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00:00He stole her. The president said those three words today aboard Air Force One on the way back from golfing in Scotland. That's a matter of fact. He stole her. What he meant by those words is open to interpretation. And because the he refers to his former friend, sex predator Jeffrey Epstein, and the her is one of many underage women Epstein allegedly victimized, the president's words today also invite scrutiny. They're part of his new explanation for why he broke off a long and some say
00:29warm friendship with Epstein, which the president first rolled out yesterday. He did it with Britain's prime minister right next to him, sitting expressionless while he weighed in on the sex offender he wishes people would stop talking about so much. And Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's accomplice in the recruiting, grooming and trafficking of underage young women as virtual sex slaves, an obscene number of them. Three weeks ago yesterday in the memo that touched off this current uproar, the Justice Department estimated the number of Epstein's victims at more than a thousand.
00:59Keep that in mind as you listen to the president. I wouldn't talk because he did something that was inappropriate.
01:06The question that of course raised is what was inappropriate? Did then citizen Trump, for example, get wind of Epstein's inappropriate contact with minors? After all, he did tell New York magazine back in 2002, quote, it is even said he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side.
01:24Is that the kind of inappropriate? He means because that would certainly put someone beyond the pale for most people. Actually, no. Was it that he merely came to believe that his old pal was, quote, being a creep as a White House statement phrased last week?
01:40Because, again, it would be totally understandable for anyone to be put off by even a hint of that. Except, no.
01:47It wasn't that kind of inappropriate either by the president's lights, not even the kind of inappropriate we were previously led to believe caused the falling out, namely, Epstein outbidding him for a piece of Palm Beach property, which might be considered beyond the pale in some circles.
02:02But it wasn't that either. No. Here is why the president said he broke it off with the creepy, possibly property poaching, sex offending victimizer of allegedly more than a thousand human beings.
02:16He hired help. And I said, don't ever do that again. He stole people that work for me. I said, don't ever do that again. He did it again. And I threw him out of the place.
02:27So the truth is, according to the president, Jeffrey Epstein poached employees, a well-known bridge too far for any sex offender. The president, though, left out the sex offender part. And he did the same today, even when prompted.
02:42You said yesterday your falling out with Jeffrey Epstein was over him taking some of the workers from your business. But your administration in the past, you threw him out because he was a creep. So can you explain that discrepancy?
02:53The same thing, you know, sort of a little bit of the same thing. But no, he took people that worked for me and I told him, don't do it anymore. And he did it. And I said, stay the hell out of here.
03:04Again, the president could have mentioned something about why he considered Jeffrey Epstein a creep, perhaps even the crimes he pleaded guilty to and the many more he was charged with before he died.
03:14He might have said a word or two about the role his accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell played. She is now appealing her conviction for her role in Epstein's crimes, especially when, as you'll hear in this next extended clip, one of those victims may have been a then underage Trump spa attendant named Virginia Roberts, later Jeffrey.
03:33She said she was recruited by Maxwell, then forced by her and Epstein to have sex with a series of famous men, including, she said, Britain's Prince Andrew, which he denies.
03:43In 2021, the two settled her civil lawsuit against him in the matter out of court.
03:48Mr. Frey died by suicide in April. The president did not mention that today.
03:53Epstein has a certain reputation, obviously. Just curious, were some of the workers that were taken from you, were some of them young women?
04:01Mr. Well, I don't want to say, but everyone knows the people that were taken. And it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad.
04:16But that story has been pretty well out there. And the answer is yes, they were.
04:21Yes, they were young women?
04:22Mr. What did they do?
04:23Mr. In the spa.
04:23In the spa?
04:24Mr. Yeah, people that work in the spa. I have a great spa, one of the best spas in the world at Mar-a-Lago.
04:29And people were taken out of the spa, hired by him. In other words, gone. And other people would come and complain, this guy is taking people from the spa. I didn't know that.
04:42And then when I heard about it, I told him, I said, listen, we don't want you taking our people, whether it was spa or not spa. I don't want him taking people.
04:50And he was fine. And then not too long after that, he did it again. And I said, out of here.
04:57Mr. President, did one of those stolen, you know, persons that include Virginia referee?
05:04Uh, I don't know. I think she worked at the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people, yeah. He stole her. And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know, whatsoever.
05:19There is that sentence, he stole her, which, if it doesn't say enough already, also speaks loudly by omission. He says nothing about what happened to her, only what happened to him.
05:31To the president's way of thinking, if his words had been believed, that was Jeffrey Epstein's cardinal sin, taking something, in this case, a human being who belonged to him. He stole her.
05:42Now, setting that aside for a moment, this new justification for the breakup raises questions as well about the timeline for this all.
05:48Jaffray fell into Epstein's orbit in 2000. Yet two years later, in that New York magazine piece in which he talked about Epstein liking young women, the president also called him a terrific guy and a lot of fun to be with.
05:59A year after that, he was, according to Wall Street Journal, sending Epstein 50th birthday wishes, running again, according to the journal.
06:07A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret.
06:11The president both denies sending that and is suing the paper over its reporting.
06:15Another year later, in 2004, the two battled over a piece of real estate and reportedly broke ties after that, with no word until yesterday of this new explanation for the falling out.
06:26And continuing silence about what his old friend did to anyone not named Donald Trump.
06:32Meantime, Ghislaine Maxwell is now offering to cooperate and testify before Congress, but with major conditions, including immunity.
06:40That's according to a list of her demands sent to the House Oversight Committee by her attorneys.
06:44A committee spokesperson today rejected the idea of giving Maxwell immunity.
06:48My next guest is a trauma therapist certified in domestic and sexual violence who has worked with a number of Jeffrey Epstein's victims over the years from both the Florida and New York cases,
06:58starting when they were as young as 18 years old and in some cases continuing to this day.
07:03Randy Kogan joins me now.
07:05Randy, nice to see you.
07:06How have your clients been holding up with the Epstein story once again being so prominent in the news?
07:12They're feeling violated again.
07:15They're feeling re-victimized again.
07:17They are not given the opportunity to heal in private.
07:22Everywhere they look, it's on their phone, whether it's a headline, whether it's social media, and they feel like there's nowhere to escape.
07:31They can't find peace to heal.
07:33What was your reaction to the president's comments today suggesting that Epstein, quote, stole employees from him?
07:40He was specifically asked about Virginia Gouffre, a young woman and sex trafficking victim of Epstein's who died by suicide earlier this year.
07:47Virginia Gouffre's death really hit a number of the survivors hard because she represented a voice that they didn't have at the time.
07:56So it was quite impactful when Virginia took her life.
08:00As time went on, they felt like they're being constantly re-victimized over and over again when people are having these conversations that don't revolve around justice because they don't see how this is justice, how Epstein is back in the news again.
08:19What is it all for?
08:20And how does it help them?
08:23Nobody is humanizing these survivors.
08:25And they're constantly suffering emotionally, mentally, every time he is brought up again.
08:33How devastating would it be for your patients if Ghislaine Maxwell were to be given a pardon or some kind of other deal?
08:41It would be emotionally, it would emotionally destroy them.
08:45One of my clients today, she's a survivor, and she said, if Ghislaine Maxwell gets out and is given immunity, I have no more faith.
08:55I have no more faith.
08:57You talked about the failure to humanize the victims.
09:01When you hear language like the president today saying he stole employees, he stole her.
09:09Virginia Giuffre is one of the employees that President Trump said Epstein stole from him.
09:14Is that the kind of language you're talking about?
09:17That's exactly the kind of language I'm talking about.
09:19It dehumanizes these women.
09:21They have been trying to heal for 18 years, and every time they're on the road to recovery, something new comes out in the news.
09:31Something new, a meme in social media, a skit on a TV show, or a stand-up comedian bringing up Epstein.
09:39It's everywhere.
09:40So when they hear the fact that they're not being humanized even by the president, they feel defeated.
09:49The saga has obviously been playing out, really, for decades and decades.
09:54There's the initial arrest of Epstein, the sweetheart deal in Florida, the prosecution in New York, the suicide, the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.
10:03What's the whole experience been like for your patients?
10:06It's been a very rocky road.
10:08They are trying so hard to pick up the pieces from the beginning, and every time they feel they've gotten somewhere, they get hit again.
10:17And that's what it feels like.
10:18It feels like a hit.
10:19When Virginia Goufri passed away, that was very difficult for them.
10:25They questioned, is this their path?
10:28Is this what happens when you speak out, when you use your voice?
10:31So it really impacted them greatly.
10:34And then after that, Epstein was all over the news again.
10:37So it's been, they have no opportunity to heal in private.
10:40And it's not fair.
10:43They're human beings.
10:45They are women who are trying to put their lives together and move on past this victimization, and nobody's letting them.
10:53I hope people remember that.
10:55Randy Cogan, we appreciate your time tonight.
10:57Thank you for what you do, and thanks for being with us.
11:12People think that you want to do something else.
