During a Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee hearing last week, Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) spoke to VA Secretary Doug Collins about proposed cuts to VA staffing.
00:03Thanks for the time, a few minutes we just spent in the office.
00:07You know, I was going to ask you some other questions until I ran into some folks at the elevator
00:12who are concerned over the proposed 83,000 cuts in the VA.
00:17And they asked me specifically, would I publicly oppose those cuts?
00:22I said, I can't.
00:24I said, what do you know about these cuts?
00:26What do you know where they are?
00:27Are they potential cuts that will improve access, outcomes, or cost?
00:35So my question to you, what I did tell them, though, is I don't believe cuts are real
00:39unless there's a rescissions package sent to the U.S. Congress so that we codify those cuts.
00:47And so my commitment to the folks that I was talking to was when I see that rescissions package,
00:51if it's at odds with what I consider to be in the best interest of the VA, I may vote against it.
00:59But right now, can you give me an idea of how you would rack and stack each of those 83,000 jobs
01:03and where you are in that process, and can we expect at some point in the future to have a rescissions package?
01:08Yes, Senator, I think the biggest thing here is, I think what we've got to understand is,
01:13is when you start out in any business, and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on,
01:17when you go out to look at somebody, you just don't go say, just go do something.
01:21That's been happening at the VA and many agencies in the federal government for a long time.
01:24And typically what you get is a spattering of this.
01:26You get some who are interested, some are not.
01:28So when you look at it and you put a 15% number, which everybody characterizes,
01:32and I've been accused of firing 80,000 people here, which is not true, nobody can predict that,
01:37and also no one in this dais on either side of the aisle can say that that many people is going to be fired,
01:42because this is the reason.
01:44When you take a 470,000-person organization and you begin to look at its efficiencies,
01:49you begin to look at the fact that between the hospitals and the central office,
01:54you have added significant layers of bureaucracy that go into this.
01:59You can't do it.
02:00So we're looking at every step we can, but also I'm not going to play it out in a public arena,
02:04because that's the other time, is if we start saying, here's everything we're looking at,
02:07then you start in a pre-decisional kind of format, you're not working it.
02:11Look, I get it.
02:12What I try to explain to them, I ask them, and I think some of them may be in the audience.
02:17I want to know that I heard you.
02:20But I ask them, how do you rack and stack it?
02:22Tell me which specific positions you're concerned with.
02:25Obviously, they don't know the answer to that, because I don't know the answer to that.
02:29But here's the problem, folks.
02:31Is the VA just great?
02:32Do we just put it on autopilot?
02:36Because that's the question.
02:37When people say, don't change, I'm saying, right.
02:39So you're happy with the current state.
02:41You're happy with a poorly implemented PAC Act that I tried to get people to hold off on until we got it right.
02:47Now we're dealing with a shortfall there.
02:48So look, don't be against something because it's new.
02:52And by the way, any of you need it, I've got extra copies of who moved my cheese in the office.
02:56We've got to move the cheese in the VA, folks, because we're not performing.
03:01When's the last time I've heard people stand at a parade and say appointments are rocking?
03:06Boy, they're doing great.
03:07When's the last time I heard that the electronic health record's great?
03:10Somebody, some folks need to lose their job on a poor implementation, and I've got your assurance that they're moving forward.
03:15Folks, the VA is not working for veterans.
03:19And if we just say everything has to say the same and you've just got to have more money and more people, you're looking at it the wrong way.
03:26Maybe at some point when we prove that we're improving access, improving outcomes, or reducing costs, when those policies come before me, then I get excited.
03:35But in the meantime, I'm open to anything that's going to improve the service to people and make an installment on a debt that we can never fully repay.
03:45But we need to be honest with these veterans and tell them change is necessary to do that.
03:50And so to the veterans that I met with outside the hallway today, you recorded it, but you can use this response.
03:55This response is, I'm open to any suggestion that improves the condition for veterans, period.
04:03And I can't say no to something because it makes me feel uncomfortable.
04:06I don't know if it's 83,000, 8,000, or 800, but I have confidence in you to go through that process.
04:14And at the end of the day, I will make a judgment on your decisions because I would expect a rescission package to make sure that those positions are not going to be approved in the future.
04:22And that's how I will complete my job as a U.S. senator.
04:26But in the meantime, I'm not going to say don't change because we have to change to do a better job for veterans, folks.
04:34And we have to be a little bit uncomfortable in going through it.
04:40Thanks, Senator.
04:40I couldn't agree with you more.
04:42And I think the interesting thing that I came in here today was, again, hearing some of the comments and opening statements and stuff,
04:48I would almost have thought that up until January of this year, there was no problems in the VA.
04:53Wait, nothing to see here.
04:54Nothing to see.
04:55So the minute we start trying, can we make things better?
04:57My only criteria that I have is looking forward in this is making sure that we're taking care of the veterans first.
05:03That is the only criteria that we're looking at going through that.
05:06And if that means we reshape the workforce, we do.
05:08That means if it goes, a goal is whatever a goal is.
05:11But at the end of the day, the metric is are we taking care of veterans?
