well done.
24:54Oh, this was extraordinary.
24:57Thank you for having me.
24:58Salt and pepper are used to season for a reason.
25:01In some ways, they quite literally make the world go round.
25:04If you want more of The Cook Up and more delicious food ideas, head to SBS On Demand.
25:07I'm Adam Liao. Thanks for watching The Cook Up.
25:08I'll see you next time.
25:10I'll see you next time.
25:27Take care.
25:27Bye-bye.
25:29Bye-bye.
25:30Bye-bye.
25:31Bye-bye.
25:32Bye-bye.
25:35Bye-bye.
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