- 6/5/2025
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Well, let's get into it because we got a lot to dig into. Warts and all, Kyle. Or maybe it's a callus. I guess to start, I mean, it's got to be this victory. Congratulations, man. I know that it was a decisive one, but I guess the question I want to ask is how decisive was it for you going into everything?
00:20Obviously, we'll get into a lot of the things that you made public that was quite private at Final Tribal Council. But once everything happened with the closing statements, what did you think your chances were of taking home the million?
00:34Yeah, that's tough. I thought maybe it was like 70, 70 percent. The jury was very receptive to me. I was very scared because I did play under the shadows, you know, in the shadows, undercover sort of game.
00:45And it's hard to communicate things. People talk about all the time. You can play an incredible game, but if you can't communicate it to the jury or they're not receptive, then it can blow back in your face.
00:54I felt strong. I felt strongly that I deserve the win. But I was also with two other people sitting there who played a great game as well.
01:02So it was hard, but it was intentional. And I'm proud that the jury was receptive.
01:06Were there any jury votes one way or the other that surprised you when everything came in?
01:10Yeah, you know, it was tough for me. They didn't show a lot of the relationships that I had with a lot of the jury members.
01:16You know, there's only so much time. We all have so many relationships.
01:19Cedric and I got very close in the short amount of time we were together.
01:21Chrissy and I, you know, I had to write her name down. David.
01:24David probably surprised me the most because David and I had a very, very close relationship on that island.
01:30And that vote was very hard for me, and I'm sure it was hard for him.
01:34We've talked about it. So that one surprised me. I'm really, really happy that he still decided to reward my game.
01:39Yeah. So let's get into this final Tribal Council, because to your point, you came in knowing that you had to shine a light on some of the stuff that you were doing in the shadows.
01:50And it looks certainly from our perspective, like all of us, probably including yourself, were just waiting for the Shaheen little tidbit to come in here to undermine Joe and Eva.
01:58That was the entire tension behind the move in the first place.
02:01So talk to me about when you decided to deploy it.
02:06You know, was it as simple as was it shown as like, all right, Camilla is going to set you up.
02:10And now that's the alley oop, the roles have reversed.
02:12Yeah, well, I mean, it's tough. It goes back to the beginning of the merge for me.
02:15I'll be completely honest with you. I got to the merge. I just played an idol.
02:19So I had convinced people to let me still be in the majority alliance, and I just won the first challenge of the season.
02:24I was the first person to get merged. So I really was like, I just want to sit back and get to the end.
02:29But as the game progresses, you know, I got past the Caleb point and then I'm starting to get into Omer, Ricard, Jesse point.
02:35And then I get past that. Now I'm like, I need to explain my game.
02:39I'm the Caleb Austin archetype. And I'm like, I know I'm proud of the game that I played.
02:43I think I deserve to win, but I need one more thing to show the jury. I need something concrete evidence, you know, I'll put my lawyer hat on.
02:50And that's what that was. You know, it's shocking. And I were very close, too.
02:54So that was an incredibly hard vote. But at that point, I knew I was going for it.
02:58And I was going to give them one last thing to I wasn't leaving anything to chance.
03:02I deserved to win the game. And that was my move to sort of give it to them to reward me.
03:07Well, what I was so intrigued by was following your journey was obviously this incredibly open balance you had between strategic and personal.
03:15And again, you kept a lot of things very private in this game.
03:20Obviously, we'll get into the strategic side with Camilla, but even details like your lawyer career or, you know, your past incarcerations.
03:28What I found so intriguing was that there were a couple of moments this season where you would reveal these pieces of information on a one on one basis.
03:35Right. You would sit down with Joe and talk about your past. You talked to Camilla about being a lawyer before day 26.
03:42Divulging those pieces of information to you in the moment, was that more strategic or more personal?
03:48Entirely personal, if I'm being completely honest.
03:51There was a conversation that was shown on Nuvula between Joe Shaheen and Camilla that was really powerful.
03:57I didn't share much in that moment because I didn't think it was my time.
04:00But Joe and I had a very close relationship on that island.
04:03Again, only 90 minutes, so you can only show so much.
04:05But we had a lot of conversations about race at length, what it's like to be a black man in America, to be completely frank with you.
04:13His dad was incarcerated and we had talked about that.
04:16And so it was really nice for me to be able to share that with him.
04:20And I'm glad that I did.
04:21The lawyer piece with Camilla, that was strategic, actually.
04:24You know, that was shown in a emotional moment.
04:26But, you know, I just kicked out Mary.
04:29I just kicked out Star.
04:30All of us did.
04:30Not just me.
04:31I'm not going to own that myself.
04:33But every single one of the people that was going out of the game told me, you're giving it to Joe.
04:37You're giving it to Joe.
04:37And I'm like, how can it be when I just played the idol?
04:40Trick people to be in the majority alliance.
04:41Like, is nobody seeing this?
04:42And I asked Camilla, honestly, a moment of weakness.
04:46I was like, does it move the needle with you in regards to me versus Joe if you know that I'm a lawyer?
04:51Does it mean anything?
04:52And Camilla was like, whatever.
04:55You know, she was like, it's okay.
04:56But that was strategic.
04:57Camilla and I were constantly thinking about what equity do we have?
05:01Do I have a chance of winning this game?
05:03And to hear that somebody else has a better chance than you when they're leaving the game over and over and over again, it was kind of getting in my head.
05:09But I trusted myself.
05:10I was proud of the game that I played.
05:11And I wanted to represent myself against the biggest threat in the game.
05:14And that's what I did.
05:15Yeah.
05:15Talk to me more about that.
05:17Because, you know, it seems like you have, to your credit about your maneuvering and positioning,
05:22myriad opportunities to maybe pull the trigger on a Joe and an Eva.
05:26Talk to me through your logic as to why you decided to keep them through to Day 26.
05:31Was it as simple as, I know I can beat them in the end?
05:34Or was it more of what you were saying of, like, to be the best, you got to beat the best?
05:38Yeah, you know, it's funny because I had that confessional about, like, Survivor being a game that you win in the margins.
05:43And I think that it is.
05:45I think that my game was nuanced, you know.
05:46In real life, my family members and friends accused me of being emotionally unavailable.
05:50Yet, somehow, I was the most emotional guy on that island.
05:53But emotion and strategy overlapped for me every single day out there.
05:58Again, I went into the merge just playing an idol.
06:01We hadn't seen Rachel's season.
06:02I think, in my mind, I'm the first successful idol play of the season.
06:05I have now tricked everybody into believing that it was completely coincidental.
06:09Camille and I weren't working together.
06:10I'm in the majority alliance.
06:12And I win challenges.
06:13Yet, nobody was talking about me.
06:15So, at that point, I thought maybe I could get to the end of the game without having to do anything and complete my case.
06:21At the same time, you have to continue to do things that are hard emotionally.
06:26You know, I played the middle very, very hard.
06:28You know, I was in the majority alliance.
06:30But everybody in the minority also thought that I was with them.
06:32And the way that I kind of viewed my role was, like, I told everybody to get in the Trojan horse.
06:37And I'm like, it's coming.
06:38It's coming.
06:38It's coming.
06:39But I'd, like, slowly open the door.
06:41And I'd be like, ah, maybe tomorrow.
06:43You know?
06:43Because I kind of liked the position that I was in.
06:46Maybe it's because I'm non-confrontational.
06:47Or maybe it's because I thought that's the best way for me to win the game.
06:50I left my options open all the way to the very end.
06:53And I'm proud of it.
06:54Yeah.
06:54So, one of those major options was Camilla.
06:57And I would love to hear from you.
06:59Sort of, what was the secret to the success of keeping an underground for so long?
07:03And I guess, on the contrary, what has sort of been your response to these jurors coming out in their interviews and saying,
07:11oh, I actually knew that they were working really closely together.
07:13It just benefited my game, which is why I didn't rat it out.
07:15I mean, well, I mean, there's two ways to think about it, right?
07:18Like, if I'm talking to you in reality, Camilla and I didn't even know we were working together sometimes.
07:22As I mentioned, David was my number one.
07:24But Camilla and I developed this relationship on Nuvula where we had to, like, do this incredible thing and keep it undercover that we were like, oh, wow, we work really well together.
07:33Camilla and I talked for 30 to 45 seconds a day, if that.
07:37Camilla would go in the woods, and I would, like, sprint around and come around and talk to her, bing, bang, boom.
07:43She's my work wife.
07:43Like, we were incredibly efficient out there.
07:45So if people say that they saw us talking out there, good for them.
07:49I barely saw myself talking to her.
07:51But, I mean, I guess to humor your hypothetical, if people knew about Camilla and I's relationship, what the hell are you doing?
07:58You know?
07:59Like, okay, again, like, this guy played the idol.
08:02He's in the majority alliance.
08:03He's winning challenges.
08:04And he has a secret number one, and you know about it.
08:06Vote me out, I guess.
08:07I don't know, not to be, like, coy or anything, but it's a pretty interesting hypothetical, I guess.
08:13Yeah.
08:13So you talked about negotiating this relationship with the jurors.
08:17And, again, maybe one of the reasons why you continue to go with the majority is because you do get to a certain point that you vocalized to us of, like, oh, man.
08:24And I'm fearing that the jury is going to be a little ticked off at the fact that I'm making relationships with them.
08:31So you decide at that point, like, essentially not to say you were closing off options because, again, that was, you know, your MO.
08:38But you said, this is where I'm drawing the line.
08:40I'm done betraying people's trust.
08:43Clarify a little bit more what that means and what made you come to that conclusion.
08:48Yeah.
08:48So it starts with the first juror.
08:51Cedric and I developed a relationship.
08:52I really enjoy Cedric.
08:55And I fully planned to kind of work with him moving through the game.
08:58I wanted to keep every single door open.
09:00That was my game plan.
09:01And he trusted me a lot at that split tribal.
09:05And he was the first person with the jury.
09:06He looked directly at me, said something about his daughter, Claire, and then he went home and he looked pissed.
09:11Chrissy, right?
09:12It was this, there was this twist where everybody went away, right?
09:16I had to spend hours with the one person who was in my C before alliance.
09:20While some people were doing this, like, ball journey and other people are eating tacos.
09:24And I'm, I'm, like, grooming Chrissy, essentially, to go to the jury.
09:28Write her name down to save Camilla.
09:30David was my number one.
09:32Write his name down.
09:33He was pissed.
09:34Like, you know, there's, there's no, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
09:37Like, people were going to the jury and looking at me and they were upset.
09:40And at some point, you kind of have to think, if I put this person on the jury after there are three people who are already very pissed at me, will they vote for me?
09:48Okay?
09:49Like, it's one thing to make big moves, but are you going to make a big move and put somebody in the jury who's not going to vote for you?
09:53Absolutely not.
09:54Like, you play to win.
09:55You don't play for, you know, enjoyment, I guess.
09:58So, one of the big moves that you made towards the end when you had all the power, again, very emblematic of your game, at the final four.
10:06I mean, we saw, despite this maybe being cut and dry initially, you really running through the options where you're like, okay, I'm picking Joe.
10:14Camilla, you're going in.
10:16Wait a minute.
10:16Okay, maybe I want to go in against Camilla.
10:19Wait, Eva's really going through it.
10:21Joe, you let me know if, you know, I shouldn't send her in.
10:24So, talk me through all of the options that you were probably working through over the course of day 25, leading to you ultimately deciding to take Joe to the end.
10:33Yeah.
10:33I mean, I guess there's a couple things, right?
10:34Like, if I'm, like, walking through it logically, the first thing is I know I can't sit at the end with Camilla.
10:40I'm so glad that she told that to me and that she extended that to me first because I was thinking about that all along.
10:46I knew that we would split the votes.
10:48I was very scared of her.
10:49The ironic thing about our relationship is that I trusted probably the best person, the best liar on the island, and I was constantly looking over my shoulder with her because she's an incredible player.
10:59So, managing that relationship was very difficult, but we had a partnership, so I knew I was not going to sit next to her at the end.
11:04Then you look at Joe and Eva.
11:06People have repeatedly told me that Joe is going to win the game as they're leaving because they don't know my game that's been in the shadows.
11:11Can I communicate it?
11:13And Eva is like a sister to me.
11:14They didn't show the relationship that I had with Eva, but she's the strongest woman that I know, and we talked for hours every single day out there.
11:22Throughout the situation is this.
11:24Emotionally, I was going to keep my promise to Joe.
11:27Strategically, I was not going to give him a chance to get one more notch on his resume because I was scared of him as a player.
11:32Of course I was.
11:33With Eva, when I told her that she was making fire, of course emotionally it was – what she went through and what she overcome is one of the most incredible things I've ever seen in my life.
11:44But I knew the moment that I told her that she was making fire, even if I wanted to take it back, it was not my decision anymore.
11:50She was not going to let anyone take that away from her and try and try and try.
11:55You saw Joe pleading.
11:56I was pleading too.
11:57And I'm proud of the decision that I made.
11:59It was tough, but I think it was the right one.
12:01I threaded a needle that was a very narrow gap.
12:04It was a very narrow gap for me to win and feel good about myself at the same time.
12:07So, in addition to obviously divulging a lot of your background to the players, you obviously did so to us as well.
12:16And I know that you went into a little bit more detail about your incarceration on social media sort of after the fact.
12:21But looking at sort of the way you decided to tell your story, and especially I imagine the response from the fandom to those sorts of issues that you're bringing to light,
12:32what has it been like for you to look back upon not only an experience that made you a million dollars richer,
12:38but allowed you to really, I imagine, showcase parts of yourself that you never thought you would have before you stepped foot on that island?
12:47Yeah, absolutely.
12:49If I'm being completely honest with you, I'm a lawyer.
12:52I work at a great law firm in New York.
12:54It has not always been that way for me.
12:57Yet people assume that it has been.
13:00And no one in my life, except for my very close family members and friends, know that I've been incarcerated.
13:05I was terrified when it was going to be on TV.
13:08But I'm proud of myself because I think it's important for people to see people who look like me succeed, but also go through some things.
13:17I'm not, I'm privy to the way that I sound.
13:19I'm privy to the way that I present myself.
13:21I'm privy to the assumptions that people make about me.
13:23But I've spent time in a box.
13:25I've seen men.
13:28I've been with people who have been through things that it's hard to comprehend and it changes you.
13:34But it changes me for the better in a lot of ways because I know that I could overcome anything.
13:38So I'm glad that I got to share that.
13:40It was crazy to see the reception that was so positive from both my colleagues in the workplace, my friends, my family members.
13:47And I'm just blessed because one thing that I was hiding about myself is now I'm in the open.
13:51And I guess that's my entire game if you really think about it.
13:54The last thing I want to ask is, you know, we are going to have players following in your footsteps fairly quickly.
14:00And I imagine now you have not made the game easier for them and that people are going to be picking up being like, is there another Kyle and Camilla out there?
14:08What advice can you try to give to future survivor players of how to keep a number one on the download like you and Camilla were able to do over the course of the season?
14:18Um, you know what?
14:20You got to work for it.
14:21First off, if I'm being like real, you really, you know, again, I was sprinting through the woods.
14:26If I got a chance with Camilla, it was like the most important conversation I was going to have.
14:30You saw literally probably 90% of the conversations I had with her.
14:33And you saw like 15% of the ones that I had with everyone else on that island, but I'll keep it a buck.
14:39You know, the only reason that that partnership worked is because of the relationship that we had.
14:43Um, the only reason that people allowed for it to happen is because of the relationship that I had with them.
14:48Right.
14:48You have to build a foundation with people to play the game.
14:51It's not poker.
14:52It's not chess.
14:53People think it is.
14:54I thought it was.
14:54I thought I was going to go out there and be cutthroat, but I built relationships.
14:58I had the foundation to play the game.
15:00When people were clocking me, other people didn't believe them.
15:02And I was managing a relationship with one of the deadliest players that we've seen this game, uh, in this game.
15:07Like she is a dangerous player.
15:09And while we had this partnership, I was looking over my shoulder every damn day out there.
15:13And I think I, I think I did a pretty good job at that.
15:16Well, listen, uh, I know that it was an experience that I imagine defied your expectations in so many ways, you know, from that first day.
15:25I imagine any predictions you had got smashed like that jar and you had to learn how to adapt and rebuild.
15:31And it, it culminated in this incredibly impressive game.
15:34You know, you're caked up, but you had your cake and ate it too.
15:37When it came to being able to not only win this game, but do so in a way that felt so personally fulfilling.
15:43And it's just been such a great opportunity to follow you, man.
15:46You know, you were the first person I got to sit down with out there.
15:50And I cannot imagine what was going through your head in that moment, but I'm so thrilled that we get the chance to talk now after you played so impressively and, and walked away with the win while also being able to make these lifelong relationships and get to showcase to your point, a side of yourself that, that you never truly expected to millions of people.
16:08So, um, congratulations would be an understatement.
16:12Like I can tell this has been an absolutely life-changing experience for you in so many ways.
16:16And I am just happy along with the fans to be along for the ride in this life-changing experience.
16:22Thank you, Mike.
16:22I think I've ranted to you in person about how, um, how much I appreciate your journalism and how fair and cool you are and knowledgeable.
16:28So I won't do that here, but, um, I just want to say, I really appreciate it.
16:31And it's been such a pleasure talking to you and I can't believe I even get to talk to you.
16:35This is incredible.
16:35Oh my God.
16:38Yes.
16:38The pleasure is online and this, this will definitely will not be the last time, uh, that we're talking, man.
16:42But for now, I wish you and Maggie, nothing but the best.
16:46Uh, I, I cannot wait to see what happens next for you, Kyle.
16:50It's going to be nothing but bright prospects.
16:51And thank you as always for your candor, for your honesty, for your openness.
16:56This has been an absolute pleasure at the lights, sir.
16:59Thank you again.
17:00Thank you so much, Mike.
17:01I really do truly appreciate it.
17:03Yeah, of course.
17:03Yeah.
17:04Let's go.
17:04Have a good one, man.
17:05Thanks again.
17:06You too.
17:07Bye.
17:07Thanks.
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