Relationship between Jagdeep Dhankhar, government had broken down: P Chidambaram

India Today

In an exclusive interview with India Today, senior Congress leader and Rajya Sabha member P Chidambaram said the relationship between former Vice President Jagdeep Dhankhar and the government had completely broken down.

Transcript

00:00So as Jagdeep Dhankar's resignation as Vice President continues to swirl a political controversy,

00:07joining me now is one of the senior most members of the Rajya Sabha,

00:11former finance and home minister and Congress leader, Mr. P. Chidambram.

00:15I appreciate your joining us, Mr. Chidambram.

00:18While the Vice President has said that he has resigned on health reasons,

00:24the Congress Party doesn't seem to be buying the argument.

00:27They're saying there's more to it than meets the eye, even hinting at a constitutional crisis

00:32and that the Vice President was eased out of office by the Modi government.

00:37Are you all only fishing in troubled waters, Mr. Chidambram?

00:46We are not fishing. We are not cause of the troubled waters.

00:51Firstly, in my view, there is no constitutional crisis.

00:55It's obvious that the relationship between the then Vice President and the government

01:08had completely broken down.

01:11Now, what was the reason for the breakdown?

01:14I can't speculate.

01:15But once the government lost confidence in Mr. Dunker, he had to go.

01:24How do you know the relationship had broken down?

01:27On what basis are you saying the relationship had broken down?

01:30I'm answering that.

01:35The Deputy Chairman made a bland, emotionless announcement in the Radio Sabah today

01:45that there is a vacancy in the post of Vice President

01:53and the occurrence of the vacancy has triggered the schedule

01:59which will be announced in due course or something to that effect.

02:04Which means the government has bid goodbye to Mr. Dunker

02:10without fuss or fanfare or a farewell.

02:15Which means the trust, the link between the two has completely broken down.

02:24But what I find interesting, Mr. Chidambram,

02:26is that the Congress Party and other opposition parties

02:29had expressed their no confidence in Mr. Dunker not too long ago.

02:33You all had even last year brought an impeachment motion

02:36which was unprecedented against the Vice President

02:39accusing him of being a government mouthpiece,

02:41not conducting the Rajya Sabah fairly.

02:44Now that he's been removed or resigned,

02:46whichever way it is,

02:49suddenly the opposition seems to have developed an unusual fondness

02:52for Mr. Dunker.

02:56No, no, no.

02:57No opposition MP or no opposition party,

03:05to the best of my knowledge,

03:06has implored him or requested him

03:10to reconsider his resignation.

03:13In fact, I said yesterday

03:15and other MPs have said the same thing.

03:18I wish him a good health,

03:21a long life and a happy retirement.

03:25So nobody has asked him to reconsider his resignation.

03:29So why do you jump to the conclusion

03:31that we have developed a fondness?

03:33Yes, it would not have been appropriate to say that now,

03:38but now that he has left the position,

03:41we can say that now,

03:42that the opposition had lost confidence

03:45in Mr. Dunker many months ago.

03:49But Mr. Chitamram,

03:51just look at what Jairam Ramesh,

03:53your chief spokesperson and senior MP,

03:55said yesterday.

03:56He heads your media cell.

03:57He said he hopes that Mr. Dunker

03:59will reconsider his resignation.

04:01He says, Mr. Dunker is a farmer's leader

04:04and someone connected with the people of the country.

04:08I mean, it seems,

04:09that's why I said,

04:10the opposition is fishing in troubled waters,

04:12trying to create somehow this impression

04:15that Dunker's ouster reveals

04:19a government that is badly divided

04:21or a government that is tangling

04:23with the constitutional functioning.

04:24Not correct.

04:30I asked the Congress leadership this morning,

04:34is Mr. Jairam Ramesh's statement,

04:37official position,

04:39to which they invited my attention

04:42to the Congress President's statement

04:44this morning,

04:46where he said,

04:48Mr. Dunker has resigned.

04:49It's for the government

04:51to accept the resignation.

04:54They seem to have accepted the resignation.

04:57What have we got to say?

04:58That's the official position

05:00of the Congress Party.

05:02And I don't know of any other MP,

05:07any MP who has met Mr. Dunker

05:10or written to him

05:12or spoken to him,

05:15requesting him to reconsider his resignation.

05:17You know, Mr. Chitambaram,

05:21there is a story within a story here.

05:23There's also, we are told,

05:25a growing fear of a confrontation

05:28between the judiciary

05:29and the legislature stroke executive.

05:32And this is what triggered off

05:34eventually Mr. Dunker's resignation.

05:37He was keen to push ahead

05:39with an impeachment motion

05:40against the High Court Judge Justice

05:42Yashwant Verma

05:43in whose house cash was found.

05:46He allowed a notice

05:47signed by opposition MPs

05:50to be moved in Parliament

05:52in the Rajya Sabha,

05:53almost pre-empting

05:54a possible move

05:55in the Lok Sabha.

05:56Is that,

05:57as a senior lawyer also yourself,

06:00is that something you now fear?

06:02That there is a growing tension

06:03between the judiciary

06:05and the legislature

06:06slash executive

06:07and that's where Mr. Dunker

06:09by taking a strong stand

06:11against the judiciary

06:12ended up embarrassing

06:14the Modi government.

06:19The tension between Mr. Dunker

06:22and the judiciary

06:23was building up

06:25for over a year.

06:27He has taken

06:27confrontational positions

06:29on the power of judicial review,

06:33on one nation,

06:36one election,

06:37on federalism,

06:41on the Keshavananda Bharati case

06:45on basic structure.

06:47In fact,

06:48he criticized

06:49the Keshavananda Bharati judgment

06:52in the presence of

06:53former Chief Justice Chandrachul

06:55at a lecture.

06:58Therefore,

06:58this confrontation

06:59was there

07:01for the last year

07:02and the government

07:03either acquires

07:06in the confrontation.

07:09It's possible,

07:10as you say,

07:11that he

07:13overstepped

07:16his limit

07:18and confronted

07:21the government

07:22by admitting

07:23the motion

07:24against

07:25Justice Verma.

07:26But he had no choice.

07:28We had

07:2963 MPs

07:31of the Rajya Sabha

07:32signing the motion

07:34and he had no choice.

07:36And equally,

07:37he had no choice

07:38but to admit

07:40the impeachment motion

07:42against Justice

07:43Shekhar Yadav.

07:44But he has

07:45held that back

07:46for over

07:47six or seven months.

07:49That was wrong

07:50on the dubious

07:52ground of

07:53verification

07:54of the signatures.

07:56Once the signatures

07:57were verified

07:58and re-verified,

08:00he had no choice.

08:02I'm told

08:03that he was

08:04planning to admit

08:05that motion also.

08:07But I'm also told

08:08that the government

08:09was not very keen

08:11on admitting

08:12a motion

08:12against

08:13Justice

08:14Yadav

08:15as they were keen

08:16to admit

08:17a motion

08:18against

08:18Justice Verma.

08:20Please remember

08:20that the government

08:22was the

08:24motive force

08:25behind the

08:26impeachment motion

08:28in the Lok Sabha

08:29against

08:30Justice Verma.

08:31But the government

08:32has been

08:33completely silent

08:34and inactive

08:35on a motion

08:37to impeach

08:38Justice Yadav.

08:40Therefore,

08:40the government

08:41has double standards.

08:42Can I therefore

08:44ask you in conclusion,

08:45how do you think

08:46as a senior parliamentarian

08:47Jagdeep Dhankar

08:49will be judged

08:49and what does

08:50this entire episode,

08:52unsavory as it appears,

08:55reveal

08:55about the nature

08:56of the Modi government?

08:57You see,

09:04we know the character

09:06of the Modi government.

09:08They will

09:09befriend anyone

09:11as long as

09:13that person

09:15tows their line.

09:18But once

09:19he steps out

09:20of line,

09:22they will

09:23withdraw

09:23their support.

09:24I am not saying

09:26that is exactly

09:27what happened

09:28in Mr.

09:28Dhankar's case.

09:30But something

09:30must have happened.

09:32For example,

09:33Mr. Nanda

09:34and Mr.

09:35Rijuju

09:35attended

09:37the BAC

09:38meeting

09:38at 12.30

09:39which was

09:40adjourned

09:41after some

09:42discussion

09:42to 4.30.

09:44At 4.30,

09:45Mr. Rijuju

09:46and Mr.

09:46Nanda

09:47did not

09:48attend the

09:49meeting

09:49which

09:50everybody

09:52else

09:53present

09:53considered

09:57it

09:57a boycott.

09:58I believe

09:59Mr.

10:00Dhankar

10:00was

10:00quite

10:01miffed

10:02and upset

10:03and he

10:04terminated

10:06the meeting.

10:07So what

10:08happened

10:08between

10:0812.30

10:09and 4.30

10:10is for

10:12investigating

10:13journalists

10:14like you.

10:17How will

10:19Mr.

10:19Dhankar

10:19very quickly

10:20Mr.

10:20Chidamram

10:21be judged

10:21in your eyes?

10:22How will

10:22he be

10:23seen?

10:23Will he

10:24be seen

10:24as someone

10:24who upheld

10:25the dignity

10:26of his

10:26office

10:26or someone

10:27who was

10:27a government

10:28mouthpiece

10:29or someone

10:29who tried

10:29to be

10:30balanced

10:30and thereby

10:31play a

10:31prize for

10:32it?

10:35I can

10:36speak only

10:37for myself

10:37and maybe

10:40I can speak

10:41for the

10:41Congress

10:41Party

10:42but I'm

10:42not sure.

10:44Speaking

10:44for myself

10:45I know

10:46Mr.

10:47Dhankar

10:47for several

10:48years.

10:49I knew

10:49him as

10:50an advocate

10:50and a

10:51senior

10:51advocate.

10:52I was

10:53very

10:53disappointed

10:54with the

10:55way he

10:56conducted

10:57the Rajya

10:59Sabha

10:59but that's

11:00past now.

11:01Why

11:01rake up

11:02the past?

11:02I think

11:05his understanding

11:06of the

11:06rules

11:06and his

11:09rebuff

11:10of the

11:10opposition

11:10motions

11:11were very

11:15disappointing.

11:16question.

11:18You are

11:19being diplomatic there in your final answer, Mr. Chidambaram. I'll let it rest there for

11:26now. But I appreciate you joining us and giving us a sense of where you stand on what has

11:33been the major controversy of the last 24 hours, the resignation of the Vice President.

11:39Thank you so much.

11:40I want to end my saying. I just want to end by saying that I wish Mr. Danka good health,

11:49a long life. Yeah.

11:53Okay. I'll leave it there. Thanks very much, P. Chidambaram, for joining me here on the news today.

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