- 2 days ago
The sudden resignation of Vice President Jagdeep Dhankhar has sparked intense speculation about whether it was due to health concerns as cited or was there more to it than meets the eye.
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00:01So let's dive even deeper into the controversy. Was Dhankar's resignation voluntary or was he simply eased out? Was this some kind of a hit job on him? Is health a cover for the real reason? Is the resignation Rao an embarrassment for the Modi government? Who will be the next vice president?
00:20I want to be joined by Ashutosh, journalist, politician, now political analyst, tracks the BJP RSS closely. Rajat Sethi, political commentator, has worked closely with the BJP. Anilesh Mahajan, deputy editor India Today, covers the BJP RSS for us. Let's go to each of them to find out Andar ki khabar. Ashutosh, you first, because you've been stirring it up. I saw you on Aajtak claiming that this is a fight within the BJP and Dhankar has become a fall guy.
00:47Let's be honest, does anybody really know, except for Modi Shah, what happens in this government?
00:54See, Rajdeep, as I told to Aajtak yesterday only, that three, four days back, I was meeting with someone who was important enough. And I was told then that Mr. Dhankar was very, very upset with the behavior of a few leaders in the party. And one of the leaders had really insulted him. That's what he felt. And his ego was very, very bruised.
01:16And I could say that he was literally in tears. That's what I was communicated and conveyed. The issue was, I was really surprised at what has happened.
01:26Because Mr. Dhankar has always been very kind to the government and he was doing what was required from him, asked to do it.
01:33So, what was the reason that why he felt so insulted as somebody had really scolded him, as somebody had really told him to do, to not to do something or ask him to do something which he didn't want to do?
01:46No, you're claiming someone insulted Jagdeep Dhankar within the government. Jagdeep Dhankar has always batted for this government.
01:55That's what I was told. That's what I was told. I didn't want to name my source, but I was very confident that this has exactly happened with him.
02:03And I'm very confident about it. There's no two opinions about it. But I thought it might be having some small incident somewhere else.
02:14But yesterday when I got to know that he has resigned and I connected the doc, I could feel that something must have been festering for a very, very long time.
02:22So, you're saying he was forced out?
02:24You're saying he was forced out?
02:26I think so. I think so. I think so. Because for the simple reason, if he was so upset and he felt so insulted, so intimidated, then obviously he had all the reasons to resign.
02:40But then he chose not to resign before the parliament session began. He chose to resign in the parliament on a very first day itself, conducted throughout, let Mallika Arjun Khadgej say whatever he wanted to say.
02:53And then by late night, he resigned. So, something has happened between 4.30 and 9.00. Either he was asked to resign or created a situation where he had no other option than to resign.
03:03So, I feel that probably he was asked to resign and he was left with no option than to resign.
03:12Rajat Sethi, what's your sense? Remember, as I keep saying and prefacing this, nobody really knows what happens in this government except the big two.
03:19Do you go along with what Ashutosh says that Jagdeep Dhankar was forced to resign or a situation was created where he had no option but to resign?
03:29See, I don't think, Rajat Sethi, there is any end to what these so-called sources, quote-unquote sources, are talking since the past 24 hours.
03:42But a lot of sources apparently, and none of that which can be quoted or corroborated, have been talking about, you know, the plausible reasons behind this resignation.
03:51One thing is sure that Prime Minister's tweet was TERF's. And that's the only sort of dot. And if you want to create a story out of that dot, it's up to you.
04:01But I believe that it was something where, you know, either the relationship would have gone bad.
04:06And it's just like a cricketing analogy. It's a five-day test match, but even a session going wrong goes wrong.
04:11It can affect the overall, you know, momentum.
04:16But what went wrong? No, no, what went wrong? You see, the question is what, you know, the general speculation is Mr. Dhankar was taking a very aggressive stand on the judiciary.
04:25And that had become an embarrassment for the government. The government did not want this tug-of war to go beyond the point.
04:32And Mr. Dhankar was determined to take on the judiciary. Do you believe in that line of thinking, Rajat?
04:38So, you know, you have to contextualize what the previous vice president was doing with the fact that even certain questions, 12 to 13 questions, were referred by the Honorable President to the Supreme Court to conder over.
04:55And those are absolutely fundamental questions.
04:57I believe this entire conversations of conflict, public conflict started when the Honorable Supreme Court made this assertion that there is a time-bound manner in which the president can or the governor can give a comment on a ruling or a state assembly's law, which has been promulgated by the assembly.
05:18That in itself was an overreach.
05:19And I believe very pertinent, very deeply constitutionally pertinent questions were raised.
05:24And I believe ever since that, it was the vice president, Dhankar, who has been questioning those things, that there has to be checks and balances on the judiciary.
05:32And the three wings, the legislature, executive and judiciary, have to work in tandem.
05:36It cannot be that one institution is judge, you know, executioner and everything in one right, all big in one.
05:43And he kept saying this.
05:44I don't, intellectually, I don't find it problematic.
05:46And I don't see BJP having issue with that.
05:50I think it's more around certain other things.
05:52It could also be triggered around the fact that while Lok Sabha had already taken the matter of Justice Verma's case, why would, on the same day, would Rajya Sabha also go out and take it?
06:06See, BJP wants to run a tight ship in terms of narrative and everything.
06:11Any kind of a slippage is something that Prime Minister doesn't like.
06:14He wants to ensure that everything is prim and proper and followed through the set of basic expectations that is there from public offices.
06:23We should also understand that the head of the executive is the Prime Minister.
06:26And of course, there are constitutional positions of the president and the vice president, which have to largely follow the line that the cabinet is asserting.
06:34That's how our framers of the constitution have framed it.
06:37There is very little, extremely little leeway that is left for the vice president and the presidential office in our country.
06:44That's the state of affairs.
06:45If you want to go out and question the making, the working of the government, you are already on a slippery track, in my opinion.
06:53Okay.
06:54So, Mr. Dhankar, in a way, had, some believe, decided to go out on a limb in taking on the judiciary.
07:00Anilesh, your view, you have the inside track, is this linked to some kind of power play?
07:08What was Dhankar, how did Dhankar suddenly become adversarial to a government that he was always praising all the time?
07:16Well, I think the little we could gather, you know, we all are trying to join the dots which are available in the public domain and try to build a story around it.
07:28Whereas all the stakeholders which had played a part in building up the story are silent.
07:35So, whatever…
07:35No, why are they silent?
07:36Tell me, Anilesh, why are they silent?
07:38And if the government, you know, Dhankar doesn't get a farewell, there is no…
07:42Even the Prime Minister's message is very terse, I wish him good health, but nothing more beyond that.
07:47Suddenly, the government doesn't want to talk about Jagdeep Dhankar.
07:50Why?
07:51See, see, Rajdeep, we all have to understand that BGP is going through a lot of churn, you know.
07:57They have to select a new president.
07:59Then they also have to resolve what is happening in Uttar Pradesh.
08:02And suddenly you see that, and cabinet reshuffle is also on, probably on cards.
08:07And suddenly you see that, you know, Vice President resigns, and which they were not expecting.
08:13And they may have been contemplating that he may react or, you know, there would be some delays in meetings.
08:20But they had not anticipated that, you know…
08:24No, you're making an important point.
08:25You're claiming, contrary to what many others, you're saying this government did not anticipate Mr. Dhankar would resign so abruptly.
08:33Am I right?
08:33Yes, absolutely.
08:34You just see, you know, BGP is very, very neat and tidy when they, you know, decide on who to get which position and what sort of caste equation, regional equation you build.
08:46And suddenly, you know, very important constitutional position becomes wicked.
08:50Now you have to rethink, you know, you have to rethink, you know, the whole equation.
08:56And now you have to bring in some senior leader with a repute at this position that BGP had not anticipated.
09:03Very interesting.
09:04Very interesting what you're saying.
09:06Yes, I can tell you, you know, from an authority that people told me since morning that they had not anticipated that this type of reaction would come from Mr. Dhankar.
09:17Okay, so maybe…
09:18See, we also have to see Mr. Dhankar was part of schemes, you know, not only while joining the office of a vice president, but also when he was governor.
09:29And before that, you know, he was very crucial part when he, you know, played a very crucial role in resolving the Ram Jalbhumi issue.
09:38So, he was part of scheme of things.
09:40So, he was not somebody who was an outsider.
09:43He had good equation with top leaders in RSS.
09:46Sometimes he also played role in, you know, bridging things.
09:49So, his reaction, nobody had anticipated.
09:53Interesting.
09:54Reaction no one had anticipated that runs contrary to what Ashutosh seems to suggest.
09:58But I just want to play what Jagdeep Dhankar said on the farmer issue, because one of the issues, along with the judiciary that Mr. Dhankar was pushing, was the issue of the need to address farmers' concerns.
10:10He's a jat, remember, and the jat farmers were the one who had led the farmers' agitation.
10:16And he said this in front of Shivrat Singh Chauhan, the agriculture minister.
10:21Listen in.
10:21Can we create a boundary between the farmer and the government?
10:50We zwischen theר Sachen, which is multiplied, chicos ofいたlishedимся.
10:54I remember them from each we sheets of the euro.
10:57Why did this not happen?
11:00Why did this mark us not?
11:01When it came to the river and the enemy of Kitschikil need a Kitschikil?
11:05I remember Gerda RSS,
11:09where was their 클�我就 that the village was pushed towards dall'
11:13to the village to what to the council?
11:15How do they needed this moment?
11:17For this jemand that even took care in the villageu,
11:19Ashutosh, here you have Mr. Dhankar sort of taking on, if I may use the word, Shivrat Singh Chauhan on the farmer's issue.
11:34Do you believe, as Anilaj says, that look, Mr. Dhankar was very much part of the RSS BJP ecosystem.
11:41He's not someone who was an outsider in that sense.
11:43So when you say that he was angry, he was insulted, what is it that, what would insult Jagdeep Dhankar?
11:50Sama saying that when the US Vice President J.D. Vance came to India last month, Mr. Dhankar was not allowed as per protocol to host him, even though he's the Vice President of India.
12:00Is there something more to all of this than meets the eye?
12:03When you say that he was insulted, you've got to give a damn good reason for it.
12:07See, Rajdeep, I beg to differ with my friend Anilaj.
12:13BJP is a cadre-based party.
12:17And in a cadre-based party, there are certain minimum discipline which is required from the BJP ministers and BJP leaders.
12:26And that is part of their DNA.
12:28Because they are trained to believe and behave in a certain manner.
12:32A dedicated RSS worker at the BJP cadre would not have behaved the way Dhankar has behaved with Shivrat Singh Chauhan.
12:40In terms of stature, Mr. Dhankar might have been a Vice President,
12:44but Shivrat Singh Chauhan is a far more senior leader and far more experienced leader and carries far greater influence in the party itself.
12:53So the publicly saying something like this, that means Mr. Dhankar is still carrying his socialistic streak,
12:59for which Socialist Party and the leaders are known world over.
13:03And that is why they could not remain one but broken into the many parts.
13:07The fact of the matter is that he was an outsider, tried to be insider, but failed miserably.
13:15This very statement which he had shown proves that point.
13:18The last point, Rajdeep, I want to make, I was just checking, I believe that Rajna Singh is the most affable, most sociable leader in the party.
13:27Even he had not tweeted, he had not tweeted through Twitter, he has not inquired anything about Mr. Dhankar's health.
13:35And my information goes, none of the BJP leader, none of the BJP ministers had gone and inquired with a bouquet or a basket of fruits.
13:44That means there was a total breakdown of relationship between the Dhankar party and the ministry and the cabinet and the prime minister.
13:54Now many believe of course that one of the main reasons if there is to be a breakdown was also Jagdeep Dhankar taking on the judiciary as I keep repeating, particularly Justice Verma's case.
14:03The government also reportedly wants Justice Verma impeached, but Jagdeep Dhankar wants to lead the charge.
14:09Listen in to what he said about the cash hall at the judge's residence a few months ago.
14:14There was cash hall at the residence of a judge, in large quantum.
14:24I say so because it is now in public domain, officially put up by the Supreme Court.
14:32That the official residence of a judge of the Supreme Court, judge of the High Court, cash in large amount was found.
14:47You know, he keeps referring to this issue, Rajat, do you believe that Jagdeep Dhankar is someone who crossed, in the Modi Shah government, can you, can any other individual be seen to be taking on the system apart from the big two?
15:05Is that part of the problem that Jagdeep Dhankar became almost larger than the post that he held as vice president?
15:11I think, forget about Prime Minister Modi or the Home Minister in this case, if it is any political party, they would want a degree of control over, you know, what is being said.
15:26And especially if you're on the Treasury bench side, I don't see that, you know, you replace this with the UPA or with the previous governments.
15:33Whenever anybody tries to move out of line, it creates discomfort.
15:38And here it is Prime Minister Modi who explicitly has said it multiple times that it is, he wants to ensure that the communication side is controlled properly so that no stray comments come in and unnecessarily derails the overall discourse.
15:52That has happened with multiple members of parliament and they have paid the cost.
15:56He does not want people to speak out of turn.
15:58And I believe that since the president, also, you know, the chair of Rajasabha, is largely an outcome of this political churning that has happened over the 10 years.
16:08And he cannot stand out and say things.
16:10I mean, what he said against Shivarajji, this is not even the platform to do that.
16:13And there was an outreach.
16:15By any means, there was one.
16:17And in regards to judiciary, I mean, again, I'm contemplating, not that I am privy to anything insider, but all I can sense is that this will create unease.
16:24Look at what is happening in the Congress party.
16:26If today a Shashi Tharoor goes in and makes comments, it makes huge amount of discomfort, even with the Congress set up.
16:33That's how parties are.
16:34That's how the system operates.
16:36And this is why even the letter that has been written by Dhankarji will leave gaps between the words.
16:43The tweet that the Prime Minister has written has left gap between his words, what he has written.
16:47And those would be for, you know, for next several years and decades for us to parse and analysts to think about it, what went, what not went.
16:54But this is how the powers have spoken.
16:56And it is up to analysts now to decipher it and it is going to carry on sometime now.
17:00You know, the silence, of course, makes it even more difficult and it only leads to more speculation.
17:05But Anilesh, a final word to you.
17:07Who will replace Jagdeep Dhankar?
17:09If you are a betting man and I'm not sure you are, is there one, two, three?
17:13Lots of names are doing the round.
17:15Someone even suggested Sashi Tharoor not realizing perhaps the way the BJP functions.
17:19Who do you think?
17:21One, two, three.
17:22Rajnath Singh ka naam chal raha hai.
17:23Kahi naam chal raha hai.
17:25Rajeeb, one thing I have learnt while tracking RSS and BJP that don't guess.
17:31Because, you know, there is a lot of consultation these guys do.
17:34A lot of thinking goes behind it.
17:37And right now, they are in a state of shock.
17:40They haven't made any panel.
17:42And they just want to understand how the cabinet reshuffle and BJP's national president and UP thing gets sorted.
17:51And there they will pick a piece.
17:54And maybe, you know, in 15 days' time, we'll get to know that in which direction BJP is thinking and RSS is thinking.
18:01So, you could even have a compromise, a BJP president of one type and a vice president of another.
18:09Some kind of a compromise could well be arrived at.
18:11But that will be the next big question.
18:12Khaun banega uprashtrapati?
18:14But to all my guests for joining us and giving us a sense of the mystery surrounding Jagdeep Dhankar.
18:20Clearly, this was not about health.
18:22That's becoming clearer by the day.
18:24Dal mein kuchh kala hai ya kuchh toh tinka hai.
18:27Whatever they would like to say in this particular case.
18:30Thank you all very much for joining me.
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