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LifestyleTranscript
00:00All right. Well, I got to start with what got you into this race in the first place, both as a team and as a fan.
00:08I'm super curious, especially coming from the same household.
00:11Were you one of these families that grew up with the amazing race?
00:15And if so, was it always in the cards for the two of you to race together on the show?
00:21Yeah, I'm going to give a lot of credit to my brother for this one.
00:25I think like we're literally just two kids that love to play and to have fun.
00:31And growing up, our father actually introduced to us the race like in, I would say, middle school and high school.
00:38And Holden and I, like when we first watched it, like we love adventure and we just knew that like we would do it with each other.
00:44Did we think thoroughly through that decision?
00:49But the vibes were definitely there.
00:51And then just flashback to this past year or like the year, the year that we did the race.
01:01Holden wasn't studying for finals as he does and decided to instead watch a lot of the amazing race.
01:09And I was on a career sabbatical, just like solo traveling, backpacking, finding myself.
01:15And Holden, I remember like it was in December and he came up to me and he was like, Han, like we can take home the million.
01:23And I was like, yeah, sure, whatever.
01:26And he's like, let's just do it.
01:27And so we put a we put a casting video together and one thing led to another.
01:31And I ended up canceling like my upcoming travel plans.
01:35And Holden didn't study.
01:37And did you fail that class?
01:39I didn't do well.
01:41That's like the high holding story you scraped by.
01:44La Cucaracha wins again.
01:46Exactly.
01:47Exactly.
01:47That motto extends beyond the race.
01:50Well, let's fast forward here from the beginning to the end because, yeah, you found yourself in the final three.
01:56And look, you expressed it.
01:58I talked with Carson Jack.
01:58They expressed it as well.
01:59Like, hey, a water based leg in Miami.
02:03The wins perhaps were not in your favor in terms of sailing, but might have been from a task perspective.
02:08So talk me through sort of your headspace throughout that day.
02:13You know, once, Han, you get through that roadblock and you see that Carson and Jack are ahead of them.
02:17What was sort of your mentality once you start slowly seeing that maybe it's not going to end in a win for the two of you?
02:26Yeah, I think something that honestly was our biggest enemy throughout this race.
02:30I think there were a lot of other teams that were stronger than us just because they had the life experience of working together previously.
02:39And we literally had never worked together.
02:42Like, that is not an exaggeration.
02:45And so, like, I think, like, we could have perceived our biggest enemies as, like, other racers.
02:52But I think the way that we thought about it was, like, we were really navigating self-doubt.
02:57We were really navigating foster syndrome.
02:59And so I think when we actually got to the final leg, not only were we super surprised in ourselves, but I think that when we found out it was water, it was just this, as opposed to viewing it as an opportunity to have so much fun, which is what got us this far in the first place.
03:17We instead viewed it as, like, we instead viewed it as, like, this big weighted pressure of, like, Han and Holden could, like, win this for something bigger than ourselves.
03:26And not to plug my substack, but I am going to release a blog post expressing all of this later today.
03:31But I think after hoverboarding, that's something I should have crushed in my sleep.
03:39Like, that was a challenge that I think really fit my strengths very well.
03:44And I think I wasn't ever thinking about it in terms of, like, oh, shoot, Jack and Carson are so far ahead.
03:51I was thinking about it in terms of, like, why couldn't Han have been good enough this one time?
03:57Or, like, this was, like, a challenge that, like, I should have crushed and I wanted to do it for my brother.
04:02And I just perceived myself as, like, a failure.
04:06And then that mindset, I'm not saying it carried through throughout the rest of the leg, but I think it did impact us.
04:13And, like, my head wasn't clear and we ended up hitting another car.
04:17You know what I mean?
04:18So I think, like, although we did have home field advantage, it just wasn't enough to overcome the self-doubt, which was, like, our true enemy throughout the entire race.
04:28But at the end of the day, like, Holden and I are just so grateful for this experience.
04:32Like, we watched that leg back and, like, yes, we did have, like, those what ifs.
04:37But I think the majority of, like, the feelings that we have are just, like, we're just so freaking proud of ourselves.
04:44Like, never working together and learning how to work together in three weeks with a million dollars on the line?
04:50Like, under extreme pressure?
04:51That's insane.
04:52So.
04:53All right.
04:54I mean, what I find so incredibly intriguing about even just entering this race is that, you know, this, on average, was the oldest cast in Amazing Race history.
05:02You two are very much the exception to the rule.
05:06And you speak about, Hans, sort of, like, your life experience working together.
05:09But I'm curious, Holden, do you feel that there was, like, a life experience kind of deficiency in terms of, like, how many teams do we hear say, oh, yeah, I've done this in the past.
05:20I've done a little bit of that.
05:21Did you find that your youth worked for or against you more on the race?
05:25Oh, your youth is, like, it works against you.
05:28I think, like, a thought experiment is this.
05:30It's, like, if you think about, like, you don't really see young teams.
05:35Well, I feel like they don't really articulate who's young.
05:37It's kind of something that's out after.
05:39But, like, when you see, like, an older team, like, it's not a surprise when older teams really succeed on the race.
05:44And I think that, like, it's, like, initially surprising if you haven't had the exposure to race.
05:49But, like, over time, you kind of build up, like, Bill and Kathy are, like, Meredith and Gretchen are teams that, like, that exceed all expectation.
05:57And I think that, like, if you look at them, right, like, the whole season teams are, like, all right, at some point they're going to drop and we're going to beat them.
06:03And, like, they'll be yesterday's news.
06:05But they're able to really hang in there because they have so much life experience.
06:09And it's not because, like, they've hoverboarded in their lives before or because they've done mozzarella before.
06:15It's, like, for, like, the simple fact that they have navigated how hard life is.
06:23At 21, you do not navigate that much of life.
06:26Like, here's the, like, during COVID, I was a junior in high school.
06:30During COVID, Mark and Brett were, like, working together to make sure that, like, their, like, like, their careers were still on track because of the global pandemic.
06:39You know, like, Alyssa and Josiah were, like, like, frontline workers for the pandemic.
06:43Like, I was just, like, man, I hope my apie chemistry test goes well online.
06:47Like, it wasn't, like, it wasn't real.
06:49And I think that, like, because we were so young, we lacked that, like, high-pressure experience, just that, like, life naturally gives you.
06:58Um, which is, yeah, I think, I think definitely hurts you a lot.
07:03But I do, I don't want to discount our wisdom and our life experience.
07:08Like, though time definitely is a huge contributor to wisdom, I do feel like for our age and, like, a lot of our success doesn't count to, like, a lot of perseverance that we've gone through, like, in our lives.
07:23Like, being the children of first-generation immigrants, I'm not saying, like, I'm not going to compare to my parents who literally fled war and all we had to do was, like, hop on a school bus and, like, go to school.
07:33So, but, like, I feel like there was a lot that we had to navigate, and I think we could have really, really, really slayed if we had five more years under our belt.
07:44Yeah.
07:44That's what I'm saying.
07:45I think, like, personally, my real win is, like, in the Singapore airport before, not, like, we had a layover in Singapore.
07:51And Mark said to me, he was, like, like, he learned that I was 21.
07:56He went, oh, my God, Holden, you're 21.
07:58If I was 21 doing the race, I would have been a mess.
08:01And I was, like, oh, my gosh.
08:02Like, does that mean I'm not a mess right now?
08:05No.
08:05Listen, it could be, again, it could be a lot worse.
08:08There are a lot worse 21-year-olds that could perform on the race, to your point.
08:12And so I think that, like, I think that was a nice win for both of us, and, like, knowing that, like, hey, we're the youngest team here.
08:17But, like, it's, like, teams are still, like, giving us, like, some, like, giving us respect.
08:22I wouldn't even see some.
08:23Well, let's talk about how things start for the Tubi, because your narrative throughout was sort of, maybe to that educational aspect, learning on the fly.
08:33You had a real crash course early on.
08:36And there, you know, it seems like from our perspective, there's a couple things, right, Han?
08:39You talked about your perfectionism.
08:40There's this idea of, like, you sort of, like, commit to doing one thing, and then you immediately say, no, we got to do this other thing.
08:45Now, what would you say were some of the biggest obstacles the two of you faced in those initial legs?
08:51And how did that inform, as you talked about on the show, what you had to learn moving forward?
08:57I think that going into the race, we kind of went into it.
09:01We didn't know anyone who had done the race.
09:02Like, there was no reference that we could, like, base it off of.
09:04It was only what we saw on TV.
09:06And, like, when you're playing couch quarterback, you're kind of like, I could make that throw.
09:11And then when you actually play the game, you're like, whoa, this moves really fast, and everyone is really good.
09:15And so I think that it wasn't, we had a lot of deficiencies, but I think, like, our strategy, personally, was, like, at the end of each leg, we were very, very, very critical of our performance.
09:26But we would only really try to tweak and work on one thing, while maintaining everything else that we had worked on.
09:33So, like, after the first leg, we had finished fifth out of seven in that fork in the road.
09:38And, like, what we wanted to work on was just being a lot more urgent, because I think we played a very entitled, like, first leg.
09:44And then after that, we tried, like, trusting our decisions more.
09:47And then after that, like, we really, really tried stepping up.
09:50And, like, there was something that we could work on after each leg.
09:52Like, and that, like, that was really our strategy.
09:55If I had my journal on me, I think I could tell you each thing.
09:57I also do feel like something that we really, really prioritized was, I remember after the first leg, it was so freaking hard.
10:05And I looked at Holden, and I kind of was like, I don't really want to do this anymore.
10:10And I looked at Holden, and I was like, why do you want to do this?
10:14And he was like, we will never get to experience the world in this way ever again.
10:23And I, like, that's, and I haven't told him this, but that seriously stuck with me, like, as we went through legs.
10:27Because I realized how incredible this opportunity was.
10:30And, like, honestly, I seriously think a huge part of our strategy was to really just enjoy the moment, play loose, and have some fun.
10:39And I think that really does come across, like, even when we're dead last in Italy, like, we're just so grateful and, like, understanding of how sick the situation was.
10:50And I also think, like, yes, like, there was definitely a lot of strategy behind the scenes in terms of, like, how can Han and Holden do better?
10:56But I also do think something that contributed to our success is, like, our parents are super scrappy, first-generation Vietnamese immigrants that came from nothing.
11:06Like, if they didn't have the skill set of knowing how to adapt to situations very quickly, like, who knows where we would have been.
11:15And I think, like, trusting in that ability in terms of, like, learning to learn on the fly, because that's all we've done with our entire lives, was also important.
11:24And I think, I'm not sure if it really comes across, like, on TV, because that's a skill that, like, I don't think is as flashy.
11:31But I think we're, like, D1 adaptability-ers.
11:34Yeah.
11:34Like, we slay at adapting.
11:36Yeah, we'd be playing in the SEC of D1 adaptability.
11:40Yeah, I mean, what I think is also, you know, a nice skill that comes with not a nice circumstance is the fact that because you were oftentimes scrapping to avoid elimination,
11:50I would imagine it steeled you a little bit, too, right, where you're like, yep, Han and Holden trying to fight to avoid last.
11:56We've been here before.
11:57We know how to do it.
11:58You even talk about this, Han, on the show as well.
12:00So I imagine that even if the circumstance that kept popping up wasn't ideal, it wasn't your first time doing it.
12:07And so you were less likely to kind of, like, fly off the handle.
12:09Oh, my God, this is my first time in the bottom.
12:11What do I do?
12:12Yeah, absolutely.
12:13That's something that we were thinking about actively in the race was that, like, a lot of the teams, yeah, they had their struggles.
12:19But I think that, like, you are put through the fire and forged when you're constantly under pressure of being last.
12:26And something that we knew or we felt in our heart of hearts was, like, look, some team has to also be on the bottom with us, just mathematically.
12:34Some, like, top five, we're going to be in fifth.
12:37Someone's going to be in fourth.
12:38They're going to feel the heat.
12:39But, like, we know what this heat feels like.
12:42And, like, over time, like, we knew that, like, it was honestly not necessarily going to get easier.
12:47But, like, we could trust in ourselves knowing that, like, hey, like, this is our home.
12:52Like, we're La Cucaracha.
12:53Like, we scram on the bottom.
12:55And, like, we've been here before.
12:56It's, like, not foreign.
12:57And I think that was really helpful.
12:58And I think we really trust, like, after the second leg, Holden and I just really trusted in our ability to tortoise our way to the finale.
13:07Like, that was our strategy.
13:09We're, like, we're not going to take huge risks.
13:10We're going to just slow and steady truly wins the race.
13:14And I also think, like, when we were looking at our competition, it is important to size up your competition.
13:20And, like, like we said before, we didn't have the years.
13:23And, like, there's a lot, like, Mark and Brett cracked at challenges.
13:26Like, they came into sumo when they were on the bottom with us in five minutes and they left.
13:30And we were probably there for, like, 45 minutes.
13:32We were there for, like, an hour and a half.
13:33An hour and a half.
13:34We were there for a long time.
13:36But I think something that, like, we knew we could do was, like, we had, like, the level-headedness, even though sometimes it doesn't come across that way.
13:43Like, like, the grit and the stamina to outlast our competition.
13:47Like, we were playing Survivor on the Amazing Race straight up.
13:50Yeah.
13:51As long as it's not you.
13:52Well, the last thing I want to ask is the fact that, as you both talked about both here and on screen, like, the two of you have never worked together before in this capacity.
14:01And there was even a period of time of, what, like, seven years where you were kind of barely in each other's lives.
14:06And we got to see a bit of you sort of sorting out that dynamic on the race in those intense moments.
14:12But what did you learn the most about the other person racing around the world together?
14:17Holden, we'll start with you.
14:19Oh, wow.
14:23My sister is just good, you know?
14:25She's, like, she's pretty good.
14:27But, like, yeah, like, I think you can reliably depend on her.
14:33I think that, like, in the finale, like, I think she didn't give herself very much grace.
14:36Like, personally, I don't think I would have given myself very much grace with a million dollars on the line.
14:41And, like, knowing that, like, this is your challenge.
14:44But, like, yeah, it's a, like, it seems like a disappointing result.
14:50But in the end, she did it in as many attempts as Jack and Carson.
14:54And Jack and Carson are a really good team.
14:56So, like, yeah, if it's a different day, maybe she finishes it in, like, six attempts rather than 21.
15:01But at the same time, like, if this is, like, her worst part of the spectrum, she's still doing it as well as, like, the team that won.
15:09And that's pretty good.
15:10And, like, you can apply that to, like, every other challenge as well.
15:13Yeah.
15:14Han, what about you?
15:14I'm just really proud of my brother, like, genuinely.
15:18I think he really was a rock for me in so many cases when, like, we only had each other to rely on.
15:28And he is so strong and has so much grit and so much heart.
15:34And he, like, I don't know.
15:37There's so many proud moments I have of the race that literally I'm starting to tear up right now.
15:41But, like, just thinking about him crush Bulgarian cardio, like, watching him, like, get knighted.
15:49My short king.
15:51Get knighted.
15:52Like, crush that juggling, like, in Kyoto with such joy.
15:58I just, like, am so proud of the person my brother is, even though he is a huge pain in my behind.
16:05But I love him so much, and I'm just so proud of him.
16:09That's so incredible to hear.
16:11I mean, look, again, this is obviously the second most ideal outcome.
16:15I'm not even sure how much time was between you and Carson and Jack in the anime.
16:20I'm not sure if you even know at this point.
16:21Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, like, that car crash, we were, that was, it doesn't come across as, like, as long as it was.
16:30It was, I think we were probably there for 30 minutes.
16:33At least.
16:33At least.
16:34At least.
16:35The fact that we were even able, like, Holden was able to sweet talk his way out in Spanish.
16:40Like, insane.
16:41Like, getting second with the car crash, we ate, all right?
16:44That's the thing.
16:45It's like, listen, forgive me for being too literal, but, like, your race could have been a car crash, you know?
16:50Like, from the beginning, considering how untested your dynamic was, but through your skills, be it a little bit of Spanish in the last minute or the fact that you were so resilient and able to learn on the fly, you made it all the way to frickin' second place on the amazing race.
17:03And I think a lot of the stuff you said on the mat.
17:05Yeah, exactly.
17:06And a lot of stuff you told me today, like, I think it resounds a lot for not only how proud you should be of your journey, but, like, how proud you are, understandably so, of each other.
17:15And it was so incredible to watch, because I think it also teaches a lot of teams as well that, like, no, you can learn on the fly.
17:23You can beat the Terminators on the amazing race.
17:26You can beat Skynet if you have the resilience and the skills to do so.
17:29So thank you both so much for everything you brought to this season, for everything you brought to me today.
17:34This was an absolute pleasure.
17:36Thank you so much, Mike.
17:37Pleasure meeting you.
17:38Yeah, you as well.
17:39All the best to you and yours and your parents, and have a great day.
17:42Thank you so much again.
17:42Have a nice day, Mike.
17:45You too.
17:45Bye-bye.