Kemi_Badenoch_describes_scenes_in_Gaza_as__heartbreaking__but_stays_firm_in_support_for_Israel(360p) - video Dailymotion

Saad Ghouri

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00:00First, let's get a view from the Conservative leader,

00:03Camille Baden-Elk, who joins us now.

00:06Let's start with Bob Geldof.

00:10What's your reaction to his accusation

00:12that the Israeli authorities have been lying

00:15about the situation in Gaza?

00:17I disagree with that.

00:19What I'm seeing is Israel allowing humanitarian aid to go in.

00:24This has been an unbelievably difficult situation.

00:26It's been heartbreaking seeing some of the pictures,

00:30hearing those stories, and what we all want to see

00:33is this awful war coming to an end,

00:36and that will happen when those hostages are released.

00:39We need a ceasefire.

00:40You refer to the pictures that we're seeing.

00:43Have those pictures at all led you,

00:48your pretty much unwavering support for Israel to waver at all?

00:53No, no. War is a difficult situation.

00:56And what I see when I see Israel is a country

00:59that's trying to defend itself,

01:01mostly from Iran and a lot of its proxies,

01:04Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis,

01:07and I think they're in a very difficult situation.

01:10And what worries me is that the length of time

01:14that this war has been going on

01:15is making it very difficult for the people

01:18in the Palestinian territories and also for Israel.

01:20We need to bring things to an end.

01:21Well, I mean, you are unusual in political leaders

01:28in that you've lived in a country that's experienced real war.

01:32So when you say war is a difficult thing, I respect that.

01:35It's an understatement, yes.

01:36Yeah, it's a big statement.

01:39But is that quite enough of a reaction

01:44to what we've been seeing this week,

01:46starving babies and so on?

01:47And if I can just, if we can call it up again,

01:50from the Sunday Times polling this morning,

01:53it feels as though the country is moving away

01:56from Israel and its supporters

01:59because of what we're seeing.

02:01That's very likely the case,

02:05but I'm somebody who believes in

02:07looking at what's actually happening,

02:09what are the facts,

02:09and how do we make sure

02:10we are always doing the right thing?

02:13The right thing is for there to be a ceasefire.

02:15A lot of people are suffering on both sides,

02:17but we mustn't forget how this started.

02:20On October 7th, a massacre occurred.

02:23It was an act of war.

02:24There are still people who are being held hostage

02:26and they need to be brought home.

02:28All of this could be brought to an end,

02:30except that those territories are being run

02:32by a terrorist organisation.

02:35We cannot allow a terrorist organisation to win.

02:36Well, Gaza's not exactly being run by anybody else

02:39except the Israeli Defence Force right now, isn't it?

02:42I mean, the point is, to what extent...

02:45If that was the case, Trevor,

02:46then the hostages would be home by now.

02:49I don't think that what we should be doing

02:51is pretending that Israel runs Gaza.

02:53Are you saying they have no responsibility

02:55for what we're seeing?

02:56Of course they have a responsibility

02:58to make sure that aid gets through.

03:00And I think that when we see all those pictures

03:02of the people who are starving,

03:04of the people who are suffering,

03:05it brings home just how quickly we need to end all of this.

03:09That's what we want to see.

03:10But I also know that allowing a terrorist organisation

03:14to win is not going to be safe,

03:16not just for Israel, but for the rest of the world.

03:19This is how they get incubated.

03:20And then 10, 15, 20 years' time,

03:23the rest of us suffer for it.

03:24We need to bring this sort of terrorism to an end.

03:26All right, let's talk about some of the issues

03:28that are going to confront the country this week.

03:31Immediately, I suspect many people will be thinking

03:33about the effect of the doctors' strike.

03:37Have you got a message for the BMA this morning?

03:39Yes.

03:40Yes, we need to bring this sort of strike action

03:43by doctors to an end.

03:46And the Conservative Party is happy to work with Labour

03:48in the national interest versus the BMA,

03:52which has become increasingly militant.

03:54We need to introduce minimum service levels.

03:57That's something that we brought in when we were in government.

03:59I did that as business secretary.

04:01Labour's scrapping that.

04:02But this is the 11th strike that we're seeing since 2023.

04:07Junior doctors have had a 28% pay rise,

04:10resident doctors, as they're called now.

04:12We need to start being realistic, living within our means.

04:16When you say work with the government,

04:17what would that constitute?

04:18Well, at the moment, what we see is a government

04:21that is afraid to take on the BMA.

04:25I remember when West Street...

04:26Oh, they've been pretty...

04:26They've been pretty clear with the BMA.

04:28They said, you're not going to get any more money.

04:31Well...

04:31But they...

04:31The Secretary's state couldn't be clearer.

04:33But they can't negotiate.

04:34Last year, West Street said,

04:35well, we're going to sit around the negotiating table,

04:37we'll sort this out.

04:38The Conservatives couldn't do that.

04:40They gave away...

04:40If I may, Trevor, they gave away all of their hand.

04:46They didn't get anything in return.

04:48No reforms.

04:49And actually, what we need to look at is who suffers.

04:52The last set of strikes meant that patients died.

04:55People die when these strikes happen.

04:57It's not a joke.

04:58And I don't think that Labour know how to negotiate.

05:01We're prepared to work with them to bring in legislation.

05:04Hang about...

05:04We're prepared to work with them to stop this sort of...

05:06Hang about.

05:07Last set of strikes under your government.

05:10Mm-hm.

05:11They can't...

05:12Strikes, doctors, train drivers and so on.

05:15Mm-hm.

05:16Labour can't negotiate.

05:18You couldn't negotiate your way out of any of those strikes.

05:20We didn't give away 28% inflation-busting pay rise.

05:24But you didn't stop the strikes.

05:27The first thing they did...

05:27Well, neither have they.

05:28But at least we didn't pay billions for it.

05:30The strikes between 2023 and 2024 cost the NHS

05:34about £1.5 billion.

05:36That's taxpayers' money.

05:37There are people who have operations that are delayed.

05:39There are people who died.

05:41This set of strikes in 2025 is set to cost £370 million.

05:45And what we do know, Trevor,

05:47is that this government doesn't have any money.

05:49They're losing money.

05:50They're taxing people more.

05:52Everyone's suffering.

05:52And they promised that they would tread lightly.

05:54What we need to see is less of a burden

05:56on the lives of all of your viewers who just want to get on.

06:00We started this bit of our conversation with you saying

06:02you're prepared to work with government to help end the strikes.

06:05And what you've done for the last three minutes is slag them off.

06:08That's because you asked me the question.

06:10I answered your question.

06:11We're prepared to work with them,

06:12but that doesn't mean I'm not going to point out what they did wrong.

06:15OK.

06:16All right.

06:16Look, Mr Trump's in the United Kingdom.

06:18Are you going to meet him?

06:19No, I'm not meeting him now.

06:20I'm meeting him in September.

06:22OK.

06:22This is not an official visit.

06:24OK.

06:24Oh, you're going to meet him when he comes?

06:25In September, yes.

06:27What do you think the Prime Minister's agenda should be?

06:29Well, let's actually take something specific.

06:32Mr Trump says we should copy his policies on immigration,

06:35deploy troops at the border, cancel offers of settlement.

06:38Do you agree with that?

06:39Cancel what settlement?

06:40Cancel offers of settlement to...

06:43He cancelled, I think, 10,000 offers of settlement to asylum seekers.

06:49..at the border...

06:51I see.

06:52..on day one.

06:53Do you think that's the kind of action we should be taking?

06:55Well, we have pretty robust policies.

06:58We had a deportation bill that had very, very significant measures,

07:03making sure that people who commit crimes in our country

07:06are deported if they're foreign, all foreign criminals.

07:09And if you're in the middle of an asylum claim

07:11and you commit a crime, you're immediately deported.

07:14That deportation bill had very serious measures

07:17disapplying the Human Rights Act.

07:19I'm asking you what we should do now.

07:20Yeah, but that is what we should do now.

07:22That is what we should do now.

07:23We should be deporting people.

07:24We do need to.

07:25It's all too slow.

07:27And I'm not saying that things were perfect

07:28under the Conservative government,

07:29but they're getting worse under Labour.

07:31I think you deported very many people, actually.

07:33This Labour government deported more than you did.

07:36By quite a distance.

07:38But they're talking about a different cohort of people.

07:40What we're talking about is the small boats crossings,

07:43which have increased 42% since Labour came in.

07:46That is not where the deportations are happening.

07:48They're carrying out the easy deportations,

07:50not the difficult ones.

07:51So I think we need to make sure

07:53that we have a very robust migration crossing.

07:55On the small boats thing...

07:56Migration is too high right now.

07:57On the small boats crossing, what do you think?

07:59Royal Navy in the Channel?

08:01Turn back the boat?

08:02What we need to do is make sure that we are enforcing.

08:05We need a deterrent as well.

08:07What we had last year was the Rwanda plan,

08:10which never quite got off the ground.

08:12Before we get to Rwanda, what about the Royal Navy?

08:15A third country deterrent would mean

08:16that people wouldn't even be coming here in the first place

08:18because they would know that they'd be going to Rwanda.

08:21I asked you about the Royal Navy in the Channel.

08:23Should the Royal Navy be deployed in the Channel

08:25to turn back these boats?

08:26The Royal Navy should do whatever it can within its remit.

08:29But if you speak to them,

08:30they will say that a lot of the things

08:31that they're being asked to do

08:32are not things that they could do.

08:33I don't know whether to translate that as yes or no.

08:36Because it's not a yes or no question.

08:37You're asking me for an opinion.

08:39Well, either they should be deployed, they shouldn't.

08:41Well, people need to understand what they can do and why.

08:44And what I'm saying is that we need to make sure

08:46that people don't get here in the first place.

08:48We have a returns agreement with France.

08:50It doesn't quite work.

08:51It wouldn't matter if the Royal Navy was taking them back,

08:54if France just allowed them to come back here again,

08:56which is what we're seeing.

08:57What we need is a third country deterrent

08:59where people are processed elsewhere.

09:01That's where the Royal Navy can help and get involved.

09:03OK, what about El Salvador?

09:05That's the other suggestion this week.

09:06Send them to El Salvador.

09:07Why?

09:09Why not?

09:10Well, this is the thing.

09:11We had a very, very detailed plan for Rwanda.

09:16There are no plans at the moment for El Salvador.

09:18Just throwing countries' names out there

09:19without plans is not what we do.

09:21We make sure that we have a detailed policy

09:23and explain how we're going to do it.

09:25That is not what Labour is doing.

09:27They're completely at sea.

09:29We look around the country, seeing protests

09:30in places like Epping, around migrant hotels.

09:33We need to deal with this.

09:34They don't have a plan to deal with anything.

09:36Sorry, I'm only hustling you

09:37because I think you should have the chance

09:39to say something about the unrest in Epping

09:43and elsewhere over asylum hotels.

09:45Do you agree with your colleague, Neil Hudson,

09:47that that hotel should be closed immediately?

09:50And if you do, where should those men be put?

09:54Yes, I do agree with Neil Hudson.

09:56This is something that I, as an Essex MP,

09:58have also stated.

09:59I gave an interview earlier this week where I said that.

10:01Those people who are protesting are having legitimate protests.

10:05Lots of agitators are coming and trying to whip them up,

10:08but they are explaining that what's happening

10:10in their community is not right.

10:11We saw someone from that hotel commit a crime.

10:15What we need to do is make sure

10:16that we process these applications quickly

10:18and try and make sure that we don't have so many

10:21coming here in the first place.

10:23That's why that third country deterrence is so important.

10:26You need a joined-up plan.

10:28We're talking about the end of the problem

10:29rather than the beginning.

10:30Let's start with the beginning of the issue.

10:32Just a very quick...

10:32Just how people get here in the first place.

10:34Just a very quick last question.

10:35You told the National News Paper this week

10:36that your model for economic success

10:38is the Argentine leader, Javier Millet,

10:41who famously said he'd take a chainsaw to public spending

10:44and then cut it by 30% inside a year.

10:46Have you got a chainsaw?

10:47We need to live within our means, Trevor.

10:50We've been having a long debate about welfare.

10:52I know that.

10:52Are you going to bring out your chainsaw?

10:54No, I wouldn't literally use a chainsaw.

10:56But it was a very, very visual story that he told

11:00about making sure that Argentina lived within its means.

11:04We're a different country.

11:04We have a different set-up.

11:06But we need to start thinking about the next generation.

11:09We are borrowing our children's money to pay for today,

11:13to pay for welfare.

11:14We're paying £100 billion on debt interest.

11:16That's just not fair.

11:17OK, it's very disappointing.

11:18I like a leader who knows power tools.

11:20You like to get a chainsaw.

11:21I thought I like power tools.

11:24Kemi, thank you for your time this morning.

11:26Thank you, Trevor.

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