- 5/23/2025
Shirley Manson and Butch Vig of Garbage stop by '90s at Noon' with Nicole Alvarez to talk new music, favorite 90s tracks, and more.
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00:00Okay, this is wild. So the 90s at noon, I've got Shirley Manson and Butch Vig in the room at K-Rock.
00:07Family, they're K-Rock family, and we're about to host an entire hour of 90s music that they chose.
00:13So we're going to start with a garbage song that I hear.
00:16Legend has it that this song has something to do with The Clash, and it was written in 30 minutes.
00:22Do you know what song I'm talking about?
00:24Yes, I do. It was written in about 30 minutes, and it started with a loop from The Clash's Train in Vain.
00:31Okay.
00:32So the drum loop you hear at the start, we built the whole song on that.
00:36And we tried to write what we call a groovy bass line, just sort of a repetitive bass line.
00:41And that's basically the core of the song.
00:46And the demos, what I was reading, the demos were when Shirley wasn't an official, official member of Garbage Yet.
00:52She was just, maybe, maybe not. Right?
00:56Yeah, well...
00:57I was illegal.
00:58Yeah, yeah. She would have been deported.
01:02Yeah, Cheryl came over to Madison, took a leap of faith to work with Duke and Steve and me.
01:08And that was one of the first songs that we had some instrumentals to, and she sang.
01:12Actually, it was the second time you came over, because the first time we played some instrumentals for it,
01:18and said, go ahead, sing, make up some lyrics.
01:20And she was like, okay, and it was quite awkward, and wasn't really very fruitful.
01:26And she flew home.
01:26It was a disaster.
01:27It was a disaster.
01:28But then she called us a week later and said, I know what to do with these songs.
01:31So we flew her back.
01:32And she sang Queer and Stupid Girl and Vow were all done, like, in a couple days.
01:37Shirley, when did you find out?
01:38When did you know that you knew what to do with the songs?
01:41Like, what did that mean?
01:42Well, his memory of things are slightly different from mine, as is our collective memories are all over the shop.
01:48But I remember singing Stupid Girl, actually.
01:51But I had got the gig at this point.
01:53I was official.
01:54And we were at Smart Studios in Madison, Wisconsin.
01:57And we were recording Stupid Girl.
02:00And my recollection of it is it took six hours.
02:03And the reason it took six hours is I kept on singing, stupid girl.
02:09And they'd go, no, you need to say stupid girl.
02:13And I'm like, I'm saying stupid girl.
02:16Because my accent was, I'm saying stupid girl.
02:19I'm saying stupid girl.
02:21And they were like, yeah, but stupid girl.
02:23And it went on and on and on for hours.
02:27That's my memory of it.
02:29Okay.
02:29Well, let's hear stupid.
02:30Why don't you introduce it, Shirley, the way that you want to?
02:33Go for it.
02:34This is Garbage's big hit, stupid girl.
02:38On the world's famous K-Rock's 90s at noon.
02:41That's Stupid Girl, Garbage, and Butch Vig and Shirley Manson are here.
02:45I'm Nicole Alvarez.
02:46We were having a great conversation off the air.
02:48And Butch is like, we need to talk about this on the air.
02:50So we're just talking about authenticity.
02:53Because I was telling Shirley sometimes, you know, you're on camera.
02:57And then there's the trolls.
02:59And all they want to do is tell you, you know, what is wrong with you.
03:03But Shirley was saying that the culture, the time for being perfect is over.
03:09I think so.
03:09So take it from there.
03:11Like, let's let him in on what we were talking about a little bit.
03:14I guess I was just talking about how I feel the culture is shifting really fast away from that kind of Kardashian perfection where all of us as human beings felt that we were supposed to be perfectly groomed and only photographed from a certain angle.
03:28And everything had, you know, our nails had to be manicured and this, that, the next thing.
03:31And I feel like that's sort of outdated.
03:33All of a sudden, I just feel a shift in the culture, you know, and young people are seeking something with a bit more authenticity.
03:41I mean, again, I'm not saying I'm right, but that's just how I sort of feel the shift in culture.
03:47Butch is nodding his head yes.
03:49Why are you nodding your head at her?
03:50Well, it seems like culture and music, in fact, life in general, goes in cycles.
03:58And sometimes I find, I think our band Garbage Pipe finds the cycle somewhat agreeable and then it flips over and it's just not fun for a while.
04:09But right now, I just feel like even though, you know, I don't want to get into too many politics today, but there's a lot going on with the current administration that I don't necessarily agree with.
04:18But I feel like there's an upswell, a grown rising of positivity and people sort of trying to take their lives into their own hands, you know, and I think that's a good thing.
04:31And I can start to hear that on some of the new music I've been listening to.
04:35It's like the swell of alternative culture.
04:38Yeah, and usually it's a reaction to how when things get bad, then some really interesting music comes out because a lot of the artists or singers or lyricists just want to talk about the world they live in.
04:47So, yeah, I just feel like despite what's going on, there's a lot of really good things happening right now.
04:53I'm Nicole Alvarez and I'm here with Garbage, Shirley Manson and Butch Vig.
04:57Welcome.
04:58First of all, and thank you.
04:58Did I thank you?
04:59No.
05:00How rude.
05:01Thank you for being here.
05:02Well, thank you.
05:03Thanks for having us.
05:03God, I just like made you sit down and I'm like, we just started talking.
05:06Stop it.
05:06Talking.
05:08You picked this next song and I want to hear what you have to say about it because it's, when I was a little girl, Shirley, I didn't have, I was a teenager, I didn't have, I couldn't relate to a lot of the other teenage girls in my orbit.
05:20And then this band happened upon my world and I was like, oh, these are my people.
05:26Same thing when I heard your voice.
05:28I'm like, that's my, that's my girl.
05:30So I'm going to, I'm just going to say it.
05:33L7.
05:34What do we think of L7?
05:36Oh my God.
05:37What do we, I mean, they're, first of all, Butch produced this next track.
05:41So it's in the family, so to speak.
05:43And we're just back from South America where we played with L7 as a double bill and it was really incredible.
05:50And we go-go danced on stage when they played Pretend We're Dead.
05:54We bum rushed them around on stage and we go-go danced for a song.
05:58It was amazing.
05:59They're amazing people.
06:00Does that mean you're going to go-go dance now, Butch?
06:02Because the song is playing.
06:03No, it's too early in the day.
06:04This is on film.
06:06Okay, I'm going to work on it for you guys.
06:07But for now, we're going to sit back and enjoy these absolute, savage, legendary women.
06:13L7, Pretend We're Dead.
06:14It's the 90s at noon with Garbage on K-Rock.
06:17L7, Pretend We're Dead from Bricks Are Heavy, which Butch Vig produced.
06:21I'm Nicole Alvarez and I'm here with Shirley Manson and Butch Vig.
06:25And we were talking about that band, L7.
06:26And then I'm just going to hand it over to the both of you.
06:29It's important, I think, that they get their moment in the spotlight.
06:31So go for it.
06:32Hell yeah.
06:32I mean, we just came back from South America and L7 were opening for us.
06:37And we were all practically crying when they took the stage and they played a billion and one amazing songs.
06:45And much like Garbage, L7 has sort of been in the wilderness a bit because culture has been so fixated on pop music.
06:54That's kind of what we feel has been sort of in the mainstream is all this decades of pop.
07:00And now I think much like Garbage, we see a whole new generation of young people really turning on to alternative culture, to L7 and giving them the love actually and reverence that they deserve.
07:13Because there's, yeah, they're just this authentic bunch of beasts out there.
07:18Fearless.
07:19Fearless.
07:19With incredible songs and raw power.
07:22And it's, there's, they've changed the world for women like you and me.
07:27Yep, yep, yep.
07:28And for a lot of women like us.
07:30So here's Cell 7.
07:32Butch, I'm going to ask you something.
07:34I was looking at a bunch of your interviews yesterday, you know, just being professional.
07:39And not once do people not ask you about Nirvana.
07:42Do you ever tire of that?
07:46Not really because it's such a huge part of my life.
07:50Garbage wouldn't exist if Nirvana had not happened.
07:53And obviously my career would probably be a lot different if Nirvana had not happened.
07:58There was a time though when Garbage started where no one knew who Shirley was.
08:03They didn't know who Garbage was and we would be doing an interview and I could see the
08:07journalists just getting fidgety like they're garbage.
08:09So you made this record.
08:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:11And they just wanted to get the garbage section over it so they could go, what was Kurt Cobain
08:15like?
08:16You know, and I, after a while I told our publicists, I don't want to talk about Nirvana.
08:22You know, for a couple of years I didn't really say anything in the press.
08:25That makes perfect sense.
08:27Shirley, did that, did being part of that and like wanting to talk about your band and then
08:31watching the press want to push Nirvana, did that ever bug you?
08:37I don't know if bug is the word.
08:39It worried me a wee bit, you know, because the specter of Kurt Cobain and Nirvana and their
08:44legacy, which is enormous, you know, it's historical, it's going to go down, you know,
08:48there's going to be a Marilyn Monroe and a Jimi Hendrix and a Nirvana, you know.
08:51Yeah.
08:51And it concerned me a little because I felt like we were going to get drowned out by that
08:58legacy, you know, because it was so big and powerful.
09:02And so, yeah, I mean, it was frustrating at times because, you know, Kurt Cobain has been
09:08a specter over our career.
09:09As Butch said, it's been there.
09:11But we have survived and somehow managed to negotiate ourselves around that specter.
09:17Yeah.
09:18And I'm very proud of Butch and proud to be in a band with Butch who's had this incredible
09:24experience and with a legendary record that is one of the greatest in rock and roll history.
09:31Yeah.
09:31Well, let's celebrate some Nirvana, shall we?
09:33Yeah.
09:34Indeed, let's do it.
09:35We're going to do Lithium is what we're going to do.
09:36And this is what was chosen.
09:38I don't know who chose it.
09:39I think my boss did.
09:41It's the 90s.
09:41That's okay.
09:42Garbage on K-Rock.
09:43That's okay.
09:44I'm Nicole Alvarez.
09:45I'm here with Butch Vig and Shirley Manson.
09:47What a time I'm having with you two.
09:50I'm watching you rock out to that song, but you're playing the drums and Shirley, you're
09:54like, I just see it in your face.
09:56Like, you're consuming it.
09:57When you go to shows or when you hear songs or no, when you go to shows and you see other
10:04bands live, are you able to just be a fan or are you also a student?
10:09Or like, what is going through your mind when you're anywhere that you're watching music?
10:15Well, if it's good music, I'm a fan and I'm a student.
10:20Okay.
10:20Yes, but you're able to still like just enjoy it separate from like, okay, Butch?
10:25Yeah, the same thing.
10:26If I've had a few glasses of Sauvignon Blanc, I'm probably more of a fan, but I'm constantly
10:32analyzing isn't the right term, but anytime I hear something cool, I file it back in my
10:38brain or I think, darn, I wish I had written that.
10:41Or it's a good idea.
10:42Or it's a good idea.
10:44Maybe we can, something like that could be incorporated into a garbage song or whatever.
10:48I listen to a lot of new music too and I'm always astounded how cool the production is
10:53and I need to do that just to keep my vocabulary fresh, you know?
10:59But also, you said it earlier, you're a nerd and like, you're constantly consuming new ways
11:04of doing everything that you love to do.
11:05I'm a super nerd, yep.
11:07So let's talk about the new garbage record.
11:09Who wants to talk about it first?
11:12Well, that's a broad subject.
11:14It's a broad subject and one thing I read, Shirley, is that, I don't know if this is
11:18accurate or not, but that you were mostly insane when you wrote it.
11:24I don't know if I'd say I was mostly insane.
11:27I had performed at the K-Rock Weenie Roast many years ago now, maybe five years ago, and
11:34I had fallen off stage and hurt myself on the crash barrier and battered my right hip so
11:41badly that it kind of disintegrated on me.
11:44A couple of years ago, we were on tour with Alanis Morissette and all of a sudden I'm like,
11:47oh my God, I can't, I can't walk properly.
11:50What the hell's going on?
11:51And I needed a full hip replacement.
11:53And then a year later, last summer, we were just about to play Wembley Arena in London
11:58and I was so excited about it.
12:00And I had the similar experience on my left hip.
12:02I'm like, oh my God, I'm not again.
12:04And so I was on a lot of pain medication whilst we were making and completing this new record.
12:11And so when, if and when I said I was insane during the making of it, I was dealing with
12:17a lot of pain and pain will drive you out of your mind.
12:20Absolutely.
12:21I also read that, I mean, we're living through some very crazy times, political and otherwise,
12:25but that you chose to stay on the optimistic path.
12:32Yeah, I felt like our previous record, No Gods No Masters, was a really political record.
12:36And I was basically tolling warning bells because I saw basically where society was heading.
12:44And we came to make this new record and it was five years later and the world had gone
12:50to exactly the place I imagined it would be.
12:53And I realised that if I employed the fury from the last record, I would not only go mad,
12:59but it was a redundant approach.
13:01So I felt like we had to come at making the music from a different perspective.
13:06Okay.
13:07So.
13:07We'll be back with more 90s at noon and more talk of new garbage records next.
13:11I was watching an interview with you, Shirley, where you talk about Courtney and you say
13:14she's a woman's woman.
13:16She's a woman that doesn't mind sharing the room with other women.
13:19And there's a lot to be said for that.
13:20And you're one of those women who've kicked the door open for others.
13:24But her in particular, she is, she's a powerhouse.
13:29Yeah, I miss Courtney.
13:30I have to say, I miss everything that she stood for and her wildness and her intelligence
13:36and her, her courage.
13:38You know, she, she has endured so much misogyny and sexism.
13:42It's astounding.
13:42You know, they've, they've, they've basically accused her of killing her own husband.
13:46You know what I mean?
13:46Yeah.
13:46She's like frightful.
13:47Like what she's endured, uh, is pretty astounding.
13:50And she's remarkably fragile in a way.
13:53And also just this incredible, like you said, powerhouse.
13:56And, uh, I know she's got a really good record come in.
14:00Um, it's very exciting.
14:02Has anything that she's ever said in the media shocked you?
14:04Cause she has not held back about, not only about her feelings, but about certain individuals
14:09in the industry, um, that we all know she's never held back and she's been right about
14:15so many of them.
14:16She's always, almost always right about the things she says in public.
14:20People have written her off as crazy, you know, which they often do about women who've
14:24got a very hard opinion, you know, but she's called the shots on a lot of like corrupt men
14:31in particular in the media.
14:32And she's been proven over time to be correct.
14:35And, uh, so she's not as crazy as they try and make her out.
14:37If I had a dollar for every time they called me crazy, Shirley.
14:40Oh yeah.
14:40You and I, we'd be billionaires, baby.
14:43But I used to not like it.
14:44I used to think it was a dirty word and now I'm like, thank you.
14:48I am a witch.
14:49I am a witch.
14:50Thank you very much.
14:50So we're wrapping up with, um, with Butch and Shirley of Garbage.
14:55Thank you so much for doing this.
14:56It was a good time.
14:57I hope you come back, but we're going to play, there's no future in optimism.
15:02So Butch, tell us about the new record.
15:05What stands out for you about making it and go, you have the floor.
15:09Well, it's, uh, our eighth album.
15:12And, um, I think Shirley touched on this a little bit.
15:16You know, it's, it's sort of a stepping stone from No Gods, No Masters, which is our most
15:21political record.
15:21But there's a lot of light and optimism in this record.
15:24Yeah.
15:24And, um, Hope, I think, uh, and the songs are quite, a lot of them are quite cinematic
15:32sounding.
15:33There's some sound design.
15:35Uh, we used a lot of analog synths and there's strings on the day I met God on the last song.
15:42Um, but it's a garbage record.
15:44It sounds like us.
15:45Let All That We Imagine Be Light out next Friday.
15:49Shirley, do you feel this one is different for you in some way?
15:52I think every time you make a record, you want it to be different.
15:56I mean, what's the point in just always making the same record?
15:59You know what I mean?
16:00And I know that the fans a lot rail against the fact that our music sounds very different
16:05from the first record.
16:06But that's what you're supposed to do.
16:08But 30 years on as a, as an artist, I would hope that you're always growing and always
16:12changing.
16:13You would hope.
16:14And you never want to stay the same.
16:15So every time we step up to make a new record, I want it to be different.
16:19And I, I, that's what I strive towards.
16:22You don't, and you shouldn't.
16:23It's just like every day you should strive to be a different, more evolved version of
16:27yourself.
16:28And you shouldn't care that it's making somebody else uncomfortable.
16:31You should always strive to evolve.
16:33And musicians should be allowed to do the same thing.
16:37Are you excited to go on the road for this one?
16:39Will anything be different as far as the tour?
16:41Yeah, I'm excited.
16:42I mean, it's also the longest tour we've done in years.
16:47So it's quite intimidating.
16:50Get ready.
16:50Yeah.
16:51I mean, we basically hit the road on September 1st, and I don't think we come home until
16:54the middle of December.
16:56So it's going to be quite an ordeal, I think.
16:59But we feel like, you know what?
17:01We're all still healthy.
17:03The four of us, all original members, we've enjoyed a 30-year career.
17:07It's kind of extraordinary, and we want to celebrate that.
17:09It's not kind of extraordinary.
17:11It's completely extraordinary.
17:13Completely.
17:13Woo!
17:13Let's hear it for us.
17:14Let's hear it.
17:15But what is your favorite part, by the way, of touring?
17:18Like, is it the tour bus?
17:20No, he hates touring.
17:21I know, I'm totally messing with him.
17:23It's hanging out backstage after sound check with my bandmates, and we sort of have a ritual.
17:28We all kind of relax a little bit, and then we might crack a little tequila or some wine,
17:36but we pace ourselves.
17:38And then Steve, who we call DJ Sloppy, he'll start putting on music, and he's got a really
17:44eclectic style and taste.
17:46So we never know where the set's going to start or what he's going to go into, but it's
17:50fun.
17:51And we like hanging out with each other.
17:53I mean, I think if we didn't, we probably wouldn't be touring, you know?
17:56So it's kind of, it's this little bubble we're in, you know, at the family, we're all getting
18:01ready to go on stage, and that's kind of what's the most fun.
18:04And then performing is great.
18:05It's just the travel that is kind of really a pain in the butt.
18:09Thank you both for being here so much.
18:11We'll see you at Ohana, and then we'll just figure out the rest later, right?
18:14Right on.
18:15You guys can come back anytime you want.
18:17We're going to play Garbage.
18:18There's no future in Optimism.
18:19You want to say bye?
18:20You want to say bye?
18:21Cheerio.
18:22Cheerio, and have a nice day.
18:24And thank you to KROQ for 30 years of support.
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