During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing last month, Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) questioned VA Secretary Doug Collins about cuts to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
00:00Senator Ossoff, good to work with both of you on this really critical committee.
00:04Secretary Collins, you are charged with making sure we keep our promises to our veterans.
00:09And I will tell you, as the daughter of a veteran, one who had great need for the VA benefits,
00:14I take this work seriously.
00:17Now, Mr. Secretary, I know you hate scaring our veterans, but here's what I know.
00:22When you fire thousands of VA staff with no rationale beside Musk said so, that really scares veterans.
00:30When you cancel hundreds of contracts, including a cancer registry in my state, that scares veterans.
00:37When you muzzle our researchers, that scares veterans.
00:41When you eliminate the VASP program, which helps save veterans from foreclosure on their homes, that scares veterans.
00:48When you remove language saying veterans and doctors can't be discriminated against based on their political views or marital status
00:56with no explanation until after people called it out, that scares veterans.
01:01And more than just scaring veterans, it puts the care and the support they have not only earned, but are entitled to in serious jeopardy.
01:10So if you're concerned about scaring veterans, my suggestion is to stop doing what you're doing.
01:16Focus on what matters.
01:18Stop implementing policies with no explanation or analysis.
01:23Lift the hiring freeze and get our facilities fully staffed.
01:27So to that end, I have a few questions about some of the actions that veterans have told me.
01:32They are deeply concerned about.
01:34And I hope today you can put their minds at ease and give us some clear, straightforward answers.
01:39Secretary Collins, there's been a lot of discussion regarding your decision to modify VA provider guidelines
01:46that would open the door to discrimination.
01:48You struck the words age, national origin, politics, marital status, and disability from the anti-discrimination policy
01:58that was applied to our VA hospitals and our clinics.
02:01When you changed the guidelines and removed the words making clear when discrimination is not tolerated,
02:07what you actually signaled to veterans across the country that they may be actually denied the care that they need.
02:13So, Mr. Secretary, if you insist these categories are already covered by federal law
02:19and therefore your changes do not provide openings for discrimination,
02:23will you commit then to reinstating the previous policy?
02:28Senator, this is exactly what, and I appreciate you taking my own words,
02:31because it's about time that somebody up here actually decided that they were not going to continue to repeat
02:35false things that keep people and veterans from actually trusting the VA.
02:39And by bringing this up again, which was a Guardian article,
02:43which, by the way, two major publications, the Post and Times,
02:47others who looked into this said there's nothing there,
02:50but the Guardian who wanted clickbait decided to run with something,
02:53and then it was amplified, is scaring veterans.
02:56And if they're concerned, because also, understand something,
02:59no, I may finish this, because this is important.
03:01Because I've been accused of this.
03:03It's not scaring.
03:04Nothing was changed that actually affected it.
03:06This is the problem we're seeing.
03:08I mean, Title V U.S. Code 2302,
03:12prevents discrimination based on marital status political affiliation.
03:167102, participation in rights and barring interference with those rights, all there.
03:20VHA Directive 1019, governing all medical services provided by VA
03:23and prohibits discrimination on the basis of marital status or political affiliation.
03:27There's nothing changed.
03:28By the way, our bylaws also don't say that we have to feed our patients three times a day.
03:33Should we put that in there specifically?
03:34Mr. Secretary.
03:35No, I'm not going to let you get away with this.
03:37I'm going to tell you.
03:38I have the floor for a second.
03:39No, I mean.
03:40Wait, let me just tell you.
03:41You're not being truthful with this.
03:42What I'm telling you is what veterans here and what Americans here, please listen.
03:47When you take something out, it says that's been eliminated, period.
03:52No, it does not.
03:53Only when you have a cheap magazine like The Guardian who wants to put it out there
03:58and put it in a position and then have actually people of your stature and others who amplified it.
04:03How can it be that something that doesn't change anything,
04:07that fact checkers have already said doesn't change anything?
04:09Okay, your position is it doesn't change anything.
04:11It doesn't.
04:12I hear you.
04:12There is no position.
04:13It is the fact.
04:14Well, do you think it's possible to be eligible for care
04:18and still be discriminated against when you try to access health care?
04:21No one is discriminated against at the VA.
04:24And by simply repeating that could keep somebody from getting the critical mental health care that they need
04:29and that would be on you and anybody else that wants to repeat it.
04:31Well, Mr. Secretary, in fact, many of us have heard from women veterans.
04:36Then did you help correct them?
04:38Mr. Secretary.
04:38Did you help correct them?
04:40Or did you align the line?
04:41Did you?
04:42You took the word.
04:43I did.
04:43I did not.
04:44I've been on TV, I've been on TV, I've put out videos, I've done everything because of a false article.
04:48I cannot believe we're still going down this route.
04:50Well, I can believe it.
04:51It's amazing.
04:52I can believe it when you take words out that people hear them.
04:55And I'm telling you that, Mr. Secretary.
04:57I'm simply telling you when you took those words out, people heard it in a specific way.
05:03Therefore, I'm asking you, why don't you put them back in and eliminate them?
05:06No, they heard it in a specific way because a reporter who looked for clicks decided to write an article that he knew was false.
05:12Again, I have heard from women veterans about experiences, which is why I have...
05:18Do you have an example that you can give to me because I'll make sure it's created?
05:20Nobody is to be discriminated against.
05:22You're going to call each individual woman in the country and tell them they're not going to be discriminated against.
05:25There's not every woman in the country that's done this because, number one, we only serve veterans.
05:28Well, let me move on.
05:29I want to ask you about the Toxic Exposure Fund.
05:32This is really critical.
05:33Congress has already appropriated funding for medical care, which has been passed into law.
05:40Your budget request proposes to cancel $18 billion of that money and shift it over to the Toxic Exposures Fund.
05:48I am supportive of putting funds where they're needed, but I do want to make sure that you are aware there are specific limitations for the use of those funds that are in statute.
05:59These are guardrails to prevent misuse and address concerns.
06:05We put that in because of concerns from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle who were very concerned about turning that into a slush fund.
06:12So can you commit to us that you will abide by those limitations for all the funds being spent from the TEF to include agreements which made with the committee about what expenses incident to delivery of care means?
06:26We're committed to following the law and the stuff that we're supposed to in this, and I know this was a concern from previous administrations because the previous secretary to my seat actually said he could do whatever he wanted to with those funds.
06:37I'm willing to work with this committee, as I have said and told you before.
06:41I'll work with this committee to follow the rules on that.
06:43All I'm asking is you're asking to move $18 billion into that fund.
06:48Are you committed to following the guardrails, the language, the statute language that surrounds those funds?
06:55Because, Mr. Secretary, if that is true, then how can you commit that the veterans who were not eligible for care that is unrelated to toxic exposures
07:05will not have their care cut off or limited because of the $18 billion decrease to funds?
07:13Because as we look at our budgets and we take the monies that are coming in, we're going to meet the needs of the veterans who come before us.
07:21Well, I find it really challenging to think that you can take $18 billion out of general medical care, put it into the TEF fund,
07:29and I have no problems with the TEF fund as long as we live by the limitations, but that is care that other veterans will not see.
07:38And let me just ask you, Mr. Chairman, if I have time, one final question.
07:43I have repeatedly raised concerns over the direction VA is taking with the research program,
07:48and now it was reported that VA officials are ordering physicians and scientists to not publish their work without seeking approval from Trump's political appointees.
07:59According to a VA official, this policy is specifically in place to prevent, and I quote, negative national exposure.
08:08So, Mr. Secretary, if a research finding would advance veterans' health but does not align with the administration priorities,
08:16will you allow it to be published?
08:19I'm not familiar with the question you have and not going to answer a hypothetical, but I don't foresee anything.
08:23We've not done anything to restrict our researchers in going forward.
08:26Well, this is on your website.
08:27Okay, we're not restricting our researchers.
08:32Well, if you...
08:34I mean, I don't know how to answer the question.
08:36If you are ordering physicians and scientists to not publish their work without seeking approval,
08:41you can answer that in a forced way by saying, yes, of course, we're not going to say no.
08:45But then I'm asking...
08:47Yeah, that had nothing to...
08:48I think we're...
08:49If at best, and I'm not even sure this is at best, but I'm going to reach here and say,
08:53this is also discussing a policy that had nothing to do with research and publishing research.
08:58It had a meeting about talking to media on other issues.
09:02But I'm happy to take this and see what you're actually discussing, but nothing has changed as far as we know.
09:07So...
09:07No, the researchers can do their research.
09:09All researchers.
09:12You will not deny a research that shows that this, whatever, helps veterans.
09:17Again, hypotheticals.
09:19I mean, we can go down all...
09:20I can't answer a question.
09:21We don't have an exact, you know, a question at the end.
09:24I mean, at the end to a question.
09:25I'm sorry, but it leaves me with a question.
09:27Is this research or that research?
09:28Arbitrarily, you're going to say no to any kind of...
09:31I'm not...
09:31At this point, I'm not saying either way, Senator.
09:33I'm sitting here saying that we're not restricting it.
09:35I'm very curious about how you're going to move forward on research.
09:38Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:40Chair Collins.
09:42Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
09:45Welcome, Mr. Secretary.
09:48Maine has one of the highest percentages of veterans in the entire country,
