'I'm Answering Your Question!': McMahon, Murray Have Tense Exchange Over Civil Rights Case Backlog

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At today's Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) questioned Education Sec. Linda McMahon.

Transcript

00:00Questions? Thank you very much, Chair Capito. Good morning, Secretary McMahon. You know,

00:04President Trump has made clear that he wants to abolish the very department that you lead,

00:10and we know here that you cannot eliminate the Department of Education without an act of

00:14Congress. But I'm afraid that that has not stopped you from preventing the department from actually

00:19doing its job. You have indiscriminately shuttered offices and pushed out half of the department

00:24staff, and under your leadership, we have seen critical research to improve student outcomes

00:30axed overnight, and funding for mental health services and teacher training among a whole lot

00:35abruptly cut off and discontinued. Now, today you come before this committee to request massive funding

00:42cuts that do, in my opinion, nothing to help improve opportunities for students in our public schools

00:48throughout the country. You are proposing to slash Pell grants and much more. Now, you and the

00:55President say this isn't about cutting education funding, but all about, quote, returning education

01:01to the states. But actually, that can be further from the truth, because the reality is this

01:06administration is actually taking unprecedented steps to extort schools and universities and hold

01:13federal funding hostage if they don't conform with your agenda. So it's pretty clear that returning

01:19education to the states actually means letting states and colleges and local communities pick up the

01:25tab. And I just don't believe that's how things should work in America. I don't believe that's good for

01:30students, and I don't believe it's good for our families. Now, having said that, Secretary McMahon, as I

01:36mentioned, you have set out to eliminate nearly half of your department's workforce, and that includes

01:41pushing out the door more than half of the staff at the Office for Civil Rights, the entire staff

01:47responsible for managing grant operations and contract procurement, and employees who actually

01:54prevent students from getting ripped off by predatory colleges. The department cannot do its basic job

02:01to execute the law, given how many staff have been pushed out, and it is our students and our teachers

02:08who will suffer the consequences. So I want to know from you, before you cut that much staff, did you

02:14conduct any analysis to assess whether or not it would degrade support and services for students

02:21in our schools, or how the department would still be able to execute the law after losing so many employees?

02:27Certainly. Excuse me. Good morning. Thank you for that. Yes, we did talk to the department itself.

02:37But did you do an actual analysis?

02:39OCR. What we looked at across was how can we restructure the department so that we can maximize the use of the people who are there.

02:51So what we did was in, like, training manuals and things of that nature to look at it and say, okay,

02:57we can better operate if we focus on... So this was a conversation. You didn't do an actual analysis to determine

03:04what the effects of this would be? No.

03:07So no study was done. They were just fired, and you assumed that it would work?

03:12No. Obviously not. I have been in the private sector and done restructuring before in companies,

03:18and it's painful to do restructuring. It is painful, but normally companies look ahead and say,

03:22what are our goals, and what will be the impact if these employees are gone from this department?

03:28That's why I asked, but you've not done an analysis, and my time is short, so let me continue.

03:33I know Ranking Member Baldwin talked with you about this as well.

03:37You were required by law to submit an operating plan 45 days after enactment of the full year CR,

03:43detailing exactly how you are spending funding Congress provided this year.

03:47You didn't do that. The purported operating plan that you did submit told us virtually nothing

03:53about how you are spending taxpayer dollars right now at this very moment,

03:57and that really raises concerns about when and actually if you're going to get funding

04:02that Congress did provide for FY25 out the door.

04:07For example, your FY26 budget request zeros out dedicated funding for literacy education programs,

04:15and your operating plan for this year describes this funding as unallocated.

04:20So will you allocate the $220 million for literacy programs that Congress appropriated for FY25?

04:29Well, Senator, as I mentioned earlier, we are looking at the unallocated dollars now

04:33to determine which of those programs we can best spend those dollars on,

04:37and I would be happy to get back to you.

04:39And we want to work with Congress on those unallocated dollars to see where they could be spent the best.

04:43Well, what is your plan to make sure that that funding actually gets to the schools and students

04:48who's intended to support? We're running out of time here.

04:50Well, to look at those programs and then to allocate them to the states,

04:55if those programs we believe is the best interest for those students.

04:57Those funds were appropriated by Congress.

04:59Your department was to allocate them,

05:02and it really looks to me like the department is illegally impounding funding

05:06that would help our students succeed with plans that don't exist

05:09and just day after day going by here, and that's our concern.

05:12Well, let us work more with you as we update those allocations, as we did before.

05:17When do you plan to have those funds out by?

05:19Well, the funds that we are approving will go out in this year.

05:25Like in this next month or?

05:27In the fiscal year.

05:29You're running out of time, so we need to see what the plan is, if you could provide that.

05:33Yes.

05:33Secretary McMahon, the administration says that one of its priorities

05:40is tackling anti-Semitism in our schools.

05:43That's correct, right?

05:44Correct.

05:45Well, the Office of Civil Rights at your department takes the leading role

05:49in preventing anti-Semitism and enforcing our nation's civil rights law.

05:53It is really an important mission.

05:55But as you hopefully know, that office is underwater.

05:58What is the current backlog at OCR?

06:01Can you tell us that?

06:01Well, we inherited about a 20,000 backload from the Biden administration.

06:05But one of the things that we found is some of those cases were like one-page complaints,

06:09and we've really been able to get rid of many of them.

06:11And we are fulfilling.

06:12So what is the current?

06:13Wait, let me, this is important for me to finish.

06:15We absolutely are fulfilling all of our statutory requirements,

06:18have not failed to do any of those.

06:20And not only are we reducing the backload,

06:23but we are keeping up with what's coming in now.

06:25I appreciate that.

06:25Will they reduce staff because we're doing it efficiently?

06:28If you don't have the staff, you can't do them.

06:30Excuse me.

06:32If you have an efficient staff that has changed programs

06:35and you are addressing all of the issues,

06:37then you are being successful.

06:39So I'm answering your question by completely answering it.

06:43Madam Secretary, my question is, what is the current backlog?

06:46The current backlog is probably about, let's see,

06:51I'm looking at my numbers now, about 2,500 cases.

06:542,500.

06:55And how many are you processing per month?

06:58Do you have any sense?

06:59Well, we're catching up with the backlog

07:01and keeping current on the ones that are coming in.

07:04But you don't know how many you're processing every month?

07:06You can't tell us so we can get an idea?

07:07I can get back to you with that.

07:09Would you?

07:09And if you could commit to giving us quarterly reports

07:13so we know whether OCR is simply dismissing these cases

07:17or doing its job.

07:20If you could give us a quarterly report.

07:21I'd be happy to do that.

07:22I can assure you it's doing its job.

07:24Thank you very much.

07:25Thank you, Madam Chair.

07:27Senator Hyde-Smith.

07:29Thank you, Madam Chairman,

07:30and thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here.

07:32And I applaud you for your courage to make changes

07:36and the efficiency that is so needed

07:39that you're addressing that.

07:41You know, we've talked a lot about Pell Grants

07:43for short-term costs.

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