Aiteraz Hai | Aniqa Nisar | ARY News | IPPs Crisis | Fawad Chaudhry's Big Statement | 28th July 2024
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00:00In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
00:20In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
00:50In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
01:20In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
01:22In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
01:50In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
01:52In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:20In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:22In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:24In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:26In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:28In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:30In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:32In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:34In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:36In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:38In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:40In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:42In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:44In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
02:46In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:14In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:16In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:18In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:20In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:22In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:24In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:26In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:28In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:30In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:32In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:34In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:36In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
03:38Before I come to the real question,
03:40I would like to listen to your thoughts
03:42about neutralism.
03:44There is a lot of talk about neutralism.
03:46When a dacoit attacks this house,
03:48the watchman can't say
03:50that he is neutral.
03:54Tell me, should you be neutral or not?
03:56Ali Meen Gandapur is saying that you should be neutral.
03:58No, that's absolutely right.
04:00But there is a context.
04:02If a dacoit has come to the house,
04:04the watchman can't say that he is neutral.
04:06Political neutrality is something
04:08that the constitution demands
04:10from the establishment,
04:12from the army.
04:14What Imran Khan has said,
04:16what Omar Ayub has said,
04:18what Leema Bibi has said,
04:20what Ali Ameen Gandapur has said.
04:22Imran Khan's statement is repeated
04:24that you were saying...
04:26Imran Khan had said that
04:28a person cannot be neutral
04:30between good and evil.
04:32But a soldier of the army
04:34is standing outside the polling station
04:36and he is going inside
04:38and he is attacking his favourite party.
04:40This is not neutrality.
04:42This is treachery.
04:44So, there is a context.
04:46Was the context like this in 2018?
04:48100%.
04:50Was it wrong at that time also?
04:52In 2018,
04:56you are basically saying
04:58that the election was rigged.
05:00Absolutely.
05:02Okay.
05:08I want to take you back
05:10a little bit.
05:12In Pakistan,
05:14the role of the establishment
05:16has been in the management
05:18from 1953 till now.
05:20That has been the role
05:22of the management.
05:24In 2024,
05:26a lot of work went ahead
05:28from the management.
05:30But it did not change
05:32as it did this time.
05:34And what was the reason?
05:36The reason was that
05:38earlier elections were
05:40based on electables.
05:42This electable was blown up
05:44and they came here.
05:46This time, Imran Khan's
05:48magic worked so well
05:50that your electable formula
05:52failed miserably.
05:54Therefore, the form 45
05:56had to be changed.
05:58The result of the elections
06:00against Fatima Jinnah was changed.
06:02It was either Fatima Jinnah's
06:04or now.
06:06So, what you are saying
06:08is that the management is right
06:10till that time.
06:12No, it should not be like that.
06:16In 2019-20,
06:18we were in the debate
06:20of quality democracy.
06:22We were saying that
06:24Pakistan should be behind
06:26but we did not know
06:28that in 2 years,
06:30we will be like Bangladesh or Burma.
06:34A European Prime Minister
06:36has been saying that
06:38Pakistan is going to be
06:40one of the powers
06:42in the near future.
06:44May Allah bless us.
06:46But in the current situation
06:48and policies,
06:50we have to be careful.
06:52You must have heard
06:54a lot of things.
06:56Let me come to the finance ministry.
06:58But before that,
07:00Mr. Asad Kaisar is saying
07:02that in December,
07:04he will see the elections
07:06and if he becomes the Prime Minister,
07:08he will become Mr. Imran Khan.
07:10Do you see anything like this happening?
07:12Won't the government
07:14put pressure on them?
07:16Two or three events
07:18are very interesting.
07:20The first thing is that
07:22they have failed
07:24to distribute the burden
07:26of the establishment.
07:28On the contrary,
07:30the establishment has
07:32given a shoulder to their political corpses.
07:34How long can the establishment
07:36bear this burden?
07:38They have made the Prime Minister
07:40on 18 seats and
07:42it is of no use.
07:44When you favor someone so much,
07:46they will want to be helped
07:48in distributing the burden.
07:50Actually,
07:52Zardari and Shahbaz Sharif's
07:54faces are so unacceptable
07:56for the people of Pakistan
07:58that all the blame
08:00of the establishment
08:02has been placed on them.
08:04Obviously,
08:06they have started
08:08distancing themselves.
08:10All the caretaker cabinets
08:12have been placed
08:14on the IPPs.
08:16That is not important.
08:18That requires a separate
08:20time for discussion as well.
08:22Is Mr. Khan's statement
08:24an olive branch to the establishment?
08:26Should we let the rest go?
08:28Are we acceptable?
08:30Are our faces acceptable?
08:32First of all,
08:34Imran Khan's
08:36step in Pakistan
08:38is very good.
08:40What is the reason for that?
08:42What was happening
08:44that people outside
08:46of Pakistan
08:48and Pakistan's army
08:50are fighting each other?
08:52We cannot afford that.
08:54Nationalists like us
08:56worry that this should
08:58never happen.
09:00Pakistan's army and
09:02Pakistan's people should
09:04be on the same page.
09:06Imran Khan's statement
09:08is a big leap forward
09:10towards that achievement.
09:12There is a massive trust deficit.
09:14Two or three meetings
09:16can resolve the issue.
09:18Do you think so?
09:20Yes.
09:22Mukhtadara's stance
09:24is to retract
09:26the apology.
09:28There is a long list
09:30of apologies.
09:32Imran Khan is
09:34Pakistan's
09:36top leader.
09:38There is no reason
09:40to humiliate him.
09:42There were some people
09:44in Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf
09:46who were close to Imran Khan
09:48and the establishment.
09:50You were one of those people.
09:52Does Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf
09:54have a person
09:56who is not
09:58capable of talking
10:00at this time?
10:02What do you know?
10:04What do I know?
10:06You took Rahul Hassan's name.
10:08He is in jail at this time.
10:10How can you say
10:12that there is no person?
10:14There must be someone.
10:16I don't know.
10:18There must be someone.
10:20Imran Khan's statements
10:22from jail
10:24and the current situation
10:26of the country
10:28must have a person.
10:30This is a generic answer.
10:32You are one of those people
10:34who take names.
10:36Do you know Umar Ayub?
10:38We will see.
10:40If he is alive, we will know.
10:42If he is alive,
10:44it means that you are
10:46saying that there is a possibility
10:48of a conversation.
10:50According to my information,
10:52there is no possibility
10:54of a conversation.
10:56We don't know.
10:58We don't have information.
11:00You were the information minister
11:02and you don't have information.
11:04We are free.
11:06You were free
11:08and now you are back
11:10in politics.
11:12When are you going back to PTI?
11:14The people who were against you
11:16are now on your side.
11:18PTI is not an issue.
11:20If I had left PTI,
11:22I wouldn't have had a problem.
11:24I would have fought the elections.
11:26I am a minister.
11:28I didn't leave PTI.
11:30You are with Imran Khan
11:32even if he doesn't give you an office.
11:34You are with him for a cause.
11:36If you had to take an office,
11:38I wouldn't have needed
11:40Form 47.
11:42I would have become a minister.
11:44I don't have a problem with an office.
11:46It is important that Imran Khan
11:48should win because
11:50it means that the people of Pakistan
11:52will win.
11:54People like Zardari Shahbaz Sharif
11:56have been ruling Pakistan since
11:58they were born.
12:00In Pakistan,
12:02there are 1.5 crore new voters
12:04who are 18 years old.
12:06These people don't resonate
12:08with them.
12:10Does Pakistan's politics
12:12need to be pushed forward
12:14or should we push it back?
12:16The protest is being pushed
12:18by the Islamic Community.
12:20They are saying that we can
12:22go from Liaquat Bagh to D-Chowk
12:24if the government doesn't listen to us.
12:26You have appreciated that protest.
12:28The people of Pakistan
12:30were protesting in front
12:32of Karachi Electric.
12:34Where is Tariq-e-Insaf in Pakistan?
12:36Will they keep waiting for the NOC?
12:38They wasted the time
12:40that Tariq-e-Insaf had
12:42to protest.
12:44Tariq-e-Insaf was supposed to
12:46protest on 9th February
12:48when their result was being stolen.
12:50At that time, they were sitting
12:52in their homes and
12:54were not able to protect the mandate.
12:56Now, there is no atmosphere.
12:58Asad Qaisar has also said
13:00that with the Islamic Community,
13:02GDA and Fazlur Rehman
13:04and in my opinion,
13:06in September
13:08when the budget will be
13:10fully implemented,
13:12that will be the time
13:14for Tariq-e-Insaf to protest again.
13:16Right now, they are protesting
13:18and 25 people are arrested
13:20and 20 people go to jail.
13:22What is the point of such protests?
13:24Is it an excuse not to get the NOC?
13:26People are not coming out.
13:28In politics, timing is everything.
13:30Obviously, no one has
13:32as much street power as Tariq-e-Insaf.
13:34No party can claim as much
13:36support as Tariq-e-Insaf.
13:38But in Punjab,
13:40people will come out
13:42and it will have an effect.
13:44People will come out
13:46when the timing matches.
13:48But there is a big difference
13:50between street power and
13:52vote bank.
13:54As you know,
13:56Tariq-e-Insaf is the biggest movement
13:58in Punjab.
14:00It is clear that
14:02Tariq-e-Insaf does not have
14:04as much street power as Tariq-e-Insaf.
14:06But the atmosphere
14:08is not there.
14:10I think it will be there
14:12from September onwards.
14:14In the meantime,
14:16you can make your alliance
14:18and then we will see
14:20in September.
14:22What do you want to say?
14:24The end game of this government
14:26has started.
14:28The way things have happened,
14:30they said that
14:32a forward block group will be formed.
14:34It did not happen in PTI.
14:36They said that the Supreme Court decision
14:38will not be implemented.
14:40Two-thirds of the decision has been
14:42implemented.
14:44After that, they said that
14:46tribunals will be changed.
14:48Tribunals are starting their work.
14:50All the efforts of the government
14:52have failed.
14:54The last effort is
14:56to implement a constitutional amendment
14:58and give extension to Faiz Issa.
15:00The president has called
15:02for a meeting on 30th July.
15:04The aim is to
15:06implement the decisions of the court.
15:08There is no vote.
15:10If you want to go and
15:12hit the head of the court,
15:14you can do that.
15:16In the end game,
15:18the court will play a role.
15:20The court has already played a role.
15:22What more can the court do?
15:24Asad Kaisar himself
15:26is saying that
15:28tribunals have already been implemented.
15:30What do you want from the court?
15:32You want the court to
15:34implement the decisions of the court
15:36which are not based on the phone.
15:38You want the court to decide
15:40according to the law.
15:42There is no demand from the court.
15:44You want the judges to be strong
15:46and decide according to the law.
15:48Everyone knows what happened
15:50in Form 45 and 47.
15:52When Tarang Jhangiri
15:54opened the case,
15:56you saw how the candidates
15:58from all three parties
16:00ran away.
16:02In such a situation,
16:04you have to take a decision
16:06based on merit.
16:08You have to manage the economy.
16:10You said that Arabs
16:12hate Imran Khan
16:14so much that
16:16billions of dollars
16:18will be spent.
16:20Then you said that
16:22China is against Imran Khan
16:24and will give us money.
16:26Then you said that
16:28the West is against him
16:30and will give us money.
16:32You need 8-10 billion dollars
16:34of hard cash
16:36if you want to run this country.
16:38People are saying that
16:40you should first bring political
16:42power into the country.
16:44You can't do that without Imran Khan.
16:46You have to run the country
16:48without Imran Khan's inclusion.
16:50If the government of Pakistan
16:52had taken all the decisions
16:54based on IPC,
16:56would it have been a solution?
16:58Do you think it was necessary
17:00to get to this point?
17:02This could have been different.
17:04We came out of the situation.
17:06Do you remember our best performance
17:08in Covid?
17:10For the previous government?
17:12No.
17:14They were saying that
17:16we reduced the price of oil
17:18and that's why we had a problem.
17:20We reduced the price of oil
17:22because we had a deal
17:24with President Putin
17:26to give us oil.
17:28We had a deal with
17:30Energy Minister Hamad Azhar.
17:32When you broke our government,
17:34all those things were over.
17:36The government has overflown
17:38and the economy is in shambles.
17:40Do you think the government
17:42will be able to find a solution
17:44in the next 5-6 months
17:46with all these issues?
17:48You don't have 5-6 months.
17:50You have to take $10 billion
17:52to spend this year.
17:54We can't see that coming.
17:56You can take it and burn it.
17:58Why don't we have 5-6 months?
18:00Explain this to me.
18:02We don't have money for 5-6 months.
18:04The other establishment
18:06has come to a standstill.
18:08You see,
18:10why is there a resolution
18:12from the representatives
18:14of Congress
18:16and the Labour Party
18:18in the UK?
18:20Because the diaspora
18:22has no problem with the army.
18:24They have been with the army
18:26all their lives.
18:28They have a problem
18:30that when you put Zardari
18:32and Shabaz Sharif in front of them,
18:34they are all scared.
18:36Imran Khan has
18:38unanimous influence
18:40over Pakistan.
18:42Imran Khan was conspiring
18:44against the US.
18:46He was conspiring against
18:48the American establishment.
18:50They are still in power.
18:52What will happen
18:54if Imran Khan comes
18:56or if there is a solution
18:58for them?
19:00There is an election going on
19:02Do you think the PTI has been
19:04manipulated?
19:06I don't think Trump is needed anymore.
19:08The diaspora has become so big
19:10that more than two-thirds
19:12of the members of the House
19:14of Representatives,
19:16Democrats and Republicans
19:18have voted for him.
19:20The entire Labour Party
19:22supports him.
19:24You have been very vocal
19:26about Rao Fasan.
19:28He has been arrested.
19:30I was in touch
19:32with him
19:34because of the conference.
19:36Rao Fasan is right
19:38that I have a problem
19:40with him.
19:42But for God's sake,
19:44he is not a traitor
19:46or a person who runs
19:48a digital movement.
19:50He is a professor
19:52and you are sending him
19:54to jail at the age of 70.
19:56I think this is very unfair.
19:58Let me tell you that
20:00power is like sand in your fist.
20:02The more you
20:04press the fist,
20:06the faster the power
20:08comes out of your hand.
20:10You don't have to increase
20:12the power of the government.
20:14You have to increase
20:16the power of the government.
20:18Thank you very much for joining
20:20me in the program.
20:22It was a pleasure having you.
20:24We will talk about politics
20:26after the break.
20:56How can a person
20:58get relief
21:00from these protests
21:02and questions
21:04and pressure
21:06from the government?
21:08What we are saying
21:10is very reasonable
21:12and the government
21:14should do it.
21:16If the government
21:18understands it,
21:20it will do it.
21:22We are not doing anything
21:24to stop giving money to the
21:26IPPs.
21:28If you stop giving money to the
21:30IPPs, they will stop giving you
21:32electricity.
21:34We are not saying that.
21:36We are saying that
21:38if you stop taking
21:40excessive taxes
21:42like 18% sales tax,
21:447.5% advance income tax,
21:46further tax,
21:48etc.,
21:50then the bill will
21:52cost you
21:54more than 10 billion rupees
21:56per month.
21:58If you do this for 4 months,
22:00it will cost you 40 billion rupees.
22:02If the government can't do this
22:04and can't bear the
22:06suffering of the people,
22:08then that's just wrong.
22:10No IMF will object to this.
22:12You can reduce your taxes
22:14and other expenses.
22:16There is a government
22:18that has already been
22:20under pressure.
22:22Political instability
22:24was a big challenge.
22:26Why is the government
22:28taking such steps?
22:30Does it make sense to you
22:32that a government
22:34that is already
22:36under pressure,
22:38is already taking
22:40steps to increase
22:42the cost of
22:44the country,
22:46when there are
22:48debt service payments?
22:50If the government
22:52would have increased
22:54the cost by 20%,
22:56it would have
22:58gotten room.
23:00Last year,
23:02you spent 700 billion rupees
23:04on the Ph.D.P.
23:06First you said
23:08you would spend
23:101400 billion rupees.
23:12Then you said
23:14you would spend
23:162500 billion rupees.
23:18Now you have
23:204500 billion rupees.
23:22You can spend this
23:24on electricity.
23:26You can reduce
23:28public taxes.
23:30You can pay this
23:32towards capacity cost.
23:34But the government
23:36doesn't realize
23:38how difficult
23:40the middle class is.
23:42They have not understood
23:44how difficult it is.
23:46They have not reformed anything.
23:48They have so much support.
23:50They have the support of
23:52SIFC.
23:54They can do something.
23:56But they don't want to
23:58do anything.
24:00They don't want to
24:02reduce MNS funds.
24:04They don't want to
24:06reduce MPS funds.
24:08They don't want to
24:10reduce show projects.
24:12I remember the train
24:14that you referred
24:16when you were
24:18protesting about electricity.
24:20If you look at the political
24:22scenario,
24:24Pakistan will be back
24:26in power in December
24:28according to Tariq-e-Insaf.
24:30Imran Khan will be
24:32Prime Minister.
24:34Do you think
24:36this is possible
24:38due to the government's
24:40policies?
24:42December is very
24:44far away.
24:46Imran Khan
24:48has been
24:50calling the army chief
24:52by his sister.
24:54It is very authentic
24:56that the army should
24:58be neutral.
25:00You know that
25:02they have given
25:04neutrals to animals.
25:06Their social media
25:08is full of
25:10things like
25:12that they won't
25:14even leave them in their graves.
25:16There is a campaign
25:18going on against
25:20the army,
25:22not just the chief,
25:24but the entire army.
25:26Everyone knows
25:28that if Imran Khan
25:30gets a signal,
25:32it will be over.
25:34Now Imran Khan
25:36is neither your enemy
25:38nor the enemy of the country.
25:40He is the opponent.
25:42I don't think
25:44Imran Khan should
25:46talk about this.
25:48If he admits
25:50that he called
25:52a peaceful protest
25:54on 9th May,
25:56then let's move away
25:58from the false crack operation.
26:00These things
26:02are better.
26:04If Imran Khan
26:06gets a signal,
26:08then the government
26:10and the forces should
26:12also get a signal.
26:14I don't think
26:16the government
26:18will get a signal.
26:20But if the government
26:22gets a signal,
26:24will Imran Khan
26:26or Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf
26:28still be ready
26:30to talk to the government?
26:32The truth is
26:34that the government
26:36doesn't have the mandate
26:38that Muslim League had
26:40in 2013.
26:42But the thing is
26:44that the government
26:46and the army are on the same page.
26:48If you talk to the government,
26:50what do you expect?
26:52The Chief of Army Staff
26:54will come to Adiyala
26:56and talk to you?
26:58But again,
27:00I don't think
27:02Imran Khan is legitimate.
27:04Do you think
27:06if the people of Pakistan
27:08get the opportunity
27:10to become a third party
27:12and try to end
27:14the trust deficit,
27:16will they be ready
27:18to do that?
27:20Look,
27:22they all speak Kurdish.
27:24They don't need
27:26our mediation.
27:28Right now,
27:30we are not in the relevant
27:32politics.
27:34We are not in the parliament.
27:36The three, four, or five
27:38big parties of the parliament
27:40should sit together
27:42and talk.
27:44If the retired soldiers
27:46and the retired judges
27:48represent the army,
27:50they should come and
27:52sit down and talk.
27:54There is nothing wrong
27:56if the leaders of the opposition
27:58can talk to each other
28:00on the National Security Forum.
28:02If we are ready to talk
28:04to India,
28:06the Israelis,
28:08the Palestinians,
28:10and the people of Hamas
28:12are ready to talk to the Israelis,
28:14then there is nothing wrong
28:16if Imran Khan,
28:18the Muslim League,
28:20and the People's Party
28:22sit together.
28:24You have been a key
28:26part of PMLN's politics for a long time.
28:28Do you see this happening?
28:30Look, there have been
28:32a lot of changes in PMLN's politics.
28:34The PMLN's politics
28:36in the past was very
28:38moderate. After 2008,
28:40there was a moral clarity
28:42in PMLN's politics
28:44that we will do what is good for Pakistan.
28:46We were politicians,
28:48but there was always a larger
28:50national interest.
28:52It was not for the sake of power.
28:54Now, in the politics of PMLN,
28:56power has become for the sake of power.
28:58The Muslim League, PTI,
29:00and PMLN in Pakistan
29:02are only for power.
29:04If we talk about the electricity bill,
29:06then we are talking about
29:08Mifta Ismail, Shahid Abbasi,
29:10and Hafiz Naeem.
29:12If we talk about inflation,
29:14then we are talking about Mifta Ismail,
29:16Shahid Abbasi,
29:18and Hafiz Naeem.
29:20We have not even talked about
29:22the taxes on the salary class,
29:24the taxes on the dugars,
29:26the problems in the PHDP.
29:28We have only talked about this.
29:30We think that we should
29:32also talk about public interest.
29:34We will talk about public interest
29:36only when their problems
29:38are sorted out.
29:40You have just mentioned
29:42the public interest.
29:44Are you talking about
29:46the people of Pakistan
29:48or the people of Pakistan?
29:50Is there any possibility
29:52that the Jamaat-e-Islami
29:54and the people of Pakistan
29:56will stand together for public interest
29:58in the coming days?
30:00If we stand together
30:02with the Muslim League,
30:04then we will stand together
30:06with the People's Party,
30:08MQM, and PTI.
30:10If you are talking about
30:12public interest,
30:14then we are with you.
30:16I have friends in all parties.
30:18Hafiz Naeem is also a very good man.
30:20All the leaders,
30:22Mian Sahiban, Gutto Sahiban,
30:24Imran Khan, are all good people.
30:26I am sure of this.
30:28Everyone wants Pakistan to progress.
30:30But we should understand
30:32that if we have one goal,
30:34even if we have different opinions,
30:36we have one goal.
30:38Right now, I do not have power.
30:40Power is with Shabaz Sharif
30:42and Imran Khan has support.
30:44We have to stand together
30:46and talk.
30:48It is not possible
30:50that you do not talk
30:52and do not find a solution.
30:54If the solution is to have elections
30:56in a year or two,
30:58then let's have elections.
31:00I think that Shabaz Sharif
31:02should leave the ministry
31:04and make another PTI leader
31:06and make a national government.
31:08The People's Party, MQM, PTI,
31:10and Muslim League should all
31:12sit together and make a national government.
31:14They are not ready to sit together.
31:16My sister, listen to me.
31:18You seriously listen to this.
31:20We never put
31:22the public interest ahead.
31:24We run the railway for the employees
31:26of the railway
31:28and for the bureaucrats of the government.
31:30They benefit from that.
31:32We do not benefit from the common man.
31:34The police of Pakistan
31:36either benefit from the government
31:38or from the police.
31:40The PIA, the Health Ministry,
31:42and the Education Ministry
31:44all benefit from the government.
31:46There is no public interest in Pakistan.
31:48If you bring the concept of public interest,
31:50then politics should be for the public interest
31:52and not for the interest of these rulers.
31:54If they do not sit together,
31:56then tell me that 78% of our children
31:58are 10 years old and cannot read two sentences.
32:00I have said this a thousand times.
32:02I completely agree with you on this point, Mr. Ismail.
32:04Democracy is of the people, by the people,
32:06and for the people.
32:08Let's take a short break.
32:10We will be back after the break.
32:12Mr. Gohar Ejaz will be with us
32:14to ask a lot of questions for Ashrafiya.
32:20Welcome back after the break.
32:22The issue of IPPs is a big issue
32:24and there are protests against it.
32:26The first person who raised his voice
32:28against it was Dr. Gohar Ejaz
32:30who is also a former federal minister.
32:32Dr. Ejaz, thank you very much
32:34for joining us in the show.
32:36You had quoted the data of NEPRA
32:38that there are four powerhouses in Pakistan
32:40which are earning 10 billion rupees
32:42without doing anything.
32:44It feels good to earn without doing anything.
32:46Now you have said that you are going
32:48to the Supreme Court against them.
32:50Will it be possible to go to the Supreme Court
32:52considering that it has sovereign guarantees
32:54and international jurisdictions.
32:56Will the Supreme Court be able
32:58to solve this issue?
33:00You have asked a very good question.
33:02I also wanted to ask this question
33:04because a lot of people want to know
33:06that I had tweeted yesterday
33:08that we are going to the Supreme Court.
33:10The Federation of Pakistan Chamber
33:12and our Economic Think Tank
33:14which I am representing
33:16Economic Policy Business Development
33:18Think Tank
33:20has structured it
33:22and we are asking the Supreme Court
33:24only one question
33:26with great responsibility.
33:28We are presenting the complete data
33:30to the Supreme Court
33:32and its draft is being prepared.
33:34I am asking this question in front of you
33:36that we want this data to be
33:38forensic audited.
33:40We are ready to pay the cost
33:42to the top three firms in the world
33:44and in the top three firms
33:46their PPAs,
33:48their contracts,
33:50their agreements
33:52and their performance of the last 20 years
33:54should be forensic audited.
33:56The forensic audit
33:58in 2020
34:00was also the same condition
34:02when the
34:04inquiry committee was sitting
34:06on the IPP contracts
34:08and at that time this forensic audit
34:10could not have been done.
34:12If this forensic audit would have been done
34:14at that time, then today
34:16the people of Pakistan
34:18would not have to face this problem.
34:20Today I am only demanding
34:22that the forensic audit report
34:24should be presented
34:26to the Supreme Court
34:28so that we can see
34:30how faithfully they fulfilled
34:32the agreements.
34:34We are hiring the best lawyers
34:36in the country
34:38to represent the nation of Pakistan.
34:40We do not have any
34:42opportunity to make a mistake
34:44or to challenge
34:46our sovereign guarantees
34:48in any international court.
34:50We have already done this.
34:52But doctor,
34:54you must have heard
34:56what the finance minister said today.
34:58He said that if we do
35:00this kind of work,
35:02then we have to go ahead
35:04and bring investments.
35:06In my program yesterday,
35:08Mr. Rana Ahsan was saying
35:10that there are a lot of
35:12investment opportunities
35:14but if the investor is not coming
35:16then we are stuck.
35:18We cannot take the burden
35:20of the investors.
35:50They are not being executed.
35:52They did not have fuel audits.
35:54They did not have capacity audits.
35:56They did not have any other
35:58performance audits.
36:00And continuously NEPRA
36:02has been asking them
36:04to do audits for the last 14 years.
36:06They give stay orders.
36:08Today we are saying
36:10that they should not be
36:12touched in any way.
36:14If these 40 investors
36:16leave our country,
36:18then what will happen?
36:20All of them are Pakistani.
36:22All of them are our friends.
36:24All of them are businessmen.
36:26When the committee
36:28was opened in 2020,
36:30they only said that
36:32do not do forensic audits
36:34and settle with us.
36:36And at that time,
36:38they had put a plant
36:40at a currency of Rs. 148
36:42which they had planted
36:44at Rs. 60.
36:46If the forensic audit
36:48would have been done on that day,
36:50it will be done today.
36:52After the forensic audit,
36:54we will know whether
36:56there are agreements or not.
36:58The second step is after that.
37:00Let this matter be investigated.
37:02I am saying that the capacity
37:04of the community,
37:06the capacity of the industry,
37:08I am talking about the capacity
37:10of the industry first.
37:12The industry cannot operate
37:14at a capacity of Rs. 1.7 trillion.
37:16We are giving them the exact amount.
37:18They are operating at a capacity
37:20of 36%.
37:22Their capacity payments are
37:24Rs. 1.0506 trillion.
37:26And this is Rs. 26.82
37:28per unit.
37:30This should be Rs. 8.
37:32Rs. 10 is the fuel
37:34of Rs. 60.
37:36This is our fuel.
37:38This is the average fuel
37:40consumed in June.
37:42This is our fuel.
37:44This is our fuel.
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