🌍 Is it really green—or just good PR? In Part 2 of our Greenwashing Series, Tangelic Talks hosts Victoria Cornelio and Jensen Cummings dive deeper into how corporations use PR spin, guilt, and surface-level sustainability to maintain power while appearing climate-conscious.
This episode exposes:
– The psychology of greenwashing and public trust
– Green “solutions” like tote bags and plastic recycling myths
– FIFA’s carbon neutral claims vs. Coldplay’s real accountability
– Coca-Cola & Nestlé’s green PR tactics
– Why blame-shifting to consumers is a systemic issue
– And why asking better questions is a form of climate resistance
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–00:36 Start and Intro
00:36–01:34 Greenwashing, PR Strategy, and Public Trust
01:35–02:57 What is Greenwashing? Mismatched Messaging vs. Real Action
02:58–05:17 How PR Protects Polluters: Reframing Image Over Integrity
05:18–08:38 The Tote Bag Dilemma: Fabricated Needs vs. Real Impact
08:39–11:23 Carbon Neutral Claims: FIFA vs. Coldplay – A Case of Green Hype
11:24–14:15 Deceptive Marketing: How False Claims Damage Public Trust
14:16–17:06 Surface-Level Sustainability: Coca-Cola’s Bottle Collection Example
17:07–20:29 Behavior vs. Branding: The Gap Between Campaigns and Change
21:27–24:44 Recycling is a Lie? The Hidden Truth About Plastic Waste
30:00–33:11 Buy Local, Think Global: The Easiest Way to Reduce Emissions
33:11–35:02 Closing and End
📣 This is Part 2 — Watch Part 1 here
🗨️ Join the Movement: Have YOU fallen for corporate greenwashing? Comment with your story!
🔔 Subscribe for expert takes on energy, equity, and climate justice.
🔖 #GreenwashingExposed #PRVsReality #EcoPRTactics #SustainableTruth #ClimateJustice #AskBetterQuestions #ConsumerAwareness #StopGreenwashing #BrandTransparency #CorporateGreenwash #ToteBagMyth #CarbonNeutralHype #LocalOverLabels #RecyclingMyth #GreenMarketingLies #EnvironmentalAccountability #SustainabilityScam #TangelicTalks #ThinkBeyondTheLabel
This episode exposes:
– The psychology of greenwashing and public trust
– Green “solutions” like tote bags and plastic recycling myths
– FIFA’s carbon neutral claims vs. Coldplay’s real accountability
– Coca-Cola & Nestlé’s green PR tactics
– Why blame-shifting to consumers is a systemic issue
– And why asking better questions is a form of climate resistance
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–00:36 Start and Intro
00:36–01:34 Greenwashing, PR Strategy, and Public Trust
01:35–02:57 What is Greenwashing? Mismatched Messaging vs. Real Action
02:58–05:17 How PR Protects Polluters: Reframing Image Over Integrity
05:18–08:38 The Tote Bag Dilemma: Fabricated Needs vs. Real Impact
08:39–11:23 Carbon Neutral Claims: FIFA vs. Coldplay – A Case of Green Hype
11:24–14:15 Deceptive Marketing: How False Claims Damage Public Trust
14:16–17:06 Surface-Level Sustainability: Coca-Cola’s Bottle Collection Example
17:07–20:29 Behavior vs. Branding: The Gap Between Campaigns and Change
21:27–24:44 Recycling is a Lie? The Hidden Truth About Plastic Waste
30:00–33:11 Buy Local, Think Global: The Easiest Way to Reduce Emissions
33:11–35:02 Closing and End
📣 This is Part 2 — Watch Part 1 here
🗨️ Join the Movement: Have YOU fallen for corporate greenwashing? Comment with your story!
🔔 Subscribe for expert takes on energy, equity, and climate justice.
🔖 #GreenwashingExposed #PRVsReality #EcoPRTactics #SustainableTruth #ClimateJustice #AskBetterQuestions #ConsumerAwareness #StopGreenwashing #BrandTransparency #CorporateGreenwash #ToteBagMyth #CarbonNeutralHype #LocalOverLabels #RecyclingMyth #GreenMarketingLies #EnvironmentalAccountability #SustainabilityScam #TangelicTalks #ThinkBeyondTheLabel
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Thirdly, creating a warm and engaging
00:02mechanism for your podcast can civically tell me
00:05as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit
00:08with anime-like raw music.
00:10Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic,
00:14where we dive into the vibrant world of clean energy,
00:17development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.
00:20We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions,
00:24and groundbreaking innovations from the continent
00:26making waves in the global community.
00:28Tune in and join the conversation
00:30toward a brighter, greener future.
00:32Let's get started.
00:33Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast
00:39at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment
00:42with your co-host Victoria Cornelio and myself,
00:45Jensen Cummings.
00:46This is part two of our episode exploring greenwashing.
00:51Episode one, we talked about some of the language,
00:53some of the imagery that companies potentially
00:56use to mask some of what their intention might be
01:01and being able to capitalize on some of this green movement.
01:05Today, we're going to talk a little bit more PR.
01:07We're going to talk about some of the strategy levels, some
01:09of the implementation of these things.
01:11And they're all interwoven, but we want to kind of dissect them
01:14and, again, give you the understanding,
01:16help you to be able to ask more questions.
01:18And for us, selfishly, as we've been exploring our own views
01:25through this podcast and our ability to understand
01:27the landscape that we're in for Tangelic Talks,
01:30we want to continue to understand this better
01:32for Victoria and myself.
01:34So today, we're going to be talking green for show,
01:36what they don't want you to ask.
01:38Victoria, let's start off by giving people again.
01:42We did this in part one. I want to do it again, though.
01:44Let's frame this up a little bit.
01:46When I say greenwashing, what the heck does that actually mean?
01:49So, again, I'll use the same definition we used last time.
01:52It's the intersection of two firm behaviors,
01:55poor environmental performance and positive communication
01:59about environmental performance.
02:00That is the academic version that most people agree with.
02:03The easiest way to explain it is the messaging
02:06does not match the action.
02:08And in this case, it's within the green sector
02:11and the environmental side of things,
02:13sustainability, whatever you want to call it.
02:16The company is saying that they're doing a thing
02:18and their actions don't reflect that thing.
02:20Yep. Thank you for that.
02:21And so we're going to be talking again strategic level,
02:24PR, deflecting responsibility,
02:27shifting blame and responsibility.
02:30Some of these things, this sleight of hand
02:32that seems to happen quite often in the corporate space,
02:36a PR space when we kind of talk about this.
02:39So when I say PR,
02:40when we think about PR from this perspective,
02:42you mentioned last time kind of marketing
02:45and your role and position in marketing
02:47and how we think about messaging and language
02:50and the potential manipulations
02:51that happen inherently in that.
02:54Now we're shifting a little bit more to PR
02:56and some of the strategy level.
02:57Frame that part up for us.
02:59When we think about PR, what do we need to pay attention to?
03:02So PR, a lot of what you're doing is public relations.
03:05Basically, that's what PR stands for.
03:07The difference between PR and marketing
03:09is the public relations side is to maintain an image.
03:12So a company is trying to maintain their image
03:15and their status within our public consciousness
03:18in a certain way, right?
03:20I'm a big believer that if you need to call a PR manager,
03:22something's gone wrong.
03:24Because most times if you've done something,
03:26you don't really have to explain it.
03:28If it's like solid and your marketing's good
03:30and everything's come through,
03:32if people are starting to call you out and ask questions,
03:35that's where the PR manager comes in
03:36and tries to like, wait, no, that's not what we meant.
03:39You're getting it wrong.
03:40Let's work on that.
03:42I think we've seen that a lot,
03:44almost dramatized in Hollywood too,
03:46where they have to call in this fixer
03:49who's coming in.
03:50And I think of the show Scandal with Kerry Washington,
03:53always trying to see something,
03:55always trying to reposition the image,
04:00reposition your competition, reposition the narrative.
04:04We spend so much time getting stuck in that mire
04:08of what is truth and what is not.
04:11It's even harder now.
04:12It's so much more difficult now
04:14to weed through all of the white noise,
04:18all of the banter that's happening.
04:21And so it's really tough for people.
04:23So again, for the blog post that's connected to this,
04:27go to tangeliclife.org,
04:29check out the blog post connected to episode one, part one,
04:33and this part two as well,
04:35because Victoria's pulling some different resources,
04:37some different entities that can help you navigate this
04:41from a specific standpoint of some company
04:45that you're looking into or some initiative
04:46or some program that you're looking into
04:48or the broader context of what greenwashing is happening
04:51and what to look out for.
04:53So we'll make sure you have some of that as well.
04:55All right, any other high level thinking
04:57before we get into some of the details?
04:58I think I just want people to remember,
05:00and this is just something to do
05:02even outside of the sustainability space,
05:04think about who benefits from the marketing,
05:07the ads that you're looking at, right?
05:10If something is marketed to you
05:12or the public image representative is saying
05:16that this is X, Y, or Z,
05:18remember that if it's not something that you need,
05:22a need is being created for you,
05:24for you to think that you need this, okay?
05:26So a really good example of this is plastic bags.
05:30Plastic bags, no one needs plastic bags, is the messaging.
05:35But now we're asking people to always carry tote bags
05:38and alternative ways of carrying things.
05:40And if they don't, now we charge them for plastic bags.
05:44So a need has been created for plastic bags
05:47that we've always had, right?
05:49We've always had a need for plastic bags
05:51to carry our things, but now it's a need
05:55that has never been addressed before, which costs money.
05:59Is there potentially then on the flip side,
06:02just to try and play devil's advocate for a second,
06:04are now we creating a need for the totes
06:06and creating another industry
06:08that is now predatory in its practice
06:11of creating guilt or doubt or expectation in the market
06:15to now have, we're shifting the responsibility
06:18and we're shifting the economics
06:20where now those companies potentially are better,
06:23but they still have a footprint.
06:25They're still creating an impact.
06:27How do we?
06:28Yeah, but similar to what we talked about last time,
06:31a little goes a lot.
06:33It's better to do little than to do nothing,
06:35but little is tiring.
06:37So if you go to the shops because you need some milk
06:41and some quick things, I've seen a lot of people
06:44walk out of the shop juggling everything in their hands
06:47because they are indignated by the fact
06:49that they have to pay for a plastic bag.
06:51Oh, yeah, that's definitely not me.
06:55I work really hard to remember the bags
06:57and then I kick myself when I have nine bags in the car
07:01and forget them.
07:03And then I really try and have them overstuff
07:05that plastic bag and I feel the guilt and all that.
07:08I want everyone to know that this is difficult.
07:10There are no easy answers here.
07:13There is no one size fits all solution.
07:16There's you navigating your life and your world,
07:20creating the expectations that you have for yourself
07:23and the way that you spend your time,
07:25the way that you spend your money.
07:26These things matter and especially in a capitalist society,
07:30the decisions that you make may not seem that large,
07:33but enough people make those decisions.
07:35That's a major impact.
07:36The market does respond to these types of things
07:38and plastic bags is specifically one.
07:41What's strange sometimes with some of these
07:42is how cultural or regional they become as well.
07:45So having traveled around the country,
07:47I see certain places where it's just a cultural expectation
07:51that you bring your own bags,
07:53that plastic bags aren't even available.
07:55And other places, when you bring a tote
07:59and don't use the plastic bag,
08:01they look at you kind of funny.
08:03So this is the reality of some of this as well.
08:06These are difficult decisions to make,
08:08especially if that decision potentially pushes against
08:11the cultural identity of where you might live
08:13and the socioeconomic or macroeconomic impacts
08:17that plastic bags versus totes have.
08:20So anyway.
08:22That's what I mean.
08:23The need for a tote is to an extent fabricated
08:28because there's a business now in tote bags,
08:31but it's also good for the planet.
08:33So again, this is why it's hard to separate these things
08:37because sometimes it's just something
08:40is being sold to us as a need,
08:42but it also helps the planet.
08:46So a lot of smoke and mirrors here.
08:48I think that's what we're gonna get to
08:49in just helping us understand
08:52that we don't get triggered one direction or the other.
08:55We don't turn off and say, that's not for me at all.
08:57And we also don't just buy in hook, line and sinker.
09:00We need to have some responsibility.
09:02We're going to tell you here on this show
09:04that we as individuals and as communities
09:08and as consumers need to take some responsibility.
09:10We also are gonna push back against companies
09:13who are shifting all the responsibility
09:16onto consumers as well.
09:17And that's a thin line,
09:18but I think it's one we need to figure out how to walk.
09:20So some distracting initiatives.
09:22I see a lot of this where there's big headlines over here
09:25and here's what's really happening down here.
09:28All right, FIFA had a carbon neutral
09:31talking about their last World Cup.
09:34The amount of overall emissions,
09:37the amount of overall impact
09:40that something like the World Cup has is massive.
09:43And they got in some trouble
09:46for just the overall impact that it has.
09:49They kind of leave cities sometimes kind of in ruin,
09:53and there's a lot of economic impacts that happened there.
09:57They had this initiative for carbon neutral,
09:59which again felt very bait and switch.
10:02It was a big talking point
10:04and they put themselves on a pedestal.
10:06That's part of the problem.
10:08They put themselves on a pedestal
10:09and the reality is the impacts were almost negligible.
10:13Do we applaud the effort
10:15or do we look at the reality of the impact?
10:17How big you were making it seem to the impact
10:20did not line up.
10:22How do we reconcile that, Victoria?
10:25I think the best example I can give
10:27of something that is so massive like FIFA is Coldplay.
10:32When Coldplay go on tour,
10:34they actually do carbon neutral shows
10:39and they have actual frameworks.
10:42You can sign up just like you can sign up
10:43to be like a volunteer at the event.
10:47You can sign up to power the event
10:50and they have these huge bicycles all around the event,
10:53keeping it powered up, helping out.
10:55They have their own stuff going on.
10:57They don't use those wristbands that you just throw off.
11:00You can't take them with you.
11:01You recycle them as soon as you finish.
11:03There's so many things in place
11:06and even in that sense,
11:07there is still something to be said that it could be better
11:11but no one is doing it to the level that they are even.
11:14So we can't ask them to do any better.
11:16They're doing amazing compared to everything else.
11:19You know what I mean?
11:20I think with FIFA, they wanted this to be a thing.
11:24They wanted to market it this way.
11:25They wanted to get some good graces
11:28and the framework just wasn't there.
11:31It just wasn't happening.
11:33But you have to toot your own horn
11:36because you are banking on people not checking the real data
11:40you're banking on people not asking questions.
11:42Football fans, as a fan myself of many sports,
11:46when I'm in the pit,
11:48I am not thinking about carbon emissions.
11:51I'm thinking about my team and that's about it.
11:55Yeah, ferociously so.
11:58When I think about the comparison that you just made,
12:03Coldplay is not selling tickets
12:08and not promoting itself in that way.
12:11You're going to a Coldplay show,
12:13the by-product of which has a whole bunch
12:17of positive impacts that they are putting into a framework
12:23that for them is vital, it's sustainable, it's high impact.
12:29That's the difference to me.
12:31We talk about a little bit
12:33and it has a little bit plus impact.
12:36This balance, if you're listening,
12:38I'm doing a lot of hand gestures today
12:39and I apologize for listening,
12:41but just imagine that my hands are pretty equal here
12:44when we talk about how much we're tooting our own horn
12:47and how much impact we're actually having.
12:49That, I appreciate it.
12:50Even if net, net, it may not be as much
12:52as not having a concert
12:55because concerts have massive impacts.
12:58I understand that completely.
12:59We don't recycle well enough.
13:01Even when We Don't Waste shows up
13:02and has all these bins and people manning them,
13:04we still have a negative impact.
13:07But we're not sitting here saying,
13:08look at us changing the world.
13:10We're out on concert, we're doing these things.
13:12So I appreciate that
13:13versus we're carbon neutral.
13:16We're saying we're branding ourselves
13:19as this carbon neutral World Cup, not even close.
13:23And the issue with that is
13:24there's a 2021 European commission report,
13:27which I'll also link in the blog
13:28that found that 42% of green claims
13:31were exaggerated, false or deceptive.
13:34And that's not good, obviously,
13:37but it's not just that.
13:38It's not that someone gets caught lying
13:40is that the whole sector is now being pointed to
13:45and under scrutiny
13:46and there's steps towards genuine efforts.
13:49Companies are caught greenwashing
13:50and it undermines the trust, not just in the brand,
13:52but in sustainability claims in general.
13:55So then-
13:56Absolutely.
13:57Look at this one,
13:58look at this,
13:59this always comes down to this bad apple thing.
14:01On all sides of the political spectrum,
14:04on all sides of the social spectrum,
14:06we always find those one bad apples
14:08and then we say,
14:09okay, well that means everybody.
14:11And the reality is not that, right?
14:14When we're pointing out these different companies
14:15and these different programs or initiatives
14:18that fall short in our view
14:20and in other's view of being green,
14:24that's when you get yourself on the greenwashing side.
14:27That doesn't mean that the whole sector-
14:30Exactly.
14:31Is poised.
14:32Yeah.
14:33Is tainted.
14:34It's problematic though,
14:35because now we're asking somebody to make those decisions
14:39based on half information, faulty information,
14:42manipulative information.
14:44So again,
14:46I don't know if we're helping in this discussion
14:49to help people suss through this.
14:51Maybe our job is just to understand the gravity of it
14:55because these are big decisions
14:56and we're gonna talk about this more in this show
14:59as we go on,
15:00this idea of the individual impact,
15:02the community level impact,
15:04a state level, a regional level,
15:06a national level, an international level,
15:08all of these impacts are different
15:10and all the decisions that we make
15:12have impacts in different ways.
15:13So surface level sustainability
15:17is another kind of categorization.
15:20This is one that's a Coca-Cola bottle collection campaign
15:25was one that comes up a lot as an example here.
15:29Again, it's a little different
15:31than saying we're carbon neutral
15:33because this is programmatic more than its brand
15:36where that was with FIFA.
15:38The bottle collection thing is,
15:41look at us, we're recycling, look at us,
15:44we're doing these things
15:45that are going to mitigate some of the impact.
15:48So amazing.
15:49And it barely, barely scratches the surface
15:55for a product that is sustainably going out in the market
15:58but not having a sustainable impact.
16:00So talk about something like that,
16:01surface level sustainability.
16:03Where's your head go with that?
16:04The surface level stuff.
16:06I think I made the example last time about pride.
16:10If it shows up just like here and there,
16:14a pride marketing thing in June and that's it.
16:18And then it's not really embedded
16:20in the culture of the brand
16:22or the same thing with this surface level,
16:24Coca-Cola bottle collections and things like that.
16:27It's very loose.
16:29And that's where the PR comes in.
16:31We have to frame this really little thing that we're doing
16:34as the hardest thing we've ever done, right?
16:37We're such a big company.
16:38Do you know what it means for us to take all these bottles?
16:41Do you know what it means?
16:43Or this and that, you use stats, you use this.
16:45And it's like, amazing.
16:46Okay, you collected a million bottles a day.
16:49People drink so much Coca-Cola, awesome.
16:52And, and that's the issue.
16:54A lot of these surface level things don't have an and,
16:57they have the thing.
16:58So a good contra point to that
17:01is there was this movement of creating shapes
17:06and sculptures around different cities with bottles.
17:10So you would go somewhere and as you filled it up,
17:12you would create a whale, you would create a tree,
17:15you would do this and it would fill up
17:17and it was like an art installation.
17:19Again, turning art or turning trash into art
17:24is a visual way for you to see, wow,
17:27this city uses the same amount that it takes
17:31to draw a whale, to sculpt a whale.
17:35That's a lot of trash.
17:37They recycled it later,
17:39but the point of the installation was to show
17:41we rely on plastic to an extent
17:43that we just used this ton of plastic in a week.
17:48If the campaign was that, like a racing awareness campaign,
17:51I would have no issue
17:52with Coca-Cola's bottle collection campaign, you know?
17:56And that's the issue.
17:57The PR comes in to try to frame it as a bigger than thou.
18:00And really the thing you've done is raise awareness
18:03or do this.
18:04Not every campaign has to like have an action
18:07or a call to action.
18:08Sometimes you're just racing awareness.
18:09Like I think these episodes are really good
18:11to raise awareness.
18:12We're asking you to do some stuff, yeah?
18:14But mostly we just want you to be aware.
18:17But if we started saying, we have all the answers
18:20and this is how you can live sustainably
18:22and this is how this,
18:23then kind of falls apart, doesn't it?
18:25We'd have to call our own PR manager.
18:28Yeah.
18:29Yeah.
18:30It's again, that balance.
18:32For me, it comes down to the balance of the messaging
18:35and the action and the impact.
18:37And when that gets out of balance,
18:39that's when these questions come to play.
18:41I don't want Coca-Cola to stop.
18:43I don't want FIFA to stop doing what they're doing
18:45or any of these companies that we're highlighting here.
18:49I think the fact that they're making any effort at all
18:52should be celebrated.
18:53But this is golf clap, small little golf clap, okay?
18:57That's where it has to start.
19:00Exactly.
19:01Not all of a sudden, look at us changing the world.
19:04We have to have balance.
19:06Now, if some individual makes a small decision
19:12and starts recycling,
19:14starts a small amount of degrowth
19:17in their own personal life,
19:19makes one or two small decisions that have a small impact,
19:23well, then I want to go the other way.
19:24And I want to have a big rounding applause,
19:28standing ovation,
19:29because I want to over-celebrate
19:32what I know is difficult for an individual to do.
19:34And I want to under-celebrate.
19:37That's not a real thing.
19:38Under-celebrate when the corporations do it.
19:42And we're doing the opposite.
19:44We don't acknowledge the individual
19:46making a difficult life decision.
19:49And we over-celebrate a company
19:51making a minor, minor, minor tweak
19:56because of massive social and economic pressure.
19:58It's also, individuals don't have a PR manager, you know?
20:03So when I say that I recycle every Wednesday,
20:06to me, it's almost like a social activity,
20:09because I know what time my neighbors recycle.
20:11So we all recycle together.
20:12We have a chat,
20:13talk about how the week's been going, all this stuff.
20:17No one is like applauding that I've done that, you know?
20:22And I'm not framing it as this huge thing,
20:24like, oh my gosh, Victoria recycles,
20:26like she's a saint.
20:27No, but I think that's where,
20:29to your point about cultural and how things are perceived,
20:33in my community, if I miss a recycling day,
20:35it's more about like, oh, where's Victoria?
20:38You know, it's like when you sign up to a gym class,
20:40you're more likely to go if you're going with people.
20:42It's these things.
20:43If we create community around the things we're doing,
20:45it's not just one individual.
20:47You start kind of like moving that around.
20:49And I wish companies were a bit like that,
20:51where it's like these companies are coming together
20:53to do something.
20:54And then we can start applauding,
20:56because the power that three Coca-Colas have
21:00would be massive, you know?
21:02Or community initiatives coming down and being like,
21:05okay, if you collect this, if you collect that,
21:08then we'll do this.
21:09I don't know, just bringing people together.
21:11We need behavioral changes.
21:12It's not enough just having a really good marketing campaign,
21:16a PR message attached to it,
21:18and then clapping and just, you know, it's frustrating.
21:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:23There's some of that, where the responsibility lies,
21:27that something else that comes up is this green shifting,
21:30this shifting responsibility.
21:32Nestle was one of the companies that was doing some of this.
21:36And again, I understand when Nestle is saying
21:41people should go and recycle and recycle their products.
21:46I like that they're doing that.
21:49The problem then is when you start overshifting
21:53that responsibility and saying,
21:55well, look, we're telling people to go and recycle,
21:59but we talked about this with the pods in the last episode,
22:03where we're creating some more barriers for people,
22:08but then we're charging this green premium price
22:12because we're saying that people are supposed
22:15to recycle this product.
22:17And the reality is that we're not doing that
22:20at a scale enough.
22:22We're just creating a more expensive product
22:26and not actually seeing a shift in the behavior.
22:28So when you see some of that,
22:30it's hard for me to be as mad at Nestle
22:33as some of the other companies that we've talked about,
22:35because they are looking, and other companies are doing this,
22:38they're looking to promote a better behavior on the backend,
22:41but then they're charging you for the potential
22:44of that better behavior on the backend.
22:47How do we, again, reconcile that?
22:49I mean, okay, so recycling might not be the best option
22:52because recycling is a lie.
22:54I'm sorry to, you know, spoiler alert.
22:57So recycling is a lie in the sense,
22:59and again, you can find this on the blog,
23:01the Center for Climate Integrity found
23:03that everybody knows that.
23:06Companies have known for at least 30 years
23:09that recycling is not a viable thing to do.
23:12It's not feasibly a good plastic waste management solution.
23:16It's just not.
23:17However, the thing that recycling has given us
23:21is a behavioral shift.
23:23So plastics are not recyclable.
23:26That's just not a thing.
23:27Everything goes back into microplastics.
23:29That's why a lot of things
23:30are turning into different alternatives,
23:33like, you know, paper plates and glass bottles
23:36and that sort of thing.
23:37That's why you should have a refillable bottle
23:38instead of having plastics
23:40because we just can't manage plastic.
23:42That's why we have microplastics now,
23:43and that's why, you know, so on and so forth.
23:46However, the behavioral shift that comes from recycling,
23:50like recycling other things that are recyclable
23:53is a good thing.
23:55The problem is, now that we know recycling is a lie
23:58and is still being promoted,
24:00how do we marry these things together?
24:03I think that's where the issue comes in for a lot of people,
24:06where it's like, I'm trying to do the right thing,
24:08but then new information comes through
24:09and new things happen,
24:11and now I'm not sure where I stand with anything.
24:14Yeah, and then you're just likely to throw up your hands
24:16and throw in the towel and give up
24:18and go back to whatever behaviors you had before.
24:22Exactly.
24:23So we're still flooding the market with a product
24:25that has no feasible end to its cycle
24:29of degrading our environment.
24:32Exactly.
24:33And if you look, we recycle.
24:35And if you did it the other way,
24:36imagine that plastic bottles were like, I don't know,
24:40two pounds more than a glass bottle.
24:43You would buy the glass bottle
24:45of the material that is recyclable.
24:48Like you said, we're being sold a glass bottle
24:50as this expensive, luxurious thing,
24:53so we keep buying plastic.
24:56Why aren't we doing it the other way around?
24:57If we want behavioral shifts,
24:59we start from a point that the consumer
25:02can actually afford the behavior that we want them to do.
25:06Now we're getting to some supply and demand type economics
25:11of like, what's the supply demand?
25:12What's the cost?
25:13What are the...
25:15Yeah, this is a difficult, difficult topic.
25:20We appreciate anybody who's still listening to us
25:23during this episode because you can tell,
25:26Victoria and I want to have real conversations on this show.
25:31We want to struggle to understand these topics
25:34just like you are, just like even our experts are.
25:40Our job is to ask the questions,
25:42not just of our guests, but of ourselves, of each other.
25:44So yeah, I feel inspired to make better decisions
25:49after we talk about this,
25:51and I feel less equipped to make those decisions
25:53at the same time.
25:55And I realize that I know less than I thought.
25:58Asking questions is what smart people do.
26:00Yeah, I know less than I thought, usually.
26:02One more that comes up a little bit
26:06is kind of carbon offsets as covers,
26:10as carbon is such a buzzword now,
26:14and carbon credits and all these things
26:16have been cannibalized and turned predatory,
26:20and all these offsets,
26:21and basically I don't have to do anything positive.
26:23I can just buy credits from somebody else's doing positive.
26:27But then we create this scenario
26:30where people who are doing the right thing
26:32aren't in a financial position to own their own credits.
26:35They have to sell them,
26:36and now if they get themselves in trouble,
26:40they can't make decisions
26:42because they no longer have credit offsets
26:44they've been sold off, right?
26:46They're selling off their data, their rights,
26:48their practices.
26:50It's a very strange, strange process.
26:52My eye twitching.
26:54It's a whole different thing.
26:56Carbon credits could be a whole season for us.
27:00Airlines specifically, KLMs fly responsibly.
27:04Ryanair has come up a lot
27:06where we are having these campaigns around carbon offsets,
27:11but we're not actually lowering emissions.
27:15But the company is showing
27:17that they're lowering emissions
27:19through purchasing offsets.
27:24Where do we even start there?
27:26We got three minutes left in the show.
27:28Go ahead and just.
27:30Synopsis that whole.
27:31Well, no, that's just a perfect place
27:34to bring a PR manager.
27:35You bring them in and they say,
27:37hey, do you know how we're gonna frame this?
27:39We're gonna make it as this is a team effort.
27:42And our passengers and us
27:43are working on this together to lower emissions.
27:46So that's why our flights cost more
27:48because it's part of our initiative
27:50to plant trees over there
27:53and to help this community over here.
27:54And we have this project on solar energy
27:57and this and that.
27:58So that's how we're gonna market it
28:00and we're gonna sell you a round trip for 1,500 pounds
28:03from Paris to Amsterdam.
28:05Nothing crazy, you know.
28:07That's exactly where the PR manager comes in.
28:09And again, it's annoying.
28:11It's we, it's not us and you, it's we all of a sudden.
28:14We're in this together.
28:15So when someone calls us out,
28:17you should feel bad too,
28:19cause you flew with us.
28:21And that's the issue.
28:22You're trying to make it everybody's issue
28:24instead of just doing the thing.
28:26I've said this before.
28:27We've come up with a lot of fun, innovative tools
28:32that just keep getting used
28:34in a way that is just really disappointing.
28:36The idea of sustainable development
28:39was amazing until it began.
28:41And now it's like, wow, okay, that was a lie.
28:44Carbon credits was a great idea.
28:47And now it's like, oh, you know,
28:49we come up with so many tools
28:51and I think that's just a trap.
28:53We're getting faster and faster
28:54at ruining a good idea too.
28:57Like it used to take a while
28:59where those early adopter,
29:01those innovators then led to the early adopters.
29:03There really was ground swell.
29:06There was grassroots movement
29:08that created foundational change
29:11and potential systemic change and cultural change.
29:15And it took a decade or something for,
29:18you know, the corporate piranhas
29:20to be able to figure out how to manipulate that.
29:23It is happening instantaneously.
29:26Where now sometimes I see these initiatives come out.
29:29I'm like, I'm pretty sure that was from a think tank
29:31that already created the grassroots movement
29:35with the goal of making it a predatory practice from day one.
29:40How do you, you can't even keep up
29:44with the cycling of these types of programs and initiatives.
29:49So great, now we've given even less solutions
29:52for people in this.
29:53I think the one thing I encourage people is,
29:56and again, I'm gonna sound like a hippie,
29:58but just buy local, honestly.
30:01I know it's not something
30:03that is necessarily affordable to everybody.
30:06And again, that's a system issue,
30:08not the issue of your local bread maker
30:11and your local plant shop or anything like that.
30:13If you buy local, what tends to happen
30:16is you are already cutting the supply emissions
30:20that come from it, because it's grown in your area,
30:23besides having to be shipped from somewhere.
30:26If you're buying local, you can take your own stuff.
30:28You don't need all these bags.
30:29You don't need Amazon packages and cardboard
30:31and all this plastic and stuff.
30:33Like buying local is one of the best ways
30:35to reduce your own emissions
30:37and actually help your own economy.
30:40See it right there, helping like, it's just so good.
30:44It creates community as well.
30:46Honestly, if you can, and you are in a position
30:49where that is a thing,
30:51because I'm speaking from a European context
30:53where we walk everywhere, you guys have highways.
30:56We drive everywhere.
30:57Exactly, but if you can, as local as you can
31:02is the best option.
31:03And also, a lot of these small businesses
31:05don't have a PR team and a marketing team
31:08that is trying to greenwash and manipulate you.
31:10They're just trying to sell their stuff.
31:11Yeah, and sometimes they're even,
31:13let's say carrying products that are detrimental,
31:16but to your point, even starting to localize
31:19your purchasing can put you on a path
31:22to make more and more better decisions.
31:23I think it's a first, great first step for people
31:27is just reframing the way that they're purchasing.
31:31And we do a lot of, and here's how polarizing it can be.
31:37And sometimes you feel,
31:41you feel hypocritical.
31:42I feel hypocritical sometimes.
31:44You know the number one selling product
31:47at Walmart every year?
31:48You know what it is?
31:49What is it?
31:50It's bananas.
31:53No, you're kidding.
31:55Yeah, very, very strange.
31:56Walmart, biggest retailer in the world.
31:58Yeah, one of the top selling products every year is bananas.
32:02And we don't shop at Walmart, but we buy bananas.
32:05We are not in a place where bananas grow.
32:07We are creating a huge footprint by buying bananas.
32:11And there may be a day where we drive
32:13to Shivers Farm 15 minutes from here
32:15and go and the kids go see the pigs
32:18and we go buy meat at this farm.
32:19And it's an amazing experience.
32:21And we talk to the owner and we're connected in this way.
32:24And the meat is amazing.
32:26And we love supporting that family.
32:28And then we go run by the store and buy some bananas.
32:31And that is the reality for ourselves.
32:33And for a lot of people is we're making a very poor decision
32:36that I know is a poor decision.
32:39We like bananas.
32:39You get a free bottle.
32:42And then we're also supporting Shivers Farm.
32:44But that's what I mean.
32:45Choose your battle.
32:46Like when I moved to the UK,
32:48I chose I'm not eating tropical fruits
32:50because they're not from here.
32:51I haven't had a mango in three years, guys.
32:54I am dying.
32:55For a Dominican, that's a real commitment.
32:57I'm dying, okay.
32:59Pineapple, I haven't had it, nothing.
33:01Because I know it's not from here.
33:04But that's my one fight.
33:06All right.
33:07We're gonna make an attempt to give up bananas here.
33:10If you can give up tropical fruit as a Dominican,
33:13we have to be able to give up bananas.
33:16Okay.
33:17Thank you guys for listening.
33:18Yes.
33:19That's all the time that we have for today.
33:21Use your fight.
33:22Yes.
33:22Pick your battles.
33:23Make a small decision.
33:25Make a small step.
33:26Don't guilt yourself for buying the bananas.
33:29If you're buying local and creating some kind
33:32of positive impact in your own routine,
33:34creating a little bit of culture,
33:36shifting that narrative for yourself,
33:39it will have an impact.
33:41Because there's a few billion people on this planet.
33:43Everybody making that one decision,
33:45it will have, it'll have a net impact.
33:48We really have to hope for that.
33:51Okay.
33:51That's greenwashing, part one and part two.
33:53Go to tangeliclife.org.
33:55Check out the first episode.
33:57Check out the blog post connected.
33:59Lots of resources there so you can get even more confused.
34:03But really, be able to make those decisions for yourself.
34:06Be able to feel like you're empowered
34:08to understand that you have the confidence
34:10and the ability to kind of have some tools
34:12to suss through some of all of this white noise
34:15getting thrown at you.
34:16That's it for Victoria and I.
34:18We appreciate you all.
34:20Cheers.
34:21♪ Let's stop power, let's stop change ♪
34:30♪ From rural lights to brighter days ♪
34:33♪ Equity rising, voice is strong ♪
34:36We're building tomorrow where we all belong.
34:41Tangella talks energy, equity, pride,
34:44empowering the world side by side.
34:47A spark becomes a fire, a vision that's true.
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