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- 5/23/2025
The episode of 'To The Point' focuses on the political debate surrounding India's Operation Sindhu against terror hubs in Pakistan. Congress leader Rahul Gandhi has raised questions about the operation and India's foreign policy. The BJP has accused the opposition of playing into Pakistan's hands. The discussion explores the opposition's right to question the government, the need for clarity on certain issues, and the impact of US President Trump's statements on India-Pakistan relations. Additionally, the Supreme Court ruled that maternity leave is an integral component of maternity benefits and reproductive rights. The landmark order came in response to a petition by a Tamil Nadu government teacher denied leave for her third child. While the ruling expands maternity benefits, studies show the 2017 Maternity Benefits Act may have unintentionally hurt women's employment prospects in some cases. The court emphasized that no institution can deprive a woman of her right to maternity leave.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching to the point. I'm Preeti Choudhury. We have two big debates lined up for you first up
00:05Allow me to take you through the headlines
00:10India to take up Pakistan funding with World Bank World Bank to approve
00:1520-billion dollar loan for Pakistan in June India to demand
00:20FATF to put Park in gray list
00:22Oh
00:28Minister Amit Shah hails forces over operations in those success as precision strikes on Pakistan demolished terror house
00:40Revelation in the National Herald case by the Enforcement Directorate ED now names Telangana chief minister
00:48Raven ready Karnataka deputy CM DK Shiv Kumar
00:52Ed says Raven instructed for netas to donate 80 lakhs DKS and brother Suresh allegedly donated two and a half crores
01:05The manas my source sandal deal faces backlash a pror over non Kannada ambassador
01:12big
01:13Kannada group stage protest
01:18You
01:21Trump was his Howard University heats up
01:24Trump's big strike on Harvard University revokes Howard's ability to host international students
01:38All right
01:39The political war of words viewers has clearly escalated where it comes down to operations in door the leader of opposition
01:45In Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi has been launching
01:49Launching a blistering attack on Prime Minister Modi and the government demanding answers on the other hand
01:54You have the BJP going after
01:57The leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi suggesting that he's playing into the hands of Pakistan agenda
02:06Body can assume a
02:09Level a
02:12Garam Sindhu
02:17After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's fiery speech in Bikaner leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi has launched a scathing attack
02:27He asked the Prime Minister why his blood boils only in front of cameras and why he bowed before the US president
02:34Rahul Gandhi
02:37Post three questions to external affairs minister SJ Shankar and claimed that India's foreign policy has collapsed
02:46Sorry, it'll be a Mara. Are you sure yet?
02:49I'm the goddess and a people get a cup of coffee to sorry to die there at our own little people get a cup of coffee. I thought
02:55But I'm deaf. Yeah, I'm rougae
02:57Well, I'm gonna cut a little to Nicole. I'm gonna cut a little zameen gets sad people say Nicola
03:03Trump a gullam again
03:05Yeah, this Trump a gulam a guy get Trump. I'm a button the bar. I'm here pitch
03:10Come Karen get you
03:11caramel co
03:14DG MOB
03:17Or air marshal Bharti GB
03:21Or on say yes, I'll
03:24Have a day's catch-up a stump media name Pooja. Oh no, Nick. Ah
03:30We are in a combat scenario
03:34It is not prudent
03:37For us to answer that question
03:40gara, Mikey bother
03:43or us cabal Rahul Gandhi
03:46Jokey Pakistan's a batch eat Karema. Lacta. I got a vest a key case a
03:52Bharat Kukum Zor kia Jaya, Sena, Oka, Manobar, Tora Jaya
03:56It's got some young meaning it they are pushed a yeah, but I
04:03Get the name fighter plane Bharat Kigiri
04:09Earlier the Congress leader had cited a jayashankar statement to ask why India informed Pakistan about the attack on terror hubs
04:18BGP MP Nishikant Dubey responded to that criticism
04:22Dubey referred to an agreement reached by the Congress supported Chandrashekhar government in Pakistan in
04:281991 in which both nations had decided to exchange information on attacks and mobilization of forces
04:36Forces
05:06Agreement
05:17Yes, I'd apprehend a sign kiawa agreement a agreement peace time ka peace time me
05:24Galat family no, no, they know they should be senile KB to my thal Sena via Sena Jal Sena
05:29Movement say us kebara me sir Pratham
05:32Jo Rahul Gandhi Jee care at a voice such a jayashankar jee nain form kia Pakistan core or a ski pushti could BJP
05:38Karey a just agreement cover a lot there. He will peace time ka agreement a jayashankar jee naeja war like situation T
05:45Tabin form kia tha meanwhile up MP Sanjay Singh took a jibe at Prime Minister Modi and called him Sindhu kasada gar
05:54Moody G
05:55Salesman a Bharat ki Pradhan Mantri naiyya
05:58Up Marjai a up ke naam pe vote mil sakta. Vosco bitch ling
06:03To Pradhan Monty Narendra Modi a nirma minsan hai
06:07Vo mort ke naam pe vo
06:10Hatya ke naam pe vo a tank bagh ke naam pe vo javano ki mouth ke naam pe vote lena jante
06:17To vo Sindhu case of dagar hain Sindhu case salesman hain or
06:23Ye baat aaj unhone sabit ki hai
06:26The war of words between the opposition and government over India Pakistan tensions has been escalating day by day
06:34Congress president Malik Arjun Kargate this week claimed the center is fighting a small war against Pakistan
06:41Congress General Secretary Jai Ram Ramesh called India's diplomatic outreach just a PR exercise
06:48With Piyush Mishra and Mosami Singh bureau report India today
06:56All right at the back of all that politics the questions that we are asking this evening Congress's charges justified or frivolous
07:03Viewers is this playing into Pakistan agenda or is the opposition entitled to ask the questions?
07:09It's asking on the other hand should the government clear the air on certain key
07:13On certain key questions that the Congress continues to pose on the other hand why so much skepticism
07:20about other operations in door and government's intent coming in from the principal opposition party and
07:27ultimately while we are putting out a
07:30united global
07:32diplomatic offensive
07:34Domestically who is winning the operation Sindhu narrative?
07:40Let's take all these questions to our panelists this evening joining me Rajat Sethi political commentator
07:45He's going to be with us in just a short while
07:47Ashutosh author political analyst Mahima Singh national spokesperson Congress Gopal Krishna Agarwal national spokesperson BJP
07:55You know Gopal Krishna Agarwal. I'll come back to this one question that we've been asking in the last couple of days
08:00It is the job of the principal opposition party to ask key pertinent questions of the government. It's doing exactly that
08:08What's the big deal and why can't the government really come clean and answer these questions instead of getting into rhetoric
08:19Opposition has every right to ask questions to the government
08:23But once there is a reply on that questions
08:26they should accept the problem with the leading opposition party and their leaders is they are not accepting that
08:34answers which are being given to by the
08:37Authorities by the
08:39even
08:40Foreign Secretary has given and government resources PIP has also given clarification
08:46that when again and again Raul Nandiji is saying that as Jaishankar Ji has
08:53preempted and given information to
08:56Park, but there has been clarification that it was post the terrorist
09:02Hideouts were attacked. It was after that that information was conveyed that we have not
09:09Attacked the military installation. We have not attacked the civilian, but they are not accepting
09:14the issue is they are not accepting the army as Air Force has clarified about the
09:21fighter planes
09:22their decision where the attacks has been taken the issue is
09:27Primarily this that they are not accepting the answer about the one
09:35US president about that
09:37This is a bilateral discussion and we have decided between ourselves with Pakistan
09:43It was initiated by Pakistan that the ceasefire should be there and India accepted it
09:48But it's still they are saying they are accepting what?
09:52Trump had said once he has also clarified
09:55I am not
09:56Negotiated but again, they are going to say at the same question. So in case of Trump
10:03Ceasefire issue in case of foreign
10:07instrument in case of fighter jets
10:11Other thing although they are questioning and again and so the thing is they're in what is their intention for not accepting?
10:18The answers is the real question. Okay that we want to ask. Okay, so your time is up
10:24I'll come back to you for the next set of you know questions
10:27I want to bring in Mahima Singh from the Congress on this my missing
10:31You know your counterpart there the BJP spokesperson making it very clear that the Congress really is not looking at answers
10:37They just want to whip up the rhetoric again and again because the answers have been delivered each time
10:42The Congress has asked them you just don't want to accept it
10:45Jai Hind, Preeti, it is quite frivolous
10:48You see how the BJP spokesperson speak and they only amplify what the Prime Minister is taking is saying time and again
10:54Yesterday the Prime Minister went to Bikaner. Our simple question is in these 30 days
11:00Has he not found the time to go to Kashmir or is there not enough?
11:05Will to go to Kashmir and talk to the people there
11:08Will to go to Kashmir and talk to the people there
11:11We want to ask the Prime Minister and his there's no point interrupting. We won't hear you
11:17Go ahead mom make your point and you see we want to ask
11:22President Trump has spoken eight times
11:25Eight time he spoke day before yesterday and he said they are cracking a big deal with India
11:31What is the cost of this Sindoor?
11:34Yesterday hearing the Prime Minister's speech Preeti
11:37I was prompted to write these lines and I must say it here
11:41Because you see there is only one apparent beneficiary in this whole scenario
12:0730 days have passed. Why does he not mention?
12:11Why does he not mention the martyrs of the army? Why does he not mention the civilians who have been killed?
12:17why does he not condemn the
12:20trolling of Himanshi Narwal or Vikram Mistryji or his daughters or for that matter his own minister speaking on Colonel
12:27Sophia Qureshi he goes to Bikaner doesn't go to Kashmir and says
12:32I have hot Sindoor running through my veins
12:35That would be toxic for I mean for a matter of record that would be really toxic
12:39But when he is making such claims
12:41I have hot Sindoor running through my veins
12:43Then doesn't your blood boil?
12:45That four terrorists
12:47Where are those four perpetrators?
12:49Okay ma'am your time is up
12:51I'll come back to you. I'll cut across to Ashutosh
12:53But before that I'll bring in Gopal Krishna Agarwal for a quick rebuttal and then we'll go to Ashutosh
12:58Gopal Krishna Agarwal the fact is
13:00You know, there are certain questions that
13:03Need to be answered which haven't been answered
13:05Possibly there are certain questions like you pointed out that the Congress is now playing politics and is
13:10building on the rhetoric
13:12The latest set of questions that Rahul Gandhi the leader of opposition has put up and in return the Congress is actually calling him
13:19Somebody who's fit for the highest award in Pakistan Nishan-e-Pakistan
13:23But the questions that ideally should be answered Gopal Krishna number one
13:28Why have India been allowed to be hyphenated with Pakistan number two?
13:32Why didn't a single country back in condemning Pakistan though?
13:35three countries have outrightly come out and back to India, which is Taiwan Israel and
13:40Japan and why have we asked Trump to mediate between India and Pakistan?
13:45There has been no clear answer to that till now
13:50Gopal Agarwal because it might have come on day one by the spokesperson of the Ministry of External Affairs
13:55but like the Congress is pointing out if eight interventions by the president of the United States of America has been made where he's
14:02Practically stated he intervened doesn't it warrant at least the external affairs minister to come out and give a befitting reply?
14:10Why we soft peddling it?
14:13No, the government has clarified that there has been no intervention between a negotiation and
14:22Intervention from the US
14:24President the he had been talking and India had been talking other countries had out been also been talking with India and Pakistan
14:31But there is no intermediation that has been clarified
14:35But if still the president says we cannot just control what he says
14:39We can only say state the fact the government has clarified that there has been no intervention
14:46the initiation for the ceasefire was the requested from the hotline by
14:52Pakistan DGMO and it was responded to by Indian DGMO
14:56That is clear what American president say we we have no control on that
15:01secondly to our
15:03hear the air about the global level global countries about their
15:09confusion or their
15:11understanding between what what India's attack was on Pakistan how we dealt with
15:18Anti-terror measures etc. The government has sent
15:23All party delegation to almost 58 countries
15:28this only government has clarified some of the
15:32Countries which are not in line with our thinking
15:36therefore the test outreach has been taken place and
15:39secondly a third point is there about the
15:44India
15:49Connect you in just a while. We can't really hear you. We're gonna try and correct the audio of the BJP spokesperson
15:55I want to bring in Ashutosh into this conversation Ashutosh
15:58You know
15:58we've debated this ad nauseum over the last couple of days that there needs to be at least a red line which the opposition needs to
16:05You know
16:06Understand and honor while this needs to be put in perspective
16:10Questions need to be and should be asked by the opposition. Some questions are outlandish
16:17See pretty I think the government also needs a red line why I'm saying so because there's too much confusion around too much confusion
16:24I was very very very
16:27patiently and very
16:29Carefully listening to the Prime Minister's speech yesterday and Prime Minister said, you know what?
16:34I think a cow or a tank key
16:36Surprised the Sarkar may have for it. Mayhota
16:39See the Prime Minister is saying I think a cow may or a tank is a pressure car
16:43We're for it. Mayhota to fit Jai Shankar G
16:46Yo, Pakistan key for school but I read a key by him up Cooper. I'm not even a hump. I'm not even a humbler
16:52There is a this line doesn't go
16:55There is a total disconnect with what the Prime Minister is saying and what the government did during the operations in door
16:59I think that needs to be clarified when we are making a distinction between the army and the and the terrorist organization
17:06Pakistan did not make any distinction Pakistan directly attacking our civilian
17:10Pakistan was doing all kinds of nonsense thing and even the Pakistan had the guts to and whatever say you we may call it
17:16when the DGMO the ceasefire was announced Pakistan broke the ceasefire and still
17:21Was sending drone on us and going all kinds of gullabari
17:25The issue is
17:26The government should come out clean on the fact that whether they still view that this is a war was it a war or not?
17:32You ask any any BJP spokesman? This is not a war. This is not a war. This is not a war
17:37You ask was there a ceasefire? No, no, this is not a ceasefire. This is not a ceasefire
17:40This is an understanding what I have heard little bit of English
17:43What I know is that the ceasefire is always done between the two enemies and the understanding happens between the two friends
17:50So
17:51We should be very clear on this and that is why there is so many questions. Mr
17:55Donald Trump again has said then it is because of him when he was talking to the
18:00Saddam for the South African president again reiterated the same thing
18:03It is because of him that Pakistan and India got together and ceasefire is announced
18:07No, why the Prime Minister did not sing?
18:09why the why the home why the home minister is not saying where the defense minister not not saying and why the
18:15Foreign minister is saying. Mr. Donald Trump
18:18Why I want to move to my massing and I'll I think we do have Rajat Sethi with us
18:21But my massing to bring you in, you know
18:23Very quickly on that the Congress has taken grave offense of Rahul Gandhi the leader of opposition's picture
18:29being juxtaposed with that of
18:32Asim Munir from Pakistan fair point
18:34But having said that in the same way in the LOP
18:38Mahima Singh has called the external affairs minister JJ, which is Jachin
18:43Jashankar and you know, you're doing exactly what you are accusing Pakistan of doing you really are
18:51Accusing the external affairs minister who might could have worded his sentences better and you're calling him Jachin
18:58We all know what the connotation of Jachin is Mahima
19:03Preeti please read and analyze the statement given by the external affairs minister
19:10Minutely you see what he says is at the start off
19:13I mean they can go on course correcting damage controlling as much as they want to but what he said was at the start
19:20We informed and at the end he goes on to say well Pakistan did not take the good advice
19:26Now, what do you read between these two lines? We gave advice they did not take good advice
19:31So we did what we have to now they can go on saying well be informed afterwards
19:35No, they did not and he said exactly what the truth was now
19:40Let me just ask the BJP spokesperson and let him answer. They are talking about Nishan a park today
19:46We want to understand we want to learn from them
19:49and if they do not know we want to remind them Nishan a park was given to Morarji Desai a
19:55BJP leader a prime minister of a BJP coalition government. He was given Nishan a park. He was also, you know
20:03Prosecuted in the u.s. For diverging information
20:06He was we know all the accusations that have been there and apart from that
20:11Preeti who went on to exonerate and appreciate Jinnah on his in on his very land on his very motherland
20:18It was mr. LK Advani. Mr. Murali Manohar Joshi. What is the BJP talking about today?
20:23Now the BJP spokesperson was very you know
20:27It was very it is a mockery of the nation and those who were killed on the 22nd of April when he says well
20:33We cannot control. Mr. Trump. He will go on to say we know you cannot control. Mr
20:37Trump because he sent our brothers and sisters
20:40Shackled force-feeding them cow the cow meat and you could not do anything
20:45The prime minister was there in America and planes US Army planes were ran landing in India one after the other
20:51We do not know you can not do it
20:53We do know because tomorrow Trump will come and say that he has acquired India, you know
20:58He will he will threaten the sovereignty of India. Is this what?
21:02You know Modi government is going to say is this what they are going to say when tomorrow Trump goes on to make such
21:08Bizarre statements as he making money time is up. I want to bring in Rajat Sethi. Mommy time is up
21:13You know, I'm gonna I'll come back to you later. I'll circle back Rajat Sethi
21:16I want to bring you in into this of conversation
21:18You know one can very well say that the Congress is playing into Pakistan agenda
21:22But the Congress in itself Rajat Sethi and it's a conversation we've had before is doing the job of the opposition
21:27There are certain questions it might be going overboard with but there are certain questions which definitely need answers
21:33Especially where the intervention of Donald Trump is concerned. We've had at best the foreign, you know
21:38affairs ministry spokesperson or the foreign secretary come out eight times if an intervention is made by the
21:45President of America stating that they intervene doesn't it warrant at least the external affairs minister to come out and make a strong
21:53counterpoint
21:55See it's like, you know falling into
22:04I'll go back right now to the BJP spokesperson. Mr. Krishna Gopal Krishna Agarwal. Would you want to take the same question?
22:12Why should we be happy with the external affairs?
22:16ministry spokesperson or the foreign secretary to come out and
22:21counter the President of America who not once but now on multiple occasions has
22:27Reiterated the same thing shouldn't it warrant a strong response by the Minister of External Affairs, sir
22:34Already our government has clarified that there is no intervention by any
22:40Outside party other than be it's a bilateral discussion and it's about the bilateral decision
22:46And our position vis-a-vis Pakistan is very clear that Kashmir and terrorism
22:53Kashmir is a bilateral issue that terrorism is the only point where we will talk to the
22:58Pakistan at this point of time no intervention by third party is accepted and was done. It has been clarified even mr
23:06Trump next day had said that I am NOT negotiated the
23:10Ceasefire. I just talked to Prime Minister Modi. He's a close friend of mine and I have talked to Pakistan's president
23:17so very it is very clear that the global leaders at that point of time did not want to escalate the
23:26India Pakistan
23:29skirmishes and
23:30the fight and therefore they were talking in India was also talking to all the
23:35International leaders, whoever are calling so where is the problem in this?
23:41Trump himself has clarified that I have not negotiated the deal. I have talked to them Indian government has said there is no third party
23:49It's a the initiative for ceasefire was
23:53Initiated by Pakistan DG more and we accepted it
23:56So why can't opposition accept this why they are insisting what Trump is saying said once but at one point of time
24:05whatever Trump may say but when our Indian government is saying on a such a sensitive issue and
24:11On an issue where army has also clarified why they can't believe in our in our army
24:17The foreign minister secretary has clarified it are all the armed forces have clarified it the other
24:25Persons have clarified it even
24:27Mr. Trump at one said that I have not negotiated
24:30We are again and again saying that there is no third-party role in
24:35That's incorrect. President Trump has never said that he's never negotiated number one
24:39The Indian Armed Forces are one second
24:42Your time is up the Indian Armed Forces have never come out and said that America hasn't negotiated
24:47So it's not that the Indian Armed Forces have denied it neither has neither has the president of America denied
24:54Intervening on the contrary, he's only reinstated the same point
24:58So therefore the larger question also sub one second. I'll come back to you
25:02I'll come back to you with that question and maybe you can answer that question. Then mr. Agrawal, you'll have your time
25:07But you know, please dwell on the question. The fact is you have delegations going abroad and what are these delegations doing?
25:13They're actually going country to country asking these countries to be neutral that why are they neutral?
25:20You're actually
25:22Reemphasizing something which is only glaring at the fact that there are not too many countries supporting us
25:28I'll come back to that, but I want to bring in Ashutosh into this conversation Ashutosh
25:31But one needs to temper down look at the tone and tonality of what the opposition is asking
25:37Yes certain questions pertinent, but when we get down to semantics of how many planes were down, why can't you come out with it?
25:43Would you at least reckon and accept that these are not questions that need to be asked just yet?
25:48But why Preeti these questions should not be asked I just fail to understand why these questions should not be asked
25:55Why we are creating a holy cow in this country?
25:58See, I have already referred to the how the American Supreme Court has given orders on the Pentagon paper and said very categorically
26:05Even the press and even the citizens have a right to know what is happening on the front line
26:10Now see if it is an open society
26:13There is a democratic society then every question should be asked and every question should be answered
26:18I can understand that the government doesn't want to speak in public
26:21But government and always talk to the leader of position in private and say this is what has happened and the DB debate should have
26:26Ended no, but the government is not doing that
26:28See, I I think I think the foreign policy has majorly failed this country
26:33Our foreign policy has majorly failed our army and why I am saying so in
26:382021 the if the Pakistan was under the gray list in the FATF and in
26:432022 the Pakistan was
26:45Was away from that list now
26:47The government of India is again trying to convince people that Pakistan should be should be into the into the gray list of the FATF
26:53Who will you answer the question why we have in the last four years?
26:56We have we failed to convert convinced the global powers and other that Pakistan is a failed state
27:01Pakistan is a sponsoring terrorism. Pakistan is killing innocent Indians and
27:05This unless we have not done the our work
27:10homework sufficiently
27:11If we had done our work homework homework
27:13Sufficiently if you're aggressive enough
27:15Pakistan would not have been out of the FATF gray list point about point number two
27:19IMF again the same thing same thing happened Pakistan got the
27:242.44 billion dollars from the from the IMF and we failed to understand now
27:27We are sending people to the different different capital different capital
27:31I welcomed it
27:31But the fact of the matter is what are you going to tell tell them are you going to tell that the Pakistan is not?
27:36Doing this this this that means is still be these people are not convinced about what India has been saying about the Pakistan
27:43So issue is the foreign policy and the people sitting in the MEA needs to explain why this is happening or why it they have
27:50Failed okay. Do we have Rajat seti? Okay. Okay. We don't have Rajat seti is not with us
27:55I think there's a network problem there, but I'll bring you in, you know, mr
28:00Gopal Agrawal and I'll go back to my massing after that, but the larger question
28:04Gopal Agrawal today
28:05We've got delegations that are going country to country to try and convince these countries on
28:10Why are they not taking a stand and why do they remain neutral?
28:14It is a larger question that somewhere down the line there must be some fault at least in our diplomatic channels that today
28:21other than a Japan of Taiwan and
28:25Israel we have no country that has openly come out and supported us
28:30Today we have to understand that there is a mark difference in our policy with regard to foreign
28:36But dealing with Pakistan you see it after 26 11 what happened?
28:41What a reaction that the Congress had at what action they did they take against terrorist attack from Pakistan sponsored?
28:49Places what did they do?
28:51But now you see there is a bigger change in how we dealt with Pakistan terrorist activity
28:57There is a big change. The India's position now is
29:02Remarkably different when it was earlier even in Kashmir article 370 has been removed
29:08So we have taken certain strong actions that has changed certain
29:14issues at the global level and into my between our relation with Pakistan also our response our
29:20terrorist attack
29:23Response to terrorist attack our position is a
29:26removal of article 370 they have created some kind of different narratives and different policies so the
29:34Responses all right, so your time is up. I'll come back to you. Okay now
29:37I think we finally do have Rajat Sethi with us Rajat
29:40You've become as elusive as what the Congress calls a befitting reply to President Trump
29:44But I want to I want to bring you in and the question that I asked you on
29:49You know what the Congress clearly deems should have been a stronger response to President Trump and the larger question
29:56You know we have delegation after delegation. It's interesting because none of those delegations have gone to any of our neighboring countries
30:02You know emphasizing on the hostility of it all and on the other hand country after country where we're only trying to emphasize
30:09Why are you neutral weren't you standing with us? That's quite counterproductive diplomatically Rajat
30:14So I
30:16Will recall what John F. Kennedy said he clearly says that ask not what the country can do for you
30:22Ask what you can do for the country, and I think this especially during the times of crisis
30:27Balls in for all of us to come in chip in and try and do whatever level best
30:32We can do in terms of ensuring that the that the narrative
30:36Whatever you're talking about in our immediate neighborhood or in the Western media is addressed
30:40I understand that a rise of India is in nobody's interest. We are all alone in this world
30:47especially the West has seen that China and the Chinese rise went on uncontrolled, and this is why all the
30:53All the focus will be on India to ensure that India's growth story remains
30:57Subtle and and there will be no outwardly support coming in from several alliance partners therefore
31:03We have to look inwards strengthen ourselves
31:06Ensure that if at all, you know push comes to shove
31:09We are we are ready to defend ourselves and our borders as much as we can
31:13Having said that, you know if I were Congress party and I I know there are a hundred things that I will talk about
31:19BJP against which we didn't work out
31:20But for Congress party the limited point that I have to say is as see Raul Gandhi
31:25I mean if I were in his shoes, I would have potentially said that okay government has failed
31:30Let me be a bigger nationalist. Let me go out. Let me be a bigger nationalist
31:35Let me go out let me go to America. I have my connections there. I have my networks there
31:39I will go and speak on behalf of my country and clear the air
31:42My army has done a better job. Maybe my government hasn't done a good job
31:46I'm going to fill in the gap and and change the narrative but look at what Congress party has done
31:50Instead of taking up a more positive agenda. They have fallen into trap of this narrative battle
31:55Which is being unleashed by the congress by the Pakistan and the Pakistani media. Why would you want to give this?
32:02As an alternative, uh to before the Indian masses you could have come up with a very very positive
32:07approach therefore
32:09I agree with you. Our neighborhood policy requires a reset button
32:14A lot of things have changed. I mean pretty I'll just add one more thing
32:17For example tik tok it is blocked in india, but it is not blocked in the other south asian countries
32:21There is this rising tide of nationalism or fraternity that we are seeing between the nepalese and the pakistanis and the bangladeshi
32:28These are newer dynamics which we will have to prepare ourselves and I don't think we should
32:33You know put our head in the sand and hope that this penguin effect will ensure that
32:40Maybe you know reinstate our relationship with our neighboring nations because I would think in the history of india. This is one of uh,
32:47Uh the worst ties that we've had with our neighbors. I'd like to bring in
32:50Uh, you know one minute mahima singh final comments, ma'am one minute
32:54You know, uh priti it is very interesting, uh, and uh, you see how you understand, uh
33:02BJP's and mr. Modi's double face yesterday while delivering that speech in beacon air. He said
33:08No trade with pakistan. All right
33:10China came out and said up front that they support
33:14Pakistan unconditionally. Why are we having why are we conducting uh lakhs of crores of uh trade with china?
33:21Why do you not put a uh stop on that because by
33:25Supporting china was this really about pakistan and india and about uh, the neighboring
33:30Country is foreign policy a bangladesh happens and modi government has no clue
33:35Sheikh hasina finally asks for refuge and lands in our country
33:39So we have seen what modi government has done to our foreign policy
33:43Especially with our neighboring countries in the past few years. We have seen uh, you know a whole
33:49Um, okay, we're running out of time. I'm going to take nine seconds of your time. I want to
33:53Give it to gopal krishnagarwal. Sorry, ma'am. I'm running out of time. I wouldn't ever come in like that. Mr
33:58Raghavan, you have 50 seconds and go ahead. I want to tell that when you rise in the global leadership ladder
34:04You have several challenges
34:06uh congress policy was surrender and then
34:09by peace our policy is to watch our national interest and fight to the
34:15Uh
34:30Everyone's got equal time. Let's not get there. I just want to bring in 50 seconds to ashutosh. Go ahead sir. Make your point
34:38See priti, I just failed to understand that the why are our co-panelists in india is all alone
34:42Why I think in the last 10 years we have made to believe that india is a 140 crore
34:47a big economic market where
34:50We were told that mr
34:51Narendra modi is is the tallest leader this country has ever produced and every leader in the world is his friend
34:57And we were very aggressive about it. Okay, then what the foreign ministry was doing?
35:00Okay, the foreign ministry job is to get friends other we we need a new foreign minister. Not this one who has spoken every minute
35:08All right, sir. Uh
35:1040 seconds rajat make your point, please
35:13Well, I think essentially what needs to be said is let's ignore trump
35:18Uh, let's keep that topic aside
35:20Let's refocus on what our strengths are as a country and I believe everybody has to chime in today
35:26Uh, you know, there is a multi-party
35:28Delegations which have gone out across the world. Let us present a best case forward
35:33Let them engage with these stakeholders around the world and see what all right. Okay. I'm gonna come in
35:38I've terribly run out of time in this debate. We wish we had you earlier, but that's that I let it be
35:43But like I said yesterday
35:44It's going to be something that's going to continue and also through the course
35:47Of many days to come and it is one such debate that we had today
35:52Well, the standoff continues questions continues to come
35:55from the opposition the congress and till now at least the government and the bjp stand is that this is congress playing into
36:03Pakistan agenda on the other hand is the congress just being responsible asking questions that an opposition should to decide out there our viewers
36:16Maternity leave vital part of women's reproductive rights
36:21the top court of the country making it clear that maternity leave is an integral component of
36:27Maternity benefits a bench of justice abhay s oka and justice ujjal bhuyan
36:34Further said that no institution could deprive a woman of her right to maternity leave
36:41The landmark order comes in the wake of a petition filed by a government teacher in tamilnadu
36:47Who was denied maternity leave after the birth of her child from a second marriage?
36:53In her petition the woman said her maternity leave was denied on grounds that she had two children from her first marriage
37:03Tamilnadu has a rule that maternity benefits will only be extended to the first two children
37:10The petition said that she had not availed of any maternity leave or benefits for her two children
37:16From her first marriage the woman also claimed that she entered the government workforce only after her second marriage
37:25Siding with the petitioner the supreme court expanded the scope of maternity benefits
37:31Saying maternity leave could now be recognized as part of basic reproductive rights
37:38In
37:402017 a significant amendment was made to the maternity benefits act on the supreme court's orders
37:47The maternity leave was increased from 12 weeks to 26 weeks for all women
37:53Women choosing to adopt a child are also entitled to 12 weeks of maternity
37:59benefits
38:01While three months are given for the third child
38:04Ever since the maternity benefits act there have been two contrarian views
38:09One that suggests that this will greatly help women in the workforce the other that says it could be detrimental
38:19While
38:2075 of women in india are employed in the unorganized sector and work without any benefits this legislation
38:29Only making an impact on the 25 percent working in the organized sector
38:35But why shouldn't they benefit?
38:38Well, it's a little complicated
38:41As per studies post 2017 amendment there seems to be a clear maternity leave bias
38:49Studies have found women 22 percent less likely to receive interview calls from smaller firms
38:56A decline has been attributed to the increased cost burden on employers
39:0130 percent drop in employment amongst women in the high fertility age group
39:08reluctance to hire women linked to financial implications of employer
39:13funded maternity leave
39:1675 of women experienced career setbacks for up to two years after returning from maternity leave
39:2342 percent of respondents reported encountering bias at work upon their return
39:31So while india's maternity leave policy is progressive on paper
39:35It has sparked a separate debate over whether it may unintentionally hurt women's employment prospects
39:43You
39:49All right getting in quick comments from lalita kumara mangalam former chairperson
39:53Ncw as well as brinda adige women rights activist. I want to cut across to miss kumara mangalam first
39:59You know ma'am
40:01What happened today in court could be landmark?
40:03But when you read into the larger picture of maternity leave even though it benefits only about 25 percent
40:10Of the women workforce 75 percent is in the unorganized sector and they don't benefit from the maternity leave big question was why shouldn't this?
40:1825 benefit but ever since
40:212017 since uh, you know, we adopted the new policy miss kumara mangalam if you look at just data
40:28It's actually proven to be detrimental to women
40:33Uh, look unfortunately, we still live in a very
40:36Patriarchal society preety
40:38And I today I agree with the supreme court. It's not that I always agree with their judgments
40:43I you know me I question things if I don't agree with it
40:46But here it is the the basic right of a woman basic reproductive right of a woman
40:52to avail of maternity leave especially when there is an act of parliament which says
40:57A law that says the government has to give or any company
41:01has to give a
41:03Woman maternity leave if she asks for it
41:05In tamil nadu apparently, uh, they say that they will give and either the I think the 2017
41:11Amendment also says for the third child three months
41:14But in this lady's case, she has made it very clear that she's never worked for the government earlier one
41:19And two that she's never availed of maternity leave either now beyond the point
41:25Uh, I mean, I agree that population exposure is a problem and all the rest of that but that aside
41:32It should not impinge on any individual's right to take maternity leave
41:37It's a well-known fact that maternity leave is not just for the convenience of the mother
41:41but for the health of the newborn baby also the first of the six month the
41:46Babies are extraordinarily fragile all of us who have children know this and they need to be preferably breastfed
41:53There are lots of issues that are dealt with in the first six months of a baby's life
41:58and the best person to
42:00Steer the baby through see that he or she is growing a little well healthily, etc
42:05Etc is a mother nobody as you know can take a mother's place
42:10And no government or private or public company should have the right to interfere in this especially when there is a law
42:18now, uh
42:19In this lady's case. I don't think the supreme court is wrong at all. I think they're absolutely on dot and they're quite correct
42:28You know, we tend to become very judgmental
42:33I mean all that is separate if you're talking about freebies government benefits, that's a separate thing
42:38This is not that this is maternity leave which has everybody knows that point
42:42There are many reasons behind it not just for the woman to recover from the birth
42:47Also because the baby needs its mother's attention
42:50I mean only a father can actually basically breastfeed a child
42:54Fair point, I mean there are many such issues. So I feel that the supreme court was quite right
42:59Fair point. I want to bring in brinda adige brinda
43:01Adige, would you want to touch on the larger picture because miss kumara mangalam clearly put in perspective on what the supreme court said today
43:07Which many are leading reading is landmark
43:10But having said that when we look at the larger picture brinda adige 75 percent women don't even uh, you know
43:16Get the benefit of maternity leave because they're in the unorganized sector
43:19The 25 percent that do and in the last couple of years since 2017
43:25If you look at data and that's the sad documentary to it
43:28Is that maternity leave the six-month stipulated leave now is actually proving to be detrimental when it comes down to women employment
43:39Yes, almost 75 percent of women in the informal unorganized sector do not have the benefit of this law and this act
43:47But like you pointed out even the 25 percent who can
43:51avail these benefits do not get it because of the
43:56stereotypical bias that is there one
43:58two everybody thinks that
44:01It is a charity that is being extended to the female woman employee
44:05If she's going on leave and getting all of these benefits
44:09Of course, the law says 80 days and after that you can take the 12 weeks of leave
44:14But many of them do not even work not only work 80 days work more than that
44:20That said we again have to come back to ask the question
44:23How many companies have been pulled up or how many women have actually come and reported that their leave was denied?
44:30Or their promotion was denied or after they come back from maternity leave the same position was given to them
44:37None of this is being monitored
44:39Though the law the court has said that reproductive rights are an integral part of women's rights
44:45It's nice for the court to say but until and unless somebody complains somebody brings it
44:51Before some authority none of this comes to the notice of anybody else this particular case
44:57Her is a very strong case and she she had the courage to take it all the way up to the supreme court
45:03But you and I know that there are many such women who suffer silently who give up on their careers and jobs
45:10And yet my government continuously talks about giving that equal rights with equity
45:16if we are talking about
45:19if we are not going to allow the mother to look after the child and like
45:23Mrs. Kumara Mangalam pointed out
45:26That mother is so important to take care of the child development of the child and to ensure that the child is healthy
45:33Where will we have a healthy society or a healthy india?
45:36Fair point ma'am. I you know appreciate both of you for joining us and maybe a larger debate can also happen on this
45:41uh, you know, maybe certain tax incentives can be given to companies to uh, you know, uh, go ahead and
45:49Offer the leave which is entitled to these women and more importantly that when they do come back
45:55that they get uh, you know, they come back on the same pay scale and they don't fall out of
46:00the woman workforce
46:02and that's clearly happening right now because uh data seems to suggest about 30 percent women either fall out and about
46:0922 percent of women have clearly stated that when they come back
46:14They don't find that kind of atmosphere that they can be absorbed. I appreciate both of you for joining us. Thank you