'I Strongly Disagree With The President's Proposal': Susan Collins Grills Secretary Linda McMahon On Program Closure

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During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing Tuesday, Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) questioned Education Secretary Linda McMahon on the Trump administration's plan to close the TRIO program.

Transcript

00:00questions. Thank you. And I'll turn to the chair of the full committee, Senator Collins from Maine.

00:06Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Secretary, let me first welcome you to the committee.

00:14I know that you care deeply about our students. We may have different views on how to best achieve

00:23the goals that we share, but I do not question for a moment your deep commitment to education

00:32and our nation's students. I've been very concerned that we've seen a drop in performance by our

00:42students that occurred since the COVID unwise closures and prolonged closures of schools

00:50and continued in the Biden administration, and that's something that should concern us all.

00:59I'd like to turn to the TRIO programs like Upward Bound. That's an issue that you and I have discussed.

01:09From my experience in Maine, I have seen the lives of countless first-generation and low-income students

01:20not only in Maine but across the country who often face barriers to accessing a college education

01:29changed by the TRIO program. I'm actually wearing my Maine TRIO pin today just to emphasize my support

01:39for that program. In fact, three of my own staff members went through the TRIO program

01:47and tell me that they would not have pursued higher education but for the support and confidence

01:55that the TRIO program gave them. The president's budget, unfortunately, in my view, proposes to eliminate

02:05the TRIO programs. And as co-chair of the Congressional TRIO caucus, I strongly disagree with the president's

02:15proposal. Could you explain why the administration has decided that TRIO programs are not worth the

02:25investment that they make in people's lives and the robust bipartisan support that they enjoy due to

02:34their success?

02:38Want me to answer now?

02:39Please. Thank you.

02:41Thank you very much. And I know that these programs are very near and dear to your heart. We have had

02:45at least two pretty lengthy conversations about them.

02:49And TRIO will be funded through the end of, you know, this year. So all those funds, you know,

02:55will go out. But it is not proposed to continue in the 2026 budget.

03:01What we found is the programs, while I absolutely agree that there is some effectiveness of the programs

03:07in many circumstances, these programs were negotiated at very tough terms in that the Department of Education

03:22has no ability to go in and look at the accountability of TRIO programs. It specifically eliminates our ability

03:30to do that. And I just think that we aren't able to see the effectiveness across the board that we would

03:37normally look to see with our federal spending. So while there are, I think, many instances, and I believe

03:45also that Chairman Capito even worked in TRIO for a while in her earlier years, I do think there is

03:53the effectiveness of many programs that I'm just not sure the total expenditure warrants.

04:00I do know, however, that Congress does control the purse strings. And I would sincerely hope

04:08that if you decide with appropriations to continue these programs, that we could work with you to

04:16renegotiate those terms that we feel kind of hamstrung the Department of Education

04:23and not being able to fully understand their accountability. That's a real drawback in these programs.

04:30And I think all of us would agree we want to make sure that anything that we are funding, we can attach

04:35accountabilities to it.

04:37Well, as with the Job Corps program in the Department of Labor, I think the answer is to reform and strengthen

04:46those programs, fix what's wrong, increase accountability, not abolish them. And I look forward

04:55to working with you in that regard. I want to move to another issue, and that is a bill that Senator

05:05Kane and I have introduced called the JOBS Act. What it does is allow students to access federal Pell

05:15grants to pay for shorter term job training programs. A lot of times you can get a license in a trade to

05:26become an electrician or welder, for example, or a certified nursing assistant without going through

05:36a two-year community college program. That may be the best option for some people. It isn't for others.

05:44Would you support the concept of allowing Pell grants to be used for short-term training programs that

05:55result in a license or a certification for a job?

06:00Well, you're really speaking my language, Senator, and thank you very much for that. I wholeheartedly

06:06support these workforce Pell grant options because I've seen in many instances, I mean, we have eight

06:11million open jobs in our country. Our workforce is definitely not being fulfilled by, you know, by the

06:19proper workers. So let's get these young people who don't need a four-year college education into the

06:25workforce sooner. I'm in agreement that even when they're in high school, we should start these

06:31programs, you know, in high school leading into apprenticeship programs. But the workforce

06:36programs, the short-term you're talking about, I also think they can be stacked in credentials

06:41so that you can really propel yourself and to be a stronger economic contributor. So I'm all for those.

06:50Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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