'Mixed legacy': Did Rupert Murdoch 'modernise journalism' or did he 'debase' the profession?

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00:00 More on this story, we can bring in Simon Potter, professor of modern history at the

00:04 University of Bristol.

00:06 Good afternoon.

00:07 Thank you very much for joining us here on France 24.

00:09 Now, Australia's former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull says Rupert Murdoch has left behind

00:14 a legacy of division, adding he's done enormous damage to the democratic world.

00:19 Is that a fair assessment?

00:22 I think Rupert Murdoch has certainly been a very polarizing figure in Australia, in

00:28 Britain and the US over many decades.

00:32 A lot of the response to his decision to step down reflects that polarizing reputation.

00:41 So for many people, he is somebody who's debased journalism, who has done terrible damage to

00:46 the profession of journalism and to politics.

00:49 To others, he's an extremely successful entrepreneur who's modernized journalism in many different

00:56 countries and who has in some ways sustained print journalism and kept it alive and relevant

01:04 for the last 10 years.

01:05 So he's got a very mixed legacy, I would say.

01:08 I understand some may think he's a visionary, but under his watch, some of the publications

01:15 use dubious methods to get stories.

01:20 So Murdoch has, ever since the 1960s really, been accused of using sensationalism, sex,

01:29 journalistically dubious ethical practices in the UK, the whole scandal over phone hacking,

01:34 which your report mentioned, leading to the closing down of the News of the World, which

01:39 was one of the most popular and important papers, popular papers in Britain.

01:45 These methods have been widely attacked, and the legal settlement in the US, I think, again,

01:51 reflects quite how wrong journalists under Murdoch's leadership have got it in some of

01:57 those key cases.

02:00 Let's talk about one of the things Rupert Murdoch says he wanted to do, which is taking

02:06 on the establishment.

02:07 But isn't that convenient for somebody who's a billionaire to say they want to do?

02:12 Certainly.

02:14 So in Britain, the editor of another newspaper, The Telegraph, a man called Max Hastings,

02:20 he once wrote that effectively, newspaper proprietors, they want to make money, and

02:25 they want to make the world safe for people with money.

02:28 And any sense that the Murdoch empire has stood for the little man or has been anti-establishment,

02:37 that might be there in its rhetoric.

02:39 But I think in reality, many people feel that in its treatment of trade unions in Britain,

02:45 in the way that it has tried to make money out of the misfortune of individuals, it doesn't

02:50 stand on the side of the little man.

02:52 And its record in US politics, I think, has reflected that as well.

02:57 How is it possible that Rupert Murdoch, under his whole vast umbrella of media organizations,

03:05 which he looked after, there is Fox News, there are the Sun, you know, media outlets

03:11 that push conspiracy theories, etc., what have you.

03:16 But at the same time, you also have reputable organizations like The Wall Street Journal.

03:23 So it's a very complex business empire.

03:27 Some of the commercial decisions that Murdoch has made have been very good.

03:32 Some of them have been very bad.

03:34 It's very hard to see what the short term business decisions are between some of the

03:42 strategies that it adopts.

03:44 But in the long term, some of its elite publications have generated a profit and are still quite

03:50 valuable today, as is a newspaper like The Sun.

03:53 So I think in business terms, we'd want to see that as a portfolio of investments.

03:58 But in terms of politics, I think all these different outlets, which generally people

04:03 don't read, you know, they don't read The Sun and The Times.

04:08 I want to jump in there because Rupert Murdoch is 92 years old.

04:11 He sort of signaled he wants, he will be around because he's chairman emeritus.

04:16 His son is 52 years old.

04:19 That's a significant age difference.

04:21 Will the son be more centrist than his father?

04:26 It's hard to tell because I think Lachlan has been marginalized for some years before

04:30 being brought back into the inner circle.

04:33 As a result, a lot of pundits are speculating on his politics.

04:36 They assume that he's to the right as well, particularly in US and Australian politics.

04:43 The power that he will have, whether he will have that same power as an individual dominating

04:49 the organization that Rupert Murdoch has, again, that's up for question.

04:53 Will he rather be part of a team that is running the empire on very different lines?

04:59 I think what's very clear is Rupert Murdoch was perhaps the last great newspaper magnate.

05:05 His life, his love was newspapers.

05:08 Lachlan is a different generation.

05:10 And whether newspapers will be so important to the Murdoch media empire going forward

05:14 is a big question.

05:16 In the digital age, Simon Potter, we're going to have to leave it at that.

05:19 Thank you very much for joining us on the program today.

05:21 Thank you.

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