'Did You Check With Your Counsel Or Legal Advisors?': Steny Hoyer Grills Linda McMahon About Closing DoE

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At today's House Appropriations Committee hearing, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) questioned Education Sec. Linda McMahon.

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00:00Thank you very much, Chairman.

00:03And again, as I promised, I came back.

00:09The President instructed you to take all necessary steps

00:13to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education.

00:17Did you check with your counsel or legal advisors

00:23as to whether or not you had authority to accomplish that request?

00:27The President's executive order and his direction to me was to take those steps

00:32to lawfully shut down the Department of Education and to work with Congress to do that.

00:37I understand what you said, but his quote was,

00:40take all necessary steps to facilitate the closure of the Department of Education.

00:46It was not, as you suggest, from the reading of his quote and his executive order,

00:53inclusive of consistent with the law.

00:56But that's your interpretation of what he said?

00:59I would like to look at it again and get back to you,

01:03but I do believe he said to lawfully close down the Department of Education.

01:07At least let me rephrase and say that is clearly his direction to me.

01:11We both know and understand that the Department of Education cannot be closed

01:15unless Congress votes to do that.

01:17So my goal, when I came on board and he asked me how I thought we might could do that,

01:22and I said my goal would be to work with Congress so that we could have transparent programs.

01:26I would like to, at the end of this program that I'm working on,

01:30as we try to bring up our test scores and work with our local states

01:35to bring education back to the states to make sure that states have best practices

01:41and the tools to deliver those best practices.

01:44And so by sharing them with Congress, I would hope that Congress would look at them

01:48and say, you know, eventually I believe that this is going to be in the best interest of our students.

01:53This is not taking away funding.

01:55This is having funding go to the states for, you know, for Title I-A, for IDEA.

02:00That is continuing.

02:01It may flow through in a different tranche.

02:03Okay.

02:04As you know, we have time constraints.

02:05Okay.

02:06I hear you.

02:08Having said that, does the budget that is submitted to the Congress of the United States

02:13for fiscal year 26 include full funding for those programs that the Congress has authorized

02:22and directed be established and carried out?

02:26Well, as you know, Congressman, we are dealing with the skinny budget at this point.

02:32Not all of the programs have been put into the full budget of the president,

02:35but I can tell you that the Title I-A funding and IDEA funding is fully funded under the

02:42.

02:43Let me ask you about that.

02:44I have a table that shows me about $4.3 billion were established for those programs

02:50and are going to be those 18 programs to which I think you refer are going to be put down into a single grant of $2 billion.

03:02Can you tell me, now that's $2.3 billion, that's about a 55%, 60% reduction.

03:13What will not be done, excuse me, is A accurate that we've taken $4.3 down to $2.8, or $2 billion?

03:23Is that accurate?

03:25Well, let's be clear about one thing, though.

03:27The Title I-A funding and IDEA funding is in full.

03:31Correct.

03:32So they're not part of the 18 that is being compressed.

03:35So the 18 programs that you mentioned are really, they will be compressed into $2 billion,

03:43which will operate like a block grant to the states where I think they can best be utilized

03:48by understanding what is needed in the states and the communities.

03:52So when you say we're not, I understand Title I, but almost always when we talk about block granting programs,

04:02we make very, very substantial substantive cuts in the availability of resources for the programs that are covered.

04:10That is my reading of 18 programs going into, which we are now spending $4.3 billion on, down to $2 billion.

04:21It seems to me that is eliminating, very substantially without authority from the Congress,

04:29programs that the Congress has enabled and directed be undertaken for the American people.

04:36Well, let's look at it this way, if we could.

04:39We are eliminating regulations and red tape that a lot of these different grants had with them.

04:46And therefore, they're going to require less compliance with regulations in order to fulfill the mission of those grants.

04:53Madam Secretary.

04:54If I could just finish this one thing.

04:56Sure.

04:57One stat that I think was impressive to me was that 47 cents of every dollar that goes in for these kinds of programs

05:05is spent on regulatory compliance.

05:07We want to get rid of that.

05:08Let the money flow to the states.

05:10And I think we're going to see more money available in the states with less red tape.

05:16My time has expired, but I came here in 81.

05:22President Reagan talked about getting rid of fraud, waste, and abuse.

05:27The deficit was increased by 189% under President Reagan.

05:34Fraud, waste, and abuse, nobody on this panel, on this side and that side, wants to have fraud, waste, and abuse.

05:43We all agree on that.

05:45That is not what you're cutting out when you take 55% or 60% reduction in 18 programs.

05:52I guarantee you.

05:54Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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