- 5/12/2025
🌍 Are your favorite brands truly eco-friendly—or just greenwashing?
In this revealing episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Jensen Cummings expose how misleading sustainability claims deceive consumers and stall climate justice.
📌 You’ll Learn:
– What is greenwashing?
– Why vague labels like “eco-friendly” often mean nothing
– How brands like H&M, Nike, Keurig, Coca-Cola, and ExxonMobil use misleading campaigns
– Why greenwashing causes consumer fatigue and climate apathy
– How you can become an empowered, ethical consumer
📽️ Chapters:
00:00 – Intro: Why Greenwashing Matters
02:00 – H&M’s Buzzword Marketing
05:00 – Fake Eco-Labels from Big Brands
08:30 – Nike’s Net Zero?
14:00 – Keurig & the Plastic Problem
18:00 – EV Emission Myths
24:00 – Airline Ads & Emissions
28:00 – Exxon’s Biofuel Data Spin
32:00 – How Greenwashing Breaks Trust
🔔 Subscribe for weekly expert conversations on energy, justice & the planet.
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
🗨️ Join the Movement: Have you fallen for greenwashing? Tell us your story in the comments.
🔖 #GreenwashingExposed #SustainableTruth #EcoMyths #ClimateJustice #FalseSustainability #EthicalConsumerism #GreenMarketingLies #ConsciousConsumer #SustainabilityMatters #BrandTransparency #EnvironmentalAccountability #GreenwashingAwareness #StopGreenwashing #TangelicTalks #EcoFriendlyOrFake #ConsumerAwakening #ClimateAdvocacy #BehindTheLabel #SustainabilityScam
In this revealing episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Jensen Cummings expose how misleading sustainability claims deceive consumers and stall climate justice.
📌 You’ll Learn:
– What is greenwashing?
– Why vague labels like “eco-friendly” often mean nothing
– How brands like H&M, Nike, Keurig, Coca-Cola, and ExxonMobil use misleading campaigns
– Why greenwashing causes consumer fatigue and climate apathy
– How you can become an empowered, ethical consumer
📽️ Chapters:
00:00 – Intro: Why Greenwashing Matters
02:00 – H&M’s Buzzword Marketing
05:00 – Fake Eco-Labels from Big Brands
08:30 – Nike’s Net Zero?
14:00 – Keurig & the Plastic Problem
18:00 – EV Emission Myths
24:00 – Airline Ads & Emissions
28:00 – Exxon’s Biofuel Data Spin
32:00 – How Greenwashing Breaks Trust
🔔 Subscribe for weekly expert conversations on energy, justice & the planet.
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
🗨️ Join the Movement: Have you fallen for greenwashing? Tell us your story in the comments.
🔖 #GreenwashingExposed #SustainableTruth #EcoMyths #ClimateJustice #FalseSustainability #EthicalConsumerism #GreenMarketingLies #ConsciousConsumer #SustainabilityMatters #BrandTransparency #EnvironmentalAccountability #GreenwashingAwareness #StopGreenwashing #TangelicTalks #EcoFriendlyOrFake #ConsumerAwakening #ClimateAdvocacy #BehindTheLabel #SustainabilityScam
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Thirdly, creating a warm and engaging mechanism for your podcast instead of great, tell me
00:05as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit without any micro music.
00:10Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic, where we dive into the vibrant
00:15world of clean energy, development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.
00:20We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions, and groundbreaking innovations
00:25from the continent-making waves in the global community.
00:28Tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future.
00:32Let's get started.
00:36Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment
00:43with your co-hosts, Victoria Cornelio and myself, Jensen Cummings.
00:47Today is part one of a two-part episode, our first ever two-part deep dive.
00:53We're talking greenwashing.
00:56What is it?
00:57How do you identify it, and who's guilty of it?
01:02All right, so Victoria and I, this is two-fold.
01:04We want to, for ourselves, as we navigate this space, start to better understand what's happening
01:11with companies, with organizations, with governments that are leveraging this green space for good
01:20or for manipulative purposes.
01:23Also, we want you to be able to identify as you're making decisions as a consumer,
01:30as somebody who's navigating these spaces professionally, somebody who's looking to start
01:35a business or an NGO in this sector.
01:38We want to make sure that you understand some of the trials and tribulations that others
01:43have gone through and kind of come from a perspective of honesty and understanding, be able to apply
01:51that so as the green sector continues to grow and flourish with challenges, that you have
01:58an opportunity to navigate that space properly and correctly.
02:02Did I get that about right, Victoria?
02:04Yep, I think you hit it in the head.
02:06All right, so let's start by kind of laying out what is greenwashing, because it is a term
02:15either that people have never heard or one that has become kind of just a catch-all term
02:23for anything happening in this space that we don't quite understand and who's doing what
02:27and is it certified, validated, is it honest, any of these things.
02:32So can you give us kind of a broad overview of greenwashing?
02:35So I think the best definition I can think of, and everybody, just so you know, the blog is
02:40going to be full of references and everything we're talking about, so that'll be really useful.
02:45And the definition, I'm going to read it verbatim from a study that I really like.
02:49And basically, greenwashing is the intersection of two firm behaviors, poor environmental performance
02:57and positive communication about environmental performance.
03:01So it's a dichotomy as it is, right?
03:03A company may engage in environmentally harmful practices while simultaneously promoting an
03:09environmentally friendly image.
03:11And it's really hard to define because it can be many scenarios, but the core of it is
03:17you are lying about the things you're saying.
03:20Yeah.
03:21Misleading at the very least.
03:23Exactly.
03:24Right.
03:24And trying to sometimes siphon credibility from very established and very difficult,
03:32expensive, complicated practices and processes to get to a point of actually being able to
03:39contribute or not contribute to negative impacts on energy, on climates, on environments.
03:47So today's...
03:48I think that's one of the reasons I find greenwashing specifically vile.
03:52Because you're not just lying, you know, just cuss, you're doing it knowing that you're not
03:59doing the things that you need to, to help the climate.
04:02You're doing things outside of the law.
04:04You're doing things to manipulate consumers.
04:06Like, it's very specifically mean, I feel.
04:11Vile is a great word.
04:13And we're going to call out some companies that have famously been in the wrong and been
04:19called out for some of these practices.
04:22In today's part one, we're going to focus a little bit more on kind of the language, the
04:28labeling, the imagery, the packaging, some of the designs, some of those kind of static
04:34pieces that happen.
04:35And then next week, we're going to focus more on some of the media, the marketing, the PR,
04:40some of the kind of manipulative processes that are happening to potentially sway or trick
04:47consumers in this type of space.
04:51So let's get into that a little bit.
04:53The first one, kind of generally speaking, is vague claims.
04:57This is one of the ways that we kind of are trying to just be on the edges of saying, yeah,
05:04we're doing things and using words like sustainability, like eco-friendly.
05:09And one of the companies that got put on blast for this was H&M.
05:13They had what was called their conscious collection, was really trying to say that they were using,
05:19I know, it's kind of laughable, very vague again, like what does that mean?
05:24What's the actual practices or processes or materials that you're utilizing?
05:30And they basically were using some of those words, sustainability, eco-friendly,
05:34that there was no practices that they would point to.
05:38And there was no measurable results of the impact that they were having.
05:42So that's one of the ones, vague claims.
05:44When we talk about vague claims, where does that take you?
05:47What are you thinking about when we reference vague claims?
05:50I mean, there's something to be said.
05:51The word sustainability has a very specific definition of something that can withstand for a long time.
05:57And that's it.
05:59So you can greenwash sustainably if you keep doing it.
06:03Do you know what I mean?
06:04Sustainability in the green sector doesn't have a specific term.
06:07There are no metrics that say this is sustainable, which is why the vagueness comes in.
06:12The issue is H&M is a fast fashion company.
06:14Yeah, the opposite of sustainability.
06:18There is no way.
06:19Like, even if we don't have a hard definition of what sustainability is, fast fashion, we can all agree, isn't.
06:25So the claim is great.
06:27Yeah, because it's literally like it's one cycle.
06:30It's like, here's your trend of the day.
06:31Next.
06:32And I think that's why they said a conscious collection, because there's something being conscious about what you're wearing.
06:37And again, I understand fast fashion has a public and it's a good thing when it comes to economics and being able to buy something that you need in the moment.
06:46There are a lot of things to be said about fast fashion.
06:50But a lot of these things, a lot of people who engage in fast fashion is because the economic circumstances don't let them engage in different kinds of fashion.
06:59Right.
06:59So there's a systemic issue there.
07:01It's not the consumer's fault for engaging in fast fashion unless you're someone who could afford the other thing.
07:06And you're going for that, then, you know, that's a bit crazy.
07:09But I think.
07:10It doesn't mean there's not a benefit.
07:11Right, Victoria?
07:12Like, there's a benefit to this.
07:15You're trying to amplify this benefit or this economic or business model that you have as a company like H&M being in the fast fashion space.
07:25And now you're trying to elevate it in a way that's manipulative and not, in fact, sustainable or eco-friendly.
07:33The other thing is the measure of degree in this is something that I look at a lot.
07:40Could they have used a couple of materials that make that line more eco-friendly than all their other lines?
07:47There's a real possibility that that could be true.
07:51To say that in a way that makes it seem like it is net-net eco-friendly, that's the deceptive part.
07:58Exactly.
07:58Because you're in a space where you are a negative impactor on sustainability as a whole and the goal of sustainability.
08:07And that's the part that's deceptive.
08:09They're not saying this is more eco-friendly than our past products.
08:12They're saying this is more eco-friendly in the fashion space as a whole.
08:16And that's the part that's manipulative and deceptive.
08:18Exactly.
08:18It's toeing the line.
08:19And then you're asking consumers to check out your impact reports to see if it's true.
08:24And this is the thing.
08:25As consumers, we're supposed to be able to trust companies.
08:28We shouldn't have to do an audit before we walk into a shop.
08:32So you're banking on that thing that people aren't going to check.
08:37People aren't going to call you out.
08:39And then when you get caught, you're like, no, but wait, sustainability means nothing.
08:44And it's called conscious.
08:46And then that's where it comes in.
08:47I think that's why I find it so messed up.
08:50Because it's like the whole thing about greenwashing, especially in fast fashion, there's so many systemic things that have given birth to fast fashion.
08:59And we just don't address them.
09:00We just say like, well, you can either buy this or buy that.
09:02It always feels like that.
09:04I can neither confirm nor deny.
09:08It's like, you're not saying anything.
09:10Exactly.
09:11You're literally not saying anything.
09:12All right.
09:13The next one up was false labels.
09:14One of the companies that got in some hot water over this was Innocent Drinks.
09:18Usage of homegrown eco labels or undefined symbols.
09:23So I think of the recycling symbol.
09:25Recycle, reduce, reuse, recycle.
09:28We forget about the reduce and reuse.
09:30And we just think that recycle is the whole thing.
09:32But we know that kind of angled arrow triangle.
09:36I'm describing that horribly.
09:38But we recognize that.
09:40You also see like a green leaf being something that's eco-friendly.
09:44So people have recognized that we are perceiving certain types of labeling and symbols as then representing from some accredited third-party source.
09:57That this product does, in fact, meet certain certifications, certain parameters, certain expectations.
10:04And they're just making those up and putting them on their label so they look nice.
10:09They look more eco-friendly.
10:11They, in fact, have no eco-friendly impact that they can stand on whatsoever.
10:16This is something when you're shopping and you're at a grocery store, a supermarket, and you look at all these labels.
10:24You're like, ooh, that one looks more green.
10:26And we're getting tricked.
10:27I'm guilty of it all the time.
10:28It's like, that label looks more green.
10:30It looks less like a mass-produced product.
10:33And you look at the packaging, you look at the labeling, you look at the ingredients, you look at whatever it might be.
10:38You look at the company that actually owns it.
10:40You're like, it's the same company.
10:41They're charging me a dollar more for different packaging.
10:45Like, what is going on here?
10:46So labeling.
10:47What are your thoughts on labeling?
10:50I mean, hey, I work in marketing.
10:53So we use color theory and we use certain fonts and things like that to invoke a certain message that you want to do.
11:02And this is the thing with greenwashing.
11:04You're taking the basics of what the industry is and flipping it to manipulate people.
11:11You can find three bottles of wine that look the same.
11:15And the labeling is going to shift to one way or the other.
11:18One might look more chic.
11:19The other one might look more elegant.
11:20The other one is just now we have the trend of minimalism.
11:23So it's very basic.
11:25A lot of green marketed things now are very basic.
11:29You know, in skincare as well.
11:31You can see it in things like foods.
11:33It's just cereal.
11:35And it's like, oh, yes, it's minimalist.
11:37There we go.
11:38Two of the other companies that got in some trouble here, Coca-Cola and Unilever, which specifically food, beverage.
11:44And then, yeah, some beauty supply stuff.
11:48Yeah.
11:49And again, this is where, I love what Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary Vee says.
11:53He says, you know, marketers ruin everything.
11:55And it's kind of true because we take it too far.
11:59The idea of marketing and being able to take a product, a service, and connect it to its actual audience that brings value and being able to get a message through a whole bunch of white noise, to me, makes a lot of sense.
12:13Because it breaks through and allows somebody to make a decision that really is of value to them.
12:18So even though there's some aspects of it that you're showing them something to evoke an emotional response that then triggers a purchasing response, can and is manipulative, but often if it's done correctly and honestly, it's creating an interaction and a relationship that that person needed or wanted.
12:38They just weren't understanding the space or the product or the service as it stood before, and you opened up the opportunity.
12:46That being said, when you're now taking that and being deceptive about it and tricking them and utilizing honest marketing, packaging, labeling, and design, and trying to take that and just live on the fringes of it to pretend like you exist in that space.
13:05And then hoping you can trick enough people to create a market share in that space, that's where these companies are getting in trouble with this.
13:14Yeah, and they should.
13:15And they should.
13:16They really should.
13:17Yeah, I agree.
13:18This is a place where cancel culture gets it right.
13:22Yeah.
13:22It's like we need to be making purchasing decisions based on some semblance of a reality in what we're actually purchasing, not just because it makes us feel a certain way, even though we're doing the exact same thing.
13:35And expecting different results.
13:37And I think this is something I said in our very first episode, tools are tools.
13:42Marketing is a tool, right?
13:44And if we're using it in a way of giving people what they need or our perceived need or just convincing them of different things, like the gym, I think is a really good example.
13:55I've seen a lot of different gym marketing and you can go either way, you know, you can get the shaming way, you can go the get strong way, you can go the, this is a free space.
14:05There's so many ways you can market a gym, right?
14:09Some of them will evoke different emotions.
14:13But at the end of the day, if you're doing something that is preying on people's insecurities or people's desperation or people having a need, like a lot of us feel a duty to save the planet.
14:24Then you're, you know, you're capitalizing on a sensitive subject and that's not what marketing should be.
14:31I shouldn't have to tell you, oh, you're going to get wrinkles.
14:33So you should get this cream.
14:35Do you know?
14:36Yep.
14:36Yep.
14:37All right.
14:37So initiatives without transparency is another one we, we see a little bit where we're using certain types of language to position a product in a way that makes us feel like they're moving towards something that we believe in without any action whatsoever.
14:54So Nike got into some trouble with this, with their move to zero campaign.
14:59And it really invoked this idea that they are trying to move to, you know, a zero footprint, right?
15:07That became a thing.
15:08What's your, what's your zero carbon footprint?
15:10And we know that Nike has some kind of horrific practices when it comes to the production of their products and the way that they have managed that over the years.
15:19And we've seen horrible images of, you know, uh, sweat shops in Southeast Asia where these things are being produced and they cost 12 cents to make, and then they're charging a 180 to $500 for a shoe.
15:34Right.
15:34So I think some of that's already known some of the responsibility though.
15:38I do feel like falls on the consumer a little bit to the sense that like, we already know some of what Nike is doing and we keep allowing certain companies to reframe without making.
15:49actual change.
15:50So that's something that they got in trouble for specifically.
15:53And other companies have done that where they're framing themselves and their language in a certain way, moving towards something without actually making anything.
16:02So some initiatives without transparency, how do we create a desire for, and then an opportunity for transparency?
16:13When you look at these spaces,
16:14I hate to say this, but like you said, a lot of it goes down to the consumer.
16:19It shouldn't be our job, but a lot of things shouldn't be our job, you know, vague language, like eco-friendly, green, natural.
16:29And there's no explanation.
16:30There's no evidence.
16:31This is something I will give the UK props for when you read thing that says, oh, this is made with, I don't know, 90% cotton.
16:40At the bottom, it'll have an asterisk and it'll tell you the breakdown of that cotton because we have very strict marketing laws here because again, you can't just lie to people.
16:51But as a consumer, if you are seeing these very vague language being thrown around, specifically, some of them tend to be quite strong buzzwords.
16:59Then look for third-party certifications, right?
17:02Things like Fairtrade, B Corp, Energy Star, FSC, Cradle to Cradle, these kinds of things, right?
17:09You can also, there's a lot of websites where you can check what certification a thing has.
17:15But then again, if you're just going around your normal Thursday and getting some groceries, you're not going to stop and do that.
17:22And that's the issue.
17:23We don't have time to do that.
17:25But we've been put in a position where if we don't, then we might be supporting the wrong thing.
17:30And that's just an unfair place to put a consumer in.
17:34Yeah.
17:35Adding another layer of challenge, maybe even politics onto that, is we're in a space right now where there is so much distrust for institutions, for those third parties.
17:49So, like, we don't trust the company, we don't trust the product, we don't trust the accrediting agency, we don't trust the oversight, we don't trust the regulation, to a point where a lot of these companies are actually, like, thriving because of that.
18:05Because there's so much chaos in understanding and messaging and expectations from the consumer, I'm afraid that we're potentially at this place where we just go, I give up.
18:16I'll just buy whatever, right?
18:19Well, I think that's why we have to look if sustainability is central or superficial.
18:24I think pride is a good example of this.
18:27A lot of companies come out with a pride collection and then it's done for the rest of the year.
18:31Is that what's happening with sustainability?
18:33Are they coming in with a thing for Earth Day or for Save the Trees and stuff like that?
18:37And it's this microcosm of a whole thing they're doing.
18:40Are they launching one green product in this array of products that they have, right?
18:46Is this something that is central to them or is it superficial?
18:49I think it's a really good way for us to start seeing and weeding those things out.
18:54And if you find a company that you like, brand loyalty is a great thing.
18:58Yeah.
18:58Because you can trust them and you can keep up with them.
19:02And you still can hold them accountable and still check in.
19:05Exactly.
19:05All right.
19:06Still check in.
19:06Make sure that there's some of that.
19:09We're in a space where brand loyalty used to be a lot more ingrained in the fabric of the way that we've made purchasing decisions.
19:16I think as everything got cheaper and more disposable, we stopped caring about that and the price points and the convenience of it became more the goal and driving factor.
19:29Things like Amazon, Alibaba, stuff like that, where you could get anything instantly, where we cared more about that than we cared about the brands.
19:36I think there's been a big pendulum swing in that and it continues to swing.
19:42The hope is that there's going to be more expectation of sustainable products, green products, where we start to actually invest our money ongoingly into those things.
19:54That's also culturally different to your point of giving the UK some credit versus what happens here in the United States sometimes.
20:01But even within state by state, you see some of that where we used to live was like you couldn't get a plastic bag.
20:13So now I have to fight to use my bag.
20:17Don't use the plastic bag.
20:19And you get kind of looked at weird.
20:20So there's a cultural difference in that expectation.
20:24And now instead of it being a conscious decision, people are casting doubt on it sometimes.
20:31And that makes it even more difficult to make those type of conscientious decisions when there is political and social pressure on top of the fact that you need to know what's going on with these products and how you utilize them for yourself.
20:46And now I'm back to an existential crisis like I seem to always be on this show.
20:51Well, again, this is the thing.
20:53We can't separate socioeconomics from how we make decisions, right?
20:59I can't ask you to invest in a really good quality pair of shoes if what you can afford is fast fashion because you have other priorities that you have to put your money into, right?
21:09But just like we choose how we put our money into things, see where the money goes to the companies that you're giving money to.
21:16That's what I'm talking about brand loyalty.
21:17There are brands that I keep getting things from because I check their financials.
21:22I check their CSR reports.
21:24Most companies have to publish a CSR report.
21:27And if they don't, trust me, Greenpeace is going to call them out.
21:30So just Google company Greenpeace and all the articles are going to come in.
21:35But again, you're asking a consumer.
21:37Maybe part of what this episode is, is teaching people how to Google better to find the information that they're looking for.
21:46That makes a lot of sense.
21:49Company, Greenpeace.
21:50Yeah.
21:51Or Friends of the Earth, Earth Island Journal.
21:54You can find there's a lot.
21:55But again, I have a brand loyalty to, for example, Client Earth.
21:59Absolutely love those guys.
22:00So anything they say, I am going to trust it, but I trust it because they always give a disclaimer at the bottom of who's writing it and where they're coming from.
22:09Again, I am a single woman in my 20s with a lot of time to spare.
22:12I can't ask someone who has a different lifestyle to me to try to fit that in.
22:17And it's a priority to me.
22:19So again, there's a cultural shift because I have that as a priority in my life.
22:22So I go back to it.
22:24This is why greenwashing is so vile, because you're asking a consumer to make all the decisions when we should be able to trust our institutions.
22:33Mm-hmm.
22:33Yep.
22:34Yep.
22:36Ooh, that trust and accountability.
22:38They go hand in hand that sometimes are hard to separate.
22:40All right.
22:41Some kind of hidden trade-offs on the back ends of products.
22:45Keurig got into some problems here with their kind of recyclable pods.
22:49But there was an impossible process for it.
22:52I think of a lot of that where there's so many steps that happen after the purchase to be able to accomplish the thing that is the reason that you bought the product in the first place that then that becomes a barrier that most people will not engage in.
23:08So it's like I feel good about buying the product that's recyclable, but then I'm not able to accomplish the tasks involved to be able to make that happen.
23:19And that, to your point, comes in sometimes when, again, it's our responsibility to take those steps.
23:24But these companies know that most people won't take those steps.
23:27It brings me back to a rebate.
23:30There's like a rebate.
23:31Oh, wow, look, I get money back.
23:3390% of people never send that.
23:34And you have to send it within three days or some crazy number.
23:37You have to send it on your, you know, your first kid's birthday.
23:41And that's the only day of the year that you're allowed to do this rebate.
23:44That it counts.
23:44That it counts.
23:45That will never happen.
23:47And they're banking on that to make sure that the product doesn't, in fact, cost the rebate amount.
23:54So there's a lot of just jumping through hoops that I think consumers get a lot of fatigue in this space because people in the sustainability, green space, impacts on climate change type space have already said, I'm willing to put in more effort, put in more thought, put in more money to be able to get things that have a positive impact.
24:17They are leveraging the fact that they are going to make so many steps that it's impossible for people to actually sustain that for themselves.
24:27So, yeah, but we're also very misinformed.
24:31I think there's a lot of things like recycling sounds like a very easy process, but not everything is recyclable in your specific area, right?
24:41So biodegradable plastics are a good example.
24:43It's not that they break down naturally, it's that they break down naturally in an industrial composting condition.
24:50Do you have an industrial composting condition in your area?
24:54If not, it's going to go into landfill and then they're going to turn into microplastics.
24:58And then we're back into the whole process again.
25:01Again, I'm not asking people to check if they have it.
25:04I'm urging you to check because we can't just rely on the information that we're given if we're given any.
25:13A lot of this information is shared.
25:15You don't have an asterisk telling you, oh, we're going to recycle this down the road where we have these facilities.
25:20And if you're already going out of your way to buy things that are sustainable, a quick Google, just a quick Google to make sure it's really sustainable.
25:29Don't waste your time trying to be sustainable.
25:33Use the Google.
25:34All right.
25:34This brings up lesser of two evils.
25:38Ryanair is an example here.
25:40They have low emissions.
25:44And funny TikToks.
25:45They do have funny TikToks.
25:47Low emissions.
25:48So basically saying we're just less harmful than the other guy.
25:54Basically what we're doing there.
25:55We're not actually low emissions.
25:59We are just lower emissions than the other guy.
26:02It reminds me of that dumb joke where it's like two guys in the Arctic, a polar bear starts running at him.
26:07The one guy is freaking out.
26:09The other guy just ties up his shoes real tight.
26:11He goes, what are you doing?
26:11You're not going to outrun a bear.
26:12He's like, no, no, no.
26:13I just have to outrun you.
26:15Exactly.
26:16Well, come on.
26:18Is that survival of the fittest?
26:20It is totally survival of the fittest in that mode.
26:23And that's just not a good or sustainable approach in any way, shape, or form when it comes to these companies is like low emissions.
26:31How do we, I would still rather lower emissions, knowing that I'm impacting this when I make a purchase and a decision for travel is just, again, manipulative to be like, I'm just trying to outcompete the other guy versus actually having a holistic approach to lower emissions.
26:52I mean, I'm sorry to say, but when the bar's on the floor and you're a bit higher than that, you're doing pretty good.
26:59And if you have no body accounting, like keeping you accountable for it, you're also doing pretty good.
27:04If you don't have to explain yourself, you're doing pretty good.
27:07Being faster than the other guy, you're doing better.
27:11But I think, again, I think I've said this before.
27:14If we ask for things, we get them because in capitalism, they want our money.
27:20So what do we want?
27:21Lower emissions.
27:22Well, that's why Ryanair has lower emissions.
27:24And that's why they're out buying GC, EC jets, because people are like, oh, yeah, I'll do that one.
27:31It's not like I'm not going to fly.
27:32I'm just going to fly more sustainably.
27:36Quote unquote.
27:37Yeah.
27:37And then we get like the dopamine hit of feeling good about ourselves.
27:41Yeah.
27:41Did we actually have an impact?
27:42Again, is a small impact, is an incremental impact, better than no impact at all?
27:50Probably.
27:51Does it mean that we get to think or act in a way that we all of a sudden are creating a net net lower footprint impact?
28:02No.
28:04Like, I don't think that we actually do.
28:08It comes back to our episode with Tom Murphy, the astrophysicist, who said, if the Titanic had had solar panels, it still would have sunk.
28:17And I was like, oh, okay.
28:18So we need to make more holistic and more radical changes to be able to have an actual impact at the end of the day, because otherwise the Titanic is still going to sink.
28:33This last one, there's so much of this, misleading data and metrics.
28:37Who hasn't gotten in trouble in this space?
28:40But ExxonMobil was the one that came up when they were touting some of the use of the algae biofuels was what came up and trying to basically masquerade behind those metrics and data and not looking at the metrics and data that in fact are the totality of the impact that they are having.
29:03And so we're doing a lot with metrics and data to be able to manipulate the numbers and show you one corner of a corner of a corner that somehow has, again, the incremental small changes and then touting that as look at what our company is doing.
29:22It's like, no, one corner of a corner of a corner is doing that.
29:26And it still is a black eye, but not quite as bad as the other elements.
29:32And so data and metric, how do you look through that?
29:35You specifically said you're going to highlight some of the studies and things that you look at as an academic yourself, as somebody who's just immersed in kind of the studying of the things that you're looking at.
29:47How do you sift through those data and metrics to get to kind of the bottom right corner and go, oh, there is a net impact here?
29:54I think you used the word holistic and I really like that word.
29:59And I think it's scary for people to live holistically because there is so much thinking you have to do.
30:06And I think you don't just start living holistically overnight, right?
30:09So electric vehicles are one of the things that we are the most misinformed about or that we actually don't care to know more about because EVs are fully green.
30:18We don't have to talk more about it.
30:20Okay.
30:21How did you get the batteries for it?
30:24All the mining for lithium and cobalt that has to go into it.
30:27The charges for like the way you charge them are fossil powered grids.
30:32So we might be misinformed and don't know these things or we might say, no, I know these things, but it's still better than because the numbers tell me there is less CO2 from EVs than this from that singular thing.
30:46But the whole thing, things don't happen like that.
30:49Like you don't ask the genie to give you something and it comes out of nowhere.
30:52And I think that's where I implore people to look holistically.
30:56There is a whole chain that happens behind the things that we get.
31:00And it's really important to see those things because again, it's really annoying to try to live sustainably.
31:05There's a lot of asking.
31:06There's a lot of skepticism.
31:07There's, it's really tiring.
31:10So you don't want to then find out that this really good thing that you thought was really good isn't actually really good.
31:17But then again, the bar's on the floor.
31:19Yeah.
31:19You might only have the opportunity to make three, four, five decisions that you hope have an impact and make a shift.
31:26And if those aren't even making any kind of shift, then that's when people kind of give up and they go, well, you know, it doesn't work.
31:32And in academia, you see a lot of academics going back and forth on this point because there is the big debate of like, well, little change is better than no change.
31:42It's like, that is true.
31:43But little change is exhausting because you're not seeing anything change.
31:47So you end up doing no change.
31:49That's the issue.
31:50Is the hope that it's like the gym.
31:51You go to the gym once, twice, three times, 10 times.
31:53You don't see a difference.
31:54You go for an entire year.
31:56You see massive potential shifts.
32:00Yeah.
32:00Things like that.
32:00So this is, again, for us in this episode and these episodes and everything that we're doing, we are trying to explore and ask questions and be curious in a space that is immensely impactful and important and immensely complicated and convoluted at times.
32:17Our role and job is to try and have the conversations, try and ask the questions, not have all the answers, but be able to allow you to be a part of the conversation so that you can decide the ways in which you want to live, the impacts that you want to have, the companies that you want to support, the companies that you want to start, the work that you want to do in your life.
32:38That's why we're here.
32:39That's what motivates us to do this.
32:40So greenwashing was an important concept because it's come up multiple times and it's going to help us suss through all of the white noise of this space that we're in around sustainability, clean energy, climate change, when it comes to work that we're doing with Tangelic and with Tangelic Talks.
32:56So that was kind of our talk on what greenwashing is, how to identify who's guilty of it.
33:01So next week, we're going to talk more, a little bit more on the kind of the PR, the media, the marketing side from a campaign standpoint, from some of the shallowness or the manipulation that might happen there, some of the blame shifting that's happening in that space as well.
33:18So we'll get into that next week.
33:20And we're excited to be able to have a two-part where we can dig in a little bit more because sometimes 30 minutes or 33 minutes is not enough time.
33:27Yeah.
33:27And they go by quickly.
33:29They go by really, really quickly.
33:32So any last thoughts?
33:33Otherwise, we'll let people go and we'll get into it again.
33:36Well, just a teaser for next time.
33:38Something that I want people to know.
33:40Some oil companies spend more on marketing green initiatives than they invest in clean energy.
33:46Woo.
33:48That.
33:49And you can find those links on the blog.
33:51Find those links on the blog.
33:52This will be one of the most valuable blog posts to check out that's connected to these episodes because you'll be able to go to
33:59down some rabbit holes and some resources and you'll be able to follow the money, which I think is an important thing to remember.
34:06Follow the money and you'll see kind of where we're making our decisions on both the creation side and the consumer side of some of these things.
34:14All right.
34:14That's it for this episode of Tangelic Talks from Victoria and I.
34:17We appreciate you.
34:19Bye.
34:19Tangelic Talks, energy, equity, pride in power in the world side by side.
34:46A spark becomes a fire, a vision that's true.
34:50Together we rise.
34:51It starts with you.
34:53Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
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