Decolonizing Climate Messaging: Greenwashing, Power & Storytelling w/ Stefano Cisternino | Tangelic Talks S02E07 - video Dailymotion

Tangelic Life

🌍 Is greenwashing just clever marketing—or a deeper legacy of misinformation? In this urgent episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Jensen Cummings sit down with Stefano Cisternino, climate journalist and communications expert at ICLEI Europe, to unpack the power behind climate messaging—and how greenwashing, colonial narratives, and systemic misinformation shape public perception.  Decolonizing Climate Messaging: A Deep Dive on Greenwashing & Power with Stefano Cisternino  🔍 What You'll Learn: 🧼 Greenwashing at the institutional and media levels 🗞️ Who controls climate narratives—and why it matters 🌱 The colonial roots of sustainability language 🎤 Real stories from COP, EU Commissions & Indigenous collaborators 🧠 Why emotional humility is key to climate conversations 📢 How to rebuild trust through local voices & oral histories  🔹 About Our Guest: Stefano Cisternino is a journalist, communications strategist, and director at the Observatory on Climate Misinformation, focused on decolonial climate narratives across Europe and the Global South.  📌 Timestamps: 00:00–02:40 Introduction: Meet Stefano Cisternino – Sustainability Leader & Eco-Entrepreneur 02:41–05:15 Why Sustainability Needs a New Narrative 05:16–08:32 Sustainability & Fashion: Breaking the Fast Fashion Habit 08:33–11:10 From Inspiration to Action: Launching Sustainable Startups 11:11–13:45 Circular Economy & Behavioral Change: The Italian Experience 13:46–16:20 Degrowth vs. Green Growth: A Thought-Provoking Debate 16:21–18:54 The Role of Youth & Education in Climate Innovation 18:55–21:30 Local to Global: How Small Actions Spark Big Movements 21:31–24:05 Building Community: The Power of Collaboration in the Green Transition 24:06–26:32 Final Reflections: Hope, Urgency, and the Road Ahead 26:33–33:00 Closing and End  💬 Whose climate stories aren't being told—and how can we uplift them?  ✅ Like, share, comment, and subscribe to bring more inclusive, powerful, and truthful climate narratives to the world. 🌍⚡  ❤️ Support our mission: TangelicLife.org  🔖 #DecolonizeClimate #GreenwashingExposed #ClimateMisinformation #ClimateStorytelling #TangelicTalks #NarrativePower #PowerAndPlanet #EpistemicJustice #InclusiveClimateAction #JustTransition #LocalVoicesGlobalImpact #ClimateTruth #ListenToTheSouth #CollaborativeSolutions #SustainabilityWithoutColonialism

Transcript

00:00We are communicating a green image that sometimes takes priority over delivering

00:05transformative change. So it performs only on the second part. Are we really communicating

00:09the right message? Eternally grateful to the work that you're doing from that front, because

00:15for Victoria and I, again, coming off, it took us two episodes, and I still don't understand

00:20greenwashing, right? Then you are just a victim of information, of any kind of information.

00:24And now with the rise of AI, this is becoming even more evident, obvious, and dangerous.

00:54And groundbreaking innovations from the continent-making waves in the global community. Tune in

01:00and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future. Let's get started.

01:08Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment

01:13with your co-host, Victoria Cornelio, and myself, Jensen Cummings. In today's episode, we're talking

01:18decolonizing the message, climate truth in a circular world. We have with Stefano, Sister

01:24Nino. Stefano is an environmental journalist and communications expert on circular economy

01:30at ICLEI Europe. He is also director at the Observatory Climate Misinformation and co-founder

01:37of the Earth Society. Stefano, thanks for being with us. Welcome. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.

01:44All right. We are excited because one of the topics that you are deeply enthralled in right now

01:52is greenwashing. And we just got off of back-to-back episodes talking about greenwashing

01:58because it is such a pervasive topic right now. It is so incredibly difficult to untangle and

02:05understand. Victoria and I wanted to dig deeper into it for ourselves as now media in this space so

02:12that we could better understand it and to help our audience better understand what's happening here.

02:16To have your perspective now is very exciting for us. So just give us the high level. Greenwashing,

02:22what is happening in this space? How can we start to understand greenwashing at kind of a systemic level?

02:28Sorry.

02:29Great question.

02:30Yeah. To answer that, I think that it's really important first to give a little bit of the ground

02:36of what I've done in the past. Meaning, I've worked for quite a while with this institution or with,

02:45in this case, I'm talking about European institutions and with many other organizations that are connected to that.

02:50So I experienced a different level of greenwashing disinformation and forms that, of course,

02:55forced the intention of promoting a certain perspective about the system of the topics.

03:00But what is interesting to consider in this case, and I hope it is going to be clear in the way that I'm

03:06going to represent it, is that on one side, we made huge progress in picking climates onto the agenda.

03:12So that's not for sure that I cannot hit it. But on the other, I worry we are seeing a shift from ambition to optics.

03:22You know what I mean by that? We are communicating a green image that sometimes takes priority over delivering

03:29those formative change. So it performs only on the second part. Are we really communicating on the right message?

03:38Or are we just experiencing a specific way of greenwashing? If we are talking specifically about an institutional level,

03:46then this becomes an institutional risk. But through the top-down process, what we're seeing is that greenwashing

03:53for a cascade effect reaches the lowest level of our population, leading to

03:58misconception at every possible level for every type of social dynamics. So I don't think mostly in

04:06Washington, for example, if a topic is about policy spaces, it's malicious. It does not come specifically with

04:13the population per se. It often comes to pressure. I give an example. In the last year, I worked on two major records on the

04:28Europe and the level of pressure that was continuous. I mean, deadlines, inputs, feedbacks, and so on. And I'm not talking about suggestions. I'm talking more about orders, political direction that specific information should take.

04:49So what I mean by that is that there is reality. And reality, in this case, if I'm talking about scientific facts as a specific way of

04:57the person feels self. And then there is politics. And politics, most of the time, tend to impublish some will and redefine reality itself.

05:05So when I talk about pressure, pressure to show your path, pressure to show leadership. And this, of course, defines also the way that the public will redefine or define support for a specific topic.

05:21So, at the moment, communication becomes more about maintaining appearance than about sending specific messages and engaging with our questions. There are not any more other questions.

05:33Because we're talking about, if we're talking about the climate crisis, if we're talking about all the different rights that are connected, it's not a few years. It's decades that we are reiterating

05:45with this greenwashing. It's not something new. It's just, you know, a category, a way of defining a process that has started in many, many different ways.

05:55So, I don't know. Everything that we're supposed to know about with the climate crisis and all the related processes, it's already there.

06:03What we're seeing right now is that it's almost so obvious that there is a problem that we're trying to save our appearance in front of our

06:15two. And it's even worse if we're talking about an institutional perspective, because our people, especially young people, to look at our co-inspiration as a sort of point of reference.

06:30But what we find is instead a continuous attachment or disengagement from society and particularly the young parts from the institutions.

06:40This leads to stronger and stronger disengagement, this belief in the role of institution and the possible

06:50creation of new ways of understanding information and digesting.

06:57What do I mean by that? If we're talking about greenwashing, greenwashing at the moment, it's almost completely created, developed, spread through

07:09through social media, through new platforms and so on.

07:14Young people, I mean my purpose, but I hope that I can still consider myself part of that category.

07:21Use and find information mostly on social media.

07:28But by personal experience, by working on social media and doing continuously sentiment analysis of different types.

07:35And by sentiment analysis, in case it's a term that is too technical, it's about taking a huge amount of data coming from social media,

07:43analyzing them and trying to understand what is the sentiment, what are the feelings, what are the emotions, the thoughts behind specific topics.

07:51And so, for example, I conducted this sentiment analysis to see, do people in Europe actually understand, know or feel something about the European Green Deal?

08:01And what is interesting is that people are not even aware about what is the European Green Deal.

08:06And if they are aware, it's full of misconception, because it's seen as an institutional imposition.

08:14So if we take the European Green Deal, it's an example that works at the European level.

08:18But just think, because we don't talk about decolonization, any kind of measures that is framed from an institutional perspective,

08:26and then it's not connected with all the levels of the society reaching every single city and making them feel that they're included in this process is doomed to fail.

08:40Yeah.

08:41I will stop here, otherwise I will continue in a monologue.

08:44Stefano.

08:45Yeah.

08:46To your hope of making it clear, that was both very clear and articulate and incredibly confusing,

08:52because you have just laid out how massive, massive and intertwined systemic and how cultural and political all of this is.

09:03So the fact that you're working so diligently across so many different organizations, wearing so many different hats,

09:09to actually try and get to the root of this and then be able to, as a communications expert, bring that message forth in a simple and articulate way.

09:17I'm eternally grateful to the work that you're doing from that front, because for Victoria and I, again, coming off two,

09:24it took us two episodes, and I still don't understand greenwashing, right?

09:28And the fact that you're spending all of your time in that space, really appreciate that, because I now understand how difficult that is.

09:34Deep breath, everybody.

09:36Victoria, please jump in here, because I know, like you said, decolonizing is something you're very interested in.

09:41It's actually your commentary on decolonizing specifically in Ghana is one of the things that put us on to the work that you're doing,

09:48because so much of our work at Tangelic is based on the ground in Ghana.

09:53So get into that a little bit, Victoria, because I know you're really passionate about that topic specifically.

09:57Yeah. Well, I think one thing I want to get out of the way and get your thoughts on, would you consider greenwashing a form of misinformation?

10:05Absolutely. Absolutely. Meaning, I'll give you a really practical example.

10:10Last year wasn't my first experience, but the last year was, let's say, particularly traumatic.

10:16And I went to Baku for COP.

10:20So if people are not aware about COP, that's the biggest summit for climate change, where, sorry, climate and acquisition,

10:30where all the major decisions concerning climate change are taken.

10:33There are certain people that say that it's a waste of time.

10:36There are certain people that say, yes, it's a waste of time, but really tiny, tiny steps are taken each time.

10:42But one thing it's on a theoretical level say, okay, greenwashing, it's a form of representing specific facts in a way that it seems to be sustainable in order to promote certain interests, blah, blah, blah.

10:53Another thing, it's having a physical representation in Washington.

10:57When an entire summit, an entire point of gathering, it's so rooted into the concept of fossil fuels as a way of even being sustainable.

11:08When you hear the president of a country saying that fossil fuels are the gifts from God, that's the pure representation of premium.

11:17The word is that if you start an institutionally public speech with this kind of word.

11:26Yeah.

11:27Yes, it's a good question, but also it's a way of misleading.

11:30It's a way of promoting misconception.

11:32Because what is going to follow, the words that you're going to pronounce immediately after that, just a cowardly lies.

11:40And someone that doesn't have the correct defenses, and this is really interesting in the field of debunking and prebanking, because the entire concept is developing kind of your own protection, your own defenses to recognize when you face greenwashing and be able to counter that.

11:59Then you are just a victim of information, of any kind of information.

12:04And now with the rise of AI, this is becoming even more evident, obvious and dangerous.

12:09Yeah.

12:10And I'm working a lot with, when I talk about greenwashing, this information, with understanding what are the specific elements, dynamic and factors that make me understand that when something is written by an AI or it's a video produced by AI.

12:25And I see a lot, even more right now, if we're talking about the climate crisis, if we're talking about the colonization zone, videos that are created completely through different types of programs.

12:37Particularly at the moment, I see a lot through Sora, there is the one from GGBT, that creates such realistic videos that it's almost impossible to distinguish from reality.

12:51And it's only through developing this kind of, you know, tools, skills and defenses that everyone could be able to detect AI or disinformation.

13:04So yeah, I hope that that's realistic.

13:07Yeah, no, it does. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to state that is because we all have a certain idea of what misinformation or greenwashing looks like.

13:16But from your experience, is climate misinformation also about whose knowledge is considered valid?

13:22So how can we challenge maybe Western epidemic dominance and environmental narratives or the way that we talk about things that we value some views over others?

13:31Is it also who do we consider as valid part of that climate misinformation that you're trying to maybe tackle?

13:38So, in general, I will start from one thing, any kind of knowledge, knowledge in general is not neutral.

13:46So it comes from a position of power.

13:49So if we're talking about a particular crisis, it's important to understand that and connected to this information,

13:57it's never about just spreading information or spreading this information.

14:03There is always something underneath that. There are many layers that we are not able to see.

14:08And it takes a critical eye to understand that.

14:11So, I find it really interesting that when we talk about, you know, let's say, this sort of invisible hierarchy,

14:20that is presented when we're talking about knowledge, when we talk about it in Washington.

14:25Yes, knowledge. Knowledge, and we talk about sustainability, it's always scientific or it should be scientific and objective.

14:33Yeah.

14:34What makes something scientific and objective and another type of knowledge only anecdotal or a mission?

14:39And why I'm producing these things? Because we're talking about Ghana, we're talking about decolonization,

14:44we're talking about countries and territories that most of the time, they don't have a voice.

14:50Or if they have a voice, it's always the voice of a picture.

14:53It's never like an active actor that is participating in defining strategies or solutions in communicating in a specific way that is not misinterpreted, filtered, manipulated.

15:08So, why don't we talk about these two different dragons?

15:13Robert Frost would say it took, like, the poem, but in this case, it's about one that is the one that everyone says.

15:23There is, I say that the Northern and the European or Western, it's always the scientific and objective.

15:30All the others are just pale imitation, they're anecdotal, they're emotional.

15:36Completely diminishing the value, for example, of indigenous knowledge.

15:39Completely ignoring that if you're talking about, for example, climate education.

15:45How can we talk about climate education without considering that it comes from a colonial past or that there is a historical process that we consider in order to even introduce the topic?

15:58So, going back to that in the climate context and just to introduce a concept that I think is very important,

16:08we cannot stop the washing if we are not aware of all the different layers and biases that can address any kind of information.

16:18In America, in particular, if we're talking about climate.

16:21This is particularly if we're talking about climate education and space-centric countries.

16:24Because prioritizing Western scientific knowledge over indigenous or local environmental knowledge, it's itself colonization.

16:33Yeah.

16:34So then, as a communicator, how do you create safe spaces for these voices that aren't represented in such a Global North perspective heavy environment?

16:44That's the real problem.

16:46And when I introduced the example of the young people, this can be used also for this context.

16:54So, you know, we keep repeating the word communication, but communication is a two-way process.

17:00There is a communicator, there is a receiver.

17:03And sometimes, as a communicator, you should put yourself in the shoes of the receiver, of your audience.

17:11And so, be the one that is actually listening in order to produce something that is not the repetition of the repetition of the same state.

17:17When I, for example, I joined the European Submission, it was, I want to define a type of narrative that is overcompensive, that everyone can believe in it.

17:34But the definition of something like that, it's almost impossible, if not completely impossible.

17:41Because this completely deletes any kind of differences, any kind of characteristic of that community, that specific citizen and that specific community.

17:52So, I cannot make something that works, for example, for my own country, for Italy, and Warsaw and Zidane.

17:58I need to consider all the specific dynamics that are interested in a specific country.

18:03And even, I go deeper.

18:05So, consider local level.

18:07And if the local level is still too broad, I need to go deeper.

18:11And I do that.

18:13I have a specific experience that will explain it all quite good.

18:17In the resources.

18:19In the resources.

18:21In the resources.

18:23Because I was really interested in the impact of the climate crisis on indigenous peoples.

18:28And communities.

18:30And when there, as the waiters do that,

18:33meaning, I'm a researcher.

18:37I'm here to research, analyze, and understand what is going on here.

18:42No empathy was at all.

18:44And I faced reality in a really harsh way.

18:48Like, they weren't allowing me to participate in any kind of meetings, in any kind of gatherings.

18:54Because I was a researcher.

18:57And I was excited that they didn't belong in that community.

19:00So, I had to spend the first two minutes listening and sharing.

19:04And this was such an humble experience.

19:08Because I started to understand that it wasn't really serious.

19:12First of all, as a human being.

19:14Even in our daily conversation.

19:18How many times?

19:19Even when we are listening to someone else.

19:21We are already thinking about what we want to say, instead of listening.

19:25That's the point.

19:26That's the point.

19:27You should start to listen more to the perspective of the other people.

19:30In order to be able then to communicate.

19:32In collaboration.

19:34These communities.

19:36With the individual partners.

19:38The specific knowledge that must be spread around.

19:42Because I studied for quite a long time.

19:45Indigenous solutions and tools for climate change.

19:48And beyond this sort of metaphor.

19:53We are trying.

19:54At every article.

19:57Report.

19:58Policy brief.

19:59A new solution for climate change.

20:03To reinvent the wheel.

20:04At the moment.

20:05We are sitting on a pile of wheels.

20:08It is getting higher and higher and higher.

20:10And there is no end in this process.

20:14And so every single one is so proud of the wheel that is inventing.

20:19But you can see on your right.

20:20On your left.

20:21On your bottom.

20:22On top.

20:23Another wheel that is the copy of the previous one.

20:25We are not inventing anything.

20:27Indigenous knowledge already provided us with a lot of solutions.

20:31We are not listening.

20:32We are not seeing.

20:33We are the physical presentation.

20:36And the embodiment of the three monkeys that are not seeing.

20:40Not listening.

20:41And not talking.

20:42Not talking.

20:43Because otherwise.

20:44We are challenging.

20:45A system that.

20:46You know.

20:47We always done.

20:48This was very existential.

20:51This little piece for me here.

20:53Because as you're talking about active listening.

20:56It's something I work on all the time.

20:58And in active listening.

20:59There's two things that aren't included in the strengths of active listening.

21:04Number one is advice giving.

21:05And number two is problem solving.

21:07And I am such a problem solver.

21:09Who's made a living of giving advice.

21:11So even as you were saying that.

21:12I was like.

21:13Don't think of the next question you're going to ask Stefano.

21:15Just listen.

21:16To what he's saying.

21:17And try to really understand that.

21:19I very much feel you.

21:20When you walked into those rooms.

21:22And wanted to be in those rooms.

21:24You were ready to be able to.

21:26To put your perspective into play.

21:28And everything that you've learned.

21:29And you're so excited.

21:30And then you get humbled.

21:31And saying.

21:32No, no, no.

21:33You're at the kids table.

21:34You need to sit.

21:35And you need to listen.

21:36So I really appreciate that you went through that.

21:38And thank you.

21:39Very much for sharing that.

21:40From a messaging standpoint.

21:42How do we invert.

21:44That top down messaging.

21:46We're always looking for that global.

21:48International soundbite.

21:50That everybody can rally behind.

21:52That everyone's going to fall in line.

21:54What you're saying is.

21:55We need to start with.

21:57The ground up.

21:59And we need to reverse that.

22:00And we need to look at.

22:01A whole diversity of messages.

22:03How do we even go about.

22:05Not what is the message.

22:07How do we go about.

22:09Thinking about.

22:10How to create messaging.

22:11From a top.

22:12From a bottom up.

22:13Type approach.

22:14Versus from a top down.

22:15Type approach.

22:16I will start with an example.

22:18I.

22:20So when was in.

22:22February.

22:23Yeah.

22:24February.

22:25I'm.

22:26I collaborated.

22:27For a little bit.

22:28With the UN.

22:29I was invited.

22:31At the.

22:32UN headquarters.

22:33In New York.

22:34To participate.

22:35To.

22:36This huge conference.

22:37That was.

22:38Tackling the.

22:39Connection between.

22:40Gender.

22:41And.

22:42Between gender.

22:43And climate change.

22:45And there was a strong focus.

22:46In indigenous knowledge.

22:48I participated.

22:50To many meetings.

22:51Many.

22:52I know.

22:53World felt.

22:54Uh.

22:55Indigenous.

22:56There.

22:57And there wasn't.

22:58Even a single.

22:59Opposite.

23:00This crazy.

23:01That was really.

23:02Kind of.

23:03A critical.

23:04But.

23:05I remember.

23:06Simply.

23:07One.

23:08Meaning that.

23:09It's still.

23:10It's still.

23:11Something that.

23:12I think about.

23:13We were talking about.

23:14Uh.

23:15How to help.

23:16Indigenous communities.

23:17It was like.

23:18The.

23:19You couldn't go.

23:20More broad.

23:21Than that.

23:22It was like.

23:23Climate change.

23:24And.

23:25Indigenous communities.

23:26So.

23:27Like.

23:28You know.

23:29These titles.

23:30That perhaps.

23:31Are even.

23:32AI generate.

23:33Um.

23:34And.

23:35With the.

23:36And there was again.

23:37Them.

23:38White.

23:39Blue.

23:40White.

23:41And it's not.

23:42That's.

23:43For the sake of.

23:44You know.

23:45Identify.

23:46A specific category.

23:47It was.

23:48Exactly.

23:49Like.

23:50It was.

23:51Talking with.

23:52Through.

23:53Did.

23:54Vargas.

23:55Representing.

23:56From.

23:57Different.

23:58Different.

23:59Different.

24:00Different.

24:01Different.

24:02Different.

24:03Different.

24:04Different.

24:05Different.

24:06Different.

24:07Different.

24:08Different.

24:09Different.

24:10It's.

24:11We.

24:12It's more.

24:13Than a decade.

24:14If not.

24:15Many decades.

24:16That.

24:17We are listening.

24:18To the same thing.

24:19And.

24:20At this point.

24:21We are glad.

24:22That you could.

24:23To invite us.

24:24To this.

24:25We do want.

24:26Your help.

24:27In a.

24:28Do it.

24:29By.

24:30So.

24:31Just this.

24:32Example.

24:33To present.

24:34What I think.

24:35Should.

24:36Of course.

24:37I say that in the most.

24:38Humble way.

24:39Because.

24:40I mean.

24:41I think that.

24:42On a certain level.

24:43It's part of the problem.

24:44Because.

24:45I continue to be.

24:47In this.

24:48In a system.

24:49That promotes.

24:50In a certain way.

24:51Of this information.

24:52To promote.

24:53Certain conflict.

24:54In watching.

24:55And so on.

24:56In a system.

24:57In a system.

24:58Where.

24:59My main.

25:00Worries.

25:01No.

25:02Sorry.

25:03Tercery.

25:04Worries.

25:05I worry.

25:06About.

25:07I don't know.

25:08What movies.

25:09To watch.

25:10Or.

25:11If.

25:12Are.

25:13This.

25:14This call.

25:15These are.

25:16My worries.

25:17I'm not worrying.

25:18If climate change.

25:19Is going to destroy.

25:20My entire.

25:21Really.

25:22So.

25:23First.

25:24We need to rethink.

25:25Completely.

25:26Whose knowledge.

25:27To rethink.

25:28Whose knowledge.

25:29Of the platform.

25:30And how we define.

25:31Credibility.

25:32The definition.

25:33Of credibility.

25:34So.

25:35That means.

25:36Investigating.

25:37Partnership.

25:38With.

25:39Southern.

25:40Media.

25:41Outlets.

25:42In.

25:43Ten years.

25:44That I do.

25:45Journalism.

25:46Particularly.

25:47From Western.

25:48Outlets.

25:49Media.

25:50Outlets.

25:51It's incredibly.

25:52Rare.

25:53They're trying.

25:54Collaboration.

25:55With.

25:56Local.

25:57And.

25:58With.

25:59And.

26:00With.

26:01The.

26:02Resonate.

26:03With.

26:04Me.

26:05And.

26:06I joined.

26:07This organization.

26:08What's called.

26:09Tune.

26:10And.

26:11I really.

26:12Recommended.

26:13To give it a look.

26:14The idea.

26:15Is to.

26:16Decolonize.

26:17Knowledge.

26:18Particularly.

26:19Academic.

26:20Knowledge.

26:21And.

26:22Connect.

26:23Local.

26:24Researchers.

26:25With.

26:26Practitioners.

26:27Or.

26:28From.

26:29Maori.

26:30Researchers.

26:31From.

26:32So.

26:33Many.

26:34Different.

26:35Ones.

26:36That.

26:37Of.

26:38Course.

26:39Were.

26:40Completely.

26:41Disappearing.

26:42Under.

26:43That.

26:44Through.

26:45A.

26:46Specific.

26:47Algorithm.

26:48It's always.

26:49First.

26:50Yeah.

26:51I mean.

26:52The main.

26:53Platform.

26:54At.

26:55The same.

26:56Time.

26:57It's a.

26:58Business.

26:59So.

27:00Specific.

27:01Results.

27:02Correspond.

27:03Specific.

27:04Interest.

27:05Yeah.

27:06And so.

27:07Media.

27:08Autors.

27:09Community.

27:10Registration.

27:11Local.

27:12Researchers.

27:13Not.

27:14Just.

27:15Taking.

27:16The.

27:17Knowledge.

27:18And.

27:19Just.

27:20You know.

27:21Ah.

27:22I'm.

27:23Acknowledging.

27:24That.

27:25I use.

27:26The knowledge.

27:27From.

27:28That.

27:29Going.

27:30Back.

27:31To.

27:32This.

27:33I was.

27:34Reaching.

27:35To.

27:37This.

27:38Kind.

27:39Of.

27:40Episode.

27:41Where.

27:42We're having.

27:43It's.

27:44Not.

27:45Just.

27:46About.

27:47To.

27:48Get.

27:49To.

27:50This.

27:51This.

27:52Makes.

27:53The.

27:54The.

27:55Second.

27:56Point.

27:57We.

27:58Need.

27:59To.

28:00Spot.

28:01Epistemic.

28:02Bias.

28:03In.

28:04So.

28:05It's.

28:06It's.

28:07Not.

28:08About.

28:09Identifying.

28:10Form.

28:11Of.

28:12Greenwashing.

28:13Or.

28:14Disinformation.

28:15Systemic.

28:16Or.

28:17Not.

28:18It's.

28:19About.

28:20To.

28:21To.

28:22The.

28:23Different.

28:24Chains.

28:25That.

28:26Define.

28:27This.

28:28Specific framework.

28:29And.

28:30Now.

28:31We can.

28:32Identify.

28:33Perhaps.

28:34Free.

28:35Us.

28:36From.

28:37This.

28:38System.

28:39So.

28:40Who.

28:41Is.

28:42The.

28:43Is.

28:44A.

28:45Crisis.

28:46It's.

28:47A.

28:48Crisis.

28:49It's.

28:50A.

28:51Crisis.

28:52Proposal.

28:53Who.

28:54Is.

28:55Getting impacted.

28:56By.

28:57That.

28:58And.

28:59What.

29:00Is.

29:01My.

29:02Role.

29:03As.

29:04Communicator.

29:05As.

29:06A.

29:07Member.

29:08Of.

29:09That.

29:10The.

29:11Third.

29:12We.

29:13Need.

29:14To.

29:15Widen.

29:16The.

29:17Communication.

29:18Prodict.

29:19At.

29:20The moment.

29:21It's like.

29:22We have.

29:23What is called.

29:24In English.

29:25As we said.

29:26As we said.

29:27As we said.

29:28As we said.

29:29As we said.

29:30As we said.

29:31As we said.

29:32As we said.

29:33As we said.

29:34As we said.

29:35As we said.

29:36We don't know.

29:37To use it.

29:38That.

29:39It's the most.

29:40That we completely.

29:41Ignore.

29:42The other.

29:43Should live with it.

29:44So.

29:45Visual storytelling.

29:46Oral history.

29:47Street level interviews.

29:48This can reach.

29:49People.

29:50In ways.

29:51That.

29:52A pdf.

29:53A ppt.

29:54And policy memos.

29:55Never will.

29:56I remember.

29:57This.

29:58This experience.

29:59That I had.

30:00When I was.

30:01I don't know.

30:02So.

30:03I was in.

30:04Vancouver.

30:05And.

30:06I wanted to understand.

30:07The value.

30:08Of.

30:09Of.

30:10The.

30:11Northern.

30:12To.

30:13Connect.

30:14Indigenous communities.

30:15With.

30:16With.

30:17The.

30:18Local.

30:19Society.

30:20And.

30:21I participated.

30:22In.

30:23These.

30:24Meetings.

30:25And.

30:26Then.

30:27I conducted.

30:28These.

30:29Interviews.

30:30So.

30:31I brought.

30:32Before.

30:33That.

30:34Millions.

30:35All.

30:36I think.

30:37In the moment.

30:38That I looked.

30:39Back.

30:40These.

30:41Articles.

30:42I was like.

30:43These words.

30:44Are incredibly empty.

30:45I just read.

30:46Some articles.

30:47I put.

30:48Some critical thinking.

30:49Not even.

30:50The answer is basically.

30:51Me.

30:52Myself.

30:53And I.

30:54Right.

30:55Without considering.

30:56Who was.

30:57My target.

30:58Or.

30:59What I was writing about.

31:00So.

31:01It's out of my.

31:02Yeah.

31:03I really appreciate.

31:04You.

31:05Saying all those things.

31:06With examples.

31:07Rooted back to you.

31:08And.

31:09How.

31:10How it all comes.

31:11Full circle really.

31:12Thank you so much.

31:13Yeah.

31:14It's a.

31:15It's a personal journey.

31:16On a local.

31:17And global stage.

31:18Simultaneously.

31:19I think that's.

31:20That's part of the.

31:21The opportunity.

31:22And the contradiction.

31:23That we face.

31:24In the.

31:25In our world now.

31:26You know.

31:27And we're in.

31:28We're in three different.

31:29Countries here.

31:30Talking to each other.

31:32A magical conversation.

31:33For us three.

31:34As individuals.

31:35For anybody.

31:36Who listens to this.

31:37Who watches this.

31:38I think it's so important.

31:39So.

31:40Really appreciate that.

31:41Again.

31:42Everyone.

31:43You know.

31:44As always.

31:45We have.

31:46A blog post.

31:47Attached to this.

31:48With some.

31:49Exclusive content.

31:50At 10.

31:51Angelic.

31:52Life.

31:53Dot org.

31:54Check that out.

31:55Because.

31:56Wow.

31:57We have a lot more.

31:58To talk about.

31:59With Stefano.

32:00This was a really.

32:01Inspired.

32:02What's been doing.

32:03So.

32:04Seven.

32:05We really appreciate.

32:06You being on.

32:07And again.

32:08We.

32:09On a personal level.

32:10We appreciate.

32:11The work that you're doing.

32:12Because.

32:13We're just.

32:14Dipping our toes.

32:15Into it now.

32:16Victoria and I.

32:17And we see.

32:18How complex.

32:19It is.

32:20Before we grow.

32:21We're.

32:22Let's stop power, let's stop change

32:28For rural lights to brighter days

32:32Equity rising, voices strong

32:35We're building tomorrow where we all belong

32:39Tangela talks, energy, equity, pride

32:43Empowering the world side by side

32:46A spark becomes a fire, a vision that's true

32:49Together we rise, it starts with you

Decolonizing Climate Messaging: Greenwashing, Power & Storytelling w/ Stefano Cisternino | Tangelic Talks S02E07

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