- 6/11/2025
Congress leader Anand Sharma discusses India's diplomatic outreach following Operation Sindoor, his party's demand for a special parliament session on Operation Sindoor, Rahul Gandhi's jibe at PM and more.
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00:00And joining me now is one of the senior most members of the all party delegations as part
00:05of the Operation Sindhu diplomatic outreach, former union minister and congress leader
00:10Anand Sharma.
00:11I appreciate your joining us here Mr Sharma.
00:14You met the prime minister yesterday, he met all the delegations.
00:18There is a sense that while all of you were united abroad, you are divided at home.
00:25Is that the impression you got after meeting the prime minister or do you believe that
00:28there is unanimity over what India should do post-Operation Sindhu?
00:33I think India speaks in one voice.
00:35India spoke in one voice.
00:36Abroad or domestically?
00:38Even domestically, if you look at when the terror attack took place, all the parties stood together.
00:44All the political parties including the Indian national congress which I represent, working
00:49committee met immediately, not once but three times during the military conflict too.
00:55And unequivocal solidarity.
00:58There was no ifs and buts and also the support to our defence forces and their action.
01:04So that is not the issue on which there were differences.
01:08We are different political parties and that is the beauty and strength of a multi-party
01:14parliamentary democracy.
01:16So we have our own ideologies, our own views.
01:20You cannot have a democracy where there is uniformity or imposed uniformity.
01:23Sure.
01:24But you see the thing is you went for example to four countries and I heard what you said
01:29in South Africa where you commended our security forces for acting with great restraint.
01:34On the other hand when I hear some of the comments that are emanating from your own party here,
01:39there is a sense that your party is now increasingly critical of the Narendra Modi government's handling,
01:45particularly of the post-cease fire politics.
01:51Rahul Gandhi has gone as far as saying Narendra surrender.
01:56So your leader is saying we virtually surrendered to American pressure for a cease fire.
02:01You've gone abroad to take India's case.
02:03Was there no dissonance as a result?
02:05What you are calling democracy is also dissonance.
02:08We were part of the global outreach to inform, sensitize and mobilize global public opinion
02:18in support of India, its people and in our fight against terror.
02:22There cannot be true views on that.
02:24So it was a very, very clear message that we wanted to give.
02:30On this issue, I don't think either Rahul Gandhi is thinking differently or the Indian National
02:36Congress is thinking.
02:37No political party in India because we all have taken collective position.
02:42Now when it comes to democracies are rather noisy.
02:48People have views, perceptions.
02:50Even in 1962 when Atal Bihari Bajpeji as a very young MP wrote to Jawaharlal Nehru in the
02:58midst of a war, convened a special session.
03:01So all these issues which are raised, I am sure the opposition will ask questions.
03:06The government will respond to them.
03:08So you are saying there is a distinction between unanimity on terror and Pakistan sponsored
03:16terror versus possibly differences perhaps of the way we have handled the cease fire.
03:23How do you explain Rahul Gandhi's Narendra Saranda committee?
03:27No, I did not talk to him about this.
03:29So I am not in a position, not qualified because I was traveling abroad.
03:34Does it not send mixed signals?
03:36I was traveling abroad.
03:37I am sure that parliament session, it should be convened.
03:41They should discuss all this and the transparency matters.
03:45The government would respond and should respond because look at in any military conflict,
03:51the governments do come out finally with the details, not in combat situation.
03:56So I hope…
03:57Because your leader wants to know, for example, how many jets have been fell.
04:01He wants to know about whether the external affairs minister Mr. Jai Shankar through his statements
04:07and effectively forewarned Pakistan.
04:09Now, all of this is being picked up globally and in Pakistan.
04:12I am not going to get into that.
04:15I would rather focus on the purpose for which I went as a part of the delegation
04:20because I have been traveling abroad most of the time.
04:23Okay, so given, as you said, you want to focus on the purpose for which you went.
04:27I even have Jairam Ramesh, your spokesperson, Congress spokesperson saying these delegations
04:34are weapons of mass distraction.
04:36They are in a way a cover up for the government's own failings to take India's point diplomatically.
04:43Therefore, you need these all party delegations because what diplomat should have done
04:47is now being done by politicians.
04:49Well, he has his view.
04:51In the past also, leaders of opposition have been requested by successive prime ministers
04:58to speak for India in difficult situations.
05:01Indira ji had requested Atul Bihari Vajpayee ji and other opposition leaders.
05:09When the East Pakistan crisis came, there was genocide, rape, pillage, plunder there by the Pakistan army
05:16and we had 10 million refugees in India.
05:19U.S. 7th Fleet had come to the Bay of Bengal and the war was imminent.
05:25But finally, India's special envoys went to different world capitals
05:31and many of them were eminent world opposition leaders.
05:35There were other occasions when Rajiv Gandhi as prime minister also requested incent.
05:40Right.
05:41So, the UN session itself shifted to Geneva.
05:43Right.
05:44And Rajiv Gandhi as prime minister nominated Atul Bihari Vajpayee.
05:45And Rajiv Gandhi as prime minister nominated Atul Bihari Vajpayee.
05:49That is true.
05:50That is true.
05:51There was another two occasions when Rajiv Gandhi as prime minister had sent me to accompany
05:56Atul Bihari Vajpayee.
05:57Right.
05:58Once was when a special UN session had to be convened in Geneva on Palestine when Arafat
06:04was refused U.S. visa.
06:06So, the UN session itself shifted to Geneva.
06:09Right.
06:10And Rajiv Gandhi as prime minister nominated Atul Bihari Vajpayee.
06:14And instructed me to accompany him for the UN session.
06:21So, twice actually I accompanied.
06:23So, what you are saying is what happened is not unusual.
06:25Prime minister Modi in a way has followed what previous prime ministers have done.
06:28You don't agree with Jairam Ramesh when he says they have weapons of mass destruction.
06:32That's his view.
06:33Presumably you.
06:34I think we are informed people nominated by at least I can say nominated by my party leadership.
06:41And I have done what my party and government both wanted to speak for India.
06:46You know, in fact it's interesting.
06:47You are one of the few leaders who was nominated both by your party and the government.
06:51But, you know, look at Sashi Tharoor's plight.
06:54He speaks out for India like you did.
06:56But he is accused of being a super spokesperson of the BJP by your own party.
07:01Is that something that you are comfortable with when these comments are made?
07:04Listen, speaking for India is a national duty.
07:09That doesn't mean that back home we have changed colors.
07:15I can say for myself.
07:17I have committed to a particular philosophy and ideology all my life.
07:21That's where I am.
07:22So, I can speak only for myself.
07:24Sir, how was the meeting with the prime minister which you all had, the high tea that you had with the prime minister?
07:30Was there a sense of complete solidarity with the government?
07:36Because that is something that has been missing in our politics in recent times.
07:40Politics has become very hyper polarized.
07:42It is. It is. It has become.
07:43So, did you sense that there was a sense of solidarity cutting across party lines?
07:47Yes. When it comes to India's national security and the fight against terror, it was clearly there.
07:52So, the mood was positive and united.
07:54Oh, yes. On this issue, there cannot be two views. There cannot be two groups.
07:59But yet, you believe that questions will be asked presumably of the government.
08:03I am sure. Now that you are backed, you believe questions have to…
08:05You are an opposition party leader. Will questions be asked?
08:08Come a parliament session, that will happen. And that is actually…
08:11It should be accepted with respect. It is not something sensational.
08:16In a democracy, questions are asked. Name one country where questions are not asked.
08:21If you are an autocracy, like China, questions will not be asked.
08:24Then we are a democracy. Sure. And it should be taken in that spirit.
08:28If the government is asked questions, the government should welcome questions from the opposition.
08:34That gives an opportunity actually to the Prime Minister and the government to respond.
08:38Sure. And clear any doubts.
08:42Okay. You know, you went to countries, Anand Sharmaji, like South Africa, you have strong relations.
08:49At a personal level, you are involved with the ANC struggle, Ethiopia, African Union.
08:54But a couple of the countries, Qatar, Egypt, part of OIC.
08:59These are countries that have always raised the issue of Kashmir, human rights.
09:05Did you get a sense that these countries are also solidly behind India?
09:08Because one of the concerns is most of these countries are condemning terror.
09:12But they are not directly condemning Pakistan.
09:15You see, well, that's true. But there was unequivocal, unreserved condemnation of the terror attacks on India emanating from Pakistan.
09:27So that there was no, not even a shadow of doubt which we had.
09:32Yes, there were concerns because Pakistan also has its own massive disinformation campaign on.
09:39And they always are in a state of denial.
09:42But Pakistan's signature is there or presence is felt or shadow.
09:47Not in case of terror attacks on India, but anywhere else in the world.
09:52Finally, where was Osama bin Laden caught?
09:55America was hunting for him.
09:57Not anywhere else but in Abbottabad in Pakistan.
10:00Terror attacks in London, Amsterdam, then Madrid.
10:06I can go on. It's a long list. Long list for us. Long list for the world.
10:11Where people of Pakistani origin who have been designated as terrorists were involved in those bombings and attacks.
10:17Have these countries realized that? These countries that you visited, have they realized that Pakistan is an epicenter of terror?
10:23What you mentioned to me, did you tell them as well?
10:26Yes, we did. We did. What we want to create is a global awareness.
10:30That's why I said that it was to sensitize and mobilize the global public opinion.
10:36In the global war against terror, I am not saying that India is fighting Pakistan.
10:40Yes. It was Pakistan's choice.
10:42And if I have to give any suggestion or advice, I would request the leadership of Pakistan to reflect, rethink, particularly their deep state.
10:52Because this is not going to give any dividends to Pakistan.
10:55Sir, I just want to come back in a moment to the hyper-polarization.
10:58Because you were part of Manmohan Singh's government. 26-11 happened.
11:02The government then followed a policy of strategic restraint.
11:05The same BJP government of Narendra Modi says,
11:08Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the UPA government was a weak government.
11:12We are the government that is setting a new template against terror.
11:15Do you agree with that? That the Manmohan Singh government of which you were a part was a weak government.
11:20And now we have a strong muscular government. This is what the government says.
11:23You see, sometimes you don't have to shout to be heard.
11:29Dr. Manmohan Singh was a statesman, a very humble man, but a very firm leader.
11:36India's message was heard loud and clear in the world capitals.
11:41I was then a Minister in External Affairs.
11:44And mind you, Rajdeep, I was also the Minister of Information and Broadcasting.
11:4826-11, post that, the government's position and articulation was handled.
11:53I was given the responsibility.
11:56And even to travel to other places where the P5 countries and the foreign ministers of major countries met in Paris on 14th of December.
12:04So, we know what we conveyed, how it was conveyed and the language and how the message registered.
12:11But how would you reconcile what you are just telling me with the manner in which the same Modi government of which you have gone now to speak across the world targets the Congress government of the past?
12:22That is, there should not be any politics.
12:25I was very proud to be a minister with Dr. Manmohan Singh and proud of our track record.
12:30Let me also tell you, at that time, four of the P5 countries stood with India.
12:36Rock solid.
12:38Don't forget that.
12:40India, the kind of world support which India got.
12:43And the country started investigating.
12:45Pakistan was isolated globally.
12:47So, let's not forget, that was not a mean achievement.
12:50No, it's not me who is forgetting it.
12:52It is the government of Narendra Modi, which you are seen to have gone and represented to these global capitals, which questions and targets that the BJP relentlessly targets Manmohan Singh.
13:04Well, you are saying you represented India.
13:07You did not represent Narendra Modi's government government.
13:10We represent the country.
13:11So, have your views changed on Mr. Modi after meeting him yesterday, the solidarity show?
13:16Listen, I don't change.
13:17Is Anand Sharma now convinced that Mr. Modi is very different to the kind of leader Rahul Gandhi sees Narendra Modi as?
13:24Listen.
13:25Each one of us as individuals, we have our perceptions.
13:28They are positives and they are also certain areas of concern.
13:33But, Prime Minister, I would appreciate his gesture of taking an honest feedback from the leaders and parliamentarians who were part of the official delegations.
13:46Naturally, it is the government of the day which will send the delegations.
13:50But, those who constituted the delegations belong to different political parties of the country.
13:57So, that also has to be more divine.
13:58But, don't you think it will be now much more difficult for the opposition to target the Narendra Modi government?
14:03Because the government will say, we were all part of the delegations that went abroad.
14:08Let's now vary the matter.
14:09We don't need any discussion anymore on pehel gama and what happened afterwards.
14:13I don't think it is democracy's work like that.
14:16You have followed parliament sessions and how quiet they are, you know that too.
14:22So, I leave it to the parliamentarians.
14:25They would be very much within their democratic right and exercising it to ask questions and the government is duty bound to respond there.
14:34Just a couple of more questions.
14:35You have been one of the senior most congresspersons.
14:37You were in youth congress president in the early 80s.
14:40What would your advice be to Rahul Gandhi?
14:43Would your advice be that he has got to be careful in the kind of words and language he uses?
14:48Because then, he effectively is seen as the voice of the congress party.
14:53So, when he says Narendra surrender, does it in a way diminish the congress party and it stand?
15:00Suggesting that the prime minister has surrendered in some form.
15:04Rajdeep, it is not for me to give any advice.
15:08You are one of the senior most leaders.
15:11It is not for me to advise. Rahul Gandhi is the leader of the opposition.
15:16He has his own style and it is wrong for me to even suggest that way.
15:23Now, when the parliament session comes, you know, surely he has a right to speak as the LOP and the government is willing to respond.
15:36Would you have any advice for Prime Minister Modi?
15:39Mr. Modi, would you suggest how should we move forward in isolating Pakistan, something that we have been unable to do?
15:48Let's be very clear. We have still not been able to isolate Pakistan and convince the world that it is the epicenter of terror.
15:55So, how should we go forward? I think we have been able to convince more or less about Pakistan being the epicenter of terror.
16:02There is no doubt on that. Now, this is the same country which the United Nations has now made a co-chairman of the counter-terrorism committee.
16:11That is most unfortunate because Pakistan lacks the credentials, credibility, its track record is pockmarked.
16:18So, that is something which shocked me also when I heard about it. We were travelling and which, again, India will have to raise its voice and talk to the partner countries, the strategic partners.
16:33Because it is not only India's fight. Fight is against terror. It is a global scourge. I named many world capitals.
16:41But let's not forget many regions of Africa or West Asia, in the Middle East, there is terrorism and there is India's resolution which is pending.
16:51Some actions have been taken. There is some unresolved issue on the definition of terrorism at the UN, but comprehensive international convention against terror is pending.
17:03What India has to do is to mobilize support to make it effective and also the FATF, the Financial Action Task Force.
17:09When Pakistan was in the grey list, Pakistan should be pushed back into that grey list so that it becomes responsible.
17:16On one hand, Pakistan goes with the begging board. Pakistan goes to IMF, World Bank, ADB and then they divert those funds either to fund terrorism or to buy weapons.
17:26That is for the deep state.
17:28Would you like to see a special session of parliament being called as your party is calling for?
17:32There was no reason why it should not have been.
17:34You believe there is every reason for it?
17:36That is for democracy.
17:38Okay, so on for.
17:39In conclusion, would you therefore say your all party delegations have been successful?
17:44Yes, they have been.
17:45In sending out India's message loud and clear?
17:47Loud and clear.
17:48And I would also say I have a message for everyone.
17:52Yes.
17:53As somebody who loves his country, who has been in public life.
17:59I have seen, I am fortunate and blessed to have seen the times of Indra Dandi, Atul Bahri Bajbay, Dr. Manmohan Singh, worked in parliament for long and known also the leaders of other parties.
18:17Ideological differences are the essence of democracy.
18:23Debate, disagreements are also integral to democratic dialogue and narrative.
18:32They should never be made personal.
18:34Never, ever.
18:35That is what I saw when we were there and amongst the leaders of that period.
18:41That even if they had the sharpest of exchanges at personal level, the relationship was always warm.
18:49That is what I wish to happen in this country.
18:51Very, very sound words there from one of the senior politicians of this country and a member of that all party delegation that went to different countries.
19:01Anand Sharma for joining me here on India Today.
19:04Thank you so much.
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