- 2 days ago
In this segment of News Today, the focus is on the escalating confrontation between the opposition and the Election Commission (EC) over alleged electoral roll irregularities and large-scale voter fraud.
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00:00All right, the big questions that we are asking in this debate tonight.
00:03Has the face-off with the Election Commission somewhere down the line
00:06given a rallying point to the opposition, to the India bloc?
00:10The fight with EC, how far is the opposition willing to take it?
00:15Is the election process under a cloud?
00:18Has the government shied away from a debate on the SIR?
00:23All of those questions taken to our guest this evening.
00:26Joining me, Rajat Sethi, political commentator, Ajoy Kumar, spokesperson Congress,
00:31R.P. Singh, spokesperson BJP, Anjali Bharatwaj, governing council, member,
00:36common cause, social activists.
00:38I'd like to begin right now with Dr. Ajoy Kumar.
00:41Dr. Kumar, the fact is, you know, out there, many voters who might even believe
00:45all your allegations because you have allegedly given proof is what you say.
00:51But when the EC continues to ask you to put it on an affidavit,
00:55sign that affidavit, why is the Congress, Rahul Gandhi or anyone from the Congress,
01:00actually dithering to sign that affidavit?
01:03Because somewhere down the line, then you're giving that message
01:06that you're not confident of your own investigation.
01:10No, no. Actually, there's a bunch of bunkum.
01:13Because, you know, the rules they keep quoting,
01:16the affidavit is only, I mean, there have been adequate legal opinions on that.
01:22But the affidavit in any kind of electoral complaint is within the six months of the election,
01:28and that's the only requirement.
01:30And it doesn't even just, it doesn't even pass a smell test.
01:34You don't need to do it first.
01:36But what's the, but do it, if that's what it takes, because right now that's...
01:39No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're again making a mistake.
01:43Because who are there to tell us?
01:45We are told that they are, Preeti, one second, simple.
01:49Today's prominent newspaper has said in Madhagpur,
01:53all six assemblies, five assemblies had an increase from 2004 to 2025,
02:0024, 30% increase, around 30%, 28%.
02:04Madhagpur had 140%.
02:07In Bihar, you have 3 lakhs people, 2 lakhs 87,000 with house address zero.
02:14You have Modi and Yogi in a Muslim household in Madhya Pradesh.
02:20You have 100 people of different castes from the same,
02:24from different castes in a village in Bihar.
02:27It's incredible.
02:27And no female, by the way, no ladies, only men.
02:32And according to the birth rate, I mean, they were born every four months,
02:36which is again incredible.
02:37Then you have a one 24-year-old lady who is a first-time voter.
02:41Again, power to the BJP and, you know, R.P. Singh party,
02:45because fantastic, the oldest person in the world
02:49has been located by the election commission as a first-time voter.
02:54So such blatant shame.
02:57Okay, but Dr. Ajay Kumar, we're going to come back to it.
03:00But let me ask you that.
03:01With all that you say that this is, you know, blatant vote fraud, all of that,
03:07why can't we move beyond the fact of the Congress putting it in writing
03:11and giving that affidavit?
03:12Because I'll tell you what, the optics of it is
03:15that Rahul Gandhi or the Congress refuses to sign that affidavit,
03:19which raises questions on whether or not this is actually EC data,
03:23which the EC is questioning in itself.
03:25So sign that affidavit and move on from there.
03:27So look, what's going to happen in the next few days, I can't predict.
03:32But I want to tell you very clearly that our people met the election committee,
03:36the chief electoral office in Karnataka,
03:38and these people, the data was handed over.
03:41First question, who hands it over from the political party,
03:44signed paper and, you know, given to them is not the issue at all.
03:47The issue is my concern with what's happening in India.
03:54And you people like you, sensible people like you also saying,
03:57doesn't it outrage you that your channel has proved it,
04:04that there are 100 people?
04:06And some crazy, one of the BJP's, you know, YouTubers come on,
04:09the supporters come on the TV and say,
04:11oh, there's hostels and all.
04:12I mean, you know, the amount of nonsense they're spewing on the TV.
04:17My simple question is, go and verify.
04:19We have any self-respecting,
04:23and look at the way these, any self-respecting institution
04:25wouldn't have threatened.
04:28And last, most important is,
04:31all these years,
04:35all these years,
04:37till this 2014,
04:39when this new India came,
04:40the election commission,
04:43you go and met them,
04:44handed over the paper.
04:45We have met the election commission
04:46umpteen number of times for data
04:48in digital format, okay?
04:50Before this, forget a fit of it.
04:53The whole Congress party opposition
04:55has gone and met the election commission
04:56for the past few months.
04:57Okay.
04:58Why are they giving it in digital?
04:59And BJP, why don't, why is the BJP?
05:01But Dr. Kumar, you know,
05:02it's not about being sensible or not.
05:04You know, you have given certain facts
05:06that you claim are true.
05:08Nobody's contesting that.
05:09We have actually gone down on ground,
05:11and we can say for sure
05:13that there is tangible evidence,
05:15prima facie,
05:15which requires a deeper investigation.
05:18I just need, I just...
05:19No, no, no, so I'll circle back to you.
05:21But the question is,
05:22if the EC is making it about an affidavit,
05:26which you need to just sign,
05:27which you own what you said,
05:30because of the virtue of not giving in that signature
05:33and that affidavit,
05:34you're making it seem
05:35that you don't believe in your own facts.
05:37That's what the question I was asking.
05:38I'll come back to you, sir.
05:39Allow me to open up a little bit.
05:40No, no, no, I just want only three seconds.
05:43Sir, it's...
05:43If you promise.
05:44Okay, go ahead.
05:44I'll come back to you.
05:46I'll just cut across to R.P. Singh,
05:47and I'll go to R.P. Singh,
05:48and I'll circle back to you.
05:50I want to go to Sardar R.P. Singh.
05:51Sardar R.P. Singh,
05:52the question is,
05:53what many find absurd right now,
05:56the reason that the government
05:57is refusing to have a debate
05:59on the floor of the parliament is one,
06:01that the EC is a constitutional body
06:03and the BJP has absolutely nothing to do with it.
06:06If the EC is a constitutional body
06:09and the BJP or the government
06:10has nothing to do with it,
06:11why is R.P. Singh in the capacity
06:13of a spokesperson sitting on this channel
06:15and defending the election commission today?
06:17Well, Preeti,
06:20I've been saying regularly
06:22that I can't hear what you're saying.
06:23I've been sending messages also to your team.
06:25Please ask them to help me out.
06:26Okay, can you hear me, sir,
06:27or should I come back to you?
06:28Can you hear the question that I asked you?
06:31But can I...
06:32I need to answer...
06:32I could only hear...
06:34I could only hear word Madhapur in between
06:36and I need to answer that only.
06:37Sir, what?
06:37No, no, no.
06:38I'll come back to you, sir.
06:38If you can hear the question
06:40and I'll come back to you
06:41if you can't hear it.
06:43The question is,
06:44the reason the government's not having a debate
06:46in parliament is because
06:47EC is a constitutional body
06:49and you have nothing to do with it.
06:52So, therefore,
06:52how can you hold a debate?
06:54In that respect,
06:55why is it that the BJP
06:56is going out on a limb
06:57to defend the election commission
06:58against these allegations?
07:00We shouldn't be doing it.
07:01We are not defending election commission.
07:02I got your point.
07:03You're saying that
07:04since EC is a constitutional body,
07:05so we can't have debate in the parliament.
07:07So why are we defending...
07:08We're not defending election commission.
07:10We are nowhere defending election commission.
07:11Election commission is on record saying
07:13that whatever Rahul Gandhi has said
07:15is misleading.
07:16They use word...
07:17The exact word is that
07:19he's misleading.
07:20So if he's misleading,
07:23then let's understand
07:24the right phrase
07:24for people who mislead.
07:26I mean,
07:27the people who mislead
07:28are called liar,
07:29misleader,
07:29or fraud.
07:31So if Mr. Rahul Gandhi
07:32should file a case
07:32against election commission
07:33saying that,
07:34how can you ask...
07:35Whatever he has put,
07:37every question of Mr. Rahul Gandhi
07:41has been answered
07:41by election commission
07:42on the Twitter handle,
07:44on the X handle,
07:46and then it has mentioned that word.
07:48I'm using...
07:49I'm just reading out from that only.
07:51So my only humble request is
07:52that let Mr. Rahul Gandhi
07:54go and file a case
07:55against election commission
07:57of defamation
07:58that how have you said
07:59that I'm misleading?
08:00Because if he's misleading,
08:01then he's a fraud
08:03or a misleader
08:04or a liar.
08:04I mean,
08:06that's what I'm reading
08:06for a person who misleads
08:08does the answer
08:09from the chat GPT.
08:11But issue is
08:12what is the problem
08:14with Mr. Rahul Gandhi
08:15if I say something,
08:17I'll stand by that
08:18and let Mr. Rahul Gandhi
08:20go and file an affidavit
08:21and say,
08:22yes,
08:22I stand by what I said
08:23and let election commission
08:24answer that
08:25it's four days
08:25that he's running away
08:27from this.
08:28I've never seen
08:28leader of opposition
08:29so scared of
08:31filing an affidavit
08:32on record.
08:33Whether the election commission
08:36might have called
08:37the allegations
08:37of Rahul Gandhi
08:39and the Congress
08:40and now the opposition
08:40as misleading.
08:42You know,
08:42chat GPT aside,
08:43the bigger question
08:43is just this, sir.
08:45The fact is,
08:45if the BJP
08:46is an independent outfit,
08:48then the BJP
08:48should say
08:49that the EC
08:50should investigate it
08:51instead of
08:52defending the election commission
08:54and attacking
08:55the Congress
08:55and opposition.
08:57If there is no defense
08:59of the EC,
09:00you should come out
09:01and say the EC
09:01should investigate it.
09:04Okay,
09:04I didn't want you
09:06to get into that
09:07answering on behalf
09:08of EC,
09:09but let's understand
09:09he's a very learned
09:12spokesperson
09:12of the Congress party.
09:14When was the last time
09:15you won
09:15that central
09:16Bangalore assembly?
09:192019
09:19the parliament
09:21was constituted.
09:23The 2009
09:24seat was carved out
09:25as central Bangalore.
09:27When was the last time
09:28you won that?
09:28You lost each
09:29and every election
09:29after 2009.
09:30And we have lost
09:31Madhupur
09:32each and every election
09:33after that.
09:34In that,
09:35only that segment.
09:36But let me quote you
09:37from another constituency
09:38named Dhule
09:38in Maharashtra.
09:40There are
09:40one,
09:41two,
09:41three,
09:42four,
09:42five,
09:42six,
09:42seven
09:43assembly
09:44constituencies.
09:45And we have won
09:46each one of them,
09:47each six of them
09:48and we have lost
09:49Malagao
09:50by one lakh
09:5193,000 votes.
09:53Total vote
09:54poll is some
09:54like two lakh
09:56to three thousand.
09:57We have lost it
09:58by one lakh
09:5893,000 votes.
10:00So,
10:01there are comparisons.
10:03They talk about
10:04that election
10:04has been
10:05stolen
10:07or election
10:08has,
10:08there is some
10:09sort of fraud
10:09happening in election.
10:10I mean,
10:11sometime back
10:11they used to say
10:12EVM mein garbada hai,
10:14EVM mein garbada hai.
10:15Give me a second,
10:16Preeti nao.
10:16EVM mein garbada hai.
10:18So,
10:18agar EVM mein garbada ti
10:20to phar
10:20hum electoral roll
10:21mein garbada karni kaya jura hai.
10:22EVM mein hai jhori ti
10:23saa ka aapke saaap se.
10:24Even then,
10:25we could only win
10:26240 seats
10:27in the parliament election.
10:28EVM mein garbada hai ke baat.
10:30Actual problem is
10:31they have lost
10:32the ground.
10:33And Mr. Rahul Gandhi
10:34was recently there.
10:35I'll show you the video
10:36in the next round.
10:37He was there on ground
10:38in Bihar.
10:40He asked a woman
10:41how is the education
10:43in the school?
10:44She said,
10:44excellent.
10:45Is English being taught?
10:46She said,
10:47excellent.
10:47Yes,
10:48English is being taught.
10:50Do your children
10:51get to
10:51get computer?
10:52Sir,
10:52what's the correlation
10:53with that video
10:54and the allegations?
10:55No,
10:55no,
10:56please.
10:56That's the real issue.
10:57That's the crux of the issue.
10:58she said,
11:00even bicycle
11:00has a computer.
11:01There is a bicycle.
11:01There is a computer.
11:01There is a computer in English.
11:02In English,
11:02in school,
11:03there is a good study.
11:04So you're saying the opposition
11:07is grudging the development.
11:09Therefore,
11:09they are making these allegations?
11:13No,
11:13no,
11:14because they are trying
11:15to build up a narrative.
11:16Dev,
11:17since
11:18and please ask someone
11:21to help me out.
11:23Okay,
11:23I'm going to ask somebody.
11:24Can somebody please,
11:25you know,
11:25at the back end,
11:26can we get his audio line fixed?
11:28Clearly,
11:29there seems to be a problem.
11:29I want to go to Anjali Bhardwaj
11:31and then I'll cut across
11:32to Mr. Rajat Sethi.
11:33Anjali Bhardwaj,
11:34you've highlighted,
11:35at least with what is happening
11:37in Bihar,
11:37the EC's lack of transparency.
11:39What do you think
11:40in this case,
11:41the allegations
11:42that have been made
11:43by the opposition
11:44should be the adequate
11:45election commission response?
11:49Look,
11:49Preeti,
11:50this is a question
11:51which goes to the heart
11:52of electoral democracy
11:54in our country.
11:55The election commission
11:56is supposed to ensure
11:58that there are free
11:59and fair elections.
12:01There can be no
12:02free and fair elections
12:04unless the electoral role
12:06is proper.
12:08And what is happening
12:10in Bihar
12:10and the questions
12:12that are being raised
12:13by the opposition today
12:15are really related
12:17to what is happening
12:18to the electoral role.
12:20So unless the electoral role
12:22are shown to be
12:24absolutely impeccable
12:27and all exercised
12:29that the election commission
12:30undertakes
12:31to do purification
12:33or verification
12:34of the electoral roles
12:35is transparent.
12:37It invokes
12:38the trust of the people.
12:40We are in a very,
12:42very dangerous situation.
12:44We know that
12:45the electoral roles
12:46are the underbelly,
12:47the soft underbelly
12:49of elections.
12:50If electoral roles
12:51are tweaked with,
12:53if they are not correct,
12:54they can change
12:55change the election outcome
12:57even before
12:58the elections happen.
12:59So this is not
13:00a matter
13:02which is to be taken lightly.
13:04We have been pointing out
13:06that the election commission
13:07is not being transparent
13:09about whatever exercise
13:11it is undertaking
13:12in Bihar.
13:1465 lakh names
13:15have been struck down
13:17from the voter list,
13:18draft voter list,
13:19after the first phase
13:20of the SIR.
13:21That list,
13:22along with reasons,
13:24should have been put
13:25in the public domain.
13:26We have been saying
13:27it should have in fact
13:28been put at the
13:29poll booth level
13:30so that people
13:32could have gone
13:33and checked it physically
13:34if they don't have
13:35access to the computer.
13:36But here,
13:37the list with the reasons,
13:39you know,
13:39the election commission
13:40is saying 65 lakh people
13:42have either died
13:43or they have shifted
13:44permanently out of Bihar
13:45or they can't be found.
13:47Now,
13:47if somebody
13:48can check that list
13:50and their name
13:51appears on it,
13:52they can immediately
13:53go and say,
13:54look,
13:54I'm alive
13:55or I'm here
13:56and my name
13:56has been incorrectly
13:57struck off.
13:58That is not being allowed
14:00by the election commission
14:01not being transparent enough
14:03and not putting those lists.
14:05Despite this matter
14:06being agitated
14:07in the Supreme Court,
14:09the election commission
14:10is saying,
14:10no,
14:11we will not put out the list.
14:12Where is the need
14:14for secrecy?
14:15This is what
14:16shakes public confidence
14:17in what the election commission
14:19is doing.
14:20Now,
14:20as far as
14:21what the opposition
14:22is saying is concerned,
14:24if there are concerns
14:26that are being raised,
14:27it doesn't matter
14:28whether the leader
14:29of opposition does it
14:30or a single citizen
14:32of the country
14:33does it anywhere.
14:34In fact,
14:35the election commission
14:36has always prided himself
14:38in saying
14:39that we believe
14:40that people
14:40are the eyes and ears
14:41of the election commission.
14:43They have a sea vigil app.
14:44If anybody
14:45puts up a photograph
14:47or files a complaint,
14:49even that is to be considered.
14:51Where is this question
14:52of the election commission
14:53of our country,
14:54a constitutional body,
14:56asking for other things
14:57and not addressing
14:58the problem at hand?
15:00The election commission
15:01in a democracy
15:01like ours
15:02should immediately
15:03take up the issue
15:04and say,
15:05look,
15:05we are going to do this
15:06not just with the political parties
15:08but in the open.
15:10We will take people
15:11into confidence.
15:12Finally,
15:13the election commission
15:14in our democracy
15:15is accountable
15:15to the people
15:16of the country,
15:18Preeti.
15:18If they lose trust
15:20of the people,
15:21then really
15:22there is nothing left
15:23in our electoral democracy.
15:25Rajat Siti,
15:26I want to bring you in
15:27on this
15:27because, you know,
15:28add to it the fact
15:29that there is another case
15:30which is going on
15:31parallelly
15:31which is being challenged
15:32on the election commission
15:34refusing to retain
15:36CCTV data
15:38of Boots
15:39over 45 days.
15:40So that's something
15:41that is being challenged
15:42on the side as well.
15:43But overall,
15:44you know,
15:44Rajat,
15:45do you think
15:45at least the optics
15:46of it can be a bit damning
15:48because I'll tell you why
15:49because you have at one end
15:50the opposition
15:51alleging voter fraud
15:52on what they claim
15:53is their evidence.
15:55The EC doesn't really come in
15:56and say anything right now.
15:58You know,
15:58there is no press conference.
16:00There are source-based information.
16:01There are a couple of tweets
16:02that are making the round.
16:04You have somebody
16:05like an Arvind Limbawali
16:06who, you know,
16:07especially,
16:08you know,
16:09if you underline
16:09Karnataka
16:10on what Rahul Gandhi said
16:12has come out
16:12with a point-by-point rebuttal.
16:14It's somewhere down the line
16:15erodes
16:16the trust
16:17in the election commission.
16:18This should be done
16:19by the election commission,
16:20not a BJP leader.
16:24Well,
16:25I think BJP
16:27is stepping in
16:27because it is
16:29BJP's victory
16:30which is being tarnished
16:31by the opposition
16:32and BJP has every right
16:33to come in
16:33and expose
16:35the ridiculousness
16:36of this attempt
16:38by the Congress Party
16:39and their supporters
16:41to actually belittle
16:42one of our stalwarts
16:45of our constitutional pillars.
16:47If they want to carry on,
16:48BJP is well within its right
16:49to expose
16:50the ludicrous behavior
16:52of the opposition party.
16:53You can counter it
16:55by, you know,
16:55doing protests
16:56the way you did it.
16:56You can carry on
16:57that protest.
16:58That is well within your right.
16:59Now,
16:59my point is
17:00the absolute absurdity
17:02and let me underline that.
17:04You know,
17:04Rahul Gandhi goes,
17:05does this expose of sorts
17:07and atom bomb of sorts,
17:09puts out the data,
17:10puts out the data
17:11saying that
17:11these so-and-so voters
17:12are fraud.
17:14People of that same
17:15constituency
17:15are coming up
17:16and putting social media posts
17:18saying that,
17:18no, no, no,
17:18I'm still there.
17:19I'm still sitting
17:20on that address.
17:21So my problem here
17:22is that
17:23what Lord Rahul Gandhi
17:25says,
17:25how does that
17:26become a gospel truth?
17:27How does that
17:28automatically translate
17:29into something
17:30wherein you start
17:31saying that
17:31everything else is fraud?
17:32What I'm saying
17:33is not fraud.
17:34I mean,
17:35how are you jumping
17:35into that conclusion?
17:37And that goes
17:37with any citizen.
17:39If I have to file
17:40a complaint,
17:41I will need to do that
17:42taking the proper,
17:43you know,
17:44procedures into account.
17:45If I have to file
17:45an affidavit,
17:46I will do that.
17:47Affidavits
17:48is not something
17:48which is like
17:49a rocket science.
17:50You do that
17:50every single day
17:51on so many matters.
17:52Anybody who has
17:53gone through
17:54a legal case
17:54knows that
17:55there are just
17:55so many affidavits
17:56that you file.
17:57I don't know
17:58where is this
17:58this context
17:59of affidavits
18:00missing coming in.
18:01The second thing
18:02is about electoral rolls
18:03and the way
18:03it is presented.
18:04See,
18:05there is a very
18:05delicate line
18:06around the privacy
18:07of the citizens
18:08also with the addresses
18:09and with the photographs
18:10which is put out.
18:11You can't have it,
18:12you know,
18:13in a way
18:13where everybody
18:14who wants to stalk
18:15the other citizen
18:16can do that freely.
18:18So there has to be
18:19some kind of a delicate
18:20balance which has
18:20to be put in place.
18:21And let me tell you
18:22in today's day of AI,
18:24Mistral has this
18:25intelligence character
18:26recognition where
18:27you can do all of
18:28this exercise
18:29in a split second.
18:30But drama has to be there.
18:32So you print out
18:33and you make a pile
18:34of it seven feet.
18:35In today's day in AI,
18:36that is laughable,
18:37Preeti Ji.
18:38Again,
18:38I'm going to say
18:39that you are
18:40a political party.
18:42You run elections.
18:43And when elections happen,
18:45you have your booth
18:46level workers
18:46who have that list,
18:48that panna.
18:49In that panna,
18:50you can clearly see
18:51who is a fraud
18:52and who is not a fraud.
18:53What are your party
18:54people doing
18:55right at the time
18:55of election?
18:56Why is it always
18:57post facto?
18:59Why don't you come in
19:00and create a ruckus
19:01right at the time
19:02when the electoral
19:03role is finalized
19:04and you take that
19:05to the election commission
19:06to the task right there?
19:07But you don't do it
19:08over there.
19:09You do it after
19:09the election is done,
19:10after you have lost
19:11the election.
19:12You won't do it
19:12in Jharkhand.
19:14Will Mr. Rahul Gandhi
19:15go and go through
19:16each of the electoral
19:17roles in Jharkhand?
19:18He won't do that.
19:20And this is the problem.
19:21He has not sat ever
19:23with his polling booth
19:24to officers of the
19:25Congress party.
19:26If he does that,
19:27they will educate him
19:28far better
19:28because they are the ones
19:29who have those electoral
19:30roles who sit outside
19:32the polling booth
19:32and do tick boxes
19:33each time.
19:35But Rahul Gandhi
19:35has to come out
19:36from his high horses,
19:38get into the messy
19:39exercise of election
19:40process before making
19:42a sweeping judgment
19:42the way he is making.
19:44My problem is that
19:45he is ill-advised,
19:46he is ill-experienced,
19:47he does not know
19:48how the electoral
19:49process works,
19:50he does not know
19:50how decennialized
19:51the process is that
19:52no single entity
19:53from the chief
19:54election commissioner
19:55sitting at the very top
19:56can turn a key
19:57and the whole election
19:58sways.
19:58It doesn't work like
19:59that in a country
20:00like India.
20:01You have a hugely
20:02decentralized process
20:03in every nook and corner.
20:05Congress party
20:06and that too in Karnataka
20:07has its own workers
20:08who go and scan
20:09these documents
20:10on a regular basis.
20:11You can't do this
20:12post facto exercise
20:13at all.
20:14Okay, I'm going to
20:15take final comments
20:16from all of you
20:16right now,
20:17but the hyperbillies
20:18that much amplified
20:20Ranjad Sethi
20:20because there is
20:21a seeming silence
20:22from the election commission
20:24other than a tweet
20:25here and there.
20:26And for whatever
20:26he might be,
20:27he's still the leader
20:28of opposition.
20:29There have been reporters
20:30who've gone on ground
20:31some of us as well
20:32who've at least
20:32come out prima facie
20:34and you're right,
20:34there are other reports
20:35contrary to that as well.
20:37But prima facie
20:38with reports
20:39which seem to warrant
20:40a deeper investigation
20:41and possibly
20:42that's the reason.
20:43I want to, you know,
20:44bring in Dr. Rajoy Kumar
20:45back into this conversation.
20:47Dr. Rajoy Kumar,
20:47let me juxtapose
20:49with what, of course,
20:49Rahul Gandhi said
20:50and what's also happening
20:51in the state of Bihar.
20:52Now, Bihar,
20:54we've debated ad nauseum.
20:56We've had you on the show.
20:57We've seen how
20:58every Mahagadbandan party
21:00has gone out on a limb
21:01to reject the SIR process
21:03which is being debated
21:05right now in court as well.
21:07But the larger question is
21:08which the EC says
21:10and Anjali ji,
21:11I'll bring you in
21:11on that as well.
21:12Not a single complaint
21:14has come in
21:15leave alone
21:16from any political party
21:17but the BLOs as well.
21:19No, no, no, no.
21:20The EC says.
21:21One sec, one sec.
21:21First of all,
21:22again, lying.
21:24The BLAs are not complaining.
21:26The political parties
21:27are complaining.
21:27So that is where
21:28they continuously lie.
21:29The workers will give it to us
21:31like Tejas Ali Yadav said.
21:32We need to stop
21:33their nonsensical lies.
21:35One poor BLA
21:36in one booth
21:37will go and complain
21:38and file it.
21:39He will go to his leader
21:40and then the MLA
21:41will go and file it.
21:42So the BLAs are nonsense.
21:43But let me count it.
21:44Look, you'll have to give me
21:44two, three minutes on this.
21:46On oath.
21:48Mr. Gandhi has taken
21:49repeated oaths
21:50as a member of parliament.
21:52Okay?
21:52He has continuously
21:53said that I stand by my word.
21:55And this election commission,
21:56they have also taken our oath.
21:58So let them check this thing.
21:59So the oath
21:59is a nonsensical thing.
22:01Names deleted.
22:02Now, I was hearing,
22:02you know,
22:03these bombastic words
22:04by my colleagues
22:04from the panelists,
22:05Rajat and everybody else,
22:07R.P. Singh.
22:07Let me start with Maharashtra,
22:08with facts.
22:10You gave the list
22:10of deleted names
22:11in Maharashtra.
22:12Why aren't you giving it
22:13in BR?
22:13No answer.
22:15Because the BJP is involved.
22:17Second,
22:18soft copy.
22:19Why aren't you giving
22:20the soft copy?
22:21Tell me one thing.
22:22Why can't you give
22:23the soft copy
22:23so that everybody
22:24can search and see
22:25what a big fraud
22:26you're doing?
22:26And fraud is not EC.
22:28You and EC
22:29are doing the fraud.
22:30Mr. Alpi Singh and Rajat,
22:31because since you
22:32are a reputed supporter,
22:35Amit Walviya
22:35put up an epic number
22:37which was wrong.
22:38We proved it to you,
22:39but you refused to accept it.
22:41The famous gobel fraud
22:43of the Bahtia Janta Party,
22:44Amit Walviya,
22:44put the wrong epic number.
22:46Okay?
22:47Coming to the stalwarts
22:50of election.
22:52Election did a great job.
22:53The same election commission
22:55said electoral bonds
22:57is not good,
22:58but then gave an affidavit
22:59five years back
23:00that we have no comments.
23:02Same election commission
23:03gave electoral bonds
23:05is not good for democracy.
23:07stalwarts
23:08of the constitutional
23:10protection,
23:11Mr. Alpi Singh.
23:12The same election commission
23:13has got nothing to say
23:14on electoral bonds
23:15which has destroyed
23:16this country
23:17by the money power.
23:18No, and I'll come to
23:19most important.
23:21Madhapur,
23:22you,
23:23Alpi Singh sahab,
23:24Dule hoiya Madhapur.
23:26Check both.
23:28We are not interested
23:29in losing or winning.
23:30We are interested
23:30in the future of India.
23:32Check Dule.
23:33Prove that Dule is also
23:34a fraud.
23:34We'll be happy.
23:36It is not whether
23:36Jharkand,
23:37Baisaab.
23:38It took us,
23:38one second,
23:39it took us,
23:39one second,
23:40I didn't interrupt you,
23:41you don't interrupt me.
23:42It took us seven months
23:43to finish.
23:44One second,
23:44let me finish.
23:4530 seconds,
23:48okay,
23:48one second,
23:49R.P. Singh,
23:51I'll come to you,
23:51allow him,
23:5230 seconds,
23:52sir,
23:52please,
23:53make your final comments.
23:54It took us seven months.
23:56Mr. Singh,
23:57I'll come to you,
23:58allow him.
23:58Make your point.
23:59It took us seven months
24:01only for one assembly.
24:03One assembly.
24:04500 loksabha seats
24:06into six around
24:063,000 plus assemblies.
24:08One,
24:09because you can't,
24:10you have to type,
24:10it's not machine readable.
24:12So look at the audacity.
24:14We did it in a place
24:14where we had the resources
24:15to do it.
24:16We would love to do it
24:17in the whole country.
24:18Why can't you give it
24:18in a format?
24:19Because you are all frauding.
24:21It's a cheated election.
24:22If you had lost 20 seats,
24:23Mr. Modi wouldn't be
24:24prime minister
24:25and manage that well.
24:26But Dr. Rajoy Kumar,
24:27if it is,
24:28okay,
24:28because there's so much
24:29about optics in this game,
24:30put your money
24:31where your mouth is,
24:32put that signature
24:32on an affidavit
24:33and leave the ball
24:34in EC's court.
24:35You've anyway said
24:35you have zero faith
24:36in the EC.
24:38Do that then.
24:40Okay,
24:40we'll see if you do that.
24:42R.P. Singh,
24:42I want to bring you
24:43back into this conversation.
24:44You wanted to come in
24:45for a rebuttal
24:46where Dr. Rajoy Kumar
24:47was concerned.
24:48But larger question, sir.
24:49There are,
24:50you know,
24:50questions that need
24:52to be asked
24:52of the EC
24:53and it's problematic
24:55if the BJP
24:57is going to come out
24:58and defend the EC.
25:02Well,
25:03I'll answer that.
25:04But Preeti,
25:04today minister
25:05has been sacked
25:06in Karnataka.
25:08I thought probably
25:09you'll bring that
25:10into your debate
25:11and tell people
25:12why they're...
25:13Did you not see
25:14the story right
25:14before that?
25:15I was in trouble
25:16with that.
25:17Yes.
25:18So,
25:19go ahead,
25:20sir,
25:20make your point.
25:21So,
25:21the reason behind
25:22is that he managed
25:23saying that,
25:25yes,
25:25this has happened
25:26after our party
25:27has been government
25:28and Ajay Kumar Ji,
25:29please,
25:30ECE,
25:31you can dig into
25:36any quarter list
25:37of the country
25:38for any constituency.
25:40I can,
25:41if you want,
25:41let me know,
25:42I'll help you out.
25:43Help me out?
25:44You...
25:45Yes,
25:46I'll show you.
25:46I'm saying it is...
25:47You can't search.
25:49Yes,
25:49there is...
25:50Sorry,
25:51go ahead,
25:51go ahead.
25:51You're finished.
25:52You can read
25:54everything you want
25:55to read.
25:55You can search
25:56everything you want
25:57to search.
25:57You want me to open it,
25:58I'll open it for you
25:59and probably help you
26:00out with this.
26:00Give me a second
26:01now.
26:01It's more.
26:02It says,
26:02select state,
26:03district,
26:04assembly constituency,
26:05language,
26:06role type.
26:07What else you need?
26:08Preachy,
26:09help them out,
26:09please.
26:11And then...
26:11I'll give you my
26:12answer.
26:13I'll give you my
26:13time.
26:15Sir,
26:15Dr. Kumar,
26:16allow our PC.
26:17He gave you your
26:17time.
26:18Yes,
26:18yes,
26:18yes.
26:21Please,
26:21I'll appreciate
26:22go through this
26:22action of DC
26:23and then you'll find
26:24everything here.
26:25But you don't
26:25want to hear that
26:26because the problem
26:27is,
26:27as I told you,
26:28the problem is,
26:29they know they're
26:30losing election.
26:31And since they're
26:32losing election,
26:32so they have to
26:33build up some
26:34narrative.
26:35Some narrative,
26:36Madhupur,
26:38some other narrative
26:39of voters being
26:40deleted,
26:41added.
26:4222 lakh voters
26:43were added in
26:44Terenghara.
26:45Mr. Rivendell
26:45Redding was
26:45helping.
26:46Good election,
26:47pushing very good
26:48and won the
26:49election.
26:50Mr. OECC
26:515.41 lakh voters
26:53were deleted.
26:53But R.P.
26:54Singh Ji,
26:55so, you know,
26:55a question that
26:56the likes of
26:57Anjali Ji also
26:57have is then
26:58why is the
26:59first draft of
27:00the list that
27:00has come out
27:01in the state
27:01of Bihar
27:02does not have
27:03the deleted
27:04names published
27:05because that's
27:06a fight which
27:07activists are
27:07fighting.
27:08Anjali Ji,
27:08would you want
27:08to come in?
27:09I'll come back
27:09to your
27:25to anyone who
27:26is watching what
27:28the election
27:28commission is
27:29doing is that
27:30instead of setting
27:32up a task force
27:33immediately saying
27:35that look there
27:35are some very
27:36serious allegations,
27:38there is some
27:39prima facie proof
27:40that has been
27:41presented which is
27:42very concerning
27:43and which can be
27:44very damning for
27:45a democracy.
27:46We are going to
27:47immediately examine
27:49this and do it
27:50transparently and
27:51put out the
27:52information and we
27:54are going to take
27:54people on board.
27:56Instead of that,
27:57we are hearing that
27:58the election commission
27:59is just dithering on
28:01the issue which
28:02is not invoking
28:03any trust in the
28:05institution and let
28:06me say that in our
28:07democracy the most
28:09important thing that
28:10keeps elections going
28:11and people's trust in
28:12elections is trust in
28:14the institution of the
28:15election commission.
28:16As far as the Bihar
28:18role is concerned,
28:19Mr. R.P.
28:20Singh has said that
28:21the list is available.
28:23We all know that
28:24there are two things
28:25which I want to
28:26again repeat which
28:27have been concerning
28:28us regarding the
28:29list.
28:30First of all, the
28:31list to begin with
28:33was searchable but
28:35three days ago, the
28:36election commission
28:37has changed the
28:38format of the list
28:39and made it
28:40non-searchable.
28:42If today we go, we
28:44cannot put in
28:45anybody's name and
28:46look for it in a
28:48searchable format
28:49which is a big
28:50loss.
28:51Nobody should be
28:52expected to put in
28:53names and then go
28:55through lakhs and
28:56crores of name to
28:57look for it.
28:58searchable data is
29:00not there.
29:01The second thing
29:02is that the list
29:04that has been put
29:05out simply says
29:06that these are the
29:08voters that have
29:09now made it.
29:10The list of 65
29:11lakh deleted
29:13voters is not
29:14public.
29:14The election
29:15commission is saying
29:16we've given it to
29:17the BLAs that
29:18might be so.
29:19A, it has not
29:20been put in the
29:20public domain.
29:22How are people
29:22supposed to check
29:24names and go even
29:26to the election
29:27commission and say
29:29that our name is
29:30not there and
29:31there is no reason
29:32Preeti that has
29:33been given.
29:34Why those names
29:34have been deleted
29:35and recently
29:36you were shaking
29:37your head.
29:37Why so?
29:38Go ahead.
29:39No, no, no.
29:39This is absolute
29:40absurdities.
29:41Why has election
29:43commission on the
29:44specific case of
29:45Bihar changed the
29:46rule book?
29:48What are the
29:48deletion reasons
29:50given for the past
29:5175 years of our
29:52country, country's
29:53election history?
29:54Why do you want
29:55to make Bihar a
29:56special case?
29:57Why were similar
29:58activists not on
29:59the streets in all
30:00the previous elections
30:01when the deletions
30:02were made?
30:03My name from my
30:04home constituency
30:04was deleted as
30:05well.
30:06Nobody sent me a
30:06letter saying that
30:07hey, your name has
30:08been deleted.
30:09It doesn't work
30:09like that.
30:10You have to be as
30:11a cognizant citizen.
30:12You need to do
30:13that.
30:14You need to go out
30:14and search.
30:15And by the way,
30:16let me tell you,
30:17over here the only
30:18reason is being sore
30:20losers.
30:21All the opposition
30:21party members who
30:22have lost election
30:23are out in the
30:24fray because they
30:24are all sore losers.
30:26And you know,
30:26we have all done
30:27elections, we have
30:28all handled elections,
30:29we have all voted
30:29in our elections.
30:30The only psychological
30:32warfare that is
30:33happening is let us
30:34put enough pressure
30:34on election commission
30:35so that at least
30:37you basically come
30:38out and cancel out
30:39the opportunity of
30:40meddling.
30:40All right.
30:41I mean, do that
30:41to do a glory to that
30:44but in the process
30:45you expose yourself
30:46through and through.
30:48Ten seconds and I
30:49need to close the
30:49show.
30:50And R.P.
30:50Singh will come to
30:51you for ten seconds.
30:52Anjali ji you wanted
30:53to come in for a
30:53counter, you have
30:53ten seconds ma'am.
30:54This is not a
30:55regular exercise that
30:57is happening in Bihar.
30:58This is not a
30:59regular administrative
31:00exercise and what
31:02people are saying
31:03is this is just
31:04before elections.
31:05R.P.
31:05Singh, this will
31:06disenfranchise people.
31:06Rajat ji, ten seconds
31:07each.
31:09Why would you give
31:09everybody, why
31:11wouldn't you give
31:12everybody time in that
31:13case?
31:13Okay, ten seconds
31:14each, Dr. Kumar
31:15and R.P. Singh.
31:17R.P. Singh, ten seconds.
31:18You've been doing this
31:18over and over again.
31:19And then me.
31:19Sorry?
31:20Are you telling me
31:21anything, Rajat Sethi?
31:22Over and over again.
31:23I'm telling you,
31:23Preeti ji.
31:24What are you saying?
31:25Last comment to
31:26everybody in that
31:27case.
31:27I am giving
31:28everyone.
31:28Did you not hear
31:29me?
31:29No, you did
31:30not.
31:30I had to intervene
31:31to make that
31:32happen.
31:33Rajat Sethi, I
31:34think you have a
31:34persecution complex,
31:36sir.
31:36Everyone is getting
31:37equal time.
31:38Time yourself.
31:40Time yourself,
31:41Rajat Sethi.
31:42Stop having a
31:43persecution complex
31:44about nothing.
31:45You've spoken
31:45ad nauseum twice.
31:47Everyone's getting
31:47final comments.
31:48You do that
31:49over and over again.
31:50Sir, I'm not
31:50here to fight
31:51with you.
31:51Can I get
31:52R.P. Singh
31:53final comments?
31:54Don't then.
31:56Can I get
31:56R.P. Singh
31:57make your
31:58final comments?
32:00R.P. Singh
32:00make your
32:01final comments,
32:01sir.
32:01Go ahead.
32:02Yeah, thank
32:03you.
32:03I thought
32:03there was
32:04someone from
32:05the other
32:06R.P. Singh
32:07was complete
32:07debate.
32:08No, sir.
32:09Apologies.
32:10Heat of the
32:10moment.
32:10R.P. Singh.
32:11I thought
32:12probably you
32:12brought
32:12R.P. Singh
32:13to debate.
32:13P.T., I
32:16just saw
32:17in the
32:17social media
32:18Anjali Bhardwaji
32:19is accused
32:20of some
32:20fraud.
32:22Prima facie.
32:23It's an
32:23allegation.
32:25It's an
32:25allegation.
32:26So, is
32:27that the
32:27way the
32:28system functions?
32:29I'm sorry,
32:29P.T., Anjali
32:30ji, that's
32:31not the
32:31way the
32:31system functions.
32:3322 lakh
32:33voters were
32:34deleted from
32:34Tenangana.
32:3522 lakh.
32:36You never
32:37asked a
32:37question on
32:37that.
32:38You never
32:39came and
32:39said, no,
32:40no, no,
32:40no.
32:40First, give
32:41us a list
32:41of the 22
32:42lakh voters
32:42which have
32:42been deleted.
32:435.41
32:45lakh voters
32:45were deleted
32:46from Hyderabad.
32:49Mr.
32:50Oysi still
32:50won the
32:51election.
32:51You never
32:52came there
32:52and said,
32:53oh,
32:53President,
32:53let's have
32:545.41
32:54The
32:54Telangana
32:55mantle is
32:56in the
32:56Supreme
32:57Court.
32:57Please
32:57inform
32:58yourself,
32:59Mr.
32:59Singh.
33:01Final
33:01comments,
33:02sir.
33:02Final
33:02comments.
33:03Dr.
33:03Kumar,
33:0420 seconds.
33:05Everybody
33:05gets 20
33:06seconds.
33:06Make
33:06your
33:06points.
33:07Sir,
33:07I'm
33:07sorry.
33:08I'm
33:08trying to
33:08clock it.
33:08My
33:09question is
33:09very
33:10simple.
33:11Whether it's
33:11Rajat or
33:11R.P.
33:12Singh,
33:12would you
33:13accept a
33:14country where
33:15the house
33:16address is
33:16zero?
33:16One sec,
33:17would you
33:18accept a
33:18country where
33:19the house
33:19address is
33:19zero?
33:20One sec.
33:20In
33:21thousands of
33:21places,
33:22would you
33:22accept a
33:22country where
33:23one room
33:24has got
33:24100
33:25voters?
33:26Would you
33:26accept a
33:26country where
33:27the
33:27house
33:27would you
33:28have
33:28been
33:29finished?
33:30R.P.
33:30Singh,
33:31sir,
33:31you just
33:32got 20
33:33seconds.
33:33Why are
33:33you talking?
33:34Please,
33:34allow everyone
33:35to get
33:35their 20
33:36seconds.
33:36Final
33:36minute.
33:37Do you
33:38have 10
33:38seconds,
33:39sir?
33:39Make
33:39your
33:39point.
33:40What do
33:40you want
33:40to say?
33:40Mr.
33:41Singh,
33:41make
33:41your
33:41point.
33:42Mr.
33:43Singh,
33:43what is
33:43it that
33:43you want
33:44to say?
33:44You're
33:45rewarding
33:45bad
33:46behavior.
33:46Sir,
33:47no,
33:47it's not
33:47rewarding
33:48bad.
33:48Let him
33:48finish what
33:49he has
33:49to say.
33:49Make
33:50your
33:50point.
33:51You
33:51are
33:52there,
33:53we all
33:56know
33:56that.
33:57But
33:57please,
33:57I also
33:58have a
33:58right
33:58as a
33:58possible
33:59Okay,
33:5910
33:59seconds.
34:00Dr.
34:00Kumar,
34:0010
34:01seconds.
34:01Final
34:02comments.
34:02Make
34:02your
34:02point.
34:03My
34:03only
34:03thing
34:04is,
34:04you
34:05want
34:05a
34:05better
34:05India,
34:06right?
34:06If
34:06her
34:07father's
34:07name
34:07is
34:07X,
34:08Y,
34:08X,
34:08Rajat,
34:09is that
34:09okay?
34:09No,
34:10question,
34:10Rajat,
34:11is that
34:11okay?
34:11You've
34:12got your
34:12time now.
34:13Okay,
34:13I want to,
34:14Anjali ji,
34:1410 seconds,
34:15make your
34:15point.
34:18Okay,
34:19you're
34:19done.
34:19Rajat
34:20Sethi,
34:20make your
34:21point,
34:21final
34:21comments.
34:22R.P.
34:23Singh,
34:23I'll
34:23come to
34:23you,
34:23sir.
34:24Let
34:24him
34:24make
34:24a
34:24special
34:24citizen.
34:24Nobody
34:25is a
34:25special
34:25citizen,
34:26neither
34:27is
34:27myself,
34:28nor
34:28you,
34:29nor
34:29Rahul
34:30Gandhi.
34:30Nobody
34:30is a
34:30special
34:31citizen.
34:31You need,
34:32if you
34:32have an
34:32objection
34:33on the
34:34upcoming
34:34elections,
34:35take the
34:36due course
34:36of action,
34:37file those
34:38applications.
34:39You know,
34:39follow the
34:40process.
34:40Doing this
34:40drama and
34:41obstructing the
34:42parliament is
34:42none of your
34:43business.
34:44You're not
34:44supposed to
34:44do that.
34:45As an
34:45honourable
34:46conscientious
34:46citizen,
34:47you should
34:47actually be
34:48following the
34:48process that
34:49is open
34:49for all
34:50citizens
34:50equally.
34:51If you
34:51do not
34:51have your
34:52bench,
34:52that is
34:52your
34:53problem.
34:53That's
34:53all the
34:54time that
34:54I have
34:55for now.
34:55R.P.
34:55Singhji,
34:56what was
34:56it that
34:56you were
34:57trying to
34:57say?
34:57You have
34:5710 seconds
34:58sir,
34:58make your
34:59point very
34:59quickly.
35:01Very,
35:02very simple
35:02Preeti.
35:03This all is
35:04hogwash.
35:05This is
35:05trying to
35:05cover up
35:06the future
35:07defeat.
35:08That's the
35:09only issue.
35:10Nothing
35:10more than
35:11that.
35:11With that,
35:11allow me to
35:12close this
35:12debate.
35:13Allow me
35:14to close
35:14this debate.
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