In an exclusive interview with India Today's Foreign Affairs Editor Geeta Mohan, AIMIM chief and Hyderabad MP Asaduddin Owaisi said that in the interest of the world, Pakistan-sponsored terrorism must come to an end.
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00:00This is an India Today exclusive. I'm being joined by parliamentarian senior leader, GIMIM chief, firebrand politician, Asaduddin Ovesi, who has decided to join the centre's anti-terror all-party delegations, a part of those delegations that are going to go to world capitals to expose Pakistan when it comes to terrorism.
00:24But how is the delegation really going to do that? Asaduddin Ovesi.
00:30Many thanks for joining us here on the network. Ovesi Saab, let's begin with your decision to join the centre in this drive. What made you decide on being part of this all-party delegation that is going to go to world capitals? You're going to a few very critical countries for India.
00:46Well, you see, the minister for the minority affairs and parliamentary affairs had spoken to me and told me that the government of India is going to send various delegations to different parts of the world.
01:08And he wanted me to be part of this delegation. So I accepted it. The reason I have accepted it is that we are going to present a strong case against our neighbour who has indulged in terrorism for years and years.
01:29And this has got nothing to do with the political differences which we have and will continue to have.
01:36But this is a matter of an external threat to our country. And especially in the light of what happened, the gruesome massacre in Pahlgam and then the subsequent developments wherein our country had targeted nine terrorist establishments.
01:55So that was the only reason to put forward a strong case against Pakistan and the terrorist organizations which are patronized, which are supported by Pakistan so that the world knows not only about Pahlgam but there are numerous incidents of terrorism perpetrated by terrorist organizations from Pakistan and India.
02:25And also, you know, we have to bring to the world that the recent IMF loan sanction, despite IMF putting conditions to it, there is a great chance of that money being misused by the Pakistani government and that can be used against India in promoting terrorism over here.
02:49So, we will be having our briefing because I am part of Group 1. Our briefing will be done on the 23rd. So, more information will be given to us and that would also be helpful.
03:04Well, yes. The first batch has begun its all-party delegation journey to some parts. But the countries you are going to go to, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Algeria, very critical, very important for India.
03:21And the projection when it comes to Pakistan being an Islamic nation. How is that really going to work in countries like Saudi Arabia?
03:29The Saudi Minister of State for Foreign Affairs was actually in India, went to Pakistan. A lot of conversation on de-escalation in such a scenario.
03:42How are you going to present India's case on why there is a need at this time to not show neutrality but to take a side?
03:51Well, as far as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is concerned, we have a strategic relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
04:04And in all these three countries out of these four which you have mentioned, you have a huge number of Indians living over there and sending a substantial amount of foreign exchange to our country.
04:20Bahrain, we have a historical relationship with them, Kuwait also. So, you know, and one must understand that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has really helped us in stopping terrorism in India by ensuring that all these wanted people who were living in that part of the world,
04:45they were handed over arrested or whatever you call them. And there is a huge investment also being done by Kingdom in India. We have been buying oil from them.
05:00So, I think so. We have a great opportunity when an all-party delegation goes to first Bahrain, then Kuwait, then Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and then to Algeria.
05:12And as far as I know, all these countries are against any form of terrorism. They have a strict policy that they will never tolerate any terrorist activities.
05:28So, on that point, I think so, India and these countries are together and with a good relationship which we have developed over the years with these respective countries.
05:40I am sure the all-party delegation which I am part of headed by my good friend Jay Panda and all the respective honourable MPs will be there.
05:52We will be able to put forward in a very convincing way the stance of our government, of our country. And it is in the interest of not only South Asia but in the interest of the whole world that terrorism comes to an end.
06:10Because no country in the world would like to see any sort of destabilization in India when we are a huge economic market for various countries.
06:25So, it is the interest of the world that terrorism being perpetrated, promoted by Pakistan comes to an end.
06:35Well, OVC, I see the composition of the delegations. It is very clear that there is also a projection over here, a deliberate attempt by the central government to show unity and diversity.
06:47You are reading your take on how that takes or gives India and Apureg an advantage over Pakistan, which is also going to send delegations in a similar manner.
07:00What do you think?
07:01Well, I beg to differ with you. I don't want my country to be hyphenated with a failed nation. And so, the diversity and pluralism of our great country is reflected in the Indian constitution.
07:23And the Indian constitution itself is a very, it celebrates diversity, it promotes pluralism, it promotes equality. So, let Pakistan do whatever they want. A country which has taken IMF loan 28 times since it became a failed country in 47.
07:48OVC, also the projection. I see the composition of the delegation. It really shows that a lot of effort was made deliberately so to ensure that there is a projection of unity and diversity at a time when Pakistan is also trying to do the same, send delegations to various countries. But it will be more homogenous rather than as diverse as India's delegation looks.
08:13I see the less we talk about Pakistan is better. I don't want India to be hyphenated with Pakistan.
08:28You know, since 1947, Pakistan has been troubling India, trying to destabilize India. They have promoted various terrorist organizations. And the fact of the matter is that the Indian constitution celebrates pluralism and diversity.
08:50The Indian constitution clearly says that India as a nation as a nation as a country has no religion. And we celebrate all religion. Whereas the neighboring country is a failed state. It was formed on a basis of a religion. But they have used that religion to promote terrorist activities.
09:15They have not understood the religion of Islam properly. And that is why you see that various terrorist organizations at one point of time, Pakistan was headquarters of all the various terrorist organizations which were troubling various countries in the world.
09:34So Pakistan can do whatever they want. But there is no equivalence with what India is and what India will do in the future. And the countries which all the honorable MPs will be going, they also know for a fact that India is on a very, very higher pedestal than this neighboring country.
09:56Our economy is what, seven, eight times more stronger than the neighboring country. And a country which has taken IMF loan 28 times. We can, the world understands what Pakistan has been doing with their own country, with their own economy.
10:15And I think so. And I think it is high time that our government should ensure that Pakistan is once again put back into FATF grey list.
10:24That is, that will be one of the best ways of ensuring that the money is not given to these terrorists and terrorism is not promoted in India.
10:35And that's a very important point you make, that the center should be making that effort of getting Pakistan back on the grey list of the FATF.
10:43Having said that, and we will talk about the international community because there has been a rather disappointing projection in terms of positioning of the international community of ISIS.
10:54But before that, copycat syndrome, what would you call it? That we make statements, Pakistan does the same. We hold press conferences, Pakistan does the same.
11:05And now we are sending all party delegations. So Shabazz Sharif has appointed Bilawal Bhutto Zardari to do the same.
11:12Should he secure very high level meetings, what would that mean then for India and India's position when it comes to the international community?
11:21You know, the person who's going to head the neighboring country, whatever delegation they comprise of, I mean, his mother was killed by an act of terror.
11:43So, and it's most unfortunate that a son who lost his mother to terrorists does not empathize with what India is suffering, has been suffering for many years.
11:56So anyway, the agenda which we have, we will continue to put forward to the various countries where we will be going.
12:08And I'm sure, inshallah, from the messaging point of view, from convincing point of view, from ensuring that the world understands in a more clearer way that Pakistan deliberately indulges in promoting terrorism in India.
12:29India, their whole purpose is to destabilize India, to create differences between two communities.
12:36And Pakistan wrongly uses the name of Islam.
12:42Islam is a religion which Prophet Muhammad's main message was to end terrorism.
12:49So here you have a country which was partitioned in the name of religion and formed on the basis of religion.
12:57In their own country, they are bombing Balochis, they are bombing Iranian border posts, they are firing at Afghan border posts, which are all Muslim countries, Iran and Afghanistan.
13:15And that is why you see, we have seen the Taliban government outrightly condemning what happened in Pahlkam.
13:23And they're also understanding the importance and then value of having India as a good neighbor or a good relationship with India.
13:34What a pertinent point you make when you say that Bilal personally has suffered an act of terrorism.
13:42And yet Pakistan fails to understand the gravity of what it does to neighbors.
13:48We cannot choose our neighbors.
13:50But then again, you know, going back in history, your country cousin, former and late Prime Minister Narasimha Rao also had taken a decision to send an all-party delegation.
14:01Interestingly, the leader of the opposition back then led the delegation, Atul Bihari Vajpayee.
14:07Is the government taking a leave out of the Narasimha Rao playbook or the Congress playbook?
14:13Not only the government of Congress headed by Mr. Rao, but also the government headed by Dr. Manuman Singh has also sent some delegations.
14:31So, you know, let us not look at this thing from the prism of political differences.
14:38Political differences are necessary to ensure and strengthen democracy.
14:45They will continue to have.
14:46I am a bitter opponent of BJP. I will continue to be a bitter opponent of BJP.
14:50But this is not a question of political differences.
14:55This is a question of someone threatening the integrity of our country, someone deliberately slaughtering Indian nationals by asking them their religion.
15:07And for India to become a strong country, of course, we want good relations with our neighbors.
15:15But if you have a neighbor, you rightly said that we cannot change our neighbors, but we cannot trust our neighbor which is called Pakistan.
15:23So, you know, for the progress of India, for India to be strengthened and to realize the dream of our founding fathers,
15:31it is very important that at this point of time all political parties have come together and are part of this delegation which is going to different countries.
15:44Oasis, has terrorism been weaponized in geopolitics?
15:49Look at the countries. Look at the reactions.
15:51Condemnation for Pahal Ghan, but no specific position or stand for India.
15:56Not even D.C., where India invested so much.
16:00In fact, if anything, they've done a lot of damage to the conversations that took place.
16:05Instead, we're looking at Pakistan where three countries at least are standing by it.
16:09China, a very important country, a superpower, an emerging superpower.
16:15Turkey, Azerbaijan. Turkey, a NATO country.
16:18But none of them, none of our allies have really actually stood by us.
16:24They only sought de-escalation at a time.
16:26And India said, we're only hitting Pakistan. Should they hit us, we'll hit them harder. Should they stop, we'll stop.
16:34Is it a disappointing stance? And is that the reason why India needed to do this?
16:39This exercise, carry out this exercise of sending delegations to various countries?
16:43I agree with you, with what you have said.
16:52You know, we have good relationship with U.S.
16:57We had that nuclear deal.
17:00And what really worried me was that when we could not include the terrorist organization, TRF, in the Security Council resolution.
17:13You know, I was quite worried and surprised that we could not include the name of that terrorist organization in that Security Council resolution.
17:25But I still feel that our government, our diplomats are quite capable and they must ensure that the United States designates TRF as a foreign terrorist organization.
17:39It is very important for United Kingdom and their own Treasury to designate TRF as a terrorist organization.
17:49We must impress upon China also that this is not good for the whole region.
17:56And, of course, we have our own neighboring allies. They should also be impressed.
18:03So, all in all, I feel that a lot of work has to be done on that particular front.
18:09And I'm sure that the government is looking into it.
18:14But I totally agree with you. I know that the countries which are supporting Pakistan have come out very clearly and categorically said that they will be supporting Pakistan.
18:25So, there is a room for improvement. Let us hope that the government would understand this and take it up at the highest level with these respective countries.
18:37Oasis, I'm saying that the politics back home, there's a lot of politics that we've seen and I have to ask you this.
18:44There's a lot of politics that's happening here in the country with regards to the operation, post-Operation Sindhu, you know, ops.
18:54And will this politics impact the outcome of what the all-party delegation intends to do with countries abroad?
19:05Because they're watching what's happening in India. They're watching the actions being taken.
19:10They're watching the bitter words that are being exchanged between the opposition and the ruling dispensation between the ruling party and the opposition parties.
19:20So, is that going to have an impact on the outcome?
19:27I don't think so. It will have an impact because, you see, despite whatever has been said by different political parties.
19:34So, unlike the countries which are supporting Pakistan and our neighbor, they cannot tolerate differences.
19:44We have our own differences. But despite that, those political parties have sent their respective honorable MPs as part of the delegation.
19:55That in itself sends out a clear message that as far as terrorism is concerned, as far as this neighboring country which is sponsoring terrorism is concerned,
20:08all of us are one. And as the foreign secretary, you must be remembering that during his first briefing, he said that we have a very vibrant democracy in India.
20:18So, but despite what has been said, these political parties have sent their MPs in this delegation.
20:29And lastly, you know, I cannot speak on behalf of those political parties. But yes, we will be asking questions with our government at the right time.
20:43That we must ensure that those four terrorists, which massacred Indians at Pelgam, justice should be done to them. Those terrorists should be caught or whatever it is, they should be neutralized.
20:56And there are some important questions which the country wants to know. I'm sure that all of us, including my party, would be asking the government.
21:06Right. Just two more questions before I let you go. Because you mentioned the foreign secretary. You were one of the first who came out in his defense. He's one of the brightest we have.
21:17But the kind of trolling, the kind of treatment that was meted out to the foreign secretary of India was rather not just disappointing, but shameful.
21:29Just to have come out and conveyed the message of the central government away, Sisam.
21:36You know, what really surprised me was that the foreign minister should have condemned it. But later on, the IS officers and the various government office organizations have condemned it.
21:54But this is not the way to treat the foreign secretary. This is not the way to troll someone. And you're attacking his family. And day in, day out, we see, you know, I mean, I'm sure you cover international relations.
22:12You know, you're also covering the press conference, which is held at 4 a.m., 1 a.m. So, you know, this is the foreign secretary post in our country is a very, very important post.
22:25And also, especially in the light of what has happened. At this time, at this point of time, someone indulges in this kind of personal attack. You have the right to disagree.
22:38You disagree. You're stopping you from disagreeing. But to attack his family, what has the family got to do? And this and end of the day, you see, in our constitution, the foreign secretary or the government is part of the executive.
22:54That is the ruling party. So whatever the ruling party decides as a policy decision, that will be said by the various government officers, whether it's foreign secretary, whether it's home secretary, whether it's any additional secretary of any department.
23:10So, end of the day, you know, if you have a grievance, take it to the government. But why attack an officer? Why attack his family? That is highly condemnable. That should not have happened. And no one should tolerate this also.
23:27Oasis, finally, I'm looking at the countries that delegations are being sent to some of very important ones. But I do see a glaring miss over here. And that's the neighborhood that for all the neighborhood first policy that India carries out and has been talking about for the past over a decade now.
23:49So, neighborhood has been given a miss. We have had, we do have a very difficult relationship with most of our neighbors. But isn't it important to have that neighborhood outreach at this point in time when we are having the most difficult time with our immediate neighbor Pakistan?
24:07Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. Very important that we have very good relationship with our neighbors, which I must say that we must exclude Pakistan out of it. Afghanistan, the Taliban government, you know, has openly condemned it.
24:30You know, Bangladesh, you know, Bangladesh, what is worrying for us is that according to media reports subject to correction that ISI is a regular visitor in Bangladesh.
24:43Absolutely.
24:44You know, and Nepal is there, Sri Lanka is there. So I'm sure, I'm sure the government knows about this. And it is the interest of our neighboring countries that India remains,
25:00you know, you know, you know, a stronger country because one must remember that this terrorism is like a cancer. You know, it can spread anywhere. And terrorism itself doesn't differentiate between countries.
25:13That's…
25:14You know, they can do anything to ensure… So hopefully they'll realize what India has been suffering for so many years. And I'm sure that in coming months, more should be done, will be done.
25:29And having a more stronger and vibrant relationship with our South Asian and neighboring countries.
25:39Oasis are not one but two field marshals now in Pakistan. Asim Munir has declared himself, if I may say so boldly enough, to declare himself a field marshal after Ayub Khan.
25:53A very rare instance where even Parvez Musharraf had not gone this far. What's your reading and is that also going to be part of the conversation when you take…
26:05when you're part of the delegation to the countries that you're going to visit?
26:11Well, you know, to answer in short, I have heard a topmost officer of the government telling us that every country has an army, but the Pakistani army has a country. So, had there been a position more…
26:37higher than field marshal, I'm sure Mr. Munir would have aspired for that as well. So, they can do anything. It's a joke basically. So, they can do anything they want.
26:49I mean, they have a civilian government over there. A man is going to retire. And then he says, oh, I want this post. And the civilian government bends down, falls at his feet and says, yes, your exalted highness,
27:07please take it whatever you want. So, what can we say? What can we say to them?
27:14Nobody could have put it better, Oasis Saab. It is indeed a joke what is happening now in Pakistan and how things are panning out.
27:24I only wish you the best in carrying out India's message forward to the countries that you'd be visiting on a very important mission to apprise them of terrorism that India has been suffering, not just the recent one, but for decades.
27:40Thank you so much for joining us on the network.