Trump's new Dept of Govt Efficiency (DOGE) 'cleverly designed to get around congressional oversight'

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00:00First, the US President-elect Donald Trump has named Elon Musk to a role aimed at creating

00:11a more efficient US government.

00:14Musk and the former Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy will co-lead the

00:19newly created Department of Government Efficiency, an entity that is expected to operate outside

00:26of government.

00:27The move hands more influence to Musk, the world's richest man who donated millions

00:32of dollars to help get Trump elected.

00:36Brian Quinn has our report.

00:39Two wealthy Trump supporters set to take an axe to federal spending as the US President-elect

00:45named Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to lead a so-called Department of Government Efficiency.

00:53These two wonderful Americans will pave the way for my administration to dismantle government

00:57bureaucracy, slash excess regulations, cut wasteful expenditures and restructure federal

01:03agencies.

01:04Take over, Elijah!

01:06Musk, the world's richest man, pitched in some $200 million to Trump's campaign efforts.

01:11That bet has paid off big time.

01:14His net worth has risen by some $70 billion since Trump's victory.

01:19On the campaign trail, he claimed that the U.S. federal budget could be cut by at least

01:23$2 trillion, but without a clear plan for how.

01:27Well, we just take a look at all the federal agencies and say, do we really need whatever

01:35it is, 428 federal agencies?

01:37$2 trillion is more than the entire amount of congressionally approved discretionary

01:42spending for fiscal 2024, with the rest of the $6.75 trillion federal budget going to

01:48entitlement programs along with interest on the national debt.

01:52The new department will not actually be a part of the government, a distinction that

01:57spares Musk and Ramaswamy from both Senate approval and congressional oversight, an important

02:02exemption given the many potential conflicts of interest involved.

02:06Tesla and SpaceX are both subject to numerous federal regulations, meaning that Musk could

02:12soon in effect be overseeing the very agencies that oversee his companies.

02:17Even the new department's acronym, DOGE, has added to Musk's wealth, boosting the price

02:24of meme-based cryptocurrency Dogecoin, of which Musk is a frequent promoter.

02:32Well, let's speak on the programme live now to Christopher Featherstone.

02:35He is a lecturer in international relations at the University of York, where his research

02:40partly focuses on the policies of Donald Trump.

02:44Good to talk to you today.

02:45Thanks for joining us.

02:46Thank you very much.

02:48What is your initial reaction to the creation of this so-called Department of Government

02:53Efficiency?

02:56Well, it's a bold start.

02:58It's a bold claim to a ground on policy, to move in a direction that Donald Trump has

03:03referred to previously.

03:06But I think we're still a little bit too early to know exactly what will happen now.

03:11This is an interesting creation.

03:13It's cleverly designed to get around congressional oversight.

03:17But at the same time, that does mean that it's a little unclear what the impact will

03:21be.

03:22And what about for Musk himself?

03:26We know he played a role, didn't he, at least financially in getting Trump elected.

03:31Lots of money was poured in from him.

03:34When he took over the running of Twitter, as it was then, he laid off half of the staff

03:39at the company.

03:40So he does have rather brutal decision making in business, at least, doesn't he, sometimes,

03:45although we don't necessarily know, as you say, how he'll behave once he has a role in

03:49government.

03:50I'm just interested in how much influence you think the world's richest man will have

03:56then on the incoming government.

03:58Well, I think what you pointed out there is crucial, right, that he is the world's richest

04:03man and he has a close relationship with Donald Trump so far from the campaign trail.

04:08So I think that will be the root of most of his influence when it comes to his role

04:13within the new government, because frankly, we still don't actually know how that's going

04:17to work.

04:18I would be surprised if this creation, this body, department, which is technically not

04:24a department, actually has all that much of a greater influence.

04:28I would argue that Elon Musk will have more of an influence on Donald Trump through his

04:35personal relationship rather than through this particular department.

04:40And as I mentioned, Musk is to work with Vivek Ramaswamy on this.

04:47And I saw on Musk's own platform on X, as it is now, the Democratic Senator Elizabeth

04:54Warren pointing out the irony of the fact that we have the Office of Government Efficiency

05:00being run effectively now by two people instead of by one.

05:04And I wonder how you think they'll handle both of them working in it together.

05:08Well, I think that's a very good point.

05:10Is this the first case of government overstaffing that they need to deal with?

05:14I would say it's going to be a clash of personalities.

05:18These two are big characters, big prominent personalities and egos.

05:24So how well they are going to get along remains to be seen.

05:28But also this is one of those positions where actually the amount of time spent in the office,

05:33should we say, will be rather minimal.

05:36Both will be continuing with a large part of their other work.

05:41Musk especially has an incredible workload given all of his roles.

05:45So precisely how they're going to work together remains a little bit unclear.

05:49But I would be surprised if Vivek Ramaswamy is quiet in comparison to Musk.

05:55So we're going to get a lot of announcements about this.

05:58Whether we'll get actual policy is something that we have to wait and see.

06:03Look, just to try and get a sense of what this department might actually do,

06:08we've been taking a look at some ideas that Ramaswamy has had in the past.

06:12They include dismantling the Department for Education and even the FBI.

06:18I mean, could any of that really actually be on the cards now?

06:21Well, I think as a law and order president,

06:24Donald Trump would be incredibly unlikely to remove the FBI.

06:28It doesn't look great if you're trying to say that we need to reclaim the streets,

06:32bring back law and order, and you get rid of the federal agency

06:34responsible for a large part of the visible crime fighting.

06:39I think in terms of getting rid of departments,

06:42it has been mentioned repeatedly by Republican candidates.

06:45And it's something that the Republican Party has mentioned fairly frequently

06:49when it comes to election campaigns.

06:51And yet we've not really seen much of this within modern history.

06:54So as much as it is repeatedly referred to,

06:57whether this is something we'll actually see,

07:01there is an enormous question mark over that.

07:02We've seen calls for the Department of Energy, the EPA,

07:06Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Education,

07:09all of these things to be gotten rid of.

07:11Precisely how that would function where some of those functions

07:17that are deemed essential compared to the inessential workings

07:20of the rest of it would be worked out,

07:23how they'd make those changes actually come to fruition.

07:28It remains all up in the air.

07:30I don't think we have a clear plan.

07:32And I would be very surprised if we see any action

07:34such as removing a federal agency or getting rid of a government department

07:39within the next year at least.

07:41And just a final question for you.

07:44I saw today that the Guardian newspaper has announced

07:47that it's quitting Musk's Platform X, Twitter as it was,

07:52over what they say is disturbing content on the platform.

07:55I mean, I just wonder more broadly whether you think

07:59this is sort of the beginning of the end of X as a media platform

08:04because it has become increasingly full of fake news, hasn't it?

08:08It absolutely has. I think this is a key point.

08:10It's interesting that this is the point that we've said

08:13this is the level of fake news that is too much.

08:16You know, this is something that has been common on the platform for a while,

08:20especially after Elon Musk's campaign to free the speech on X or Twitter,

08:28as most people still think of it.

08:30So it would be interesting to see this as potentially the downfall of X,

08:36potentially the downfall of Elon Musk's role there as well.

08:39I think it's also broader than that, though,

08:42that this is a point where we could see the potential conflict of interest here

08:46of having someone who is a media company owner,

08:50apologies, a media company owner having a key role in government.

08:56That is a massive conflict of interest.

08:58So that, again, could also add to calls for people to boycott X.

09:05I don't know whether it's going to happen,

09:06but it's certainly a crisis point for X to negotiate, at least.

09:11Christopher Featherstone talking to us there from the University of York.

09:14Thanks very much indeed.

09:16Thank you very much.

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