- 3 days ago
Phil Perry joined Toucher & Hardy to recap Patriots training camp, noting that Mike Vrabel's practices have been lighter than expected. The offense is still struggling in the red zone, mainly due to a lack of talent at receiver, though the offensive line looks improved with two rookies likely to start. On defense, Christian Gonzalez and Carlton Davis show promise, but health and effort are concerns. Perry also stressed that quarterback stats in camp need context to be meaningful.
Image courtesy of USA Today Network
Image courtesy of USA Today Network
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00:00Phil, how is camp so far for you? How are things different than last year?
00:05Camp for me is great. I always like this time of year.
00:08I'm able to learn a ton about the team that we're about to watch for this season.
00:12It is different. I would say in some respects, it's a little easier physically,
00:19which people might be surprised to hear because of, I think,
00:23just what is in people's minds eyes about Mayo and how he went about his job.
00:27But if you remember this time last year, I don't know if it was in some ways
00:32his response to being the guy after Belichick and not wanting to be labeled
00:37as sort of a softer coach, but they had a pretty hard camp.
00:41They were tackling to the ground at times, a lot of goal line stuff,
00:45full contact goal line stuff, which we still really haven't seen in this camp.
00:49And I'm not saying this camp has been easy, but you have seen guys like,
00:52whether it's Morgan Moses, he gets to kind of bounce in and out of practice
00:56when he and the team decide it's a good idea.
01:00Carlton Davis hasn't practiced at all, and Mike Vrabel has been saying essentially
01:03that that is maintenance.
01:05That to me is sort of just taking care of a veteran guy.
01:08At least that's how they're making it sound.
01:10So it has been a little bit different, much more competent, I would say,
01:14especially on the offensive side of the ball.
01:16That's the other big difference right now.
01:18Offensively, you wrote about there's been some issues in the red zone.
01:22Is this anything more than an offense still finding its way with some new personnel
01:28and everybody acclimating to Josh McDaniels, or is there something else going on?
01:36I think you have to start with the talent.
01:38I don't see a whole lot of people not knowing where to line up
01:42or people running the wrong routes or confusion at the line of scrimmage.
01:47That to me would be, okay, they just probably need another few weeks
01:51to get a grasp of this McDaniels offense.
01:54That to me has not been the issue when they have run into issues.
01:58The issues have been they're not creating a ton of separation,
02:01and they don't have a lot of guys on this roster right now
02:04that are just going to win in a one-on-one contested situation,
02:07which is a lot of what, for instance, the red zone is.
02:10That was a lot of yesterday, and they had a hard time.
02:12I was just going back through it.
02:13But, you know, Drake May started out one for six in competitive low red zone,
02:18so they were at the six-yard line and trying to move in, you know,
02:22one for his first six attempts.
02:24And he heated up a little bit at the end, and he ended up making a great connection
02:28with Kayshawn Booty, who's been one of the surprises of camp to me,
02:31but a great connection with Booty in the back corner of the end zone,
02:34sort of threw it off his back foot in the face of pressure,
02:36and Booty was able to make a beautiful toe-tapping kind of grab.
02:40But this, to me, is just sort of indicative of what the problem will be
02:44for this team this year, unless they're able to make a high-profile addition.
02:48I think they just, in terms of the talent, are going to have one of the bottom teams
02:54in the league when it comes to their weaponry and their pass catchers specifically.
02:57I think the running back room is pretty good, but in terms of their pass catchers,
03:00you stack them up against most other teams in the league,
03:03and there might be one or two, and that might be generous,
03:06that are worse than them in terms of their overall talent.
03:09So I think that's going to be an issue for them all season.
03:11Okay, so to follow up on that, how do you feel?
03:14The offensive line, to me, seems to be a very big problem.
03:17How do you feel about two rookies on the left side protecting your franchise quarterback?
03:21And kind of a follow-up, how has the pass protection been since camp started?
03:26I think it's been okay.
03:27And I think, you know, relative to the receiver room,
03:31if you're talking about, again, if you wanted to stack it up relative to the other 32 NFL teams,
03:36I think they would be significantly better on the line than they are with their pass catchers.
03:43I would rank them, you know, and who knows, right?
03:45The season hasn't even started yet.
03:47They might have two rookies starting, as you mentioned, John.
03:49But to me, they're so much better than they were there last year.
03:54You know, they're not elite, and they're not, I would say, even good.
03:57They're probably still below average, but they're not last in the league, which is where they were.
04:01Yeah, I think they could be functional.
04:03I think they could be, and even with the two rookies, you know.
04:08Jared Wilson, I said the other day, he had a little bit of a down day in terms of the one-on-ones.
04:13He wasn't quite as dominant as he was during one practice last week where he just stopped cold,
04:19both Christian Barmore, he actually did it to Barmore twice, and Milton Williams.
04:23So that's your two best interior defenders, and they couldn't budge Jared Wilson in the one-on-ones.
04:27Again, he was a little bit more lenient yesterday, and that's just going to be how it goes for rookie offensive linemen.
04:33But, you know, I think even if it's two rookies there, you're going to have upgrades at both left guard and left tackle.
04:40Campbell's been a little bit more up and down to me, and the surprising thing to me with him is, you know,
04:47I think he's a great athlete, you know, and his testing, his athletic testing would suggest as much.
04:51And you can see him sort of recover if he doesn't have a great start of a rep or start of a play against a certain defender.
04:59He does have this ability to move his feet and try to recover, and he has enough in the way of strength
05:03to be able to still sort of get the job done, even if it's not pretty.
05:06It does feel like there are some technique issues there, though, and one of the positives on Campbell coming out of college
05:15was that he was relatively refined, and so I think they're just going to have to work with him on that.
05:20They've got Doug Marone. He's a good offensive line coach.
05:22They've got, I think, three offensive line coaches total, so this is stuff that they should be able to help him improve on.
05:27But it just feels like he's off balance at times or lunging and sort of gets himself into some tough positions at different times,
05:34and you see him every once in a while lose a pass protection rep because of that.
05:37But I still think it's going to be a real upgrade, what he gives you at left tackle,
05:41even if he's not, you know, an all-pro out of the chutes, which I would never expect.
05:45Let's switch it up to the D, Philippi.
05:49Are you concerned at all about Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez?
05:53Where do they stand?
05:54Yeah, you know, I've been a little bit more patient with how they're handling Davis in particular,
06:00and Gonzalez I'm not worried about because we know what he is, and even Davis.
06:08He's got even, you know, more of a lengthy resume in terms of what he can give you,
06:13which is, to me, representative man-to-man coverage on a weekly basis.
06:18I thought when he was healthy, he was really important to the Lions last year and what they wanted to do.
06:22Yeah, when they were missing him, it was no good.
06:24Defensively, right.
06:25So, you know, for a team that is, in my opinion, going to want to play a lot of man-to-man,
06:30you know, those two guys should be, in some ways, kind of the engine of your defense.
06:33And that might be sort of a reversal from what, you know, the old football cliche is,
06:38where everything starts in the trenches, and they should have some help there, too.
06:41But if you have two guys who can really, you know, lock down a number one and a number two,
06:46respectively, in those two guys, that's going to go a long way in terms of helping them win football games.
06:51So the concern, for me, would be more with Davis just because of his age and because he has missed time.
06:57Yeah, he gets hurt a lot.
06:59Last several years, Fred, right?
07:00It's been like four or five games.
07:02You can almost bank on it every year.
07:04And I think that might be part of the reason why they're handling him the way they're handling him.
07:07Okay, let's take it easy on this guy in July and early August,
07:10and let's slowly ramp up and get him ready for week one so that maybe he can sustain a little bit better than he has in years past.
07:17But that would be the real concern for me.
07:20You know, at corner, I just think, and maybe I am mistaken in believing this,
07:26it's just it's not one of those incredibly physical positions, obviously,
07:30where you kind of need to build up those calluses, quote-unquote,
07:33that football coaches like to talk about for linemen and linebackers and running backs.
07:37Like, you have to get used to getting hit.
07:39At corner, I understand that's part of the job.
07:41It's not the job, though.
07:42And so, like, if they miss a joint practice or a couple preseason games,
07:46that's not the end of the world to me as long as they're healthy when the season starts.
07:50Well, if you're Sauce Gardner, you can make a tremendous amount of money just not tackling.
07:54That's right.
07:55That's right.
07:56Arm tackling.
07:57And that's even a stretch.
07:59And I think you have to worry.
08:00Honestly, Fred, I think you have to worry about that a little bit.
08:03If you're Vrabel and the coaching staff, that somebody like Christian Gonzalez,
08:07who hasn't yet gotten that payday, sees that performance last year,
08:11and that was by far his worst year of the three years he's been in the NFL,
08:15and he was not sacrificing the body.
08:18It felt like there were a series of business decisions getting made there,
08:20and you've got to make it known to Gonzalez, hey, we still need you to do all this other stuff.
08:26Trust us.
08:26You'll get paid.
08:27But you do need to tackle every month's month.
08:29Yeah, so if you don't know what Phil Perry's talking about, I'm impressed
08:32because he's watched Sauce Gardner.
08:34Sauce Gardner last season was not tackling.
08:37And that's an exaggeration.
08:39You don't know what you're talking about.
08:40Phil will attest he was literally not tackling.
08:42Like, he would stay in a standing position, kind of ole, and then, like, grab with hands.
08:50Like, even an idiot like me is like, what's going on?
08:53So hopefully now that he's paid, maybe that stops.
08:56And finally, you know, you talk about red zone performance.
09:01You talk about quarterbacks.
09:02There's this kind of backlash now against the narrative of quarterbacks' statistical performance in practice.
09:10And the way this is presented, Phil, is that, you know, mistakes are to be made in practice.
09:16They're practicing things almost deliberately so the quarterback will make mistakes
09:20so they can kind of learn from them.
09:22They're doing high-danger plays, maybe, and stuff like that.
09:27Do you buy into that, or is that something that you're kind of 50-50 on?
09:30How do you judge quarterback statistics in the preseason?
09:34Yeah, I don't think you can just look at them and look at the numbers
09:38and look at a completion percentage and say good or bad, right?
09:41I do think it's valuable to keep those numbers
09:44and to present them to people that don't have an opportunity to watch these practices.
09:49It's a weird time of year in that we get as much information as we'll ever get all season
09:55by being able to watch these full practices in terms of what's going on behind the scenes.
10:00And yet the fans, for the most part, it's obviously free to show up
10:04and you can watch if you have the time to do it.
10:06But for the most part, fans are completely in the dark.
10:09So for me, more information is better as long as it comes with context.
10:15So when we're talking about it on the radio or on our podcast or on our TV shows,
10:20we're careful to point out, okay, today was a red zone heavy day.
10:23What happens in the red zone?
10:24It tends to be more condensed spaces and tighter windows
10:26and completion percentages across the board in the regular season, preseason, what have you,
10:31are going to be a little bit lower in the red zone.
10:33So now you know, okay, he went, you know, 57% yesterday is what I had Drake May out.
10:38And that was a combination of two minute and red zone.
10:41And you got some third downs mixed in there where you're going to see more exotic looks
10:45in the way of pass rush and games at the line of scrimmage
10:47that maybe the offensive line hasn't seen all summer.
10:50So, you know, I think it's okay to keep the stats.
10:53I understand, you know, you've got the gatekeepers out there
10:55and the former players out there who say, what are you doing?
10:57Because, you know, they don't want to be criticized.
10:59And I get that too.
11:00But I think as long as you're providing some context,
11:03then, you know, we can all be adults about it and sort of take it for what it is.
11:06Well, people, I mean, I'm interested in it.
11:07Certainly people are interested in it.
11:09People are ready for football to start.
11:10And this is a good appetizer.
11:11Phil Perry, we look forward to having you in studio once a week.
11:14Look forward to talking to you soon.
11:16Thank you so much, Phil, from NBC Sports Boston.
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