UN warns Humanitarian situation in DRC's Goma 'extremely worrying'

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00:00Well, we start then with that growing unrest in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Our correspondent

00:17in Kinshasa has sent us this footage showing protesters today setting fire to parts of

00:24the Rwandan and the French embassies in the capital. Now, the embassies of the United

00:30States, Belgium and the Netherlands have also come under attack today. Police have fired

00:37tear gas at those protesters and the French Foreign Ministry on the platform X saying

00:43the blaze at the French embassy is now under control.

00:47Well, the unrest in the capital comes as fierce fighting is raging in Goma in the east of

00:53the country. Rebels from the M23 group backed by Rwandan forces entered the city on Sunday

01:00night. It is a major escalation in three decades of conflict in the region.

01:07Well, let's talk to Angela Diffley, our foreign editor, about all of this. She's been looking

01:12at developments and she's with me now. Angela, what more can you tell us, particularly, first

01:16of all, on what's happening in the capital in Kinshasa?

01:19It's very unclear. It's difficult to read how much of this is being orchestrated and

01:24how much of it is spontaneous. You mentioned there the embassies targeted and, of course,

01:29the French embassy, the fire there is now under control. There are crowds in the street,

01:34as we saw there, blocking roads. It's clearly a situation where most people will want to

01:39stay indoors and out of danger. And there are, as we can see, armed groups with guns.

01:47It's very unclear beyond that what exactly is going on, who is behind it and what it's

01:54hoped might be achieved. To go to Goma, UN agencies and the ICRC have been telling journalists

02:02today that there has been pillaging, raping, that a lot of humanitarian supplies have already

02:09been looted, that medical staff have been caught in the crossfire, as have patients,

02:14including babies, and that some medical and humanitarian infrastructure have been hit.

02:21It is a very dangerous situation, clearly, in Goma. They're worried as well that food

02:25supplies, water supplies are running extremely low. They've had to pause humanitarian aid

02:31deliveries and particularly food deliveries. A lot of UN staff evacuated yesterday and

02:37only the essential staff are still remaining there. There is this worry as well. The ICRC

02:43spoke to journalists and explained that there is a major laboratory in Goma in which there

02:51are samples of the Ebola virus. They're extremely concerned that that lab might be hit and that

02:59somehow the Ebola virus might escape with extremely dangerous consequences. As well

03:05as that, numerous civilians, it's been reported, have been killed in crossfire, as well as

03:11fighters on both sides and fighters from the two peacekeeping forces. There are South Africans,

03:16Uruguayans and Malawians who've already been reported among those killed in peacekeeping forces.

03:24All right, Angela, for the moment, thank you very much indeed. We'll come back to Angela

03:27in a moment. But first, let's hear from Clement de Roma. He's our correspondent covering developments

03:33for us on the ground today. He's currently in Giseny, which is on the Rwandan side of

03:38the border. Now, thousands of people have already fled across the frontier there, but

03:44the area has not escaped fighting. Clement, though, is reporting the situation somewhat calmer today.

03:54Since mid-morning, the intensity of fighting on the border between Rwanda and DR Congo has

04:00decreased quite a lot. I'm right now in downtown Giseny, a border town opposite Goma in the DRC,

04:05where M23 rebels supported by Rwanda have been fighting the Congolese army and its allies

04:10for control of the city for nearly a week now. The calm since this morning has allowed around

04:151,000 Congolese refugees to cross the border at Giseny and seek shelter in Rwanda, where authorities

04:22have set up a large refugee camp. Displaced people are met, recounted scenes of horror in Goma and

04:28claimed that several thousand others are still waiting there to flee the city. Many were searching

04:34for family members, and here in Giseny, in-town activities have resumed when the sounds of bombs

04:39and gunfire stopped and some shops are now reopening. But yesterday was a dark day for

04:45the city. Several shells and stray bullets landed on the Rwandan side on Monday, killing at least

04:50five civilians and injuring 35 others, according to Rwandan authorities. The Rwandan army also

04:55presented to the press more than 100 Congolese soldiers who surrendered and are currently being

05:00held in detention here in Giseny. That was Clément Di Roma reporting for us from Giseny in Rwanda. So

05:10clearly a really serious situation as you paint and as Clément does, Angela. What can be done now to

05:17try and stop this from getting even worse? There's been a flurry of diplomacy. We had the South

05:24African president Cyril Ramaphosa yesterday who called Paul Kagame, the Rwandan president. He said

05:30they agreed on the need for an urgent ceasefire. Kenya, which has been a mediator on many occasions

05:37in this conflict, has organized a meeting between Félix Jissékédi, the DRC president, and Paul

05:44Kagame of Rwanda tomorrow. There is an African Union meeting going on today and a UN Security

05:51Council meeting a little later today. The DRC are saying, well, look, the UN Security Council

05:57meeting on Sunday delivered nothing but words, declarations, nothing concrete. We want concrete

06:03action. It should be said also, Rwanda has limited patience with the United Nations,

06:11which did not cover itself in glory at the time of the Rwandan genocide. Paul Kagame

06:17is very much his own man when it comes to his relationship with the United Nations.

06:22That said, there are things that can be done. A lot of people are pointing to the fact that in

06:292012, the M23, this rebel force with Rwandan backing, took over. Kagame then captured the city

06:37and was in control. And Barack Obama picked up the phone and talked to Rwandan president Paul Kagame

06:43and managed to get the Rwandans to withdraw support from the M23. And the situation was

06:51relatively calm, relatively quickly. Will Donald Trump do anything like that? It seems extremely

06:57unlikely. He's spent a lot of time telling everyone he doesn't want to get involved in far

07:00away wars. Nevertheless, this is very, as we have said so many times, a mineral rich area.

07:05Coltan, which is used in car batteries, is in this area, as well as gold, tin, all manner of minerals.

07:14And there are a lot of business interests from so many countries around the world in this area.

07:18Should be said as well that the European Union recently gave 40 million euros to the Rwandan

07:26army because it wanted it deployed in Mozambique to help push back Islamists in Mozambique.

07:34France is particularly interested in that. In northern Mozambique, France has a total energy

07:40offshore plant and is grateful for Rwandan help in fighting Islamists there. So there are a number of

07:51different moving parts behind this story, as there always are. We'll wait to see what the UN

07:55Security Council say. We were saying yesterday that the DRC wants them to come up with strong

08:00sanctions, travel bans, freezing assets, that sort of thing, and stopping Rwanda exporting

08:07minerals, which the DRC says they often take from DRC and say are their own. That's what they say.

08:15Angela Diffley, thank you very much, indeed. Well, let's stay with this story now. I'm pleased

08:20to welcome to the programme, Eugene Biyan. She is a spokesperson for the United Nations

08:26Refugee Agency, and she joins us from Geneva. Eugene, thanks for speaking to us today. Look,

08:32I want to ask you, first of all, about the situation in Goma itself. We've been hearing

08:38reports that aid trucks are being looted, that there are limited medical supplies,

08:44food supplies, water supplies. What can you tell us about the humanitarian situation in the city?

08:52What we are witnessing at the moment in the Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo,

08:56especially in and around Goma, in North and South Kivu, is basically one of the worst

09:04humanitarian crises unfolding. This is not the new violence surging. It is a decade-long conflict,

09:12which civilians, once again, in the Eastern DRC, they are bearing the brunt of escalating violence,

09:21and they are a victim of this violence. And then, as you hear from others, that

09:28millions and millions of people already displaced in South and North Kivu region, they have,

09:36again, they had to forcefully displace within the region, and as well as to neighbouring country.

09:43Indeed. And look, what can you tell us about your own staff, about the United Nations staff who are

09:49in Goma? Are you evacuating people now?

09:53We do evacuate non-essential staff, as Angela mentioned, but we do have our critical staff

10:00members still in Goma. But the problem and our biggest concern is that we don't have absolutely

10:07no access to those people in need. They are lacking food, they are lacking water,

10:16they are lacking basic services. And then, yet, all the humanitarian organisation,

10:22we absolutely have no access, and there is a restriction on our access to those people in need.

10:27So their dire situation is getting worse by hour and by date.

10:33It's a really serious situation then for the civilians stuck in Goma. You're saying,

10:37effectively, the United Nations not able to reach those people for now. What about those

10:43civilians who have now fled Goma? Some of them, as we were hearing, have crossed the border into

10:49Rwanda. Many more, though, are displaced in other parts of eastern DR Congo. Do you have a sense of

10:56the number of people who are on the move? So if I give you the number that North and

11:03South Kivu itself hosted, 4.6 million internally displaced persons. And what we are seeing in

11:14January this year only, that half a million people have already been displaced. Those people,

11:21many of them, we don't have access. But what we are hearing from the refugees who crossed the border,

11:26they're just wandering around, place to place, just seeking safety. And we are hearing

11:33the majority of women and children who are most vulnerable. And also we are hearing the bombing

11:39falling onto the IDP side, internally displaced people's side. And then a lot of displaced people

11:46who are already vulnerable has to flee again without nothing, without having any opportunity

11:53to build their life again. And I did want to ask you about that. Actually, you mentioned these

11:58attacks on centres for internally displaced people. This is from your own organisation,

12:02from UNHCR, reporting that this month bombs have fallen on camps for people displaced

12:10inside eastern Congo. I mean, what can you tell us about what happened then?

12:15It is absolutely unacceptable that those places are the sanctity of the most vulnerable.

12:22We designated spaces to protect and provide protection. So those indiscriminate bombing

12:31and heavy artillery falling onto the IDP side, which already injured innocent, the displaced

12:37person, innocent civilian, and also took lives of innocent civilian, which is completely unacceptable.

12:44And UNHCR, together with other humanitarian agencies, were calling that this rent-lease

12:52violence and attack on those humanitarian sites has to stop. And then the both wearing party

12:59has to prioritise to protect and safeguard civilian and displaced populations.

13:05And look, a little bit earlier on, Eugene, just a final question for you. You emphasised,

13:10and that is obviously really important, that this is not a new conflict. Goma has been a hub

13:15for years, hasn't it, for people displaced from elsewhere in DR Congo. I just wonder now,

13:22given that we're seeing an even greater escalation in the fighting and the number of people who are

13:27going to seek your help, does the UN have the resources, have the money that it needs to help

13:35people? So that's our calling to international community. We shouldn't forget about this crisis.

13:44Of course, it has been a decades-long conflict, and then international community step up and then

13:49supported those people. But this is the moment that we should really step up our support to

13:57those people in need, as well as also that find the peace and a durable solution so that those

14:03people who deserve the dignity and hope and sustainable life to find the stability and then

14:12bring the peace in the region. Eugene Bion talking to us there from UNHCR in Geneva. Thanks very much.

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