During a House Veterans' Affairs Committee hearing last week, Rep. Kelly Morrison (D-MN) questioned VA Secretary Doug Collins about workforce cuts within the department.
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00:00Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Secretary, welcome. I want to begin by thanking you both for your
00:07military service, for your service in this role as secretary, and for being here to testify today.
00:14Before I begin, I just want to preface my questions by sharing with you that my
00:17husband is an Army combat veteran, and I care deeply about our nation's veterans,
00:22as I know you do. And while we belong to different political parties, I want you to
00:26know that I genuinely want you to succeed in this role, because that is what is in our
00:31veterans' best interest. Now, I know you had the opportunity to visit the Minneapolis VA
00:36earlier this week. I hope you enjoyed your time there. We are incredibly proud of our VA,
00:41which, as you know, is a CMS-rated five-star hospital, one of only two such hospitals in
00:46the greater Twin Cities metro area. I believe the Minneapolis VA can be a model for the whole system.
00:52But I have to be honest with you, Mr. Secretary, the conversations I've had with veterans in my
00:57district and caregivers at our VA have me concerned about its direction under this administration's
01:04leadership. I know there's been a lot of talk today about RIF efforts at VA, and I apologize
01:10that this feels redundant, but I just think it's so important. And I know you don't want to talk
01:14specifics, but consistent with your testimony, can you commit to us that any reduction in force at VA
01:20will not threaten veterans' care and benefits? Yes, that has been my goal all along. And can I
01:26also say this, Minneapolis is great and is really an example. And for just, and I don't mean to say
01:33this, but one of the reasons we have it is we have some longevity of leadership there. That is
01:36something that is, I'm looking across our hospitals and others, and we have up and down leadership.
01:41Leadership is so important there, and I appreciate what is happening. And leadership, after we had our
01:46conversation, it was very frank. And they said before here, and we were concerned, and now hearing
01:51it straight from me and hearing what we're trying to do, I think it gave them a renewed sense of purpose.
01:56I'm really glad to hear that. So, and I know this has been asked, but I have to repeat it. Can you
02:00commit that no doctors or nurses will be fired as any part of the RIF?
02:05We're not going to fire any, we're not going to be riffing anybody that's actually taking care of
02:09employees, not employees, but anybody that's taking care of our veteran direct care.
02:12Okay. And patient support employees, sir. Can you commit to us that no housekeepers or environmental
02:18health technicians? No, they're all part of the, in fact, they're already exempt.
02:22Pest control and laundry workers? They're part of the 300 per thousand that we've already exempted.
02:27I am very relieved to hear that. You know, my point really is that, you know, I'm a physician,
02:34and after more than 20 years of practicing medicine, I can tell you that it is very much a team sport.
02:39The whole team plays a role in patient care, the physicians and nurses, of course, but the support
02:45staff is incredibly important as well. These people are mission critical to the delivery of
02:50care, and firing them would affect veteran care. These are people who help ensure their operating
02:55rooms are sterile, the patient's bedsheets are clean, the medicine and equipment are delivered
02:59in a timely fashion. And you've mentioned that you want clinicians returning to the bedside to provide
03:04care. Obviously, if we fire the support staff, then the clinicians are going to have to fill in
03:09those roles. So I'm relieved to hear that they will not be impacted. And I want, I will, I think we
03:19will want to hold you to that, because that, I am concerned that there's a crisis of morale right
03:24now at VA. I was actually really shocked when I spoke with some frontline VA workers at our Minneapolis
03:31VA just the other day. And I was pretty shocked when they said, two of them said, I question whether the
03:40secretary actually cares about veterans. I was really devastated to hear that, Mr. Secretary, and I
03:46would assume that you would be too. Because despite our political differences, I genuinely believe that
03:52every person in this room cares about serving our veterans, including and especially you. You know what it
03:57means to put on the uniform and serve our country, Mr. Secretary, and I have immense respect for that.
04:02But I have to say, it's troubling to me that VA providers caring for my constituents feel this way.
04:08These are your employees, Mr. Secretary. These are the people we trust to care for our veterans. And
04:12they're, they're scared right now. If we continue to go down this road of firings, and what they feel
04:17like is intimidation, we're going to lose good people. And it's going to be veterans that pay the price.
04:23And I know neither one of us wants that. So I, my question for you is, what are you going to do to
04:28improve morale at VA? Well, first and foremost, being here, being in every interview that I have,
04:35I've spent 100 days in which we have tried, we have been, instead of working many times on
04:40issues that we have found looking at how we can improve and do this, I have been fighting rumor
04:45and innuendo. And I, this is the problem that I have from day one. There are reasons that people
04:51are scared, and it's not coming from my office. It's coming from folks who actually talk about the
04:56things that I've talked about earlier. When we have reports saying, you're going to fire 15% of
05:00the doctors at Minneapolis. That's just a lie. Well, but Mr. Secretary, respectfully, that 15%,
05:0583,000 number came from your people. It did come from my people, but it has no, it has no context to
05:10actually firing frontline employees of which I've talked about. Because here's the deal. I've said
05:15it many times. I repeat it every time that healthcare providers who provide that frontline
05:19care, even the ones that you mentioned earlier, are not included in this. But yet every time I turn
05:23around, there's another article or there's another someone in the community or a member of Congress or
05:28otherwise, they're saying these radical cuts, these radical things. I'm having to sit here and fight
05:33about this the whole time when I've actually said it. So my question is, why is the voices of those who say
05:38this is going to hurt being processed and amplified when the very one from the secretary of VA who is
05:45sitting right before you is saying this is the part in process that we're going through?
05:48Mr. Secretary, we would welcome you to this committee anytime. Please brief us. Give us some
05:54transparency so that we can reassure VA employees. I do want to ask one other question. The VA Center for
06:02Women Veterans sent out an email blast just last night that said it was embarking on an ambitious goal
06:08to enroll one million new women veterans in VA. I think that's commendable. We've discussed today
06:14that women veterans are the largest growing group of veterans. And I, of course, support the effort to
06:20bring more women veterans into VA. Could you share a little bit more about your strategy for doing so?
06:27And surely a significant increase in demand will require more clinical staff and space, won't it?
06:32What is VA's plan for reaching this milestone that you've set?
06:36Well, one, I think the milestone is great. I'm glad you recognize it. We're looking at that
06:39encouraging. But again, it's this is hard to overcome at this point. I mean, because without
06:44going through the process here of where we're actually looking at cuts and putting people back
06:49in places where they need to be in which we could actually increase capacity in some of our clinics and
06:53some of our hospitals, which will not affect and actually would welcome these going forward. I think
06:59that's the fundamental issue that we're dealing with here is there's is there's an understanding of what
07:03we're trying to do and how that's actually playing out. Mr. Secretary, I hope you'll come back to our
07:08committee and testify about all of these issues. We'd love to know what your process is. And thank
07:13you so much for being here. Mr. Chair, I yield back.