- 6/4/2025
Georgetown Researcher Badar Khan Suri discusses his two-month detainment by ICE at an event in Washington, D.C.
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00:00:00to inhibit the the program in any way but they're doing their jobs as well so
00:00:07again please join me in welcoming Dr. Varahan Suri as well as Nadir Hashimi
00:00:14thank you so much thank you everyone for coming my name is Nadir Hashimi I teach
00:00:26at Georgetown University welcome to our public conversation with Barahan Suri
00:00:32our postdoctoral fellow at Georgetown University and a former US political
00:00:39prisoner on March the 17th Barahan Suri was arrested outside of his home in
00:00:45Arlington Virginia and taken to the Prairieland ice detention facility in
00:00:52Alvarado Texas his case is a parallel case to that of Mahmoud Khalil at
00:00:58Columbia Rumeisa Ozturk at Tufts Ali Darudi in Alabama and several other cases on
00:01:05May the 14th he was released from detention and now he is back reunited
00:01:12with his family but you should all know that the Trump administration is still
00:01:16pursuing an immigration case where they seek his deportation on the grounds that
00:01:21his presence here in the United States poses a grave and enduring and dire
00:01:27threat to the foreign policy of the United States of America tonight we're
00:01:32here to hear his story to hear the details of his ordeal before I begin and
00:01:37ask him the first question I just want to talk about the importance of butter
00:01:41Khan Suri's case because they're connected in three overlapping ways number
00:01:47one this is a case of someone whose civil rights and whose human rights have
00:01:52been grossly violated by the United States number two his case is directly
00:01:57connected to the authoritarian transition that is underway in this country as we
00:02:03speak by the Trump administration and number and the third reason is that you
00:02:09know this is this is a case that's directly connected to the ongoing and
00:02:13escalating genocide in Gaza backed by the United States government so for all
00:02:19those three reasons butter Khan Suri's case profoundly matters it's a huge honor
00:02:26for me personally to have him here to speak to an audience to tell his story and so I
00:02:32want to begin by thanking butter for being with us tonight and the first
00:02:36question that I have butter is I want you to take us back to March the 17th that
00:02:43fateful night when you were arrested tell us what happened to you in as much
00:02:48detail as you want to on that important day thank you thank you for having me and
00:02:54good evening everyone it's a pleasure to sit freely with you there was a time I
00:03:00I wasn't free and it's still those freer still some part of me is with those fear
00:03:07with that audio so March the 17th it was Monday Monday used to be in those days very
00:03:14special to me I used to teach my class on Mondays it was my first course first time
00:03:22as a teacher I was teaching teaching something very important on majoritarianism and minority rights
00:03:28it was on South Asia but it's the same thing everywhere I hope I am audible so it was a beautiful day
00:03:40first I like it springs a lot because the way trees were changing the color I would always see
00:03:46because I am here from more than two years now when this thing is getting pink now when it will
00:03:54get red I was waiting for some on our Georgetown bus stop to turn purple and I would think that I will
00:04:04bring my kids and put them in this spot will have wonderful pictures with them and then I thought that I will
00:04:11go for cherry blossom last time it was in Ramadan and this time also it was in Ramadan but Ramadan would
00:04:19be ending by say in those time March 30th or 31st and then I would have to chance with my kids to go to
00:04:28cherry blossom so it was a beautiful day it was a beautiful class with my students and everything
00:04:36then I was fasting it was Ramadan so after my class I was tired I took some time I sat there for half an
00:04:47hour all by myself later my some colleagues told me there there were some suspicious people sitting
00:04:58outside of my class and they waited for me for a very long time and because they thought that I left
00:05:04because I didn't come out of my class for good time they were not able to arrest me or kidnap me there
00:05:10they would have done that there so maybe they were following me or whatever then I was hungry I was
00:05:19waiting for sunset so that I can break my fast I quickly prayed and then I went to my community place
00:05:25where everyone was there for breaking the fast I sat with them discussed tough times and then had a great
00:05:37Turkish meal was missing my kids everybody was asking where is my son everyone is found of him and then I
00:05:45promised them next day I'll be bringing him and then I left the place around nine I took nine ten shuttle and
00:05:52then I and that in those days as father of my kids my only concern was what we are eating in the our pre-dawn meal as
00:06:05so and what will my kids have for their breakfast for their school with those thoughts I was moving towards my
00:06:14apartment then everything changed by 920 or 925 when I reached my apartment sorry I saw this something
00:06:26strange of oldish black car was not driving in a perfect way I stopped it was trying as if it was trying
00:06:37to hit me I stopped for some time I said man what is this guy doing and then again I just moved those
00:06:44seconds were moving very slow at that moment that was only 50 meters and then all of a sudden when I was
00:06:53about to turn towards my building gate this car which was driving dangerously till now someone blocked me
00:07:03opened the gate on me and I saw a guy masked jumped out of this car and and then he said are you brother
00:07:15I was shocked I mean this guy who was driving so badly how he knows my name he was masked he was not
00:07:25wearing any kind of wearing any kind of uniform no badges nothing he looked like a proper militia guy
00:07:32how he knows my name I said I was like petrified at that moment all I could say was yeah he said you are
00:07:42under arrest I mean I said what is he saying how can he say what he's saying who who is he and what I was just
00:07:53stuck with what and why what and why why he's saying so what is he saying all I could do at the
00:08:00time after my what and why he just said me just be there and and be there I was there and then I
00:08:08realized that I should I have a phone why not I try maybe he will not allow me but why not I try to call
00:08:14my wife that hey this is happening so I just call my wife thankfully he didn't see or he allowed or
00:08:21whatever I was able to talk to my wife that please come some people are taking me she was not able to
00:08:29understand what I was saying but then I repeated and thankfully she came and when she came he saw me
00:08:36surrounded by these masked agents and and answering nothing and then she also asked who are you what
00:08:44are you doing why are you doing this and all they said that his student visa is revoked I got a small
00:08:51hope I said maybe he's confused I'm not a student I should say that I'm not a student I'm a researcher a
00:08:57professor I just came teaching students but he said it's the same thing it's the same thing you are you
00:09:04are a student I said okay then I quickly asked my wife to bring my passport and bring my my document
00:09:10DS-2019 to prove him that I'm not maybe he is still confused and she brought and when she brought it
00:09:16they already handcuffed me and put me maybe put me or were putting me in this same black unmarked car
00:09:26and they didn't let my wife give my my passport and my DS-2019 form to me and they took it and then
00:09:37we moved I was still in big shock I was devastated and I knew nothing I was like numb and then as they
00:09:48moved they start talking I was also asking what is happening why I doing this after student visa revoking
00:09:55thing they said someone very high at the secretary of state's office doesn't want you here I said
00:10:04okay well I mean why would secretary of state and all this about me who am I and they said we will
00:10:11deport you I said what this was shock after shock after shock after shock I mean deport me all I could
00:10:20ask in a very insensible way was when he said now today as I said it was shock after shock
00:10:28okay then I was again numb for some time and then I said will my family my wife won't know where I'm
00:10:38going what you are doing and they smiled and they say when we will put you in flight we will let her know
00:10:42and then I sat quiet I said who these people are why I mean saying why they are doing this I was not
00:10:50able to understand what wrong I did I just was a regular day taught came back fasting from long time
00:10:57and a week before I was extremely ill I was not able to even walk I was that ill maybe had COVID or
00:11:05something then they took me they told to my wife that they are taking me to Shantley I was oh no I was
00:11:12able to understand it Shantley deportation airport everything is I can like yeah so they took me to
00:11:22Shantley and then dehumanization is started they asked me to remove my shoes first laces not the shoes
00:11:29the shoes laces and then took me inside and then they finger scan this DNA swab photographs and all this
00:11:37thing and then they those officers mast officers now step aside and civilian clothes person were now doing
00:11:48all those things and there on there they were saying that we know you are not I said what is happening then
00:11:55he said that no we we are not you're not going anywhere and we know you are not a criminal we
00:12:02know everything about you it's just a crazy time they kept on those lines that it's a crazy time and
00:12:07you will get your justice and all this and that then I was good I said but that guy was saying that you
00:12:13are they are deporting me he said no they know nothing that then he showed me some some paper which he
00:12:19generated from the computer that you have a court in Texas in May I said why in Maine why in Texas he
00:12:27said it's just computer I had a relief that time that okay they are not deporting and this guy is
00:12:31saying that I have a court and I'm not a criminal and justice will prevail and I'll be back to my family I
00:12:38I said okay and then he said that this is just computer generated and now the next shock was that now we
00:12:48will take you to three hours drive from here to somewhere farm in Virginia I said why three hours why
00:12:57not here it is a night we don't have a place for you we don't have a bed it's just computer generated and
00:13:03maybe after some days you will be back to your family for sure I was happy with that the good thing he did
00:13:09was he he allowed me to talk to my wife and I said that hey I mean something bad happened but now they are
00:13:16saying that I have a court and they are taking me for this night to farm well and then I will return soon
00:13:21it was I mean I told her everything and then more chains come this time they they put my I was they put
00:13:33the shackles back and now my waist had chains not like this time until now then they took me to this
00:13:42place in farm will the farm will and I'm claustrophobic they put me in a very small car and for the first
00:13:51time in my life I was now shackled and chained and was in a very small car and I don't know what was
00:13:59happening and why was it happening so but we moved it was a very tough tough journey and then we reached
00:14:08farm will and then another shock I the moment we entered inside there were like cells there were
00:14:16people like in chains and and now yeah they just put me in a cell by myself and yeah sorry you guys
00:14:30are eating but I mean there was a I had to use bathroom and there was a camera over me I had only
00:14:37seen these things in movies and it was happening to me for the first time you have to unrest and use that
00:14:43bathroom bathroom under that camera I had to do it I did it and then next thing was I had to
00:14:52sleep on floor and without the blanket for sure and I was telling them that it was like 3 a.m. now I was
00:15:00telling them that I am fasting and I need pre sunset meal around 5 30 or something but that meal never came and I
00:15:09kept on asking and they never give me anything the nurse there she did a TB test to me and she said that
00:15:15oh you will be fine now you will not be in this cell I said they put me in a cell I'm on floor so you will be
00:15:22going to a dorm and things will be fine but then they again came around 6 7 a.m. and took me to another place and
00:15:31yes here in Farmville earlier I was told that when I will reach there I will be allowed to talk to my
00:15:36wife that I am here now but they didn't they didn't hear anything they didn't let me do anything they
00:15:42didn't answer what I was asking them it was as if I'm a dead man and only my soul was there and I was
00:15:48seeing them and they cannot they cannot see anything then they took me again to some other place
00:15:53now this time they put my ankle shackles also on me so third thing came chains this wrist shackles
00:16:04and chains on waist and ankle shackles and those shoes slipping out of your feet without laces and
00:16:12they were just pushing you put you in some car with many people like you and then I was I think
00:16:20somewhere in Richmond and there they put me in a small cell all by myself it was very cold there was
00:16:30not even a space to lay down there and they didn't remove my chains from my the shackles from my ankles
00:16:39and I sat there hungry and then again they came around one maybe and they say
00:16:50let's move I asked them I need to talk to my wife and I need to tell them that I'm fine I'm here and
00:16:57something they didn't reply and then I asked them again that where am I going they would not reply again
00:17:04they said we are not supposed to tell you then just put us in a car and then again it was an hour
00:17:12long drive they stopped to some places and then all of a sudden I saw myself
00:17:19in this car on a tarmac where is where a big plane was parked and my car was there so I realized okay
00:17:26they were all lying it is against they are deporting me right that's why they are not
00:17:30telling everything letting my wife know anything you thought they were sending you back to india yeah
00:17:37because that's when we they just moved me from my home they said that we are deporting you today
00:17:45and the other officer civilian officer said that no no there is this code thing but he also said that
00:17:51when I asked them that why and me he said that it can be pre-poned so he realized that they can
00:17:55pre-pone anything get a I mean do anything because they they were lying they were not letting me talk to
00:18:01my family I even didn't know if I have attorney or anything right so now I was on the stomach and
00:18:10like around three or four they put us in this plane and another shock was that it was a big plane and
00:18:18everyone was in same condition like me chain shackle that's it and the first thing I asked them was
00:18:27I need to use a bathroom so they said later we will let you know and when they let me know
00:18:36and they took me there I was waiting for some time to to unlock means they say you have to use it like
00:18:44this use it or do whatever you want to do or better do it in your trousers we will not open anything
00:18:51and even the door won't close and there was no tissue no water they were having sanitizer that's
00:18:58it that was the only favor they were doing so this were we were totally dehumanized they were treating
00:19:05as if we were animals or something then this plane moved we didn't know where it was going
00:19:11I thought that it was going like maybe for India or maybe not India somewhere
00:19:17there because there were other people as well but for certainly for some deportation
00:19:24there were all Hispanic people around me so they didn't know English but I was not able to talk to
00:19:30them
00:19:31someone said that maybe we are going to Louisiana
00:19:39but authorities never told anything then we landed in Louisiana around evening
00:19:43we landed and then I read that it was some Alexandria staging facility Louisiana
00:19:50we and right at the airport maybe 50 meters from the the star make again we were housed in this big
00:19:58hall where we sat for hours with those chains and everything people were saying we need to go to
00:20:03bathroom please please they said no wait someone said that I'll do it here they said no problem then
00:20:08you will wash everything but they will not let anyone go around night they unlocked us and
00:20:18while doing this they didn't know I was naive and they when they were doing it first they spread my leg
00:20:27I didn't know I did so that they can open and next thing he thought that I had to put my foot up but I
00:20:33didn't know anything so he that guy punched my back of my knee my ligaments pain till today maybe because
00:20:41of that or because of acute malnutrition which I will go through later I cannot I limp when I walk
00:20:48so yeah then at night they put us in this kind of cells where we were logged and I didn't get food I
00:20:57told that I was fasting I didn't have anything in the breakfast I need something they say okay we will
00:21:04do something we will do something they brought it around midnight
00:21:10but I accepted whatever at least I got it at midnight I don't know I was because in extreme
00:21:16tension at least I drank water that was enough for me that time
00:21:20so yeah then we were there for three days I was not able to talk to my wife all the time there was a
00:21:31phone there where you can talk but you need an ID there which they will not give me that ID will I
00:21:38will get that ID ID ultimately when I reach after five days in to Texas so I was not able to talk to
00:21:44my wife but there was an option of free call for 20 seconds I was calling my wife again and again
00:21:51and I was able to hear her but later she told me she never heard my voice so it was extremely frustrating
00:21:57I thought what's happening with her why is she not talking to me who she is with I thought maybe
00:22:02they have taken her and my kids as well so then that uncertainty prevailed I saw people coming
00:22:10from Guantanamo there and they were regular migrants and coming from Guantanamo I was going
00:22:17in deep shock and fear that and they said that we are regular and they keep on changing and maybe you
00:22:23will also go there so that was extremely frustrated that was extremely terrifying somehow I passed the
00:22:30days one one of the day maybe on third day an attorney called me I didn't know him that time and I was
00:22:38scared I whom I am talking to later I realized that he was my attorney and he is my attorney
00:22:45Hassan Ahmed and till that time even they didn't know what will happen they they moved to the courts
00:22:52for sure but nothing had happened till that time then after three days on on 20th they moved me from
00:23:00Louisiana on 21st but on 20th night two guys came from some other detention center and and they were
00:23:08going to New York and then a lady came and told me that you two and me are going to New York then we
00:23:15realized that those people told me that they are going to New York and from there to their home which
00:23:21authorities have told them so I again realized that okay it's the same deportation thing they are sending me to
00:23:28India now finally and because we were at the super deportation facility this Alexandria staging facility
00:23:34is right at the airport the security officer later told me and he as he was shocked to know who am I and
00:23:42he he googled and all and he was shocked that why I was there and he said that this is a super
00:23:47deportation facility in in a week they have deported like 28 flights from that facility
00:23:55so now I was thinking I'm going to my being deported and going to New York but next morning
00:24:01the lady came to me and said no you are going to Texas and only those two guys will go to New York
00:24:07I said maybe they'll do something to me from Texas then by noon a bus came and took me to Texas
00:24:14again I told them that let these people know you're I'm going to Texas that I'm fasting because it's
00:24:24around 2 or 3 p.m. we will be reaching there around 8 p.m. it will be around sunset I would need a meal
00:24:32they told him and but when we reach there I was again put in a cell for six seven hours and
00:24:38and I kept on asking them whenever I have eye contact with those people I would do like this
00:24:45but they will ignore and the first meal two slices and a cheese and two bread slices and a cheese and
00:24:53an apple they gave me around midnight and that place where I was sitting was used as a bathroom
00:24:59it was sinking and I asked them that please let me sit out or let me eat out but they ignored and
00:25:05like that was a dehumanizing experience that I didn't want to eat but I was hungry and I had
00:25:12certain gastric issues that if I don't eat at proper time and I will have gastric pain
00:25:19so I ate I ate but I hide down a bit said that nobody see me and I don't know why I did that I
00:25:27ate that thing and I was there from 8 p.m. and I was there till 3 a.m. and then at 3 a.m.
00:25:33they put me in my this pod where I will be for next seven weeks I think and when they put me
00:25:45in that pod I don't know first I was seeing that there were different kind of uniforms and
00:25:52and there was yellow blue there was orange and then red when I was in cell
00:25:58I like the red one I thought I should get this red one this this looks good because yellow and
00:26:05orange were not good and blue was I didn't like it I got red so when but later I would come to know
00:26:12what red means it is for highest security most dangerous people and when they put me again in
00:26:20that red security pod I was shocked the moment he opened the guard opened the door and first foot
00:26:28I put in I put it back because the inmates start shouting that how many people it was super overcrowded
00:26:36crowded I can see dozens of at least dozen plus people sleeping on floor they said how many people
00:26:42will you bring in there is no space here this and that but they won't care they just pushed me in
00:26:47I even said when they started shouting I said please take me some other place because this
00:26:53regular pod thing was happening for the first time to me after five days otherwise I was
00:26:59all by myself but they pushed me and gone then start people started asking me hey you are in red
00:27:05what you have done I said you all are red they said we are felons we are big criminals what have you
00:27:10done you tell your story I said no I am just a researcher I'm a teacher he said no man you
00:27:17must your teacher you must have raped your students so I was like extremely broken I
00:27:23I was but at one point did you realize that you were arrested because of Donald Trump's crackdown
00:27:34on students and faculty because of their speech on Gaza that you were like Mahmoud Khalil and these
00:27:40other students when did you get clarity that you were caught up in the same story as Mahmoud Khalil
00:27:47and others for exercising your free speech rights when did that picture become clear to you um in in
00:27:54in this process frankly speaking I can say never ever I knew about Mahmoud Khalil's case and
00:28:02I knew he was a student leader I I knew he was they were when they arrested him and I followed the media
00:28:11I knew that he was a student leader who was organizing protests in Columbia University and
00:28:19and Trump administration before coming they were just saying that we will take care of those who
00:28:24were protesting and all so it was just from their playbook they just took for their domestic performance
00:28:30they just took Mahmoud Khalil but I was not able to understand why they took me
00:28:38before they took me they were they were attacked some doxing groups were attacking my wife from from
00:28:45a month and when they realized that she is an American citizen they were shocked and maybe they did a
00:28:52little bit of more research and they were lucky to know that oh still we can punish her she has a
00:28:56husband who is just on a regular visa here and because the officer who took me he also told me that
00:29:04secretary of state and also due to some social media and I asked him that I am very inactive on social
00:29:10media barely I do something like in a year I will do four to four four five times I was not able to
00:29:18understand why they are doing this to me and all I was able to understand was that they are taking me
00:29:24for my color for my religion and because I'm married to an American citizen of Palestinian origin
00:29:32it was her Palestinian heritage for that they were taking me and for sure I am symbolic to Palestinian
00:29:39rights for my I'm I'm a sympathizer to Palestinian inalienable rights so I am palestine I am
00:29:47sympathetic to Palestinian cause and my wife is an American citizen of Palestinian origin I am person
00:29:54of color I am Muslim so I was able to like think that these are the reasons maybe they are doing it
00:30:00and because they kind of if it was all kafkask by the time they literally disappeared me if I can say
00:30:07that I was not able to talk to my wife I don't know if I have attorneys and all one my my future
00:30:13attorney for sure he called me once after a third day in Louisiana and still I we talked only for one
00:30:19minute and I didn't know anything till that time that is my real attorney or what and and and I was
00:30:27seeing lies after lies and I was seeing mockery of rule of law and due process because I was not able to
00:30:35really understand that they could do this to me in United States of America I was thinking that I
00:30:41I heard only about these things in North Korea or Russia or somewhere in Middle East or in
00:30:46in Africa what was happening now here this was really shocking to me so how did you spend your
00:30:53time in this ice detention facility until you were released what was your daily routine like I know one
00:30:59of the things that you told me when I went to visit you was that you only had access to fresh air
00:31:05two hours every week so that must have been tough but could you give us sort of a sense of what your
00:31:10daily routine was like when did they feed you how did you spend your time some some specifics about
00:31:16that would be a value for understanding what happened to you so that was really an ordeal in every sense
00:31:25so first when they put me in as I said it was extremely overcrowded people were there on floors
00:31:31so they put me in a tv room where tv was blaring for exactly 21 hours every day it would be on till 2
00:31:41am and again 5 am it will be on why 5 am because they will serve us breakfast at 4 am someone will
00:31:48come in this dorm and shout ciao because everybody was sleeping they would laugh and there were some
00:31:55young kids who were doing that that job there and they were excited about uh awaking these inmates
00:32:03these dangerous people so they will just shout at 4 am always before 5 am at 4 am at 4 30 am they will
00:32:11shout ciao so breakfast will be like that and and and most of the time they will take us like that
00:32:17to dorm we were like 55 people that dorm was for some 36 people and hardly 10 people will go for
00:32:24breakfast because people were they they go to sleep late and they will whatever food they give us
00:32:30there they give us a small milk as well so if we want to save it and bring us bring that to our dorm
00:32:36they will not allow us to bring that milk to our dorm and sometimes they will give breakfast to us in
00:32:41our dorm and even lunch or dinner most of the time they will give us in our dorm so food they will
00:32:47bring to the dorm but if we carry our milk to use it later for some coffee and thing they will not allow
00:32:53that and and yeah i was in tv room i was on floor for 14 days with other inmates and the food was
00:33:04really scary there were no like i'm an indian i i i love spices but but the food was all blonde it was
00:33:14mashed potatoes a very small amount of beans or or peas or carrot and mostly something a soya patty there
00:33:24was there was never meat only on wednesday they wednesday lunch they will give a small piece of chicken
00:33:30and and yeah and they were very calorie conscious so they will give us white slices two white slices and
00:33:38extremely sugary a cake piece which was in order to have a very rich carbohydrate diet so that
00:33:48everybody can maintain weight and by the way in these seven weeks or eight weeks like i was in this for
00:33:5559 days i lost around around i was 81 kg when they took me i used to like check my weight every day
00:34:05and when i came back and i checked my weight after three four days i was 73 so i lost around 8 kg which
00:34:13is around 15 16 pounds why so because i was not i i realized after when i was eating this thing that
00:34:22something is not good in my body and so i asked them to check my blood and all after a month and when
00:34:28they checked it my my because they were also giving us processed food so my my cholesterol was 273 my
00:34:35triglycerides were 490 my uric acid because my bones were painting my uric acid was 7.5 and my vitamin d
00:34:44was 20. so i was in extremely bad condition and and because of that then i stopped eating carbs and i asked
00:34:51them for a heart healthy diet so they gave me heart healthy diet which was in place of white slices they
00:34:57would give us same food with brown slices so it was really mockery of everything and then for sure
00:35:04we will not go out two hours in a week and and food will be any time the dinner will they will give it
00:35:12around 5 am or 6 am and and they won't care how your health is deteriorating if you have if you have
00:35:21anything to do with your teeth they will not check you before six months by by by by this uh detention
00:35:28centers uh laws that you in order to check your teeth you need to be there for six months i have seen many
00:35:34many people there whose tooth was really moving they have pus and everything and and they won't do
00:35:40anything once they took one poor guy one iraqi guy to they booked an appointment for them to dallas
00:35:46they would never have a doctor there they took booked for him appointment in dallas say april some
00:35:53say april 15th when he reached there they said oh you came an year an year earlier your your appointment
00:36:01is on april 15 2026 but it is 2025 and they brought this man back and they didn't think to take an
00:36:08emergency appointment or something he came with this moving tooth his polar molar tooth back and and there
00:36:15were many like that there were people who were not able to see their eyesight was going bad the food
00:36:22i mean my nails didn't grow i used to trim i remember being a muslim we have to do a special prayer on
00:36:29friday so i will always trim my nails on friday in all these two months i trimmed my nails two times so
00:36:37one month so it was an extreme malnutrition by everything that's the reason my ligaments
00:36:44are in very bad condition and i told about certain blood tests we did yeah and the people were on
00:36:53their own if they are suffering people were on their own if they are having a fist fight inside people
00:36:58were on their own if they are doing whatever they were doing who were the other inmates could you tell
00:37:02us a bit about who these other people were in the same detention facility what were their stories like
00:37:07so first as they were read they should be dangerous people but i didn't find any of them dangerous
00:37:12because they had their their punishment in county jails and this was again a deportation site
00:37:18so they were all there to be either released on bond or win their case or deported ultimately so they
00:37:26were mostly hispanics but also asians also africans and yeah so these people some of them
00:37:35were in jail for 10 years but some of them were there just for mere crossing a red light or for
00:37:44not paying for a ticket or for small things very small things there were there were two 18 year old
00:37:51boys there who they just arrested or them the moment they turned 18 because they had some some
00:37:58they were some day driving a car when they were not 18. so these people i mean most of them maybe all
00:38:06of them were somehow part of this american society as they were men so all of them were married to american
00:38:14citizens all of them had many children all born here and all of them were working hard paying taxes doing
00:38:23everything and now their families are standing in queues for food stamps so i'm so these were those
00:38:32people i mean some people say from southeast asia there there was a guy from southeast asia there were
00:38:36many his family came to united states when his he he was like five six year old and he was not born in laos
00:38:45he was his family was uh fighting with american they were supporting american army and fighting along
00:38:51with american army in vietnam war and because of that american administration gave them asylum so this
00:38:59guy he came here as a dreamer five six year old had some the first generation issue had some problem at
00:39:06his school he went to jail for one or two years when he was 17 or something but after that he was all clean
00:39:14for 23 years he was 43 years old old now and then all of a sudden he was taken by eyes for something he
00:39:23already already already i mean he went to jail for that and he took his punishment and that thing happened
00:39:3123 years back and they put him for deportation there and ultimately he was deported to lao a country he has
00:39:38never seen a country against which his his father and his grandfather fought along with americans and
00:39:46there were many many like like there were vietnamese there and always i i listen some africans would say
00:39:53they will sit sad and they will say and there was a guy from dc there were there were a guy from vermont
00:40:00and they were here from they also came i mean this guy from dc he was from liberia he came when his father
00:40:05was killed and they were given asylum there and they were sit and say that you will see that
00:40:11everyone is either released or given a bond but we the blacks are always deported so these kind of
00:40:20things were happening there the things you told me i want you to tell the audience because i think it's
00:40:24an interesting part of your experience is that on regular uh times throughout your stay in the ice
00:40:31detention facility the ice agents would come in and announce anybody want to self-deport we can
00:40:37facilitate that immediately just raise your hand could you go into the details so every week all so
00:40:43every kind of racial group will have or a regional group will have different ice officers so they were
00:40:49like 10 so some we some stay in a week like every week they will all come all of them as if they were
00:40:55making important announcement but otherwise if concerned person will keep on asking them anything
00:41:02try to meet them try to know what's happening in their case they will never respond but on these specific
00:41:08thing what they want to do is that they will come and announce that anyone who and they will disgracefully
00:41:15say this anyone who wonder want to get uh want to give away their legal rights and want to go home early
00:41:23want to self-deport please sign here and you will go tomorrow and we literally see hispanics will sign and
00:41:30same night or next day they were gone so they will regularly come like this and they were but on the
00:41:37other hand there was a guy from ghana who was there from waiting for his to go his home from six months
00:41:44and he will say i want to pay my ticket i want to go home when will i go home was never allowed i came here
00:41:51and he was still there and he said he was there from six months and this is also a tale of extreme
00:41:58corruption this is also a tale of uh jail industrial complex where journalists should also look into
00:42:06companies like lazal and other who just owns across america many facilities these billion dollar facilities
00:42:14which do not which just grab people kidnap people from the street who are integral part of american
00:42:21society being their wives and their husband and their children being american citizens they will grab
00:42:26them they will keep them for many days they will not let some some of them want to go home and they
00:42:32will not let them go home because they are making money on every bed on every floor space every day
00:42:39they say three hundred dollars maybe every day i heard some when i was there seen in on cnn that
00:42:44that government administration was saying that they they put seventeen thousand dollars per deportation
00:42:50and to get rid of this they are giving thousand dollars to those who want to self-deport so it's extremely
00:42:56corrupt system as well which is playing yeah so i want to give you a chance to respond to the accusations
00:43:05that the trump administration has made against you claiming that you're a threat to american foreign
00:43:10policy they've said that the official reason why you have to be deported is because you're guilty of
00:43:15spreading pro-hamas propaganda and anti-semitism and thus you're a threat to american foreign policy
00:43:22do you want to respond to those charges yeah why not so i totally reject these allegations
00:43:29these are nothing because we were in court the administration and me and in the court honorable
00:43:40judge kept on asking that whatever you are talking on in social media please come and bring some
00:43:49evidence here and they were not able to bring anything honorable judge gave them an extra day again
00:43:56to bring something and they were not able to bring anything so i totally reject these these claims
00:44:01there was nothing there was nothing at all and in fact in fact i will tell you one more thing what i
00:44:07was doing even when i got a chance what i used to do with my students here was mostly i will talk about
00:44:14gandhi to my to my students and when because of gandhi's role on non-violence because of gandhi's
00:44:23role on forgiveness because of gandhi's role in south asia during those mad times of 1947 partition when
00:44:30millions were killed so whenever i get people will find me because i was scared initially and so they
00:44:38will ask me like when they will talk to me they will say hey are you a some kind of philosopher i say
00:44:44no just i'm a teacher and that's it that's why i sound like boring they say no no you sound like some
00:44:50philosopher i mean you are from india do we you sound like gandhi a guy from dc told me this i said no
00:44:59i mean yeah but i i'm extremely proud that you feel that vibe from me and for sure i celebrate gandhi
00:45:06by every mean and because gandhi is what the world needs i equate them i'm not extracting blasphemy but
00:45:16i equate gandhi to modern day prophets and he was there in that space and time but he's forever
00:45:24for his role on this philosophy of non-violence and philosophy of forgiveness
00:45:29so i would when i get a chance i would always teach because those people some of them
00:45:35when they were young were part of gang violence used to use guns and now were suffering so i will
00:45:42tell them that and i saw some of them had extreme anger issues because of the place they were living
00:45:47and the life they lived so i would always say them try to have a control on you try to have
00:45:52try to learn about forgiveness try to be minimalist try to know about non-violence and then
00:45:59and we will keep on talking about the gandhi and ideology there all the time okay um so let's start
00:46:05wrapping it up i want to turn to the audience to ask some questions but given the trauma that you have
00:46:11gone through you must be living in fear of you know what could come next because you're living one
00:46:18day in a country where you thought the rule of law existed you're living by the rules and all of a
00:46:22sudden you're disappeared and you find yourself in an ice detention facility in texas so could you talk
00:46:28about the fears you're feeling today yeah i would be lying if i say that i don't feel the fear and i'm
00:46:36extremely courageous and everybody be courageous i'm as a human like every human and i am father of
00:46:43three kids i have a wife and and i'm a say kind of researcher of of this majoritarianism authoritarianism
00:46:53of minority rights and i know how minority suffer everywhere be jewish minority be it muslims islamophobia
00:47:02anti-semitism or racism of different kind but i know how people suffer so this this fear and after
00:47:11i mean i still believe that this country has rule of law there it was taken from me for some time and
00:47:18because of that rule of law because of that due process which exists i was brought back to my my
00:47:26community my people and and the most of the americans stood by me and they were shocked to know
00:47:35about this ordeal about this cask ordeal i i passed through so there are fear but still i will never bog
00:47:43down i will always say that be courageous i will do every part of mine to show my character and strength
00:47:51and that is the reason i'm speaking on every occasion whoever want to hear from me and i'll keep on doing
00:47:56that and and and one has to be and when you are in in in academia you have certain moral obligations as
00:48:08well when you are teaching your student you need to tell that they have to take certain stand for the
00:48:15betterment of society and for me my torchbearer my role model is always gandhi so always i ask my student
00:48:24in every way to to learn from gandhi because gandhi is the hope and yeah there is fear every time now
00:48:33i step out i feel scared i think that when the government lied and and and kidnapped me the dead of
00:48:41the night without due process and were almost deporting me on march the 20th and they were not able to do
00:48:49so which i realized when i reached texas and for the first time i was able to talk to my lawyers was
00:48:55because a judge put a restraining order that they cannot deport me until i get my case in court and
00:49:03courts will decide so yeah there is fear but there we still have in this tough times moral obligations
00:49:10to talk about uh what we should do to guide our student to guide our children i want this world to
00:49:17be a better place for for gen z and for uh for my children for every children i see in my children
00:49:26every child and i don't want kids to go through what what they what they went through during holocaust or
00:49:33what they are going through in during this genocide in gaza last question that i think everyone wants
00:49:40to know is what comes next for you legally because the trump administration is still trying to deport you
00:49:47there's still a long legal battle that lies ahead and to answer that last question i want to turn the
00:49:54mic over to one of your lawyers who is here tonight hassan ahmed please give it up to hassan because he's
00:50:00responsible for this man's freedom
00:50:15good evening everyone um as dr hashmi said i'm my name is hassan ahmed i'm one of mother's many
00:50:22attorneys one-on-many team uh it definitely is a team effort um i was able to speak with him that
00:50:30two nights or three nights after he was taken and i think it's interesting that i was given no the
00:50:36only reason i was able to speak with him was because i was able to get the cell phone number of the new
00:50:42orleans ice field office director who put me through and was able to get an officer at the alexandria
00:50:48station facility to call me back uh and that's the only way i was able to reach if i hadn't had that
00:50:55connection it wouldn't have been possible it wasn't confidential it wasn't uh a private attorney line
00:51:01i couldn't be assured of any confidentiality so we just spoke in urdu um that was the best we could do
00:51:15he's the one who know what fear is in my head that time
00:51:19um because that was just a short time after but look we are thrilled that dr suri is out of jail
00:51:28um is out of is not no longer incarcerated i had gone down to texas myself for his uh immigration
00:51:35initial immigration court hearing on may the 6th i came a few days before and got to meet him for the
00:51:41first time uh the saturday before his hearing um his legal battles are just getting started there is a
00:51:51long long way to go but at least he gets to fight it outside of a jail cell many people many of whom he
00:52:00referenced his uh co-inmates don't get that opportunity because of the way the system works
00:52:07it's designed to snatch you up break your spirit kill your spirit until you're just ready to just
00:52:14say all right fine just get me the hell out of here and that is the way i've been seeing it i've
00:52:19been practicing immigration law for more than 20 years and it hasn't changed in fact it's gotten worse
00:52:25and companies like la sal corrections or geo group or core civic uh make billions of dollars
00:52:34billions of dollars trading in trafficking i should say in human beings and it needs to stop
00:52:44his his uh court case uh there's an ongoing series of of uh applications that we have in federal court
00:52:51uh in the eastern district of virginia but his immigration court case is ongoing um we were able
00:52:59to successfully get it moved out of texas uh and it is now in uh the annandale virginia immigration court
00:53:06which has jurisdiction over where he lives but make no mistake these the state of the law on on this
00:53:14foreign policy ground is horrible at this stage judges immigration judges have almost no authority
00:53:25to second guess the findings of the secretary of state so marco rubio could chat gpt a letter
00:53:38and say that well and a judge would be able no judge would be able to say hey show your math nobody
00:53:44would be able to say anything as long as it's facially reasonable and it took us a long time but we did
00:53:52finally get uh the rubio determination or so-called determination as we call it um it references three
00:54:02exhibit tabs the government has yet to provide those exhibit tabs to us it's just sort of the preface
00:54:09of the of the of the determination and that's the only thing that's been given to us in court we demanded
00:54:16we demanded to show the arrest warrant for dr suri which by the way was never shown to him and still
00:54:23to this day has not been shown to any one of his attorneys we also asked for proof that the
00:54:32so-called rubio determination was issued in compliance with the law itself immigration nationality act
00:54:41section 237 a4c specifically says that if a determination is made to remove a foreign national
00:54:50based on a foreign policy ground and it's made on a basis that would be constitutionally protected conduct
00:55:00in this case free speech or freedom of association okay those are constitutionally protected activities
00:55:07then not only does the determination have to be facially reasonable but you also have to notify the heads
00:55:15of four different congressional committees okay two on the senate side and two on the house side
00:55:22and then the the the the reason that the secretary of state gives goes from being reasonable it must be
00:55:29now compelling so we asked for proof that those notifications were made to date nothing has been provided
00:55:37nothing and and that's been the case in in many of the similar cases uh like mahmoud khalil and rumeza ozturk
00:55:45we have been pushing both from a a legal standpoint uh from uh from using the courts and also using our
00:55:53contacts in congress pushing legislatively to try to get some transparency but as dr suri said when it came
00:56:00time to file the evidence that they say they had in court they came up with nothing they had nothing
00:56:07nothing nothing whatsoever
00:56:13from here it's going to go out and there's going to be a contested removability hearing
00:56:18we expect to have to appeal that and even if we do win at the contested removability hearing the
00:56:23the government is going to appeal that so this case and the case of mahmoud khalil and rumeza ozturk
00:56:30and uh and everybody else is is going to be headed up for appellate review there's going to be a long
00:56:37way to go there's still a long way to go but i want to say that i'm extremely proud of my client dr suri
00:56:49he is a living embodiment of the principles of gandhi he walks the walk he doesn't just talk the talk
00:57:07and it's something that he told me that i'll never forget on that saturday that i first met him
00:57:11in the detention center in alvarado texas i'm translating but he said i i was who they wanted
00:57:20me to be i kept my head down i had my nose in my books but after they've done this to me why should
00:57:28i be silent so we have time for a few questions and we're going to wrap it up uh in terms of the
00:57:42media i just want the media to know that there's not going to be one-on-one media interviews afterwards
00:57:46you have to contact the aclu virginia if you want to set up an interview with butter on story but since
00:57:51this is a public event we can take a few questions uh and then we'll wrap it up so the floor is open
00:57:58yeah oh negar has her hand up yeah i'm sorry yeah right there there we go
00:58:10hi thank you so much and um it's good to hear from you i think you kind of answered my question
00:58:16at the end but i wanted to ask if you think this would have in the similar cases and also the winning
00:58:24at least partially in the court will have more of a uh an encouraging impact for other people who
00:58:32are active or outspoken because the arrest definitely had a chilling effect on free speech
00:58:37on activism on campuses and everything but do you think these small wins will have a reversal
00:58:44or at least sort of balance that impact and thank you again for being here so the thing is that
00:58:54civil society is extremely important and courts also look at the society what what society demands
00:59:02and if civil society really knows what's what's happening people know what's happening and they
00:59:08know the due process they know their freedom of speech and those things are targeted and it is for
00:59:15their own thing that they want to keep a constitutional democracy or they want to let it sink towards
00:59:22autocracy it's on people to to decide people like me will will do all my bit will will will do will say
00:59:29whatever happened to me will always stand with the with with the marginalized and if it helps american
00:59:37society i'm extremely proud of that okay right here i mean i would say something here that see
00:59:46i come from land of mahatma gandhi and mahatma gandhi belongs to everyone
00:59:51he was preaching only love and forgiveness to people he was shot dead your own martin luther king was
00:59:58preaching civil liberties and everything and he was shot dead ultimately even they will kill me
01:00:03i'm ready for doing that as well but i'll be on this good track thank you go ahead yeah actually
01:00:12i had a question for the lawyer um so you had mentioned uh you've seen for 20 years people going
01:00:19through these prison systems so i'm curious to know how um different or unprecedented is the
01:00:26situation we're seeing now have we seen in uh the previous trump administration or any other
01:00:31administration any sort of similar cases to this we're just kind of randomly snatching off people
01:00:35for their perceived threat to foreign policy or whatever so so this foreign policy ground this
01:00:43section 237 a4c is and this on mass use of it is new and in the past it part of the difficulty that
01:00:53we have as lawyers even to uh to deal with this issue is that there's there's no precedent
01:01:00there's one case from the board of immigration appeals from 1999 that we can rely on and that's
01:01:06what i was telling you where the state of the law is as bad as it is that's the case that actually
01:01:11comes from um which itself grew out of a case uh that was decided by none other than uh marianne trump
01:01:18uh president trump's sister in 1996 and out of the uh third circuit decision
01:01:24um there are a lot of buttons to press and a lot of levers to pull in order to transform our immigration
01:01:33machine into a d our immigration law into a deportation machine and what i've noticed this time
01:01:41is whereas before it was sort of like just bringing a sledgehammer and just you know cracking down
01:01:48everything in trump 1.0 this time they brought a scalpel they knew exactly where to push they knew
01:01:54exactly where to pull and it feels a lot more surgical this time and um as a
01:02:04due process enthusiast it scares me and concerns me a great deal what we're seeing this time around
01:02:10okay okay we have a question back here okay yeah behind you go ahead yeah go ahead thank you sanjeev
01:02:19thanks uh from mr suri and uh the attorney um thank you both so much for sharing your wisdom
01:02:25my question is what would you like to see all of us doing right now you know the people in this room
01:02:31the networks were a part of both with regards to your case other people facing the same situation
01:02:37and then more broadly what what do you want us to be doing hassan you want to take that first and
01:02:43then we'll get butter to weigh in be loud in a word i think our elected officials need to understand that
01:02:55there's a cost to supporting or even remaining silent in the in the face of these policies
01:03:02this administration has been pushing the envelope to try to see what they can get away with
01:03:08and the more silent you are the more silent you are uh the more they're going to take
01:03:16uh i've spent 20 years much of my practice is is uh is in removal defense and and filing asylum cases
01:03:26well documented where how people have to run from tyranny how people have to run from authoritarianism
01:03:32and there's one thing you realize whether you're talking about bukele in el salvador or you were
01:03:38talking about bashar al-assad in syria or you're even talking about uh narandar modi in egypt in in india
01:03:44they all have the same playbook and tyranny looks the same everywhere and when i start to see things
01:03:51here that remind me of things i had to document from cases from my asylum seeking clients that's something
01:04:00that we need to make sure it doesn't happen and it happens quicker than you would think and and that
01:04:08makes it a collective obligation on those of us dr suri is still here on a visa he's in deportation
01:04:15proceedings but yet he speaks what excuse do you and i have thank you
01:04:25i would say small thing but
01:04:28anarchy is what states make out of it similarly societies are what
01:04:33people make out of it so build your society let's take two more questions and then we'll start to wrap
01:04:38it up oh yeah sorry there's a question right here go ahead yeah you mentioned a god punched you on your
01:04:46knee did they regularly get physical with people i don't know this happened once to me so i don't know
01:04:54regular didn't do it regularly normally they come with the paper spray they normally paper spray people
01:05:00because there was a solitary confinement pod in front of our pod so regularly they will all run and
01:05:07bring someone with a paper spray on them last question yeah go ahead thank you so much dr sorry you
01:05:17you've spoken about a lot of dark experiences that you had in detention so i wonder if you could speak
01:05:22about any positive not positive but any hopeful experiences or interactions that you had in detention thank
01:05:29you so kind of i live a dialectical life all the time if there is a suffering i always see something
01:05:37happiness this is how we have to live and there also i was doing everything if there was someone who was
01:05:44into there was this guy adam he used to build houses so when he will make his map i will make my map
01:05:50that this is like indian style of apartment you can do it there was this guy called john he was
01:05:57he said that he was 500 pound when he was he was like raising voice and his wife and he was fighting
01:06:05and suddenly his daughter called police and then his daughter said hey baba run away i call police and
01:06:12they will come and take you so they took him and he lost 300 pounds he said in one month in county jail
01:06:20but i still said that don't eat sugar try to control your weight and once i saw him he just had a bite
01:06:26of this sugar rich cake and he threw it i said what are you doing i said you told me that not to eat sugar
01:06:31so i will tell people to have better so what i would also do that nobody mostly people were not english
01:06:42speakers and although and some of them didn't know their rights so there were some kind of a
01:06:48small clinic there in that we can request certain medicines so i would teach them that say that i have
01:06:54pain here do this blood test of mine i need vitamin d test i need this multivitamin because they were
01:07:00shocked to see that how i was able to get it so i would regularly write for them that i have this
01:07:05uh myopia this and that i was doing i was even literally for at least three four people i was
01:07:13writing uh this uh uh their uh letter to their judges about about their cases because they were not having
01:07:21any any attorney so i was writing letters for them i was living my life they're not any living living but
01:07:29i was doing whatever i can do and i was able to help everyone there by every means possible yeah okay
01:07:41so please give it up for butter khan suri
01:07:50go ahead so let me thank everyone for coming uh let me thank especially of course butter khan for coming
01:07:57under this very you know difficult time for you and your family given that you're still facing
01:08:02deportation you know hearings your courage is inspiring to all of us um so thank you uh for
01:08:08for being here for answering these questions i want to thank also the great people at busboys and poets
01:08:14especially the great andy shalal who wants to say some final words thank you very much for for being
01:08:21here thank you dr sui thank you hassan thank you another i wanted to ask just two simple questions
01:08:26really quick and i don't know if they've been answered already but all of these are individual
01:08:30cases they're very similar right you have you you have mahmud khalil you have uh uh ramesa osterk you have
01:08:37dr suri of course are you guys combining efforts together to try to create some kind of class action
01:08:44thing going on
01:08:48well i wouldn't you call it a class action but uh we are uh absolutely all in touch with each other
01:08:54we're all sharing resources we're all sharing research uh and doing what we can to uh to save
01:09:01resource you know save our resources save our bandwidth uh so that we can put uh our minds where
01:09:06where it's best uh where it's best used so yes we we are is it is it the same the same legal arguments
01:09:12in all of them similar very similar yeah there are there are certain differences because of location
01:09:19so mahmud khalil for example is in um his uh case is in i in louisiana uh you know and uh which is
01:09:28located in the fifth circuit um and we're trying different things so we're trying different things
01:09:34in each decision that comes out and so far they've all been mostly positive um gives us you know a little
01:09:41bit more momentum but like i said the state of the law is so bad on this issue of uh and the burden of
01:09:48proof of the government is well there is no burden of proof of the government really that's really
01:09:52what it comes down to um so we have a long way to go what has to change is the law itself
01:09:59and uh and that's why we need everyone to make as much noise as possible and and the other part i
01:10:04wanted to ask you is about and maybe this is for you now that is the weaponization of anti-semitism
01:10:09anti-semitism has become a dog whistle for white supremacy and oftentimes like for for instance the
01:10:17the attack that happened in boulder colorado with the molotov cocktails the president he never
01:10:24mentioned the word jewish so he only said this is an anti-semitic thing and of course a lot of his
01:10:31people are really don't like jews i mean let's let's be real they're truly anti-semitic but anti-semitic is
01:10:37being used as a weapon to say this is to promote anti-supremacy and so using that kind of threshold
01:10:45to uh to uh to be able to do that um is it how do you how do you deal with that how do you deal with
01:10:53the idea of you know sort of getting beyond that well i mean the first thing you have to do is you
01:10:58have to forcefully state that all of us condemn all forms of bigotry and racism including anti-semitism
01:11:03point number one but i think if you say anti-semitism you're saying anti-white supremacy
01:11:09so i think you have to be careful than to say i condemn anti-semitism you say i condemn hatred
01:11:14against jewish people right it's not as it's not always anti-semitism right you know generally it's
01:11:19under anti-semitism is considered to be anti-jewish bigotry most people understand that but if they
01:11:24don't they should his people don't his people don't well the irony of the trump administration and trump
01:11:29himself claiming he's arresting people like butter khan and mahmoud khalil and clamping down on
01:11:35universities in the name of anti-semitism is that trump himself is one of the biggest anti-semites
01:11:40in the country absolutely so if you don't like a behavior and you want to stop it the first thing
01:11:44you should do is stop promoting it yourself right well you have to redefine you have to redefine anti-semitism
01:11:50and how they're using it and use it as a weapon against them i agree because that's really what needs
01:11:54to happen i totally agree and of course then we have the whole question of how israel and netanyahu
01:11:59are deliberately using anti-semitism to justify this genocide absolutely completely distorting
01:12:05sort of what's going on here and using it as a shield to justify this you know grotesque moral
01:12:12obscenity that's ongoing in gaza as everyone knows and is getting worse so you know i think one has to
01:12:17be morally consistent here one has to point out the hypocrisy and the cynical manipulation of these
01:12:23claims that are being used uh to justify these authoritarian policies and i want to thank you andy once
01:12:28again for giving us an opportunity at this bookstore for having these types of discussions and debates
01:12:34thank you everyone for coming
01:12:43all right thank you all for being here just if we can make sure that we close out with our servers before
01:12:48leave us here just if we close out with our servers before you exit um
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