- 5/14/2025
In this episode of To The Point, experts discuss the controversy surrounding US President Trump's claims of brokering a ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:03Our top debate, well lots of domestic politics going on,
00:07especially at the back of what the Congress has claimed is third party in mediation
00:11and were India's interests compromised under US pressure.
00:15We're going to delve a little deeper into that.
00:17First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:24The full ceasefire truth, exclusive images accessed by India Today
00:28show that Pakistan Prime Minister's plane could have been flying closer to Noor Khan airbase
00:33during India's Operation Sindhul.
00:36This is a world exclusive.
00:44INS Vikram, housing MiG-29s, kept strict vigil on Karachi during conflict.
00:50India's sea hunters puked Pakistan.
00:53Islamabad issues notification demarcation to zones for firing by naval ships.
00:58Pakistan likely to pay 14 crores to Jaish chief Masood Azhar
01:09as ex-gratia for death of 14 family members in May 7 strikes.
01:15Pakistan promises to rebuild Jaish and LED headquarters.
01:18Pakistan appeals to India over in this water, urges India to reconsider IWT decisions
01:31as treaty abeyance will trigger crisis in Pakistan.
01:34key cabinet meet on security concludes at Prime Minister's residence,
01:48separate pull-aside meet between Prime Minister, Home Minister and the Defence Minister.
01:53The Ammunition Hall after Chopin encounter, weapons of three slain Lashkar terrorists recovered,
02:11bullets, automatic weapons and grenades seized.
02:14India gets new Chief Justice of India.
02:24All right, viewers, let's take you through on what is our top debate this evening.
02:52Just about half hour before the Prime Minister addressed the nation, we heard from President Trump,
02:59where he seemed to have insinuated very clearly that it was America that brokered the ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
03:08He more so also said that he leveraged trade to do so.
03:13At the back of it, we have the Prime Minister who spoke decisively.
03:16And after that, we also had a press brief by the Ministry of External Affairs who laid bare that it was Pakistan
03:25that actually had sought a ceasefire and not India, rather begged for a ceasefire.
03:31Well, yesterday, once again, President Trump came out and reiterated exactly what he had said two days ago.
03:39Once again, suggesting that it was Pakistan that brokered peace and ceasefire,
03:45that it was America that brokered ceasefire between India and Pakistan,
03:51and that President Trump had used and leveraged trade to do so.
03:55He also seemed to insinuate that Pahalgam terror strikes was a small issue.
04:01At the back of that, we've had massive domestic politics where India is concerned,
04:06the opposition attacking the government and the BJP on,
04:10have India's interests been compromised at the back of what,
04:16at least the opposition claims, is pressure from the United States of America.
04:21India has made it clear that it was Pakistan that begged for a ceasefire.
04:51An hour before the Prime Minister's address to the nation,
04:55the American President Donald Trump made a startling statement.
05:00My greatest hope is to be a peacemaker and to be a unifier.
05:05I don't like war.
05:08Just days ago, my administration successfully brokered a historic ceasefire
05:12to stop the escalating violence between India and Pakistan.
05:16A bold claim by the U.S. President where he said it was America that brokered peace
05:23between two nuclear-armed neighbors,
05:26emphasizing that he used trade to broker peace.
05:30A claim he reiterated a day after on his visit to Saudi Arabia.
05:37Trump once again took credit for the ceasefire between India and Pakistan,
05:43saying he used trade as leverage to dial down tensions.
05:47My administration successfully brokered a historic ceasefire
05:52to stop the escalating violence between India and Pakistan.
05:57And I used trade to a large extent to do it.
06:00I said, fellas, come on, let's make a deal.
06:03Let's do some trading.
06:04Let's not trade nuclear missiles.
06:07Let's trade the things that you make so beautifully.
06:11Moreover, what could be read as a huge affront to India
06:16was President Trump seeming to insinuate that Pahel Gham was a small issue.
06:23India has dismissed these assertions, reiterating
06:26that peace efforts are rooted in its own diplomatic and strategic decisions.
06:32Prime Minister Modi reinforced India's long-held position.
06:36Kashmir is not up for discussion.
06:38He stressed that India and Pakistan can only have a dialogue on terror and return of P.O.K.
06:45India has also fought for the war.
07:15He firmly rejected the idea that American pressure played any role.
07:20The message from Delhi is crystal clear.
07:23India doesn't need mediation,
07:25and that it was the action of the forces that led to Pakistan pleading for ceasefire.
07:31Be clear.
07:33It was the force of Indian arms that compelled Pakistan to stop its firing.
07:39In the high-stakes game of diplomacy and deterrence,
07:44there is also inter-domestic politics,
07:47with the opposition now asking questions of the government.
07:50Why hasn't India given a strong rebuttal to the claims made by President Trump?
07:56Jairam Ramesh of the Congress tweeted,
08:00questioning the government if India's interests were mortgaged under U.S. pressure.
08:05Other parties also joined in questioning the government,
08:11questioning the government on why no strong offensive to America.
08:37Jairam Ramesh of the Congress.
09:07You can't speak this kind of language and get away with it.
09:13It won't happen.
09:14While domestic politics peaks,
09:17ultimately it's a tightrope diplomatic war for India.
09:23Top focus on To The Point this evening.
09:25In the midst of all of this, viewers,
09:32once we have the opposition now attacking the government,
09:35led by the Congress,
09:37asking the government that were India interests compromised
09:40at what the Congress feels is third-party mediation.
09:44Well, the entire Congress doesn't quite feel it,
09:47because there is certain senior leadership of the Congress
09:49which is feeling to the contrary and why I see that.
09:54Listen in to what now has become the Congress's tharoor conundrum.
09:59You've got Donald Trump,
10:04the United States President,
10:05claiming credit for the ceasefire,
10:08virtually saying that he's ready to mediate on the Kashmir issue,
10:12and importantly,
10:14drawing an equivalence between India, the victim,
10:17and Pakistan, the perpetrator.
10:18So, when it comes to the world,
10:21and you know the world well,
10:23India doesn't seem to have got the kind of unequivocal support
10:29that we should have,
10:30given the fact that we were the victim and Pakistan the perpetrator.
10:33How do you see what Donald Trump has done?
10:36Has that in some way reduced the effectiveness of Operation Sindhu?
10:41Look, I'm afraid none of us in India can be accountable
10:44for Mr. Trump's somewhat erratic behavior.
10:47All I can say is I don't believe he was properly briefed.
10:51I don't believe he understood the purport of what he was saying,
10:55because in saying what he's saying,
10:56he made four major mistakes.
10:58First, the equivalence between the victim and the perpetrator,
11:01as I pointed out.
11:02Second, he talked about mediation.
11:04India has never accepted or welcomed mediation,
11:07and I'm 100% sure that we did not seek American mediation on this matter.
11:12So there, while the Congress was going after the government
11:15on what Congress seems to suggest is third-party mediation
11:19and India's interests compromise,
11:20one of its own senior leaders says that there has been no mediation.
11:24Meanwhile, certain questions we posed
11:26before we cut across to our panel this evening.
11:28Should India have been firmer in its rebuttal to America?
11:33The other question that we ask,
11:35has India made its displeasure clear
11:37on America equating India with Pakistan?
11:41Viewers, through decades,
11:43India's diplomatic fight and success
11:46has been to dehyphenate itself from Pakistan.
11:49It's been successful in doing so,
11:51but President Trump did not.
11:53On the other hand,
11:54is India's multi-alignment foreign policy
11:56working or backfiring?
11:58Earlier on, India had the non-alignment policy.
12:01With coming in of the Modi government,
12:03we moved towards what is multi-alignment policy.
12:06Is it working or backfiring?
12:09Should India really take what President Trump says seriously?
12:13That's the big question.
12:14There's so much that President Trump has said.
12:16If you look at the comments that he made in Saudi Arabia,
12:21where he went on to say that he brokered peace
12:23between Russia and Ukraine,
12:24well, that is still ongoing.
12:25So should really India take what President Trump says seriously?
12:29Third-party mediation was also there,
12:31was in the 1965 war and Kargil.
12:34Why take Ambaraj right now?
12:39Let's take these questions to our panelists this evening.
12:42Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson,
12:44Bharatiya Janata Party,
12:45Mahima Singh, National Spokesperson, Congress,
12:48Ashutosh, Author and Political Analyst.
12:50In the studio with me,
12:51Karan Verma, Author and Political Analyst.
12:53Each of you would be given a two-minute timer
12:55to make your submissions,
12:58and then we will move on to the next panelist.
13:00I begin with Sanju Verma right atop.
13:03Sanju Verma, you know, two big things.
13:06Number one, half an hour before Prime Minister's
13:08first address to the nation,
13:10you have the President of America come out
13:12and openly suggest that it was America that mediated,
13:16and it was because of America that there was a ceasefire,
13:19which India, of course,
13:20the MEA spokesperson has contradicted.
13:23Then, yesterday, you had the President of the United States again
13:26seeming to suggest the same and also hyphenate trade with it,
13:29saying he used trade to leverage this ceasefire.
13:33He also, and we'll play that in just a short while now,
13:36seemed to insinuate, and I think that's a big one, Sanju Verma,
13:39where he seemed to suggest that Behelgam was a small issue.
13:43While we've had a strong rebuttal coming in
13:46from the spokesperson of the Ministry of External Affairs,
13:50one wonders,
13:51shouldn't this have warranted a senior person
13:53like the Prime Minister himself,
13:55or at least the Foreign Affairs Minister,
13:57to make a strong rebuttal,
13:59should we have been firmer in our response?
14:03You know, Preeti, first things first.
14:06Hats off to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
14:08I would like to take your platform
14:10to once again congratulate Prime Minister Modi
14:14for setting in motion
14:15what I call,
14:17and what many have called,
14:19the Modi Doctrine.
14:21Let's be very clear
14:22India, the largest democracy in the world,
14:26brought Pakistan down to its knees,
14:29and Pakistan is a nuclear power as much as India,
14:32brought Pakistan down to its knees
14:34in less than 23 hours
14:36by paralyzing and shattering
14:3911 of its air bases
14:42and air defense systems,
14:43point number one.
14:45Prime Minister Modi could not have been
14:47more clearer.
14:48He said three very important things
14:50in his address to the nation
14:5148 hours back.
14:54Trade and terror will not go together.
14:57Trade and talks will not go together.
15:00Water and blood will not flow together.
15:02And as Prime Minister Modi said,
15:06we have done a new
15:07lakir,
15:08we have done a new
15:10lakshman rekha,
15:10we have done a new
15:12paimana
15:13set up
15:15and
15:16that
15:17new paimana,
15:19that new
15:20lakshman rekha
15:21is this.
15:22An act of terror
15:23will be considered
15:24an act of war.
15:25And let me tell everybody
15:27out there,
15:27Kreeti,
15:28to your show,
15:29who have been saying,
15:31Indira Gandhi
15:31banma asan nahi hai.
15:33Ji haan,
15:33Indira Gandhi
15:34banma asan nahi hai.
15:35Because Indira Gandhi,
15:36despite the 1971
15:38victory,
15:39lost everything
15:39by way of a
15:40lame-duck shimma agreement
15:42on the negotiating table
15:43in 1972
15:45by completely
15:46succumbing to
15:47every ridiculous
15:48demand of
15:48Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.
15:50Ye haan ki
15:51Wahi Indira Gandhi hai,
15:52who handed on a
15:53golden platter
15:5393,000 Pakistani
15:55prisoners of war.
15:57But yeh Wahi Indira Gandhi hai,
15:59who could not even
15:59get back
16:0064 Indian
16:02prisoners of war
16:04who continue
16:05to rock
16:05in Pakistan.
16:06Sanjuwama,
16:07your time is up,
16:08your fader is going to
16:08go down.
16:09I want to bring in
16:09the Congress spokesperson
16:10Mahima Singh
16:11into this conversation.
16:12Two things,
16:12Mahima Singh.
16:13Number one,
16:13we've seen this
16:14realignment of
16:15world order.
16:16Should we really
16:16take President Trump
16:17so seriously?
16:18He's the same person
16:20who,
16:20in the same speech,
16:22while equating
16:23India with Pakistan,
16:25also seemed to suggest
16:26that he's brokered
16:26peace between Russia
16:27and Ukraine.
16:28That hasn't quite
16:29happened.
16:30You know,
16:30you've had Zelensky
16:31who hasn't even
16:32addressed what
16:33President Trump said.
16:34So should we really
16:35take President Trump
16:36that seriously?
16:38Number one.
16:38Number two,
16:39Mahima Singh.
16:40The fact is,
16:41the Congress has
16:42constantly harped on
16:43third-party mediation.
16:44Let's hark back
16:44to 1965.
16:46What was the
16:46Tashkent agreement?
16:47It was third-party
16:48mediation.
16:49Kargil war.
16:49What was it?
16:50It was third-party
16:51mediation.
16:52Jai Hind,
16:57Preeti,
16:58at the very outset,
16:59you know,
16:59as you asked me
17:00about the third-party
17:01mediation and what
17:02happened in 65 and
17:0371,
17:04I must remind you
17:05that Shimla agreement
17:06was entered into
17:0772,
17:08which the BJP
17:09spokesperson is very
17:10lightly talking about
17:11right now.
17:12So I want to ask
17:13a straight question
17:14which the Congress
17:15has been asking
17:16for many days.
17:17has the Shimla
17:19agreement ceased
17:20to exist for
17:21this government?
17:23They should spell
17:24it out straight.
17:25Are we open
17:26to third-party
17:27mediations now?
17:28They should also
17:29tell us whether
17:29diplomatic channels
17:31between the two
17:32countries,
17:32India and Pakistan,
17:33have opened now.
17:34Now you're asking
17:35me whether we
17:36should take Mr.
17:37Trump seriously
17:38or not.
17:39Well,
17:39you tell me,
17:40Preeti,
17:40because just months
17:41ago we saw
17:42Mr. Prime Minister
17:43visiting the United
17:45States,
17:46we saw the
17:46halabaloo across
17:47the channels,
17:48you know,
17:48Trump is pulling
17:49the chair for
17:50Mr. Modi,
17:51although he refused
17:51to come out
17:52and receive him
17:53by himself as he
17:55did many other
17:55prime ministers.
17:57We saw Indians
17:58being shackled
17:59and sent on
18:00US army planes
18:01like criminals
18:02back to our
18:03country.
18:03Should we take
18:04Mr. Trump
18:04seriously or not,
18:05Preeti?
18:06So to the
18:06Prime Minister
18:07Modi,
18:07I want to say
18:08today resounding
18:09the feelings that
18:10majority of Indians
18:11carry today for him
18:12and his government
18:13in Irtiza Nishat's
18:15words,
18:15Because you see
18:22in the morning
18:23the BJP
18:23handles tweet
18:24and by the
18:27evening
18:27there is an
18:29arbitrary and
18:30absurd ceasefire
18:31that comes
18:32announced by
18:33Mr. Trump.
18:343.35
18:35two countries
18:36speak,
18:36India and
18:36Pakistan speak
18:37and at
18:385.30
18:39we see Mr.
18:40Trump coming
18:40out,
18:40none of our
18:41defence minister,
18:42external affairs
18:43minister,
18:43prime minister,
18:44anybody from
18:45the government
18:45coming out,
18:46we want to
18:46ask it
18:47straight,
18:47have they
18:48traded
18:48Sindhuur?
18:49Have they
18:50traded
18:50Sindhuur
18:51behind this
18:51ceasefire
18:52which they
18:53even refuse
18:54to admit
18:54today?
18:55Okay.
18:55Mayimah Singh,
18:56your pager is
18:56going to
18:56go down,
18:57I want to
18:57cut across
18:58right now
18:58in the
18:58studio
18:59with me
19:00is Karan
19:01Varma,
19:01author and
19:02political
19:02analyst.
19:03Karan
19:03Varma,
19:03the fact
19:03is you
19:05have the
19:05President
19:06Trump who
19:06announces the
19:07ceasefire,
19:07you have
19:08President
19:08Trump who
19:09what India's
19:11entire diplomatic
19:12endeavour has
19:13been over
19:13decades to
19:14de-hyphenate
19:15from Pakistan,
19:16equate India
19:17and Pakistan
19:17in the same
19:18breath and
19:19then hyphenate
19:21trade to it,
19:21says he used
19:22trade to
19:23leverage in
19:25politics,
19:25in diplomacy
19:27while you
19:28know one
19:29has to walk
19:30that fine
19:31rope,
19:31diplomatic rope,
19:32there is also
19:33optics where
19:34your own
19:34domestic audience
19:35is concerned.
19:36What is this
19:36messaging many
19:37would suggest?
19:38So Preeti,
19:39let's understand
19:40this,
19:40Donald Trump
19:41has been a
19:42trash talker,
19:43he's also gone
19:44on to say that
19:44Canada should
19:45become the
19:4651st US
19:47state,
19:47he's also said
19:48that I have
19:48just brokered a
19:49peace deal
19:50between Russia
19:51and Ukraine
19:51and that
19:52ceasefire
19:52supposed ceasefire
19:53lasted for
19:54two hours.
19:55So you know
19:56people take that
19:57with a pinch of
19:57salt when
19:58Donald Trump
19:58speaks,
19:59of course as
20:00an Indian I
20:00did not like
20:01what he said,
20:02I do not like
20:03India and
20:03Pakistan being
20:04spoken of in
20:04the same breath.
20:05We are a
20:054 trillion economy,
20:07one of the
20:07largest economies
20:08in the world
20:09and there is a
20:10terrorist
20:10proper state,
20:11so of course I
20:12take strong
20:13offense to that.
20:14But you know
20:14in diplomacy
20:15sometimes you
20:16leave the others
20:16with a bloody
20:17nose,
20:17sometimes you
20:18have to deal
20:18with them with
20:19an iron fist
20:20in a velvet
20:20glove.
20:21In Donald Trump's
20:22case, I don't
20:23think it augurs
20:23well if Prime
20:24Minister Modi or
20:25the foreign
20:26minister reacts.
20:26What we have
20:27heard from the
20:27spokesperson of the
20:28MEA is enough
20:29at the same time.
20:31We also by the
20:31way proposed
20:32retaliatory tariffs
20:33on steel and
20:34aluminium at
20:34WTO.
20:35So you know
20:36our actions also
20:37speak with regards
20:37to that.
20:38Donald Trump by
20:39doing this mistake,
20:40I think he has
20:42burnt his bridges
20:42and he will become
20:43a laughing stock
20:44and he has done
20:45that in the past
20:46so that shouldn't
20:47come as a surprise.
20:48Using trade as a
20:49leverage that also
20:50doesn't add up
20:51well, we export
20:52more to US and
20:53you know even if
20:54we export more
20:55it's like 40
20:55billion dollars
20:56that isn't such
20:57a big leverage.
20:58So none of his
20:58claims actually
20:59stand the test
21:00of water.
21:01But what has
21:01happened here is
21:02the fact that
21:03India has struck
21:04Pakistan 20
21:05times, 9 terror
21:07strikes and 11
21:08air strikes and
21:09that is what
21:09stands the test.
21:10What Prime
21:11Minister right now
21:12said, Prime
21:12Minister Modi
21:13isn't a trash
21:14talker.
21:14He needed some
21:15serious issues which
21:16he wanted to
21:16address.
21:17He did that.
21:18He spoke directly
21:19to the Indian
21:19people and he
21:20also set up a
21:22message for the
21:22world that now
21:23the doctrine of
21:24defence for India
21:25has changed.
21:26Gone are the
21:26days when the
21:27air chief requested
21:28after 26-11 that
21:29we must strike
21:30Pakistan and there
21:31was lack of
21:32political will.
21:33Today we have
21:33political will,
21:34we have a leader
21:35that walks the
21:36talk and that is
21:37the need of the
21:37hour.
21:38Ashutosh, let me
21:39flip the same
21:39question to you.
21:40You know, while
21:41optics mean a lot
21:43where your own
21:43domestic audience is
21:44concerned, ultimately
21:45diplomacy is a
21:48completely different
21:49game.
21:50So, while yes,
21:52you know, many
21:52would suggest in
21:53chest-thump and
21:54you know, claim that
21:55we needed to give a
21:56firm or more
21:57befitting response
21:58to America, but
22:00you know, there is a
22:01diplomatic channel that
22:02India needs to
22:03follow and ultimately
22:04our message has been
22:06delivered.
22:07See, Preeti, I
22:08think a lot of
22:09falsehood are being
22:10spread these days
22:12and this falsehood
22:14has gone to the
22:14extent of insulting
22:15Patel Bihari
22:16Vajpayee.
22:17People are talking
22:17about Cargill, there
22:18was intervention by
22:19the Americans.
22:20Show me one
22:21statement from Bill
22:21Clinton and from
22:22the American
22:22administration of
22:23that point.
22:24I can tell you one
22:24thing very, very
22:25categorically because
22:26I covered that
22:27incident.
22:29Bill Clinton made
22:30it very, very clear
22:31to the Nawaz Sharif
22:32that Park deliberately
22:34violated the LOC.
22:36And then he said,
22:37unless Park
22:38troops, gets out
22:39of the LOC, there
22:41will be no talk.
22:43And it was, he
22:43was so firm that
22:44Nawaz Sharif had to
22:45fly to go to
22:47the Washington.
22:49And when Clinton
22:50wanted to talk to
22:51the Atal Bihari
22:51Vajpayee, Atal Bihari
22:53Vajpayee categorically
22:54said, told him,
22:56unless Park
22:57leaves our
23:00territory, if he
23:02stays there even
23:03for an inch, I'm
23:04not going to talk to
23:05anybody.
23:06That was the firm
23:07message to the
23:07Americans.
23:08That was the firm
23:09message to the
23:09Nawaz Sharif.
23:10And look what
23:11happened.
23:11A joint statement
23:13came out.
23:14And what was the
23:14joint statement?
23:16Take concrete
23:16steps for the
23:17restoration of the
23:18line of control in
23:18accordance with the
23:19Shimla agreement.
23:20That was the
23:21perfect defeat of
23:22Pakistan.
23:25India agreed.
23:26India was ready
23:27for the ceasefire.
23:28But when the
23:29Nawaz Sharif was
23:30on his knees,
23:32and Americans got
23:33the message.
23:34Here, Donald
23:36Trump is insulting
23:37India like anything.
23:38not once, not twice,
23:40but four, five
23:41times.
23:42He has taken
23:43India for a
23:43right.
23:44Why?
23:45Because we had
23:46gone to America
23:46and said, let's
23:48vote for Donald
23:48Trump.
23:49When Donald
23:50Trump was
23:51contesting election,
23:53he was
23:53asking for
23:54prayers for
23:54the
23:55government.
23:55He was
23:55praying.
23:56He was
23:56praying.
23:57And people
23:57were saying,
23:57he's a friend.
23:59He's a friend.
24:00Now,
24:01Modi
24:01is saying,
24:01I'm
24:02saying,
24:02I'm
24:03giving love
24:03and I'm
24:04giving love.
24:04Well,
24:07okay,
24:08all right,
24:08Architosh.
24:09I want to,
24:10you know,
24:10Sanjeev Verma,
24:11before I
24:11bring you
24:11in,
24:12I want
24:12our viewers
24:13to hear
24:14another part
24:14of the
24:15same speech
24:16that Donald
24:16Trump made
24:17where many
24:17would think
24:18that he
24:18tried to
24:19equate
24:19Perhilgam
24:20terrorist
24:20strike to
24:21a small
24:21incident.
24:23And that
24:23is huge,
24:24viewers.
24:25Let's
24:25listen in.
24:27The whole
24:28group worked
24:28with you,
24:29but it was
24:29a great,
24:30great job.
24:31And I
24:32think they're
24:33actually getting
24:34along.
24:34Maybe we
24:34can even
24:35get them
24:36together a
24:36little bit,
24:37Marco,
24:37where they
24:38go out
24:38and have
24:39a nice
24:39dinner together.
24:40Wouldn't
24:40that be
24:40nice?
24:41But we've
24:42come a
24:43long way
24:43and it
24:44could be,
24:44you know,
24:44millions of
24:45people could
24:47have died
24:47from that
24:48conflict that
24:49started off
24:50small and
24:51was getting
24:52bigger and
24:52bigger and
24:53bigger by
24:53the day.
24:57Again,
24:58listen in
24:58to what
24:58President
24:59Trump
24:59said.
25:01And
25:02the whole
25:04group worked
25:04with you,
25:05but it
25:05was a
25:05great,
25:06great job.
25:07And I
25:07think they're
25:08actually getting
25:10along.
25:10Maybe we
25:10can even
25:11get them
25:12together a
25:12little bit,
25:13Marco,
25:13where they
25:13go out
25:14and have
25:15a nice
25:15dinner
25:15together.
25:16Wouldn't
25:16that be
25:16nice?
25:17But we've
25:18come a
25:19long way
25:19and it
25:19could be,
25:20you know,
25:20millions of
25:21people could
25:23have died
25:23from that
25:24conflict that
25:25started off
25:25small and
25:27was getting
25:28bigger and
25:28bigger and
25:29bigger by
25:29the day.
25:30all right.
25:33You know,
25:33I want to
25:33now go
25:34back to
25:34Sanju
25:34Verma,
25:35because
25:35Sanju
25:35Verma,
25:35at one
25:36end,
25:36you've had
25:37the
25:37President
25:37of America
25:38say what
25:39he did
25:40where he
25:40claimed at
25:41least,
25:42and not
25:42once,
25:43thrice over,
25:43he's once
25:44again today
25:44in an
25:45interview to
25:46an American
25:46news channel
25:47suggested
25:48exactly what
25:49he did
25:49yesterday and
25:50the day
25:50before,
25:50that it
25:51was America
25:51that mediated,
25:52that he
25:52used,
25:53you know,
25:54trade to
25:55do so,
25:55and both
25:56nations are
25:56his friends.
25:57But also to
25:58suggest what
25:59started off as
25:59a small
26:00incident and
26:01became bigger,
26:02you know,
26:02to insinuate
26:04that the
26:04Pahal Gaam
26:05terror strikes
26:06were small
26:06is an
26:07abomination,
26:08Sanju
26:09Verma,
26:09and have
26:10we taken
26:10enough
26:11ambaraj and
26:12offence to
26:13it?
26:13You know,
26:15Preeti,
26:15I would like
26:16to start
26:16with a Hindi
26:17quote of
26:18Rahat Indori.
26:18This is
26:31for the likes
26:32of
26:33Jairam Ramesh,
26:34this is
26:34for the
26:34entire
26:35left-leaning
26:35Kaval,
26:36this is
26:36for the
26:37pseudo-secular
26:37gang who
26:38always
26:39questions
26:39anything
26:40that
26:40Prime Minister
26:41Modi
26:41does.
26:41And this
26:49is also
26:49for the
26:49likes of
26:50Ashutosh.
26:50Let me
26:51remind Preeti,
26:51you made a
26:52very interesting
26:52point at the
26:53start.
26:53K.
26:54Natwar Singh,
26:55who was the
26:55Minister of
26:56External Affairs,
26:57he wrote a
26:58book,
26:58One Life
26:59is Not
26:59Enough,
27:00where he
27:00clearly said
27:01in as many
27:02words,
27:03between 1948
27:04and 1964,
27:06there were
27:0823 UN
27:10resolutions
27:10against India
27:12pertaining to
27:13Kashmir.
27:14And
27:14Kandit Rehru
27:15has
27:15asked
27:15to the
27:17Soviet
27:18Union,
27:18can you
27:19please use
27:19your powers
27:20to veto
27:20the UN
27:21resolution?
27:22After the
27:23Bangladesh
27:23Liberation
27:24War of
27:241971,
27:26it took
27:26the United
27:27Nations
27:27almost a
27:28year to
27:28recognize
27:29Bangladesh
27:29and that
27:30happened
27:31after
27:31Indira Gandhi
27:32again went
27:33begging to
27:34the Soviet
27:35Union,
27:35please use
27:36your veto
27:36power to
27:37ensure that
27:38the UN
27:38resolution is
27:39not brought
27:40to fruition
27:40and Bangladesh
27:41is recognized.
27:43This is not
27:43Sanju Varma
27:43saying it.
27:44He was a
27:46career congressman
27:47and let me
27:49reinforce once
27:50again for
27:51everybody,
27:52I always
27:53say actions
27:53speak louder
27:54than words.
27:55King Kukor
27:56Apple has
27:57said now
27:5785%
27:58of Apple's
27:59production
28:00will shift
28:00from China
28:01to India.
28:02This
28:02whole
28:03congress
28:04has
28:04been
28:04in the
28:05country.
28:05Pradhan
28:06Mantri
28:06Narendra
28:06Modi
28:07had
28:0711
28:07airbase
28:09striking
28:10in the
28:10heart
28:10of
28:10Rawal
28:11Pindi.
28:11Paris
28:12has
28:12done
28:12and
28:12all
28:13the
28:13government
28:13has
28:14been
28:14in the
28:14last year
28:15we had
28:16a
28:16great
28:16surplus
28:17of
28:17$41
28:18billion
28:18in the
28:19United
28:19States.
28:19Sanju
28:19Varma,
28:20your
28:20fader is
28:20down.
28:22Also request
28:23ma'am,
28:24when I
28:24circle back
28:25to you,
28:25answer my
28:25question.
28:26No,
28:26I know
28:26you've
28:27come prepared
28:27with answering
28:28where the
28:28Congress is
28:29concerned,
28:29but do
28:29answer my
28:30question as
28:30well.
28:31I want to
28:31bring in
28:32Mahima Singh
28:32into this
28:32conversation.
28:33There's a point
28:33that Sanju
28:34Varma makes
28:35Mahima Singh.
28:35Sometimes
28:36actions should
28:37speak louder
28:37than words.
28:38You can
28:39keep allowing
28:40President Trump
28:41to rant,
28:41but on the
28:42other hand,
28:43read the
28:44larger messaging.
28:45India's message
28:45has been
28:46delivered clear
28:47and this
28:47time around
28:48there is
28:49enough proof
28:50Mahima Singh
28:50to suggest
28:51that we've
28:52done more
28:52damage,
28:53be it
28:54physical,
28:55tactical or
28:56strategic or
28:57even psychological.
28:58So our
28:59message where it
29:00should have been
29:00has been
29:01delivered.
29:01Why get
29:02into petty
29:03politics right
29:03now?
29:07So,
29:08Preeti,
29:09I'm wondering
29:10is it petty
29:10politics when
29:11Trump goes
29:12from stage
29:13to stage
29:14with those
29:14grim smiles?
29:16I saw that
29:16scene that you
29:17played twice.
29:18The grim smiles
29:19from world
29:20leaders,
29:21many of whom
29:21our Prime
29:22Minister Modi
29:23calls his
29:23good friends,
29:25goes and hugs
29:25them.
29:26We have seen
29:27a failed
29:28diplomacy,
29:29a sorry
29:29state of
29:30foreign policy
29:31over the
29:31past two
29:32weeks.
29:33Not even
29:34one single
29:35nation came
29:35unconditionally
29:36to stand
29:37with our
29:37country,
29:37which has
29:38not been
29:38the case
29:39in the
29:39past decades
29:40in the
29:41history of
29:41independent
29:42India.
29:43Now,
29:43let me just
29:44say that
29:44when the
29:45BJP
29:45spokesperson
29:45speaks,
29:47you see,
29:47she's taken
29:48just as
29:48seriously as
29:49Mr.
29:49Trump is,
29:50you know,
29:51across your
29:51panelists and
29:52across the
29:53people who
29:53are speaking
29:53outside.
29:55Because you
29:55see when
29:56people say
29:56that who
29:57will take
29:58Trump
29:58seriously,
29:59including a
30:00couple of
30:00our leaders
30:01whose statements
30:02you have
30:02played,
30:03I would like
30:03to remind
30:03you that
30:04you see,
30:05that's also
30:06how some
30:07countries look
30:07at our
30:08Prime Minister.
30:09Also,
30:10Ashutosh ji
30:10has mentioned
30:11in his
30:12citation that
30:14our Prime
30:14Minister went
30:15to the
30:15US.
30:16He did
30:16Namaste
30:17Trump here.
30:17He did
30:18Howdy Modi
30:19there.
30:19You see,
30:20what has he
30:21caused to
30:21us?
30:22I referred
30:22to the
30:23shackled
30:23Indians,
30:24sent plane
30:25after plane,
30:26one plane
30:26after the
30:27other,
30:27three army
30:28planes of the
30:28US sent
30:29carrying
30:31shackled
30:32Indians,
30:32handcuffed
30:33Indians.
30:34They were
30:34fed beef,
30:35they were
30:35fed cow
30:36against their
30:37will.
30:37The BJP
30:38didn't speak
30:39then.
30:39The BJP
30:40doesn't speak
30:40when the
30:41Karachi bakery
30:41is vandalized.
30:42The BJP
30:43doesn't speak
30:44when Colonel
30:44Sophia Qureshi
30:45is bad
30:46mouthed by
30:47one of their
30:48own.
30:48It takes
30:49a high
30:49court of
30:50Madhya Pradesh
30:50to call for
30:52action against
30:53that Minister
30:53of Madhya
30:54Pradesh.
30:55But Prime
30:55Minister,
30:56External
30:56Affairs
30:56Minister,
30:57Defence
30:57Minister,
30:58she can
30:58sit here
30:59and bad
30:59mouth Indira
31:00Gandhi as
31:00much as
31:01the BJP
31:02spokesperson
31:02wants.
31:03The world
31:03knows what
31:04Indira Gandhi's
31:05legacy is.
31:06We do not
31:07need to prove
31:07it to the
31:08likes of her.
31:09All I want
31:09to say is
31:10please...
31:11Ma'am,
31:11your time is
31:12up,
31:12your faders
31:12down.
31:13I'm going
31:13to take one
31:14final submission
31:15from both you
31:15and Sanju
31:16Verma after I
31:16cut across to
31:17both our
31:18political analysts
31:18in the studio
31:19with me is
31:19Mr. Verma
31:20and I'll ask
31:20him that one
31:21question which
31:22many beckon
31:23Karan Verma
31:24and that is
31:24because if
31:25your policy
31:25till now
31:26has been
31:26you know
31:27political policy
31:28especially where
31:29your local
31:30domestic politics
31:31is concerned
31:32after bala
31:32coat is
31:33ghar mein
31:33ghuske
31:33marenge
31:34lal aankh
31:35dikhayenge
31:35optics are
31:36everything.
31:37So at this
31:38point of time
31:38where not
31:39once, not
31:40twice,
31:40thrice over
31:41the President
31:42of the United
31:43States of
31:44America has
31:45publicly
31:45embarrassed you
31:46verbally at
31:47least.
31:48That we only
31:49have the
31:50Ministry of
31:51External Affairs
31:51spokesperson
31:52address one
31:53press conference
31:53should we
31:54have not
31:54taken a
31:55more aggressive
31:55diplomatic
31:56stand?
31:57So Priti,
31:58actions at
31:59the end of
31:59the day,
32:00they speak
32:00much louder
32:01than words
32:01as you also
32:02said right
32:02now.
32:03What are we
32:04doing right
32:05now with
32:05US?
32:06We are
32:06buying
32:06predatory
32:07drones from
32:08them,
32:0831 in
32:09number.
32:09At the same
32:10time,
32:11nobody could
32:12stop us
32:12from buying
32:13oil from
32:13Russia at
32:14a time when
32:14there were
32:15sanctions and
32:15everything in
32:16place.
32:17So India
32:17has tored its
32:18own line.
32:19As you rightly
32:20said at the
32:21beginning,
32:21today we have
32:22a multi-alignment
32:23system.
32:23We are
32:24seeking
32:24construction
32:25projects in
32:26Ukraine right
32:27now while we
32:28buy oil from
32:28Russia, while we
32:29buy predatory
32:31drones from
32:31US.
32:32That is where we
32:33stand as a
32:33nation and we
32:34did not shy from
32:35asking for
32:36retaliatory tariffs
32:37just yesterday in
32:38WTA against the
32:39US on steel and
32:40aluminium.
32:41So you know,
32:42India is walking
32:43the talk,
32:44India is walking
32:44a tight rope and
32:46at the same time,
32:47we don't need to
32:47unnecessarily elbow
32:49someone.
32:49If there is
32:50someone who is
32:51known for
32:51trash-talking and
32:53there is a
32:53rebuttal that
32:54has come from
32:54the spokesperson
32:55of the MEA,
32:56we don't need to
32:57pinch him unnecessarily
32:58just to impress
32:59the Congress
32:59Party.
33:00The Congress
33:00Party has long
33:01lost battles on
33:03the diplomatic
33:03table.
33:04I mean, who can
33:04forget after
33:051971, despite
33:06having 93,000
33:07prisoners of war,
33:08we could not
33:09even negotiate
33:10and end the
33:10problem of
33:11Kashmir once and
33:12for all.
33:12We could have
33:13got back POK at
33:14that point of
33:14time.
33:14We could have
33:15solved the
33:16chicken neck
33:16issue.
33:17So we lost
33:18that battle as
33:19Field Marshal
33:20Sam Manikshar
33:20said.
33:21Indira Gandhi
33:21was fooled,
33:22his words,
33:23at the diplomatic
33:24table by Bhutto.
33:25So rather than
33:26going for this
33:27bluster and
33:28these optics,
33:29at this moment
33:30the Indian
33:31government is
33:32going for
33:32solid deliverables.
33:34We are
33:34fighting a
33:35battle.
33:36At the same
33:36time, we are
33:36growing economically.
33:38Companies today
33:38are shifting from
33:39China.
33:39They are looking
33:40at China plus
33:41one options.
33:42So many of
33:42the US companies
33:43are shifting their
33:43production here.
33:44So we have
33:45to weigh
33:46everything and
33:46that is what
33:47mature leadership
33:48is all about.
33:50It's very easy
33:50for someone to
33:51sit in the
33:52news studio and
33:52say, oh, Mr.
33:54Modi should
33:54take on Donald
33:55Trump.
33:55We need to
33:56walk the talk
33:56and build a
33:57country.
33:58We are going
33:58from strength
33:59to strength.
33:59We have a
34:00lot to lose.
34:00Your time is
34:01up.
34:01I want to go
34:02across to
34:02Ashutosh and
34:03then I'll come
34:03across to
34:04everyone for
34:04one minute each.
34:05But Ashutosh,
34:06so much has
34:07been said.
34:07You've had at
34:08one end, you
34:09know, the
34:10Congress spokesperson
34:10who speaks of
34:11no country or
34:13what was a
34:14potential ally of
34:15India, has
34:15really spoken out
34:16in support of
34:17India.
34:17They all did
34:18speak out,
34:19though, after the
34:20Pehelgham terror
34:20attack, but maybe
34:21not now.
34:22So, you know,
34:23what of India's
34:24diplomacy?
34:25Then, you know,
34:25with what our
34:26political analysts
34:27touched on, and
34:28there's a question
34:28that we've also
34:29asked.
34:30What was earlier
34:31on, a non-alignment
34:32diplomatic policy,
34:34foreign policy, is
34:35now a multi-aligned
34:37foreign policy?
34:38Has it backfired,
34:40Ashutosh?
34:41Because this is
34:42also a time, even
34:43though we've got the
34:44S-400 from Russia,
34:46but would we, could
34:47have done better if
34:49Russia would have
34:49vocally come out in
34:50support, you know,
34:51for India?
34:52But maybe that
34:53didn't happen because
34:54we didn't openly
34:55support Russia with
34:56their conflict of
34:57Ukraine.
34:58We tried to
34:58multi-align with
34:59both Ukraine and
35:00Russia.
35:03Preeti, my
35:04specialization is
35:05foreign policy.
35:06Academically, I'm
35:07talking.
35:08As a professional,
35:09I'm a political
35:10journalist.
35:11I just discovered
35:12that Donald Trump
35:13was a member of
35:14a left liberal
35:15cabal.
35:16I just discovered
35:17this.
35:18Goodness to him
35:19and goodness to
35:20them.
35:21You know, what is
35:21the strong
35:22leadership?
35:24When Mr.
35:24Clinton was
35:25talking to
35:25Atal Vyari
35:26Vajpayee,
35:26Atal Vyari
35:27Vajpayee refused
35:28to listen to him.
35:29He said, first,
35:30you discipline
35:30Nawaz Sharif when
35:31you talk to
35:32me.
35:33Now, what is
35:33happening?
35:34Donald Trump,
35:35American president
35:36is talking and
35:37Mr. Prime
35:37Minister is
35:38listening and
35:38no response.
35:39That's the
35:40difference between
35:41the true leaders.
35:44One is being
35:45talked about on
35:46a daily basis,
35:47sermonized and
35:48no response.
35:50Other pointed,
35:51point blank said,
35:51if we don't
35:52have Pakistan
35:53on one inch
35:54on one inch,
35:54then there will
35:55be no
35:56statement.
35:56That was
35:58Atal Vyari
35:59Vajpayee.
35:59So I had seen
36:00that kind of
36:00leadership.
36:02The issue is
36:02not.
36:03Today what we are
36:03saying,
36:03who we are trying to
36:16fool.
36:17I think the
36:18people are not
36:19fool.
36:20And I can tell you
36:20one thing very
36:21frankly, because I've
36:21been talking to the
36:22BJP leaders, big
36:23leaders, small
36:24leaders, middle
36:25rank leaders, many
36:27of them, 90% of
36:28them are very, very
36:29upset.
36:30You talk to them
36:30off the record.
36:31Even Sanju Verma
36:32will tell you how
36:33upset she is.
36:34But they will not
36:35say because the
36:35prisoner of the
36:36party discipline.
36:37Unfortunate part
36:38is, today India is
36:40humiliated no end on
36:42a daily basis by a
36:43prime, by a
36:44president about whom
36:45the BJP is saying
36:46he's erratic.
36:47That's why it's more
36:48dangerous.
36:49He's not a same
36:50president like Clinton
36:51or the George
36:51Bush.
36:52He's an erratic
36:53president.
36:53An erratic
36:54president is repeating
36:55the same thing four
36:56times, five times.
36:57India has to be
36:58worried.
36:59And as a
36:59country man, I'm
37:01worried.
37:01And I'm worried the
37:02prime minister is not
37:03responding.
37:04Okay.
37:04All right.
37:05I'm going to give
37:06each of you four
37:06one, one minute.
37:08So four minutes, you
37:09know, of air time.
37:11Sanju Verma, final
37:11submissions.
37:12Your one minute
37:13begins now, man.
37:15You know, Preeti, the
37:16Congress spokesperson
37:17spoke about Sophia
37:18Qureshi.
37:19I salute her and
37:21everybody in BJP
37:22does.
37:23I condemn what the
37:23Madhya Pradesh
37:24minister said.
37:25But let me remind
37:26the Congress and
37:27your audience, which
37:28is the largest
37:29stakeholder in
37:29such debates.
37:31After being the
37:32architect of the
37:331971 war, Sam
37:35Manakshar was
37:36humiliated by Indira
37:37Gandhi simply because
37:38he told her,
37:39Guttow made a
37:40monkey out of you.
37:42Sam Manakshar was
37:43not even given his
37:44pension.
37:45The war was in
37:461971.
37:47Sam Manakshar was
37:48finally given his
37:49pension after 36
37:50years in 2007,
37:53thanks to APJ
37:54Abdul Kalam.
37:55When Sam Manakshar
37:56died in 2008, not a
37:58single senior Congress
37:59leader even attended
38:01his last rites.
38:02So, this is the
38:02Congress's
38:03problem here.
38:04People say that
38:06Congress's female
38:07page Pratap
38:08is a
38:09female page.
38:09That's why I don't
38:10want to do it to me,
38:11Prime Minister Modi
38:13has shown Pakistan
38:14and you, as the
38:16Congress here,
38:17have shown you
38:17also.
38:17All right.
38:19One minute, the
38:21Congress post person
38:22gets my message.
38:23Go ahead.
38:25So, Preeti, you
38:29see, China came and
38:32gave unconditional
38:33support to Pakistan.
38:35We saw Turkey and
38:36China coming together
38:37with Pakistan.
38:38you said that
38:39people did speak
38:40for us.
38:42Expressing sympathy
38:43is one thing,
38:44Preeti, and coming
38:45in support of a
38:45country unconditionally
38:47like an impeccable
38:49foreign policy should
38:50reflect is another.
38:51That did not reflect
38:52over the past many
38:53weeks.
38:54And when we saw
38:55the Prime Minister
38:56speak to the
38:58nation after a
38:59much delayed
39:00address to the
39:00nation, what we
39:02saw was a very
39:03fatigued Prime
39:05Minister because he
39:06could not really
39:07capture the situation.
39:09What we saw was
39:10another election
39:10speech.
39:11What we saw was a
39:12BJP star campaigner.
39:14We should have
39:15heard condemnation
39:16for his own people
39:18who took on to
39:20our foreign
39:20secretary.
39:22You see, we saw
39:24Vikram Misri
39:24ji being trolled.
39:26We saw Sophia
39:26Kureshi ji being
39:27trolled.
39:28But the BJP
39:29spokesperson here
39:30completely
39:31Mr. One Ma,
39:31one minute,
39:32final submissions.
39:33So, you know,
39:34Mahima ji time and
39:35again reiterated that
39:36who really came out
39:37unconditionally in
39:38our support?
39:39Well, one country
39:40that has always stood
39:41out unconditionally in
39:42our support has been
39:43Israel.
39:43But your party has
39:45been busy passing
39:45resolutions against it
39:47ever since we can
39:48remember.
39:48In fact, recently,
39:49last year itself.
39:51So, there are people
39:52who have stood with
39:52us.
39:53And let's understand
39:54this, we are not
39:54Pakistan.
39:55A dumpyard which is
39:57ready to be used by
39:58anyone, such dumpyards
40:00get support, whether
40:01it's from China,
40:02whether it's from the
40:03US back then, if we
40:04go back to 1970s.
40:06So, let's not compare
40:07the two.
40:08I think, Preeti, the
40:09Congress party right
40:10now is missing the
40:11forest for the trees.
40:12It could be their
40:12political compulsion.
40:13They must understand
40:14the nation right now
40:15is united for the
40:17fact that we beat
40:18Pakistan and we beat
40:19them and left them
40:20with a bloody nose and
40:21rubbed their head on
40:22the mud.
40:23That's what we did.
40:24So, rather than, you
40:25know, trying to find
40:26out minor details into
40:28it, going into what
40:29Trump said, it doesn't
40:30really matter.
40:31The fact is we hit
40:32them hard.
40:32The MEA spokesperson
40:33has come out in the
40:34open.
40:35Now, we can debate
40:35how much we needed to
40:36rebut him.
40:37But the truth is, we
40:38stand tall and let's be
40:39united in this.
40:40Achyutosh, one minute,
40:41sir.
40:42Go ahead.
40:43You know, what is
40:45emulating Israel?
40:47Israel, despite the
40:48global pressure, refused
40:50to duck.
40:52They are still trying to
40:54teach a lesson to the
40:54Gaza.
40:55I do not agree most of
40:56the time.
40:56But what we did, we just
41:01left the whole battle in
41:03the middle.
41:04And yesterday, only you
41:05had done a show how the
41:07BJP-owned supporters are
41:10very, very angry in a
41:12survey.
41:12It came out in the
41:13survey.
41:14What is the issue today
41:15here is, the issue is
41:16very simple.
41:18And that's what the
41:19great learning for all of
41:20us is.
41:20And look what he did.
41:39So, our whole, whole
41:42understanding of Trump was
41:43so wrong that today we are
41:44being humiliated on a daily
41:46basis.
41:46Your time's up.
41:47You know, I know Sanju
41:48Varma, you want to come in,
41:49but that's all the time I
41:50have for, well, Ashutosh,
41:51you're full of Hindi idioms
41:52today, but we're going to
41:53leave it at that.
41:54This conversation will be
41:56taken on tomorrow because
41:57there'll be multiple
41:58debates, viewers.
41:59We leave it for our
42:00viewers to decide, was
42:02India firm enough
42:03rebutting America?
42:04Or sometimes, you know,
42:06where there are diplomatic
42:07channels involved, you
42:09might have to follow that
42:10a bit instead of being
42:12more muscular in your
42:13approach.
42:14We leave it at that.
42:15Let our viewers decide
42:16where they stand.
42:17Because now that the
42:18fog of war has lifted,
42:19the spotlight on
42:21domestic politics and
42:22what's really come to the
42:23fore, some of it, ugly
42:25commentary attacking no
42:27one else but our own
42:29armed forces.
42:31Colonel Sophia Qureshi
42:32came under verbal attack
42:34by the Tribal Affairs
42:35Minister of Madhya Pradesh,
42:37where he used the most
42:38communal, unsavory
42:39language for her.
42:41The question now, will
42:42the BJP take action?
42:43Colonel Sophia Qureshi and
42:48Wing Commander Vyomika
42:49Singh became the face of
42:50the Defence Forces, holding
42:52daily media briefings during
42:54the India-Pakistan conflict
42:56last week.
42:57Two women from two
42:59different faiths.
43:00The message was simple.
43:02India is united against
43:04terror.
43:06Now, a Madhya Pradesh
43:07minister's statement referring
43:09to Colonel Sophia Qureshi
43:10has sparked a roar.
43:11The Congress staged
43:38protest, demanding the
43:39ministers, sacking.
43:41Udhapam, Murtabam.
43:42Thank you very much.
44:12The minister initially defended the statement.
44:32As political heat mounted, Vijay Shah backtracked.
44:42The Madhya Pradesh High Court stepped in on Wednesday, ordering an FIR against Vijay Shah.
45:06The minister's statement has triggered an unwarranted controversy at a time when the country has put up a united front against Pakistan-sponsored terror.