- 5/10/2025
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00:00Arjun is in the middle and on the one side is all his all the people who rely on him
00:06other side is though is the enemy but they're also his family so that's what
00:11the entire Bhagavad Gita is devoted to freedom from the conditioning of the
00:15body and the conditioning of the mind just marini said jag dare meroman anand
00:20it's not at too many places that Shri Krishna directly exhorts Arjun to fight
00:26every time I read the Bhagavad Gita I would understand it very differently if
00:33this war happens then all the Kshatriyas might be killed and then what happens to
00:38our women how do I kill my my own brothers out there Gita is about letting
00:44Arjun know who he is he is kind of accusing Krishna of misleading him the best
00:53thing was served to Arjun first of all that began entire wisdom literature is
01:00absolutely silent of what you can do what you cannot do so that's what the entire
01:06Bhagavad Gita is devoted to freedom from the conditioning of the body and the
01:10conditioning of the mind the Bhagavad Gita is called the very essence of
01:14Upanishads you know the world is afraid of death and that's what gives me joy I
01:18want to die Bhagavad Gita has been very close to me so when I was a child my
01:27grandmom she actually knows Sanskrit and she used to take Gita classes in our
01:32native place in Kerala so I used to attend Gita classes with her when I was
01:37eight nine and after I finished my MBBS I decided that I have one year to study
01:46for my entrance exam and I took up reading Bhagavad Gita every Sunday almost as a
01:52you know what that lucky may a Karunga my one help me study better and my grandmom
02:01only took me through that again so that was the second time I read it and during the
02:07pandemic I read it a third time what was very interesting was every time I read the
02:12Bhagavad Gita I would understand it very differently it almost felt like it was a
02:22completely new book which makes me wonder that the last time I read it I was 33 I'm not 36 I wonder if
02:35if if every five years I read it for the rest of my life will it always be a
02:41different book it will be and the more it changes and the more speedily it changes
02:50the better because you see it's a very special book where the words have been
03:05addressed to the ego to the ego with a view to convince itself of its non-existence
03:17which means that the very purpose of the book is to change the reader right the very purpose of the
03:32discourse is to change the reader I pick up the book and I think I am somebody and if I am honest with
03:41the reading then the reading will convince me that I am not what I think of myself right that is the
03:51the first leg of the the second part is the principle that what I read what I think what I construe as the
04:04reality is a function of who I am hmm the same words will mean something to you and something else to me I mean very basic
04:20but somebody writes here okay this is a goat this is a goat and you might think of it as a pet I might think of it as food
04:30right depends on who you are depends on who I am same words here is a goat
04:39these words mean very different things to you compared to what they do to me yes so if you change the meaning of those words will change and the very purpose of those words is to change you yes so those words exist to change me
04:58change you I am talking about the Gita those words exist to change you and when you change the meaning of any words you read will change which means that if the Gita is successful upon you you will find its meaning evolving therefore I said that I wish that the change happens with a greater speed
05:22greater speed hmm that makes sense and I'll add one more point which is it is likely that you will open the Gita at a time when you are maybe going through some conflict which means that you are more in your ego at that point which means the change would be even more stark right see it's like this
05:46I have some eye condition I cannot see properly right somebody gives me a particular tube some ointment or something or some drops given my eye condition can I read what's there on the label no or can I read those micro words that are usually there on such tubes and bottles I can't
06:13I can't but it has been given and for some reason I decide to apply it I do not know what really it is maybe I can read what's there in big and bold beyond that nothing so I have some idea of what it is and using that idea I apply it and when I apply it what happens my eyesight gets better and then I can see more of what I have just applied
06:35and if I can read the instructions there and next time I apply it in an even better way and if I apply it in an even better way then I am able to read the whole thing even better so I get into a virtuous cycle you see we are not talking of the tube we are talking of the Gita but the analogy is perfect because we are talking of seeing seeing we are talking of seeing
07:04Yes one thing I really liked about the Gita the last time I read it was for the first time I noticed how the first chapter begins with a conflict and the stage the setting of the story is so beautiful that Arjun is in the middle and on the one side is all his
07:34all the people who rely on him other side is the enemy but they are also his family and he is now conflicted that should he fight should he not and the rest of the book is about resolving that conflict now in this case the conflict seems to be a very big one war but conflict is something that we go through everyday every minute should I call up my friend or not should I order
08:03swiggy or not whatever everything is a swiggy or not whatever everything is a conflict and I had never noticed it before but it suddenly felt that oh this is a very practical book very practical book that it begins with a conflict
08:15you know chapter one that you mentioned Shri Krishna doesn't utter a single word
08:22really I didn't notice that not a single verse and that's what makes the whole thing so relatable chapter 2 starts with chapter 2 is Shri Krishna Uvaja even in chapter 2 even in chapter 2 it's after a few verses that Shri Krishna Uvaja
08:43Shri Krishna Uvaja comes in so chapter 1 is us you and me right chapter 1 is there to bring us into the picture everybody is talking Dhritarashtra is talking yes Sanjay is talking yes Duryodhan is talking Arjun is talking
09:05Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uvaja Shri Krishna Uv
09:35Very remarkable is this chapter one.
09:38It comes up with two things.
09:41One, they are my friends, kin, kit.
09:49How do I fight them?
09:51They are related to me by blood.
09:54So that's physical conditioning.
09:56You know, even animals have that.
09:59They usually don't want to attack their own pack, their own tribe.
10:05Second thing that Arjun talks of is social conditioning.
10:12If this war happens, then all the Kshatriyas might be killed.
10:18And then what happens to our women?
10:21Probably the women will go to those who do not belong to our Varna or caste.
10:28And then what will happen?
10:31Arjun goes on explaining.
10:36He says, you know, the kids that will be born out of such illicit relationships,
10:42they will not be qualified to offer the right rituals to our dead ancestors.
10:50And then their souls will suffer in various kinds of hells.
10:55So now this is, all this is religious dogma.
11:01All this is religious dogma.
11:03Social conditioning.
11:05Arjun has heard of all these things from somewhere.
11:07They are not coming from the body.
11:08It's all coming back.
11:09First of all, it has come to Arjun from the society.
11:13It is not even arising from the body.
11:16You know, that there are higher castes and lower castes.
11:20And that there are souls somewhere in the sky.
11:23And that if you offer the right kind of rituals, then those souls are appeased.
11:28So that's social conditioning.
11:29That's religious dogma.
11:32So two kinds of things Arjun is suffering from right in the first chapter.
11:37One physical conditioning.
11:39How do I kill my own brothers out there?
11:43That is physical conditioning.
11:45The second is social conditioning.
11:47Higher caste, lower caste and the status of women.
11:49You know, there are women.
11:51How do we let our women go to the other side?
11:54And what about the kids that will be born?
11:57All kinds of things.
12:00That sets the stage for what's going to come now.
12:03What's going to come now is a demolition of physical and social conditioning.
12:10I call it freedom from vritti and sanskriti.
12:16Vritti as in the physical tendencies, sanskriti as in the social culture.
12:22And that's what Krishna goes on to very successfully deconstruct.
12:28That's beautiful.
12:30So that's what the entire Bhagavad Gita is devoted to.
12:35Freedom from the conditioning of the body and the conditioning of the mind.
12:41And it's not at too many places that Shri Krishna directly exhorts Arjun to fight.
12:49That happens only rarely.
12:53Gita is about letting Arjun know who he is.
12:58In a very liberal way, Krishna says, if you realize who you are, then you will know what to do.
13:05I do not need to instruct you.
13:08I do not need to command you or school you.
13:14That's for kids.
13:17So Arjun is not even being motivated, let alone being instructed.
13:26He is being illuminated.
13:29And that illumination enables him to do what he must.
13:35I had this thought that because of that conflict, Arjun is going through an anxiety attack.
13:44And there is a phrase that the hair on his skin is standing, his mouth has gone dry.
13:52Typical symptoms of an anxiety attack, specifically shivering, weakness, limbs are weak.
14:00So full sympathetic crisis.
14:03His adrenal gland is really active, cortisol levels have gone up.
14:07Yes, yes, yes.
14:08He is now in that state of mind.
14:10He is panicking.
14:11And because of that, he is catastrophizing.
14:15He is only imagining worst case scenarios.
14:19He is imagining, he is spiraling.
14:22And you can see that.
14:23So it's almost like you are listing the symptoms of an anxiety attack in chapter one.
14:28Right.
14:29And later on, what comes in the next chapters, like you said, is an exercise in how to deal with somebody who is going through an anxiety attack.
14:40Because Krishna does not immediately say, hey, get over it.
14:44Or just get up and fight.
14:47Just get up and fight.
14:48Just do your job.
14:49It's not that straightforward.
14:51So I thought also, what a great framework to deal with somebody who is going through a mental health problem.
14:58In fact, the way the mind is classically defined is that it is an aggregation of objects and structures around your sense of self.
15:13So it's me, the I, at the center, you could say the linchpin.
15:19Yeah.
15:20And me being who I am, I accumulate a lot of stuff around myself like one does in his home.
15:28And that, all that accumulation, that aggregation and those relationships, that entire network is the mind.
15:37So any crisis of mind is actually a crisis of the one who accumulated the mind.
15:47Because mind is just objects and objects in themselves are not conscious or sentient.
15:54Objects do not know anything.
15:56So it's never the mind that is agitated.
16:00The agitation of the mind is a symptom, not the central cause.
16:07It's the self that is not restful.
16:13And the only thing that makes the self not restful is absence of self-knowledge.
16:18So when the self, the ego, is not at rest, the mind will be agitated.
16:25The ego cannot be seen.
16:27But the mind can be experienced as the brain.
16:30And there can be very tangible and physical symptoms.
16:33Nobody has ever seen the ego.
16:35But the mind is more tangible.
16:40And the brain as we know, the brain is the body.
16:42It is very tangible.
16:45So we say the mind is agitated just because we cannot see the ego at the center of the agitation.
16:53So if the mind is not the root cause of agitation, if the ego is at the center of agitation,
17:00and if this diagnosis can be done, then the treatment of mind must begin with the treatment of the ego.
17:09For the ego to be treated, first of all, the disease has to be known.
17:12Or the condition has to be known at least.
17:14The condition of ego is one of lack of self-knowledge.
17:19That is the very definition of ego, not even the condition.
17:24The ego is the self that does not know itself.
17:29So because the ego does not know itself, it is sick.
17:35It is a cultivated sickness.
17:38It is a fake sickness actually.
17:40The ego is not really sick.
17:43It is a sickness that it has just superimposed upon itself.
17:48The ego is struggling with lack of unity with…
17:54See, it is like this.
17:56I think of myself as a bird.
17:59And now I am anxious that I cannot fly.
18:03The thing is, you are not a bird at all.
18:05The moment you realize that, the anxiety is gone.
18:07So lack of self-knowledge can lead to all kinds of anxieties.
18:11If I take myself to be what I am not, I will expect myself to do things that I can't.
18:18And in today's world of social media, our identity has never been more fluid.
18:23Not fluid.
18:24You see somebody with a fancy car, you suddenly assume the identity of someone with a fancy car.
18:30And now not having a fancy car gives us sadness.
18:33And the problem with this fluidity is that it is an imposed fluidity born out of helplessness of the one it is being imposed on.
18:45What does this fluidity mean?
18:47It basically means that you can come and affect my identity in one way.
18:52Now you leave and somebody else comes and my identity becomes dependent on that one.
18:57This is the fluidity we are talking of.
18:58It is a state of helplessness.
19:00I am not in charge of who I am.
19:02Anybody comes and starts determining my sense of self.
19:06My state of mind.
19:07My state of mind.
19:08Why?
19:09Because I do not know who I am.
19:10If I do not know, let's say, my own name.
19:13And you come and address me as AB.
19:16Then I am AB.
19:17For the while.
19:19Then that one comes and calls me CD.
19:21I become CD.
19:22Again.
19:23For a while.
19:24So that is fluid identity.
19:26Fluid identity.
19:27And it is a state of great slavery.
19:30Helplessness and powerlessness.
19:32Just because I do not know who I am.
19:35But if I know that my name is something.
19:38Why?
19:39Why?
19:40You can come and address me the way you want.
19:43I won't even mind.
19:45It will be a nice joke.
19:46He too can address me the way I...
19:49He pleases too and I won't even mind.
19:52And there will be no crisis within.
19:55Arjun does not know himself.
19:59He is a victim to both these conditionings.
20:02The social one and the physical one.
20:06As we all are.
20:08So, I advise my students.
20:13First of all see that you are Arjun.
20:16Because the Gita was instructed to Arjun.
20:20Only an Arjun can be rightful recipient of Gita.
20:25If you are not Arjun, the Gita will not help you.
20:28First of all you should see that you are the victim of multiple identities and all kinds of conditionings.
20:35Just as Arjun is.
20:37And then step by step.
20:39Verse by verse.
20:40There will be some resolution.
20:42As you said.
20:43So, that is the reason the Gita is so useful.
20:49And also became so common place.
20:52Because the very setting is of familiarity.
20:57Unlike the Upanishads.
20:59Where the entire setting is idyllic and far removed from the usual householder's life.
21:08The setting of the Bhagavad Gita is extremely relatable.
21:13Everybody can relate to the Bhagavad Gita.
21:15The Upanishads and the Gita they carry exactly the same message.
21:19They form part of the core of Vedanta.
21:23But still, the Upanishads are not as famous, not as relatable.
21:30But they carry the same message.
21:32They carry the same message.
21:33In fact, the Bhagavad Gita is called the very essence of Upanishads.
21:40And Vedanta is supposed to be having three legs.
21:49Just to explain it.
21:51Not legs exactly.
21:53Not stump exactly.
21:54But the audience would understand it this way.
21:57That's called Prasthan Tray.
21:59Prasthan Tray.
22:01The three pillars you could say.
22:03One of the pillars is Upanishads.
22:07And one of the pillars is the Bhagavad Gita.
22:10And then the third one is the Brahma Sutra.
22:12So the Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita.
22:15They belong to the same bracket of scriptures.
22:21Much the same.
22:23Yet Gita is far more famous than the Upanishads.
22:26Because of the packaging.
22:28Because of the packaging and the relatability quotient.
22:31There is feeling.
22:32There is emotion.
22:33There is drama.
22:34There is bloodshed.
22:35And there is history.
22:37It is a part of the Mahabharata.
22:38And the Mahabharata has so much that fascinates us.
22:42So the Gita became far more famous.
22:44Which is better scripting overall.
22:46Much better scripting as well, yes.
22:48One analogy that I observed.
22:50And I don't know if this is true or not.
22:53Is that the entire story is written from the perspective of a blind king.
23:00Being told what is happening with somebody with second vision.
23:06Yes, yes, yes.
23:07I wondered if there is a metaphorical explanation to this.
23:11Which is that it is not easy to look inside our own conflict.
23:16Yes, yes, yes.
23:17Was I reading too much into that?
23:19No, no, you are not.
23:20No, you are not.
23:21No, you are not.
23:22Okay.
23:23Everything there has layered meanings.
23:26Yeah.
23:27And the more we get unlayered, the more the layers upon the core meaning.
23:38You could also just remove when the core is uncovered.
23:44You could very well say that the blindness of Dhritarashtra is metaphorical.
23:55An indicator of a deeper inability to see.
24:00Hmm.
24:01When the second chapter starts, that's where we get into the...
24:05Or we start getting into the meat of the matter, the conversation.
24:08Yes.
24:09Now, the way the advice goes through the different yogas, karma yoga and the sanya.
24:20Why is it arranged in that specific order?
24:22Why is it karma yoga first, sanyasa yoga?
24:24The arrangement is not really original.
24:27Okay.
24:28The arrangement came later.
24:30Oh.
24:31The division of chapters in this particular way, and particularly the naming of the chapters.
24:39That came later.
24:40So, we need not read too much into why one particular chapter is named in one particular way.
24:47Okay.
24:48But what I find interesting there is that the war lasted 18 days.
24:53Yeah.
24:54And there are 18 chapters.
24:56That is true.
24:59So, was it one per day?
25:02I think, I think.
25:05Just, you know, cute little things to keep us engaged.
25:09And pointers and reminders that there is still something more to it.
25:14More to it.
25:15But one must not read too much into these things.
25:17Otherwise, one will miss the central message.
25:20Yeah.
25:21I want to talk about the three main yogas in the Bhagavad Gita.
25:26So, let's talk about the karma yoga first.
25:29Which is, put it in a nutshell, what I've understood is action takes precedence over everything else.
25:38But is that the right interpretation?
25:41See, as we were saying Gita comes from the legacy of the Upanishads.
25:52In fact, you know, very strictly speaking, the Upanishads are placed higher than the Gita.
26:03The Upanishads form part of what is called the Shruti literature.
26:08Revealed literature.
26:10Literature without an author.
26:13Literature without a human author.
26:16A parushaya literature.
26:18So, Upanishads come from there.
26:21Gita forms part of Smriti literature.
26:24Where the scripture is the product of an author.
26:30Of an author. A human author. It's a human creation.
26:33So, the Gita forms part of Mahabharata.
26:35And Mahabharata is attributed to Vedavyas.
26:38So, very, very strictly speaking, because Upanishads are Shruti and Gita is Smriti,
26:44the Upanishads are in some sense above the Bhagavad Gita.
26:48So, that is not practically how it is accepted.
26:51And it is also not useful to put it this way.
26:56But it's important to see that it's the message of the Upanishads that will reverberate through all the chapters of the Gita.
27:09It has to.
27:12The Upanishads are Gyan.
27:16What is Gyan?
27:18Gyan not in the sense of knowing about the world and this and that.
27:23Atma Gyan. Self-knowledge.
27:26So, the core message of Gita 2 is self-knowledge.
27:33Arjun, please understand who you are.
27:37So, what is Karma Yog then?
27:41Focus not on the karma but on the karta, the doer.
27:46Know who you are.
27:48If you focus too much on the action, you will be deluded.
27:54Look at the actor.
27:55If the actor is right, you need not think about the action.
27:59The action will fall in place on its own.
28:02That's Karma Yog.
28:04I like to put it this way.
28:06Chapter 2 comes before Chapter 3.
28:09Chapter 3 is Karma Yog.
28:10Chapter 2 is Gyan Yog.
28:11Got it.
28:12Fair.
28:13So, the best thing was served to Arjun, first of all.
28:14Gyan Yog.
28:15That's the Gyan Yog.
28:16But Arjun was still reticent.
28:17You know, Krishna, I have my doubts.
28:18In fact, at points, he is kind of accusing Krishna of misleading him.
28:24That is the extent, you know, attachment and delusion can delude you.
28:42So, after Gyan Yog, which is Sankh Yog, then there is Karma, and all the things that follow.
28:53So, Karma, whenever Shri Krishna says Karma, it's Nishkam Karma.
29:00Whenever Shri Krishna says Gyan, it's Atma Gyan.
29:04So, Karma Yog is actually Nishkam Karma Yog.
29:08Nishkam Karma means action that is not coming from a desirous self.
29:16Action that is not coming from a desirous actor.
29:21And if you do not know the actor, the actor will remain desirous because we are born incomplete.
29:28Where there is incompletion, there is desire.
29:30Desire to be complete.
29:32If I do not know myself, I will remain incomplete and therefore all my actions will be full of desire.
29:38Therefore, the only way Karma can be Nishkam is through Atma Gyan.
29:44You cannot have Nishkam Karma without Atma Gyan.
29:47Otherwise, your Nishkam Karma will be very superficial.
29:50On the surface, you might feel you are acting without desire.
29:53But there will be some lingering desire within that you might even not know of because you don't know yourself.
30:00And that desire is not something that can be fulfilled by just achieving the next target.
30:08No, no. It never gets fulfilled.
30:10It never gets fulfilled.
30:12You can get fulfillment only through getting negated.
30:19So, today, in my heart, there are desires.
30:23Yes.
30:24There are things that I want to achieve in medicine, in social media or whatever.
30:29Now, I cannot say that I will let go of these desires after I have achieved, say, one million on YouTube.
30:38There is nothing like that.
30:39No, no, no.
30:40Nishkam Karma is not about not having desires.
30:42Nishkam Karma, I repeat, is about not having desires coming from a point of incompletion.
30:51It's about the actor, not about the action.
30:54It's about the desirous one, not about the desire.
30:57You can have desires.
30:59I can have desires.
31:00You can have desires.
31:01But your core must be desireless.
31:04Then your desire will not be for your personal self.
31:09Then your desire will actually be auspicious for the entire world.
31:14Nishkam Karma is not about not having desire.
31:18Sri Krishna does not use prescriptive language.
31:21No, do not desire.
31:22Just go and fight.
31:24No, not that way.
31:26So, we said it's not about the action.
31:29It is about the actor.
31:31It is not about the desire.
31:33It is about the desirous entity.
31:36So, it is about the desirous entity.
31:38Nishkam Karma means the one who used to have desires has now known himself.
31:45And after you have known yourself, all the evil within is dropped, disappears, vaporizes.
31:54The only evil within is lack of self-knowledge.
31:58Once I know myself, I am clear about who I am.
32:02It is not as mundane as I am making it sound to be.
32:07But once you have known yourself, there is nothing called one-knowing yourself.
32:12There is no end to it.
32:14But for the purpose of this conversation, I am putting it in simplistic terms.
32:17So, once there is that, what could I call it?
32:22Purity within?
32:23Clarity.
32:24Or clarity within?
32:25Then, in some sense, you are entitled to desire.
32:30You are not even entitled to desire.
32:32You are obligated to desire.
32:33You are not even obligated to desire.
32:35You are free of all obligations.
32:37Now, go ahead and just play.
32:43For instance, if my identity is an F1 car driver and through and through my identity is that,
32:51I will desire to win the race because that is my identity.
32:56But you are saying that I can do that as long as my core self is detached
33:07The entire wisdom literature is absolutely silent of what you can do, what you cannot do.
33:15It is totally silent on that.
33:18It is not prescriptive.
33:20It is not an instruction manual.
33:22I feel we are at the crux of something here because if you crack this, huh?
33:26Yes.
33:27So, it is not about whether you can want that, whether you can achieve that, whether you should do this, whether you should do that.
33:33Is that allowed in your religion?
33:35No, no, no.
33:36We don't do these things.
33:37We are Jews.
33:38We are Christians.
33:39We are Buddhists or Hindus.
33:40No, no.
33:41That is not the way of wisdom.
33:43What you do, what you wear, what you eat, how you marry, whether you marry, we are not going to get into that.
33:51That is not the way of wisdom.
33:53We want to look at who we are.
33:56We want to look at who we are.
33:58And after that, whatever happens is auspicious.
34:01Fine.
34:02Who am I to tell you how to live?
34:05But yes, if you are struggling, I would probably come to you and throw some light on the way.
34:11You know, you are struggling, you are stumbling, you are falling, you have hurt your knees.
34:16I would say, friend, here, here, here is a torch.
34:21There is some light.
34:22But you have to use your own eyes.
34:24And whether you want to use the torch is again your discretion.
34:28I am not going to impose it on you.
34:30You have to do it yourself.
34:32So, all wisdom literature is about enabling you to see.
34:38See what?
34:39First of all, who you are.
34:41You are.
34:42And what does that mean?
34:44Because if you repeat that phrase too often, it becomes very cliched and who I am, who I am appears so mysterious, one gets lost in it.
34:52It is not about seeing who I am.
34:54It is about seeing who I am not and yet have become.
34:57I am not this and yet I have become this.
35:01Many times you find yourself in situations where you almost feel like you are acting.
35:07You are acting.
35:08Because you have been trained to act.
35:10Yes.
35:11You have been conditioned to act.
35:12You know.
35:13In this situation, it happens.
35:15It happens.
35:16It happens.
35:17It happens.
35:18Now that the fellow has arrived, you are supposed to smile and greet.
35:24Now the fellow says, oh, I lost my job.
35:26You are supposed to offer some kind of commiseration.
35:29Correct.
35:30Correct.
35:31So, I am not that.
35:33But something happened in the process of my journey through life and I just got indoctrinated, conditioned to do that.
35:43So, Gyan is about freedom from what you are not and yet have been forced to become.
35:50It is freedom from becoming.
35:53Becoming that came to you in the past and becoming that pulls you to the future.
35:58What does future mean to us?
35:59Becoming, right?
36:00I want to become such a thing in the future.
36:02And all this becoming associated with the future is actually a residue of the past.
36:07Pushing you.
36:08You cannot have desires for the future devoid of pure experiences of the past.
36:14Correct.
36:15If you remove everything that has happened to you in the past.
36:17Yes.
36:18What will you do?
36:19There is no desire for the future then.
36:21You cannot have dreams and aspirations then.
36:23Right.
36:24So, we remain entangled in all that and the net result is suffering.
36:27So, wisdom then, the way Krishna is imparting it to Arjuna, is about seeing what Arjuna is not.
36:36Arjuna, why are you behaving this way?
36:38You know where your action is coming from.
36:40Arjuna, can you see where your action is coming from?
36:43Therefore, there is a tremendous lot of negativa the Gita deals in.
36:48NIRASHI NIRMAMO BHAVA YUDDHASVA VIGATAJAR
36:54So, you look at the construction of the very word.
36:57Drop hope.
36:59NIRASHI BHAVA
37:02Drop ownership.
37:04The sense of possession.
37:05NIRMAMO BHAVA
37:07You see how the very word is constructed?
37:10Hope is towards the future.
37:12Ownership is from the past.
37:14Drop these things.
37:15Drop these things.
37:16In fact, the entire repository of words that you find in the Gita, they themselves tell you what Shri Krishna is attempting.
37:24He is saying, just drop it.
37:26Just drop it.
37:27Just drop it.
37:28And if you do not drop that, then you will drop the Gandiv.
37:31So, pick up the Gandiv and drop the nonsense.
37:35Right.
37:36Because when you think about motivation, why are we doing anything?
37:40We are most likely being either pushed by something in our past or pulled by something in our future.
37:45I am doing this hoping that something will come in the future or I am doing this because I have committed to something.
37:53Actually, there is not even an or in between.
37:55You know, as you stand, as you stand, as you stand, as you stand, there is the past that you think is behind you.
38:02Huh?
38:03And the future is but a mirror.
38:05What you look at as the future is nothing but a reflection of your past.
38:13Here I am and there is a mirror there.
38:15And what I see in the mirror is stuff that is actually behind me.
38:20So, there are no new dreams actually.
38:26Right.
38:27What we are dreaming of is actually just the stuff of the past repackaged.
38:31Or things that you can see other people do.
38:33Things that you have seen other people do.
38:36Yes.
38:37Again from the past.
38:38Again in the past.
38:39Correct.
38:40Yes.
38:41Because what can you dream of in the future that has not happened?
38:44Can you think of anything that has not been in our experience so far?
38:48No.
38:49Even imagination is dependent on the repository of experiences.
38:54So, all hope and optimism is just projected past.
38:58Projected past.
38:59And that's what the Gita is attempting to read Arjuna of.
39:04In psychology and even in neuroscience, when it comes to motivation, there are these terms called external motivation and internal motivation.
39:12Yes.
39:13So, all external motivation is motivation influenced by things that have happened around us to us.
39:19And internal motivation is one that comes from within.
39:22And there is a lot of discussion whether, is there an internal motivation?
39:27Isn't everything external motivation?
39:30In the world of Gita, first of all, the external and the internal motivations become one.
39:38Secondly, both become redundant.
39:42Krishna is not motivating Arjuna.
39:45Krishna is illuminating Arjuna.
39:47In fact, the very core of Gita is motive-less action.
39:52I'll put all motivational speakers out of business.
39:56Oh, they hate me.
40:00What do I do?
40:01Nishkam karma is motive-less action.
40:03What do I do?
40:06You are trying to motivate.
40:08Shri Krishna is saying motivation is nonsense.
40:13What do I do?
40:18Knowledge leads to action.
40:20The Gnana Yoga leads to Karma Yoga.
40:25After that is renunciation.
40:30Actually, no.
40:31It's not even that.
40:33Knowledge does not lead to action.
40:36Knowledge makes action superfluous.
40:41In knowledge, you cease to bother about action.
40:47It's not that if you have the right knowledge then you will do the right action.
40:52No, no, no.
40:53That's not the framework.
40:55Once you know who you are, you need not keep an eye on yourself.
41:01Because action still assumes will.
41:04Will.
41:05Now, there is no will.
41:06There is just a certain very peaceful completion.
41:11And after that, you can allow yourself to just play and flow.
41:15That's Siddhartha Vedanta.
41:16Go play.
41:17So, if you gain the knowledge that you are water, you will flow.
41:22You will flow.
41:23If you gain the knowledge that you are a rock, then you will be there.
41:26And if you understand you are nobody, then there is no need to have prescriptive checks on yourself.
41:36Why else would you want to determine your action in advance?
41:40Why would you want to plan your action in advance?
41:43Only when, first of all, you have a model of things.
41:46To be free of ignorance is to be free of all models.
41:49Now, you can act freely.
41:51Now, you can act in ways that even you have not thought of.
41:55Now, this kind of freedom as you hear it, as you hear of it.
42:01Does it not terrify you?
42:07It's scary.
42:08It's scary.
42:09That quantum of freedom, that immensity of freedom, where even you do not know what you are going to do next.
42:14Yes.
42:15It's horrible.
42:16And that's the reason why the real thing could never become Masi.
42:21That's why India, in spite of being the mother of these things, Indians could never partake the benefit.
42:28At least not the bulk of Indians.
42:31Because even when we talk of this freedom, we are talking of freedom from self.
42:37Because what we identify as self is that person who is acting.
42:42We still associate freedom with freedom of choice.
42:45Freedom of choice.
42:46And here you are saying that once you have that level of knowledge, there is no need for choice.
42:51There is no choice.
42:52Because there is no chooser.
42:53There is no chooser.
42:54There is nobody to choose.
42:56Correct.
42:57So, in a way, that is death.
42:59That is death.
43:00Wonderfully put.
43:02And that death is something that wisdom literature sings so beautifully.
43:09And so, just tugs at your heart strings.
43:14If you hear the saints singing of death, that inner death.
43:17That inner death.
43:18That inner death.
43:19That inner death.
43:24He is saying, you know, the world is afraid of death.
43:26And that's what gives me joy.
43:27I want to die.
43:29And of course, he is not talking of physical death.
43:32He is talking of the inner death.
43:34The mahamrityu.
43:35That must come to you before the body falls apart.
43:38Ego death.
43:39Ego death.
43:40And that's the purpose of life.
43:42There is a term that is used in psychedelic literature called ego dissolution.
43:49And all psychedelic effects are measured on a scale of five parameters.
43:54So, there is one called oceanic boundlessness.
43:56There is one called ego dissolution.
43:58There are four or five others.
43:59And ego dissolution is when you feel your ego dissolving.
44:05Who is there to feel?
44:09That's the question mark.
44:12All that is Maya.
44:14To feel that you are not.
44:16Who is the one feeling?
44:18It's like saying, I am silent.
44:21Then who is speaking?
44:22Who is there to utter that you are silent?
44:25Which reminds me of this conflict which is there in monotheistic religions about going to heaven.
44:30How will you go to heaven?
44:32See, that's a question that religious people so often fail to ask.
44:37Who?
44:38Who is going to heaven?
44:40Who?
44:41Who?
44:42Who?
44:43To whom?
44:44Whose?
44:45All those questions.
44:46They don't ask.
44:47Tell me about bhakti.
44:52Love.
44:53Love.
44:54Is it the same as surrender?
44:57Surrender to whom?
44:59And by whom?
45:01I see I am not what I must be if I am to live in peace or fulfilment or joy, whatever word
45:11we choose.
45:12So I surrender this sub-optimal self.
45:17That's surrender.
45:18To what?
45:19To my greatest potential.
45:21You could call it the complete being, total being, absolute being or equally you could
45:25call it non-being.
45:27Non-being.
45:28So that's love.
45:29That's bhakti.
45:30You are not surrendering to an external entity.
45:34No, no, no.
45:35Never.
45:36So when people stand in front of a photo or an idol or a book or anything and they surrender
45:41to that entity, is there a difference?
45:45See, there is a choice then.
45:48The only problem is that it becomes infeasible.
45:52Surrender becomes infeasible when you are surrendering to somebody outside of you.
45:57Why?
45:58Because now there is a choice.
46:00You chose to surrender to that.
46:01You did not choose to surrender to this.
46:04So the one making the choice is keeping himself intact.
46:08So how is now surrender complete?
46:10Partial surrender will happen and partial surrender is no good.
46:13Therefore, any kind of surrender to any external entity will never be complete.
46:18It will not deliver the goods.
46:20Okay, I would push back here saying maybe it's not equally good, but does it come with
46:27some benefits?
46:28There are some benefits.
46:29There are some benefits.
46:30It can be a preparatory thing.
46:31Yes.
46:32It can be a provisional thing.
46:33Yes.
46:34Because the benefits of prayer and even partial surrender to the brain is still noticeable.
46:39But you have to understand that unless you graduate just at the right time, you run the risk
46:54of rotting.
46:55In that state of partial surrender?
46:57In that state of partial surrender.
46:59Then that partiality can become addictive.
47:04It's a very comfortable spot that you have acquired for yourself.
47:09Where the ego gets the pleasure of being called a surrendered ego.
47:15It also gets the pleasures that come with all the things that you do.
47:22There obviously are some mental benefits to that.
47:25Yes.
47:26And then you don't want to move from that state.
47:28You think of that state as the final one.
47:31So, there's a great problem there.
47:33So, it's something okay to begin with.
47:36But very soon, you must graduate ahead of it.
47:39So, any proclaimed enlightened soul who is still in public talking about how they are enlightened,
47:49is it fair to raise a question mark on their enlightenment?
47:52There is no need to even raise a question mark.
47:54A question mark is when there is uncertainty.
47:57It is certain that they are fooling themselves.
48:00So, there is no question.
48:02Because anyone who has truly reached that, it does not exist anymore.
48:09To reach there is to disappear.
48:11Now, who is there to claim the credit?
48:15Now, who is there to make the declaration?
48:17I am enlightened.
48:18As long as you are, you cannot be enlightened.
48:20It's like saying, I am dead.
48:22Exactly.
48:23I come and say, I am dead.
48:24Sir, if you are dead, who is talking?
48:26Exactly.
48:27So, by the very act of declaring one's enlightenment,
48:32one has actually certified that he is not.
48:34They are not.
48:36Okay.
48:37Practical Bhagavad Gita.
48:38To a 25-year-old student or young working professional in India, they have never explored it before.
48:50Practical Bhagavad Gita, how would they start?
48:52What should they do?
48:53Do they need to read it?
48:57Yeah, obviously.
48:58They do need to read it.
49:01Obviously, the reading has to be there.
49:04I mean, it's a book.
49:05It's a book.
49:06It's a book.
49:07Correct.
49:08So, you have to read it.
49:10One must stay with the verses for long, very, very long.
49:16One should not be lazy with the interpretations because it's a famous scripture.
49:29There are just too many commentaries.
49:32One should, first of all, try to get into a personal relationship with the speaker, the author,
49:41whatever, creator, Arjuna, Krishna.
49:46First thing, there should be no need, no primary need for an intermediary.
49:57An intermediary should be called in only when there is a genuine obstacle.
50:04You know, I cannot proceed any further or this part is something I just cannot get any clarity
50:09with or I have some clarity with this, yet I think there is something more to it.
50:14Only then you should call for assistance.
50:16Otherwise, it should be an intimate thing between you and Krishna.
50:20Which also means that if you pick up a book, you should not be too eager to jump on to the
50:27elaboration, the bhaash, the commentary.
50:30There is the verse.
50:31See what you can make of it.
50:33When Krishna was speaking to Arjun, there was nobody in between serving as a middleman.
50:39It's not as if Krishna was speaking to some guru and the guru was then elaborating it to Arjun.
50:45There was a direct communication.
50:46Arjun had to struggle to understand just like you, the reader, will struggle to understand.
50:50You should avoid partisan interpretations and has to be a love affair.
51:02I mean, you cannot look at it like a textbook.
51:05You have to carry it wherever you go.
51:07You have to read one verse many times.
51:10Then you go back and forth.
51:13You return to a particular verse.
51:16You play with them.
51:18One of the memories that I have from my childhood.
51:22I'm sleeping.
51:24I've fallen asleep with the Gita on my chest.
51:29And it's open and some of the pages, they either get dog-eared or a little.
51:38And then in the morning, I get a bit of scolding.
51:42What have you done to the Gita?
51:45In fact, I hardly ever followed any prescriptive way.
51:52It was a love affair between me and Gita, between me and Krishna, where I actually didn't want a middleman.
51:59I actually got slapped once while having my dinner with the book open by my side.
52:12So a little bit of dal.
52:14And that's something that you don't allow in a Hindu family.
52:18Where is the reverence?
52:20There is a reverence.
52:21There is a reverence.
52:22First of all, you are not supposed to read it when you are eating.
52:24And I was doing that.
52:26And then to make something, some food item fall on the pages of the Bhagavad Gita.
52:32That's just not permissible.
52:35I am not advising that.
52:39But that just came to my mind.
52:42What I am trying to highlight is that there was a very genuine relationship.
52:48Try to get to the essence of what I am saying.
52:54Like kids carry their dolls wherever they go.
52:56Sometimes they do that, right?
52:58So, it should be a friendly learning.
53:02It was a friendly learning.
53:03And I was grappling, wrestling, doing all kinds of things with it.
53:07Arguing.
53:08Arguing.
53:09Not accepting it easily.
53:10Yes.
53:11I have argued endlessly with Krishna.
53:13Not that I have given in easily.
53:14No.
53:15No way.
53:16And that was not again the case with only this book.
53:19There were so, so many other books that I have grappled with.
53:25You know, there is this thing in salesmen where there is a book called Never Split the Difference.
53:32They talk about negotiation tactics.
53:35And one of the lessons is that if you are selling something to somebody and if they say yes, that makes you a bad salesman.
53:42Their first response should be no.
53:46Because that means they have heard you.
53:49People will say yes just to get out of a difficult conversation.
53:54Yes, yes.
53:55I will buy it.
53:56But if you can elicit a no, that means you actually have their attention.
54:01And then you have to convince them.
54:03So, I like that you argued because that means it hit.
54:08You see, how can there be surrender without struggle?
54:14Without struggle.
54:15Exactly.
54:16You are giving up the most precious thing in your life.
54:19All that I have is me.
54:21You want to have me, the totality of my existence.
54:25Correct.
54:26And I will just give in without a fight.
54:28No way.
54:29It is not a real giving in.
54:30No way.
54:31Correct.
54:32Where is the violence?
54:34I think that makes a lot of sense.
54:37I am, over the next one or two years, I will read it again now after this conversation.
54:45Wonderful.
54:46And I will be talking about this and I will be bringing in wisdom that I have gained from this.
54:54What I would eventually like to do is to bring more of a scientific lens to what the verses have said.
55:02Because there is a lot of biology.
55:04There is a lot of what is happening in your body.
55:06It talks of senses.
55:07It talks about levels of senses.
55:09Yes.
55:10It talks about levels of pleasure.
55:12And maybe 50, 100 years ago, the pleasure networks were not described in neuroscience.
55:19But now they are.
55:21So now when there is a verse on pleasure, I can compare with pleasure networks in the brain and understand,
55:29Oh, is this what it was meant for?
55:32In fact, I would like to possibly contribute with all the instances where Shri Krishna is referring to something that corresponds to neuroscience.
55:46He talks of, for example, nirmalendriya.
55:50So he distinguishes even between sense and sense.
55:55He says there is one kind of sense and then there is another kind of sense.
55:59Now what does that mean in the terms of whatever happens in the neurons is better obviously understood by you.
56:06And man, the relationship of the mind to the brain, the Gita goes into all that in length.
56:18It was very fascinating for me the last time.
56:22But I have since become more engrossed into it.
56:27So there is an open invitation here that we can do that at a deeper level.
56:35Definitely.
56:36Definitely.
56:37My pleasure.
56:38I do that all the time.
56:39That's my life.
56:40One verse, every single verse, we spend hours and hours on it.
56:51And these books that you see, in fact, they don't even contain all the verses.
56:59This is not even 10% of the work.
57:02So, and still, in spite of whatever I might have done, there is so, so much more that still needs to be done.
57:12So, I would be happy.
57:17It would be an honor.
57:19Acharya Ji, thank you so much for being a part of this conversation.
57:23Most welcome.
57:24Most welcome.
57:25I really enjoyed this conversation.
57:27It has been a learning opportunity.
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