Speaker Johnson Speaks To CNN's Jake Tapper As 'Big Beautiful Bill' Heads To Senate

Forbes Breaking News

On Sunday, Speaker Johnson (R-LA) spoke to CNN's Jake Tapper as the House's budget heads to the Senate.

Transcript

00:00And joining me now is the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson of Louisiana.

00:04Speaker Johnson, thanks so much for joining us. Republican senators have made it clear that they

00:09want to make some changes to the House bill. Senate Majority Leader John Thune told CNN

00:13the Senate's going to write its own bill. Even though they have a larger majority than you do,

00:20what is your message to your colleagues in the Senate?

00:24Thanks, Jake. Great to be with you. Look, I've been very consistent with our colleagues in the

00:28Senate. We worked hand-in-glove with them all through this process, remembering that the

00:32House began this more than a year ago. It was March of last year when we got our committee chairs

00:37together and told them to begin to prepare for this massive reconciliation package. We believed at

00:42that time, more than a year ago, that we would win the White House, the Senate, and the House and have

00:46unified government and have this really once-in-a-generation opportunity to do so much in one piece of

00:51legislation. So I met with the Senate Republicans, all my colleagues over there last week on Tuesday

00:56at their weekly luncheon, and I encourage them, you know, to do their work, of course, as we all

01:01anticipate, but to make as few modifications to this package as possible, because remembering that

01:07we've got to pass it one more time to ratify their changes in the House. And I have a very delicate

01:12balance here, a very delicate equilibrium that we've reached over a long period of time,

01:16and it's best not to meddle with it too much.

01:19Let's talk about what the legislation actually does. I want to play something that you said back

01:23in January about the national debt. The number one threat to our nation right

01:30now is our debt. We take that very seriously. Congress has kicked the can down the road for

01:34decades, and we're out of road. And so we understand that it's our responsibility to fix this.

01:41So there are five different independent scores of this legislation. Every one of them says that it

01:46will increase the deficit somewhere between $3.3 and $4 trillion over the next 10 years. Now,

01:53I get you take issue with the Congressional Budget Office and that they don't have dynamic scoring,

01:58all this, but this is the emergency, emerging consensus among everyone analyzing. They say you're

02:04kicking, not only are you kicking the can down the road, but you're making the problem worse.

02:08You're adding to the debt. Well, I think that is dramatically overstated,

02:14and here's why. Everyone can, those same groups can objectively see and acknowledge that this is the

02:20largest cut in spending in at least 30 years and arguably of all time. We're cutting over $1.5 trillion

02:27in federal spending while we check all the boxes and bring about a pro-growth economy. And the CBO has

02:33been panned because, as you said, they don't do dynamic scoring. What that means is they don't

02:38account for the growth that will be fostered by all the policies that are in this big piece of

02:44legislation. This is not theoretical, Jake. Just remember the last Trump administration. After

02:50the first two years, we brought about the greatest economy in the history of the world, not just the

02:54U.S. The growth was off the charts. It was an average of about 3% of growth in GDP. Why? Because we cut

03:00taxes and we cut regulations. We're doing the same thing this time around, but on steroids. This is a

03:06much larger package, a much more robust package with all these features that will really get the

03:11economy going because wages will rise. Job creators, entrepreneurs, risk-takers will have more ability to

03:17expand their businesses. U.S. manufacturing onshore is being incentivized. All these things will work

03:23together to make the economy grow faster than many of these projections are putting forth. So we're not

03:30buying it. We'll see what happens, and we have the evidence to prove it from the past.

03:34So the CBO doesn't get a vote, but my next guest, Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin does,

03:39and he wrote in The Wall Street Journal, quote, the one big, beautiful bill will almost certainly

03:43add to our deficits and debt, and he even called the bill the Titanic. What do you say to him?

03:50Look, I love Ron Johnson. He's a dear friend, and he and I agree on our philosophy. We're limited

03:55government conservatives. We want to limit the size and scope of the government and make

03:59it work more efficiently and effectively. My response to him, and we've spoken about this

04:04over recent months, is that we're doing the best we can with the vote numbers that we have. In other

04:09words, we've got to turn this aircraft carrier. You don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime. It

04:14takes a mile of open ocean to do it, and it took us decades to get in this financial situation.

04:19We can't just flip a switch and get out of it overnight. One of the people that my friend Ron

04:24Johnson really respects is Russ Vogt, who directs the Office of Management and Budget, and Russ is a

04:29big champion for this piece of legislation. He calls it historic, and he's a fiscal hawk, and so am I.

04:35So we're doing as much as we can, and I just encourage Ron to remember, you know, in our, in the House,

04:40we have 220 Republicans, a wide range of perspectives and a wide range of districts represented,

04:46and I've got to get to 217 votes to get this thing over the line. So as much as we can in as big

04:52increment as we can, I think we've achieved that here, and I just want them to remember that we've

04:57got to deal within the realm of what's possible. So in addition to people like Senator Johnson,

05:02who think this bill doesn't do enough to, to cut spending, you're going to have to convince people

05:07like Susan Collins of Maine and Josh Hawley of Missouri, who are worried about cuts that this bill

05:13proposes. President Trump repeatedly insisted he would not touch Medicaid, and that Americans

05:18would not lose their insurance. Here's what he said just five days ago.

05:23We're not changing Medicaid, and we're not changing Medicare, and we're not changing Social Security.

05:29Can you guarantee that your voters, your support of the new election, your working-class voters,

05:34will not lose health insurance under this bill?

05:37Oh, there will lose health insurance?

05:38The CBO found that nearly 8 million Americans will, in fact, lose their insurance coverage

05:43because of the changes this bill makes to Medicaid. So how do you reconcile that with what President

05:48Trump said?

05:51It's directly in line with what the president said. I've said the same. We are not cutting Medicaid

05:57in this package. There's a lot of misinformation out there about this, Jake. The numbers of Americans

06:03who are affected are those that are entwined in our work to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.

06:08And what do I mean by that? You've got more than 1.4 million illegal aliens on Medicaid.

06:14Medicaid is not intended for non-U.S. citizens. It's intended for the most vulnerable populations

06:18of Americans, which is pregnant women and young single mothers, the disabled, the elderly.

06:23They are protected in what we're doing because we're preserving the resources for those who need it

06:28most. You're talking about 4.8 million able-bodied workers, young men, for example,

06:33who are on Medicaid and not working. They are choosing not to work when they can.

06:37That is called fraud. They are cheating the system. When you root out those kinds of abuses,

06:42you save the resources that are so desperately needed by the people who deserve it and need it most.

06:48That's what we're doing. And that's why this is a... The morality of what we're doing here is

06:52precisely right. And it comports with all the public opinion polls. When people ask whether young

06:58men, for example, who are able-bodied and have no dependents should be working,

07:01everybody says yes. And that's what our package does. So these estimates that you're hearing

07:06are accurate, but it's dealing with those numbers of people in the population. And that's going to

07:12preserve the program and strengthen it for those who need it most.

07:15So 1.4 million people in your home state of Louisiana are on Medicaid. More than 800,000

07:22receive SNAP benefits, also known as food stamps. Is it your contention that if any of those

07:29Louisianans lose their benefits, it's because they shouldn't have been receiving them because

07:33they were committing waste fraud or abuse?

07:38Yeah. Look, my district, as every district in America, has people who are on the program who

07:42shouldn't. And when you're talking about... I keep using this example, a young, able-bodied

07:47man with no dependents, there's no reason he should not be working. We are the party about...

07:52that supports human dignity. And we find purpose and dignity in our work. It's good for the

07:56individuals involved. It's good for their community. It's good for society at large.

08:00When you're talking about work requirements, by the way, it's very flexible. It just means that

08:04you either work or you volunteer, do something meaningful in your community, or you're in a

08:09job or work training program. 20 hours a week. I mean, this is not some huge demand. If you're

08:15going to be on the public wagon, you have to do something to help pull it, if you're able.

08:19And again, Jake, the purpose of this is to preserve these very necessary, very important safety net

08:25programs for the people who actually need and deserve them, and not those who are gaming the system.

08:30And I think I'll go into any town hall anywhere in America, my district or otherwise, and explain

08:34this, and everyone nods in agreement and understands it. So the Democrats are trying to twist the facts.

08:39They're trying to put out misinformation because they're going to vote against this, and there's

08:44no way to defend it. What it means is they're going to be voting for more fraud, waste, and abuse

08:49instead of the elimination of it, which is what our package does. It's not just Democrats, though,

08:53right? I mean, there are voices in MAGA world sounding the alarm that cuts to Medicaid could really

08:58impact Trump's own supporters. Take a listen.

09:03Medicaid, you've got to be careful because a lot of MAGA is on Medicaid. I'm telling you,

09:06if you don't think so, you are dead wrong. Just can't take a Medex to it, although I would love to.

09:13This is real Medicaid benefit cuts. I can't support that. No Republican should support that.

09:17We're the party of the working class, Mono. We need to act like it.

09:20That was Steve Bannon and Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri. What is your response to them?

09:25Yeah, look, I don't disagree with that. Of course, there's lots of people on Medicaid and in our

09:32party and in others. But again, if they look at the final package and the details of what has come

09:38through the House, I think we reached the right point. And, Jake, it also brings out the very

09:42important point that we're trying to do this on a very aggressive timetable. The reason I tried to get

09:47this done, and we did get it done, before Memorial Day and send it to the Senate,

09:51and so the president could be signing this into law by Independence Day on July 4th.

09:55Why is that so important? Because we've got to get relief to the American people,

09:58and then we also need to, for political purposes, show, give a lot of time,

10:02enough time for everyone to see that this package actually is what we say. It's going to help the

10:07country. It's going to help the economy. It's going to help all boats to rise, just as we did

10:12after the first two years of the first Trump administration. And so we're anxious to get

10:16this signed into law so people feel it and see it before that midterm election. And they understand

10:20it is the Republicans who are doing the best for hardworking Americans, low-income families,

10:25and everyone who deserves a better shot. I want to ask you about something else.

10:29President Trump held a closed-door event Thursday night for top investors in his private cryptocurrency.

10:35We do not know who was there. The list has not been released. We do not know how much of the

10:40money came from outside the country. The president has, of course, a huge role

10:45to play when it comes to regulation, regulating crypto. I really have a difficult time imagining

10:50that if this was a Democratic president doing the exact same thing, you wouldn't be outraged.

10:57Well, look, I don't know anything about the dinner. I was a little busy this past week,

11:00as you know, getting the reconciliation package over the line. And so I'm not going to comment on

11:05something I haven't even heard about. I'm not sure who was there or what the purpose was. But I'll say this,

11:09President Trump is very active. He's very engaged. He's the greatest dealmaker,

11:15one of the greatest dealmakers of all time. He is working on these trade imbalances that we've had

11:20and having tremendous success. We've got over 75 countries now renegotiating their trade agreements

11:25with America. It's going to make it better for all of us, everybody in the country. And he is encouraging

11:30new technologies, crypto and the advancement of AI. He's appointed a czar for the first time.

11:36We have an AI czar in David Sachs, who's an expert in the industry from Silicon Valley.

11:41There's a lot of exciting things happening. The president is trying to encourage that along

11:46as much as he can. And I think the vast majority of the country is applauding those efforts. So

11:50I'm one of them. I think that the result of all this is going to be extraordinary for

11:54everybody in the country.

11:55You oversaw, as Speaker, a congressional investigation into President Biden's

12:00ties to his son Hunter's questionable business dealings to enrich him.

12:06You seem to think it was your responsibility to look into this sort of thing then.

12:10Yeah, Jake, important distinction. The Biden crime family, as they were named, earned that title.

12:20Why? Because they used shell companies, fake LLCs, series of what appeared to be money-laundering

12:26operations. And Hunter Biden, of course, with his difficult past and the corruption in his past,

12:33the family on the public dole or on the president's dole. You know, the president lied about his

12:39involvement in the business dealings, all of that. The evidence just piled up. And by the way,

12:43at the same time, the evidence of his diminished mental capacity, subject of your book, of course,

12:49I wish it had been published a year earlier, because everybody saw it. Everybody saw what was

12:53happening. He used the auto pin. And by the way, there's investigations right now going on in the

12:57House. Jamie Comer and the Oversight Committee will be investigating the use of the auto pin when

13:03the president's mental capacity declined and whether all those things are even legally valid

13:08now, given the obvious fact that he was not the one making the decisions. It's huge implications

13:14from all this. And so I think the American people had reason to doubt. And we had great reason and I

13:20think a responsibility to investigate those things. The difference, of course, is that President Trump

13:24does everything out in the open. He's not trying to hide anything. There's no shell companies or

13:28fake LLCs or fake family businesses. He's putting it out there so everybody can evaluate for themselves.

13:35On the book, I wish the more than 200 people that talked to me and Alex Thompson, my co-author,

13:40after Election Day, I sure wish that they had talked to us a year ago. I agree with you on that.

13:45But on this matter with the crypto, shouldn't we at least just know who was at the dinner? Wouldn't you

13:49want to know that list of people? I guess. I mean, again, I don't know

13:55anything about that dinner. I do know that President Trump is the most transparent president

13:59in the most transparent administration probably in history. He has nothing to hide. And he's out

14:05there trying to advance America's interests. That's what America first policies are all about.

14:08And that's what our big reconciliation bill will deliver for the people. We're really proud of the product.

14:12Mr. Speaker, I know you have a lot of military veterans and Gold Star families in your congressional

14:19district. I know your son is at Annapolis. I wish you a meaningful and peaceful Memorial Day

14:25weekend. Thank you so much for being with us today. Same to you, my friend. God bless.

Category

Transcript

Recommended