Prime Minister Narendra Modi has made a significant statement on Pakistan's state-sponsored terror. He articulated India's policy that if there is terror, there will be consequences for Pakistan.
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00:00Good evening. It's perhaps the most significant statement by Prime Minister
00:04Narendra Modi on Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror. Prime Minister
00:10Modi has articulated India's policy on terror in black and white. If there is
00:16terror then there will be consequences for Pakistan. India has called out
00:22Pakistan's nuclear bogey by targeting nine terror bases and 1313 Pakistani
00:29airbases and radar stations on the 10th of May. Now there's also no distinction
00:37between terrorists and their sponsors. Watch that image on your television
00:41screen. That image clearly shows you there is no distinction between state
00:46and non-state actors in Pakistan. There's only one actor that's the Pakistani
00:52state, the chief of the army staff, the DG ISI and they use these so-called
00:59non-state actors. They all work as one team as these images show. Clearly
01:06Pakistan can no longer pull wool at least over India's eyes. Pakistan army
01:11officers were present at the funeral of terrorists. There is no distinction. The
01:15Prime Minister's red line for Pakistan drawn in Sindoor. That's our top focus
01:21story on India First.
02:51This game of state and non-state actors will no longer work.
03:03Prime Minister draws new red line for Pakistan.
03:11Keep one thing in mind, Pakistan is a nuclear weapon state and it took all of
03:1922 minutes once instructions were issued by Prime Minister Narendra Modi for
03:25India's armed forces to bring a nuclear weapon state to its knees. Just 22
03:33minutes. That is India's strength. Realize our strength. That is how strong we are
03:40and it wasn't just Pakistan. Do keep in mind that's a Pakistan that's backed by
03:45China. It had Chinese weapons. It has it had Turkish drones and India took all of
03:5222 minutes to bring Pakistan backed by China and Turkey down to its knees. The
04:01Prime Minister was at NAL airbase in Bikaner. Remember Pakistan also claimed
04:05apart from Adhampur that it had targeted the NAL airbase in Bikaner. The
04:10Prime Minister made it very clear our airbases are safe. Then tongue very
04:15firmly in cheek he said just check across the border the Rahim Yar Khan
04:19airbase in Pakistan. It's an ICU. No one knows when Rahim Yar Khan will be
04:25operational again and that's the biggest response to Pakistan state-sponsored
04:31radical Islamist terror. The response first when you targeted nine terror camps
04:37including the headquarters of terror at Muridke, Lashkar-e-Taiba headquarters in
04:41Muridke. It was unimaginable and at Bahawalpur and at Sialkot and at so many
04:46other places including in Pakistan occupied Jammu and Kashmir and then 13
04:50airbases of Pakistan and radar stations. That's that line drawn in red. The
04:56question is will Pakistan read this writing on the wall. I'm Gaurav Sawant. We
05:00debate but first is always the headlines on India First.
05:06External Affairs Minister Dr. S Jaishankar counters Donald Trump's
05:12ceasefire claim again. Says the US role was limited to expressing concern. Made
05:19one thing very clear to everybody who spoke to us. Not just United States but
05:24to everybody. Saying look if the Pakistanis want to stop firing they
05:30need to tell us. We need to hear it from them.
05:37One month since the Pehalga massacre four terrorists still at large. Two
05:43other terrorists killed in a separate encounter in Kishtiwad. Eight terrorists
05:47eliminated in the past seven days.
05:52Alleged spy Jyoti Malhotra's Pehalgam attack links under the lens
06:02investigators revealed she spoke to Pakistani intelligence officers during
06:08the terror attack and also during Operation Sindoor.
06:16Big security breach at superstar Salman Khan's home. Second trespasser arrested
06:21in just two days. A 36 year old model enters the superstars home at 3 in the
06:27morning. To Israeli Embassy officials shot dead in Washington DC outside the
06:38Jewish Museum. The attacker chanted free Palestine. He's been arrested. Donald
06:45Trump says the killings are based on anti-semitism and must end.
06:57Not blood but Sindoor runs through my veins. That was Prime Minister Narendra
07:04Modi's roar at Bikaner just kilometers away from Jaish-e-Mohammad's
07:09headquarters in Bahawalpur that was decimated in India's precision missile
07:16strikes. Now this was just one instance of the Prime Minister's perhaps his most
07:23aggressive speech on Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror.
07:27He's defined India's new normal in dealing with terroristan. This is India's
07:34red line drawn in Sindoor. Listen in.
08:05Samaya hamaari senaye taye karegi. Tariqa bhi hamaari senaye taye karegi.
08:18Aur sharte bhi hamaari hogi. Doosra atom bomb ki geedhar bappiyon se
08:32Bharat durnewala nahi hai. Doosra hum aatang ke aakaon aur aatang ki
08:43sarparatna sarkar ko alag alag nahi denge. Unhe alag alag nahi denge. Unhe
08:55ek hi maanenge. Pakistan ka yeh state aur non-state actor wala khel hum nahi chalega.
09:11The Prime Minister's articulating India's policy on terror. Is Pakistan
09:16reading this writing on the wall? India will no longer be taken in by the nuclear
09:22bogey and that's the biggest question that we're asking here on India today.
09:26Has the Narendra Modi government effectively called out Pakistan's nuclear
09:32bogey? The manner in which multiple airbases were targeted. The manner in
09:37which Sargodha was targeted. The manner in which Jacobabad and I'm talking
09:43about Noor Khan, Rafiki, Rahim Yar Khan, Jacobabad for a reason. All
09:51of these are delivery mechanisms and storage points of Pakistan's nuclear
09:56weapons and aircraft. The Prime Minister also outlined India's strategic shift
10:01in response to terrorism from restraint to delivering justice. It's not revenge,
10:09it's not retaliation or retribution. It's delivering justice and it started with
10:16surgical strikes, then airstrikes and now missile strikes. Multiple missile
10:21strikes deep inside Pakistan.
10:47This is the policy to crush terrorism. This is the policy. This is India. New India.
11:07To crush terrorism. That snake of terror, you have to defang it. And that's
11:14exactly what India is doing. He's also made one point very clear and this
11:19perhaps is the biggest nightmare for Pakistan's military terror network.
11:24Because Prime Minister Narendra Modi at Bikaner in Rajasthan made it very clear
11:28there is no distinction between state and non-state actors in Pakistan.
11:33No distinction between terrorists and their sponsors. No distinction between,
11:38if I may, between Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Hizbul Mujahideen
11:43and the Pakistani Armed Forces. Listen.
12:13We know about foreign policy. We are civilized citizens.
12:19Now the real face of Pakistan will be shown to the whole world.
12:29So let's try and make sense of India's new doctrine on terror.
12:35Joining me on this India Today special broadcast is Tilak Devesh. Author,
12:39former member of National Security Advisory Board. Was also Special Secretary
12:43of Research and Analysis Wing. Professor Brahma Chilani, one of India's
12:47most respected strategic affairs analyst. Dr. Tara Kartha is former National Security
12:52Council Secretary Director. Joins me on the show and as does my colleague Sandeep Unnithan.
12:58And Tilak Devesh, may I begin by asking you, sir, your appreciation of the Prime Minister's
13:04three main points. If there is an attack, there will be a response.
13:09India has called out Pakistan's nuclear bogey and no distinction between state and non-state actors.
13:17Thank you, Gaurav, for having me on your show. You know, I think what the PM said today
13:23is a continuation of what he said on the 12th. On the 12th, when he spoke at Adanpur,
13:29he laid out the various parameters of India's new national security doctrine.
13:34Today, he has amplified it more by making it absolutely clear that this is the new normal.
13:41You know, when he says, Operation Sindhu, ye Hindustan, ye Bharat ka rodhra roop hai.
13:48That this is what India will do henceforth. So, he's put the bar that any terrorist action
13:54will be met not with restraint, not with high moral ground, but will be met with a decisive action.
14:03And then you have the other two components, key of which is, of course, that we will no longer fall for Pakistan's nuclear bluff.
14:10So, I think if you see the two speeches in conjunction, what you have today are the parameters
14:17of India's national security doctrine, that going forward, Pakistan is on notice.
14:23Pakistan will now have to ensure, if it wants to live peacefully, that there is no terror module,
14:33which it is part of any of its terror organizations that carries out any terror attacks.
14:40If it does, which means Pakistan is looking for a scrap and Pakistan is looking to be punished.
14:46Because now there is no obfuscation. You know, it's absolutely crystal clear.
14:53Any terror attack and there is no distinction between terrorists and government.
14:58It will be seen as Pakistan. No non-state actor or state actor. It will be seen as Pakistan itself.
15:05So, if Pakistan wants to face those consequences, it's welcome to give it a try.
15:10But I think the Prime Minister has shown his determination and the Indian Armed Forces
15:14have also shown their determination of what they are capable of.
15:18Irrespective of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, Chinese platforms and, you know, different kinds of technology,
15:25which they thought they had.
15:27Professor Brahmachalani, all ambiguity removed and does this show India's strength?
15:34Because, you know, it's not just Pakistan. A Pakistan that's backed by China,
15:38that does not want to see a strong India, armed by Turkey and not just through their drones.
15:44And yet, as the Prime Minister said, all it took was 22 minutes to get Pakistan down on its knees and beg for a ceasefire.
15:55Professor Chilani.
15:57You're absolutely right. I think it was a strong speech by the Prime Minister.
16:02But it was a speech largely directed at the domestic audience.
16:07The Prime Minister is seeking to combat the growing domestic perception that he yielded to external pressure
16:14and abruptly called off the brief military operation against Pakistan,
16:18just when Indian forces had gained the upper hand on the battlefield.
16:23As you have been reporting, Gaurav, repeatedly, that the turning point in Operation Sindhu came on the morning of May 10th,
16:30when the Indian military hit major Pakistani airbases, including Nur Khan,
16:35which is located near the army headquarters, the Prime Minister's office and Pakistan's nuclear command.
16:42At this point, India had seized the battlefield initiative. Yet, just a few hours later, a ceasefire was accepted.
16:51So, given this background, this perception about yielding to foreign pressure is being reinforced,
17:05unfortunately, by Trump's remarks about how he brokered an India-Pak ceasefire.
17:12In fact, how he used the threat of trade sanctions to force India's hand.
17:16He has repeated those assertions multiple times.
17:20And so it's making Modi's task a bit more difficult because he is trying to present a national message
17:30both to the domestic audience and to the international audience.
17:34But clearly, what Modi is seeking to say is that India now has drawn a line in the sand
17:42and is willing to pay Pakistan back in the same coin, not by exporting terror,
17:54but by imposing costs on Pakistan that are proportionate to its export of terrorism to India.
18:01But aren't they disproportionate? Because it's not just targeting nine terror bases,
18:06it's targeting Pakistan, from Pakistan-occupied Jammu Kashmir, the Skardu Air Base,
18:11down to Bulari and that Malir Kant radar station bases across Pakistan.
18:16It's disproportionate response. And if I may, why should we buy Dr. Tara Kartha,
18:22and Professor Chilani, I'll come back to you on that, why should we buy Donald Trump's, you know,
18:27version of this thing when Donald Trump has a history of being economical with the truth?
18:33He's been called out thousands of times by the American media itself for being economical with the truth
18:39or bragging, you know, and not delivering. Dr. Tara Kartha.
18:44Actually, I think the government's narrative should include one simple fact,
18:50that we've just imposed reciprocal tariffs on the US. I mean, what trade?
18:55If he's going to talk about trade, this is the reality. I mean, that's what we did at the WTO.
19:00And honestly, if I were to break that up, I don't even know how it works.
19:06Where do you bring in trade sanctions or trade benefits, which I don't see Trump doing ever?
19:12Trade sanctions for terrorism, he's not interested.
19:16He's interested only in getting his narrative and getting trade benefits. That's one.
19:21Number two, the fact is that it's, I mean, the fact that we have consistently and at each calculated step,
19:31it was so calculated, we will do this much and now you're ready to step back.
19:36We'll do this much and you're ready to step back. So it was, what shall I say,
19:42it was beautifully done in terms of, I have never seen it done in terms of this tight command and control.
19:48Now we have to get into the narrative and I think we are falling behind there.
19:55For example, where is the fact that Pakistanis have been arrested all over the world for terrorist acts?
20:05Literally all over the world. Where is that data? Like I said, just in March this year,
20:11a bunch of Pakistanis were arrested in Spain, including women. This was a gang with women also involved.
20:19Then there was another one, I think, in Italy. So this data has to be brought out in a fashion which brings out the truth.
20:31It's not just us that Pakistan is attacking.
20:34If I may, I completely agree with you that we should continue to expose Pakistan.
20:40But if I may, Sandeep, why should we fall for the American narrative or seek American appreciation for what we've done?
20:49We're a strong country. Even America hasn't targeted a nuclear weapon state.
20:54America also goes and bombs Afghanistan and Iraq, which barely have an air force to speak of.
21:02And here we are taking down American-made aircraft in Pakistan. We're taking down Swedish aircraft in Pakistan.
21:10We've decimated major air bases in Pakistan. We've called out or exposed the Chinese radars and air defense systems.
21:20Why are we seeking Western validation or saying, oh, they're not buying our narrative?
21:25Oh, so why? We've done it. We're proud of it. Our equipment is showing that.
21:30Sandeep?
21:31Absolutely. You know, Gaurav, as you said, Prime Minister Modi's new Modi doctrine, if you can call it that,
21:38it's that trident of three spears or a trident of three factors,
21:47which basically he says that there is going to be no distinction between a state actor and a non-state actor.
21:52That is something that the Pakistan army built up so assiduously.
21:56A dozen Pakistan army chiefs have built up the narrative that we had nothing to do with the terrorist groups.
22:01They're all non-state actors.
22:03The second most important thing is that he said that we are not going to be deterred by Pakistan's nuclear blackmail.
22:09And they've actually, you know, called it out by attacking all of those bases that you mentioned,
22:14Chaklala, Sargodha, all of those places which have been used to host nuclear weapons.
22:19And this is the first time in the history of nuclear weapons of the last 80 years, Gaurav,
22:25that one nuclear-armed state has attacked another nuclear-armed state with the Air Force.
22:31Of course, Pakistan fired first. They used ballistic missiles.
22:35Extremely irresponsible, you know, and reckless,
22:39which is why we unleashed the Air Force on the 10th of May to carry out those strikes across Pakistan.
22:44You know, Gaurav, at the end of the day, there is also a narrative that India must build.
22:49And while we've been talking about the military responses, it is fantastic.
22:53The military OODA loop, the Observe, Orient, Decide and Act loop,
22:57was becoming shorter and shorter as the operations progressed from the first wave, the second to the third.
23:03But somewhere down the line, I think our narrative was failing.
23:08The OODA loop over there was actually becoming bigger and bigger.
23:11So while the military OODA loop was shrinking,
23:14it was the diplomatic and the narrative OODA loop that was actually widening.
23:20There was a lot of time between, you know, the time that it took us to respond to say the United States
23:27and all of Trump's shenanigans, all of those statements.
23:30It took us a long time to come back on all of that and set the narrative right.
23:34And that, Gaurav, is the reason, as Dr. Chalani pointed out,
23:38that the Prime Minister is literally going out on the front foot and swinging out at Pakistan,
23:43you know, putting the Modi doctrine out there for them to see.
23:46The fact is that, you know, you're not going to be deterred by terrorism.
23:49And this is the most important thing, Gaurav.
23:52Apart from the terror blackmail, the nuclear blackmail that he's called,
23:56the fact is that today there is no distinction between the state and the non-state in Pakistan.
24:02This is something the Pakistan military has built up, as I said, over decades, Gaurav.
24:07They always built up this plausible deniability.
24:10We have nothing to do, you know, Mumbai has been bombed by a DG ISI.
24:14We have nothing to do with this. They are non-state actors and all.
24:17All that stands shattered and today it is General Headquarters Rawalpindi that is in our bombsites, Gaurav.
24:24And that is the big achievement that Operation Sindhu has really done.
24:27You know, Professor Chalani, absolutely.
24:29The nuclear bogey hasn't been called out forever.
24:33If we can send in missiles today, we can send it next time.
24:36Would you agree that the Chinese air defense system, their honky 9Ps and their HQ-16s,
24:43their entire air defense system didn't really work if our missiles were going in one after the other?
24:48Yes, they won. You know, we still need more clarity.
24:51But I'm talking about the May 10th response. Does that not show India was on top of the game?
24:56The West will never buy it. They would still look at us as, you know,
25:00how dare brown people do better than the white people.
25:03They may try, but ultimately they will have to accept the truth sooner than later.
25:08Are you asking me?
25:11Yes, yes, Professor Chalani. Go on, sir.
25:13Yes. The fact is that objectively analyzing how rival weapon systems performed
25:23and how the two militaries performed, it's very clear that India gained air superiority over Pakistan.
25:30I don't think any serious military analyst in the world today will deny the fact
25:35that India gained air superiority over Pakistan in this very brief military operation.
25:41The issues are largely political.
25:44They are political because the whole discourse internationally has now become focused on India-Pakistan,
25:56India-Pakistan and Kashmir. And the central issue that triggered the military hostilities,
26:04cross-border terrorism, that is no way in the international discourse.
26:10And to make matters worse, within Pakistan, the army is getting a boost from this military operation.
26:19General Munir has been elevated to the rank of field marshal
26:24the second time this has happened in Pakistan's history.
26:27And the irony is that just a couple of weeks ago, General Munir had remained a despised figure
26:35among many Pakistanis, especially Imran Khan supporters,
26:38because the army was behind the crackdown on Khan's party.
26:43Now General Munir is being cast as a national saviour.
26:49And every time the Americans have intervened in an India-Pakistan military conflict,
26:54the Pak military has got a boost at home.
26:58This happened in 1999. President Clinton helped end the India-Pak armed conflict in the Kargil sector.
27:06Ironically, we accepted the US intervention in 1999,
27:11just when the Paki intruders were running out of ammunition.
27:16But because Clinton intervened, his intervention helped to empower
27:21the then Pakistan army chief Parvez Musharraf, who went on to stage a coup.
27:27So like in 1999, the Pak military today has boosted its standing at home
27:34by holding its own against the more powerful India.
27:37So the flip side of India gaining military superiority on the battlefield
27:43is that because of the US intervention, or in whatever role the US played,
27:49the Pak military today is enjoying greater recognition, greater respect at home.
27:57And this is paradoxical given the fact that people in Pakistan increasingly were blaming the Pak army for the country's plight.
28:07Yes. So that's interesting. Mr. Devesh, is that also your appreciation?
28:13And does that mean that Imran Khan and his party and his supporters will accept,
28:19you know, Field Marshal Asim Munir being on top?
28:23Because that in a way would be endgame Imran Khan.
28:26Either he gets exiled or Asim Munir will hang him like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
28:31or have him shot dead like Bairazir Bhutto.
28:34Clearly the two cannot live in the same country.
28:37I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with Professor Jalani for two reasons.
28:42First of all about the ceasefire. You see, I think, let's be very clear.
28:47What were our aims when we launched this operation?
28:51It was to take out the terror sites.
28:53I think repeatedly the press conferences, the army made it very clear that we were targeting only the terror camps.
29:00Because when Pakistan responded, we hit their airbases.
29:05And then when they asked for peace, or sued for peace really, our objectives had been met.
29:10We had demolished the snake pits of Gorintheke and Bangko.
29:14So we accepted the ceasefire. I don't think it's a question of pressure.
29:17As far as President Trump is concerned, I think only President Trump knows what
29:22President Trump is going to come up with next.
29:25I think too much of importance has been given to him.
29:27I think the EAM has clarified that this was purely a bilateral thing.
29:32So I do not accept about the pressure on the PM or the speech in Bikaner was meant for the domestic audience.
29:38I think it was meant for across the border.
29:41Now the second thing about the point about this Pakistan.
29:48Pakistan Army Imran Khan.
29:50In fact, you know, I think we should look at it, I feel the other way.
29:53I feel that it is a weakened Asim Munir who has given himself the title of field marshal
29:59to cover up for their loss, to cover up for their defeat.
30:03If it was a victory, then the air chief should have become a marshal of the air force.
30:10It was an air battle after all, it wasn't a land battle.
30:13How come Munir has become?
30:14So he's basically covering up the fact that it is an unpopular army, especially in Pakistan, in Punjab.
30:20They are facing problems in Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, which they can't do anything about.
30:25And as far as India is concerned, I think strengthening the army, if Professor Chalani feels that the army is being strengthened,
30:32I think it's a very good thing.
30:33Whenever the army comes out nakedly in the open, you can be rest assured that Pakistan will have major officials.
30:41Very interesting point. Go on.
30:44The barriers, the bumpers which are there when civilians are in power will no longer be there.
30:50And the army just knows either black or white.
30:53So if the army has been strengthened, I don't think so.
30:56I think Munir is actually in a very weak position.
30:59He's covering it up by becoming field marshal.
31:01But if you think that the army has been strengthened in Pakistan, I think great.
31:05Let them get even more strengthened.
31:07It'll do us much better in the long term.
31:10Professor Chalani, quick 30 second response.
31:13Then I'll bring in Dr. Tarakarta and Sandeep Puneethan. Go on, sir.
31:16Gaurav, I didn't say the Pak army has been strengthened.
31:19I said it's standing at home has been boosted.
31:23Whether we like it or not, the Pakistanis are beginning to look at the Pak army now in different light than they were just days ago
31:37because of this three-day military operation in which both India and Pakistan were involved.
31:44And if our objective was only to take out some terror camps,
31:48what is all this talk about no distinction between state and non-state actors,
31:52no distinction between terrorists and their sponsors?
31:56What is all this talk about that we will not differentiate between the terrorists and those who are behind it?
32:03Those behind it are the Pak military.
32:05So why did we start this operation Sindoor by only targeting nine terror camps?
32:13Though we gave Pakistan many days' notice, 15 days' notice, they emptied most of these terror camps.
32:21We knew all that and yet we began this operation differentiating between the state and non-state actors
32:28and then now we are claiming that we met our objective by hitting some terror camps.
32:35Plus 13 Pakistan Air Force bases including Noor Khan in Rawalpindi,
32:40plus the radars at Pasroor and Malir Cantonment, plus Bhulari, plus Skardu,
32:47you know 13 air bases of Pakistan army decimated.
32:51I'm told Dr. Tara Kartha, he cannot use Sargodha for some more time.
32:55The Prime Minister, tongue firmly in cheek, said Rahim Yar Khan remains in ICU.
33:00So there is no distinction, is there, between terrorists and their sponsors?
33:05This is perhaps the highest cost that has ever been imposed on radical Islamist terror in Pakistan, Dr. Tara Kartha.
33:13Absolutely, I would love someone to estimate those costs and then wait against the IMF loan that they got.
33:20So it's going to be huge, right, because it's not easy putting these assets back.
33:25But the point I'm trying to make here is that if you want this, we've got hyphenated.
33:31This is one problem which the US has done. It's not in our perception. As far as we are concerned, there's no such thing.
33:37But these guys are trying to do this whole hyphenation stuff. The way to break that is to get that terrorism,
33:44the whole, you know, perception management has to be done again. We did it once.
33:49I think we can do it again because we are talking the truth. We are not making up stories.
33:53The truth. So that aspect I think we need to highlight. But I think the Prime Minister has every right to say he's made a doctrine
34:03and he's repeating it just how many kilometers from Pakistan. This is a message to Pakistan.
34:09I don't think the villagers of Bikaner would know very much about, you know, the nuances of the doctrine that he's putting out.
34:16And it's a gutsy one.
34:19Yeh aakrosh nahi, yeh samarth Bharat ka raudra roop hai.
34:23Sandeep, the Prime Minister is making it very clear. This is not revenge. These strikes were not retribution.
34:30This is India's fight for justice. And your take, because if Asim Munir is strengthened within,
34:37look at the attacks that are taking place on Pakistan army. Their trucks are being stowed in Sindh.
34:42That entire Cholistan controversy is backed with the diversion of Indus waters.
34:47And I'll come to Indus waters in just a moment. The problems he's facing in Balochistan.
34:51The problem he's facing in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. You know, he's riding a tiger.
34:56He either will end up in the belly of the tiger of terror or he'll flee the country like some of his predecessors, Sandeep.
35:03Absolutely, Gaurav. You know, whichever way you look at it, it never ends well for these military dictators.
35:08And I'm calling Asim Munir possibly the 5th Pakistani military dictator in the last 7 decades.
35:15Because he is one. By elevating himself to a field marshal and creating this crisis, this whole thing.
35:22You know, the Pakistan military thrives on these crises. It is a parasite.
35:27It feeds off fear. It feeds off warfare. It feeds off crisis. And this is exactly what Asim Munir did.
35:33As Professor Chalani mentioned about a month back, he was one of the most despised men in Pakistan.
35:39And today he's used that crisis to, you know, catapult himself to the world stage.
35:43But, Gaurav, we have seen the Pakistan military for far too long.
35:47It always, you know, to quote Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park, the first one,
35:53where, you know, he says, oh, it starts like this. It's ooh, and it's ah, and all that.
35:57But, you know, where it ends, there's running, there's shouting, there's dying.
36:01And that's the way it ends for all of these dictators. You know what happened to all of those dictators.
36:06I don't have to repeat it, Gaurav. And, you know, to my mind, Asim Munir is someone with
36:12you know, a severe case of osteoporosis, who's firing heavy calibre weapons from his shoulder.
36:20I mean, how long can his body really take this kind of, you know, game that he's playing.
36:26So, it never ends well for the dictators, Gaurav.
36:29Let me come to the Brahmastra now. The new Narendra Modi doctrine also makes it very clear.
36:36Blood and water will not float together. No business as usual with Pakistan.
36:41No terror and talks together. The only conversation, if at all, with Pakistan
36:46will be on the recovery of Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir.
36:50Now, this, first listen in to the Prime Minister, and then I will tell you
36:55why India's military messaging, strategic messaging, and diplomatic messaging.
37:01It's not a T20 match, ladies and gentlemen. This is the long haul.
37:06And in the long haul, we have money, they are beggars.
37:11And beggars cannot fight wars on borrowed money, even if China and Turkey continue to fund them.
37:18The question is, how long? Listen in to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
37:31No talk.
38:02Pakistan will not get the water of India's rights.
38:13Playing with the blood of Indians will cost Pakistan dearly.
38:22This is India's resolve.
38:26And no power in the world can defeat us with this resolve.
38:36No power in the world can defeat us with this resolve.
38:42Professor Chilani, I once again want to start by asking you about,
38:46one, terror and talks can't happen together, point one.
38:49Point two, no trade.
38:52Point three, blood and water cannot flow together.
38:55Nobody can shake us from this point.
38:58Your appreciation of this statement.
39:01I agree with all three points.
39:03But we have to translate our rhetoric into action.
39:08I have been advocating the building of riparian leverage for more than 20 years now.
39:14I have been saying that riparian leverage can be more potent than even the nuclear weapons option.
39:20Now the Prime Minister nine years ago, almost nine years ago said,
39:24that blood and water cannot flow together.
39:27Now he is repeating the same line for nearly nine years.
39:30Since 2016 when he first made that announcement, that statement,
39:35what has India done to create infrastructure in the Indus basin to create riparian leverage?
39:45Unfortunately, nine years have passed without any new project being initiated.
39:52Hydro infrastructure projects take years to complete.
39:58And therefore we cannot lose time. So just talking.
40:02The problem is that if we just talk, we will be handing Pakistan an emotive card.
40:08In the last few days there have been mass protests in Sindh, number of killings,
40:13hundreds of people injured over water.
40:16The people in Sindh are protesting canal construction in Punjab, Pakistani Punjab,
40:22as well as corporate farming. Police have fired on unarmed protesters.
40:29And these are mass protests which have not been reported widely in Indian media.
40:35This shows that when you talk, but you don't translate your talk into action,
40:44you might hand your enemy an emotive card, they might blame India for the
40:51parched conditions in Sindh and Baluchistan.
40:54They will say it's India that is holding back the water.
40:57Yes, they may seek to, but wouldn't that Mr. Deveshwar actually make Asim Munir more unpopular
41:03because he wants those corner plots in that Cholistan desert.
41:07It's the Pakistan army that wants to corner, you know, thousands and thousands of acres of land.
41:13That is why they are diverting river and that is why Sindh and Punjab and Pakistan will be at war.
41:22You see the protests in Sindh on the construction of the Six Canal
41:27predate what happened in Pahelgam and India holding the India's water treaty in abeyance.
41:32It was somewhere in March, earlier or probably February when
41:37Mariam Nawaz and Asim Munir organized that thing for the Cholistan desert development.
41:451.2 million acres.
41:47There is no water in the Indus for Punjab to take out six more canals.
41:53And the fact that India continues to hold the treaty in abeyance,
41:58despite the cessation of hostilities, just shows the resolve and the determination.
42:04And I think the first thing that the government is doing now is that the residual water of the Ravi and the Satluj
42:11which continue to flow into Pakistan, despite the fact that we had 100% control over those rivers,
42:17needs to stop. And I think something major and quickly is being done on the Satluj.
42:22Ravi has already been done. I think Satluj is being done.
42:25Even in the western rivers, you know, where Ratli and Kishanganga are there.
42:30I mean, I don't know full details, but I think a lot more will be heard about it in the future time.
42:36So I think the important thing is the treaty is being held in abeyance.
42:40And the Prime Minister made it very clear that and all the other non-planetary measures equally
42:46are not affected by the cessation of hostilities, the agreement which was reached on 10th of May.
42:51But that is something which is going to hurt Pakistan in the long run.
42:55It is not this quick fire of missiles and drones, but stoppage or holding the water in abeyance,
43:02releasing it at our own sweet will, stopping it at our own sweet will, not sharing data,
43:08not informing Pakistan about flooding, is the one that is going to hurt Pakistan the longest.
43:14And the real cost of terrorism for Pakistan, they will begin to realize very soon
43:19because the early Kharif season is going to begin very shortly.
43:24And the pain is already being felt. They may seek to blame India, but in this interconnected world,
43:31facts come out. There are journalists in Pakistan who are asking some questions.
43:35There are journalists overseas. You know, the western media is biased against India.
43:40It's almost like the white man who's not very happy with Indians doing so well,
43:45taking an independent foreign policy decision. But that's exactly what India will continue to do
43:51in the times to come, irrespective of what Donald Trump may think.
43:56If he's a friend, he has to be a friend in need. If not, then there can be a transactional relationship
44:03between two countries and that is where India, of course, Dr. Tara Karthal, last 30 seconds on this part of the show,
44:08India also has a couple of aces up our sleeve. He needs us as much as we need him.
44:14Oh, absolutely. And, you know, to just add to this Indus water, you already started feeling Bagliyar.
44:22And the Kharif season is already underway. Next will be Kishanganga. The pain is going to be immediate.
44:29And I think if that, like Mr. Devarsha said, those protests were happening, you're going to add to it, simply and that.
44:38In fact, actually, the US, the rest of the US establishment is pretty OK with us in the sense,
44:43we've got so much, there is a huge amount of cooperation going on.
44:47So it's not as if anybody is doing anyone any favors. It is not like that at all.
44:52These are bilateral exercises where they have a stake in the Indian Ocean and we have a very important role to play.
44:59So Trump's political posturing aside, I think we are pretty OK with the US establishment as of now.
45:08So that's the reality, I think.
45:10I will let that be the last word on this part of the show. But this is a story we'll be, you know,
45:16reporting very frequently in the days and weeks ahead. Many, many thanks to all our guests
45:20for joining me on this very interesting conversation.
45:24Major anti-red terror operation security forces have successfully killed top Maoist commander Basav Raju,
45:32also known as Nambala Keshava Rao. Now, the operation was called Operation Black Forest.
45:39It was meticulously planned for over 21 days. Now, these anti-Naxal operations,
45:45they unfolded across the dense and rather hostile terrain of Bijapur, Narayanpur, Sukma,
45:52several districts of Chhattisgarh. It was launched with the coordination and coordinated efforts
45:59of the DRG, of the Cobra Commandos and of the Central Reserve Police Force.
46:03An operation that witnessed, ladies and gentlemen, the deployment of over 5,000 troops,
46:105,000 troops for over 21 days. They surrounded the Korai Gutta Hills and this is a red terror stronghold.
46:19Look at the kind of mines that were found and diffused and controlled.
46:24Detonations were carried out. The weapons that were located.
46:27This is one of the strongest bases of the Maoists of the red terror.
46:33There are five strategic directions from where these operations were mounted.
46:38Reinforcements were called in. Drones were used for surveillance.
46:42Helicopters for quick movement of men and material.
46:45The key targets, four Naxal factories, they were neutralized.
46:49Destruction of multiple underground bunkers. Intelligence support came through.
46:54Surveillance, helicopters. One of the major threats detected during the operation
46:58was a massive 450 kilogram IED, an improvised explosive device.
47:04And that highlights the scale of the Naxal preparedness.
47:09Searches that were carried out, and watch this, watch this.
47:12Searches that were carried out revealed food, grain, 12,000 kilograms of rations.
47:21Now this is how long the Naxals planned to hold out. 12,000 kilograms.
47:26They could have held on state forces for over two years without having to look out.
47:31Now this operation, Black Forest, marks a significant blow to Naxal infrastructure
47:36and showcases the precision and coordination of India's internal security agencies
47:42that are moving forward with one motive, one laksha, as they say.
47:48To destroy red terror strongholds, the last two districts of the red terrorists,
47:54and fulfill the Union Home Minister Amit Shah's pledge that India will be red terror free by March 2026.
48:03Jeetendra Bahadur Singh brings us this report.
48:16April 6, 2010.
48:20A Central Reserve Police Force team was ambushed.
48:25Tadmitla Forest, Dantewada, Chhattisgarh.
48:3076 CRPF personnel were killed in the ambush.
48:36This was the worst ambush of security forces by left-wing extremists in the country's history.
48:45Resulting in the deaths of 76 CRPF personnel.
48:52The Maoists laid a well-planned ambush targeting a team of CRPF personnel
48:58returning after a long-range area domination mission.
49:04The pre-dawn attack was planned and executed with military precision,
49:09with Maoists occupying higher ground and opening fire at the CRPF personnel from multiple sides.
49:19India Today reported the biggest setback to India's war on left-wing extremism.
49:28Headlines Today also spoke to the peace negotiator,
49:30who's been trying to bring about some sort of a ceasefire,
49:33so that the Maoists and the representatives of the government
49:36perhaps could sit together and thrash out an understanding.
49:39Swami Agnivesh told Headlines Today's political editor Javed Ansari
49:43that he had conveyed the Home Minister's message to Azad,
49:46and had got positive feelers from the Maoist spokesperson.
49:52Dr Manmohan Singh had described them as the biggest threat to India's internal security.
49:59There have been heavy casualties inflicted recently on our security forces by the Naxalite groups.
50:08There are also indications of yet more offensive action by these groups.
50:14The problem of left-wing extremism is indeed a complex one.
50:22Security forces believed Nambala Keshava Raju or Basava Raju
50:27was the key planner of the Chintalnar massacre of security forces.
50:35He was again suspected to be the mastermind of the 2013 attack in the Jhiram Valley,
50:41where a convoy of senior Congress leaders was targeted.
50:46Senior Congress leaders including Vidya Charan Shukla, Mahendra Karma and Gopi Madhwani
50:53were among 27 killed in the Maoist attack.
50:57This is the biggest internal security challenge for both the centre and the seven main affected states.
51:04The Maoists had threatened to avenge the killing of their leader Azad.
51:08They attacked with impunity across the Red Corridor.
51:12Earlier coordinated attacks in Jharkhand, in Chhattisgarh and in Orissa.
51:17Is the lack of coordination between the centre and the states hampering the anti-Naxal operations?
51:26Union Home Minister Amit Shah post-2019 tasked security forces to hit at the roots of left-wing extremism.
51:35An ordered establishment of multiple company operating bases in districts that had been cleared of Red Terror.
51:43The focus shifted from containing to eliminating Red Terror.
51:48The security forces also mounted the bigger intelligence-based operations to neutralise terrorists in their strongholds.
51:58Undeterred by two milestones being missed in the past, security forces armed with the latest night-vision devices,
52:07weapons, drones and helicopters for speedy movement, strongholds were identified and neutralised.
52:18The big success came with intelligence inputs of Basavaraju holding a meeting with over 40 top Maoist leaders in Ambujmadh region of Chhattisgarh.
52:29Security forces mounted a multi-pronged offensive, neutralising Basavaraju on the night intervening Tuesday and Wednesday.
52:3927 Maoist leaders and cadre were killed in action.
52:47It was a big win for our forces yet again in the anti-Naxal war.
52:51Naxals have been killed in Chhattisgarh operations.
52:54In fact, top Naxals Basavaraju, who are also among those who have been killed by our forces,
53:01claimed Naxal Basavaraju had one crore bounty on him.
53:06Remember, the backbone of Naxals has been broken in Chhattisgarh and it's a huge milestone in Naxal-mukta Bharat Push.
53:15And on Thursday, security forces announced his second-in-command, Sajja Venkata Nageswara Rao,
53:22also known as Rajanna, Yesanna and Naveen, originally from Jandrapet village in Chiramala Mandal of Bapatala district.
53:34Security forces believe this truly is end-game Red Terror in line with the Home Minister's March 2026 deadline.
53:46Bureau report, India Today.