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00:00Should we just parrot the word nature, nature, nature, nature, or first understand what nature really means?
00:07Let's observe the life we are leading.
00:09What do we go to the hills for?
00:11To change or to return rejuvenated and revitalized to resume the same old routine.
00:18If going to the jungle were to help make you a better person, then all the animals would have been liberated beings.
00:25I don't want to discourage those who love the hills and the natural beauties.
00:30I too am among them.
00:31I too love a scenic sunset.
00:34I do, really.
00:35If you don't see where your action is coming from, please see.
00:40Action coming from the wrong center doesn't help.
00:43I'm not saying we should not take our kids to a walk in the jungle.
00:47But first of all, the kid must know why we are going there.
00:50Why the jungle?
00:51Let's look at this city itself.
00:53This too is nature.
00:54Is it not nature?
00:55Come on.
00:55Before we stepped in, every single place on this planet was a jungle.
01:00Everything is nature.
01:02We go to the nature without knowing our own nature and then there is violence.
01:06Good evening, Acharajji.
01:19I'm Vishnu.
01:20I studied in a J. Krishnamurti school where it was called like a school without walls.
01:25We used to not only...
01:25School without?
01:26We used to not only study in the curriculum, you know, go to the nature, learn from the nature.
01:33We used to sing Kabir Ke Doha while we did sing Kabir Ke Doha, I'm understanding more through your, you know, classes that we are taking.
01:40So, my question now is, you know, while we are in this world, we are talking about education.
01:45I had the privilege of studying in such a school where I was closer to nature, where I was introduced to these notions of Kabir and everything.
01:54Do you think that even though the education that we are having right now, let's say in Vidya or Vedant, is that required or with that do we...
02:02Should a person be closer to nature also and, you know, have certain other things for us to be better educated in these domains or with the rising population as well, it becomes challenging for the schools to impart such a knowledge.
02:16We see the schools nowadays are just buildings and not, you know, with a lot of what you call nature around them.
02:24So, my question is, how, what is the right role of education and is like a person, people being closer to nature, is that also what do you call important?
02:36What do you mean by nature?
02:40I mean, let's say, I mean, to say, it was a valley in the school that I started, I mean, to say the nature is all the mountains and the birds or the animals and everything that we see around.
02:54You mean, you mean an environment of non-human species?
02:59Yes. Not only that, but I mean...
03:02See, classically speaking, everything is nature. Please say. Thank you. Good question. Thank you.
03:15Basically, everything is nature. Prakriti. Everything is Prakriti.
03:20There are obviously certain advantages when you sit next to a waterfall or a river or you are watching an untouched hillside.
03:36There is a certain tranquility, serenity and that's why tourism flourishes so much. We know of that.
03:49But, if one has to come to himself, if students have to be brought closer to themselves,
04:00are we not exaggerating the role of being in tranquil surroundings? Please understand.
04:15If you look at the hilly states of India, we have nice people there, wonderful people. I have been there so often, hospitable people, friendly, everything.
04:34But the kind of superstition you see in the hills, probably exceeds the levels of superstitions we see elsewhere.
04:46Hmm? In the north, if you look at per capita flesh consumption, it is the highest in the hills where there is prolific abundance of natural beauty.
05:01But there is animal slaughter and continuous consumption of all kinds of meat and all that is happening.
05:12So, had it been greatly liberating to spend a week in the hills,
05:26then those who are spending their entire lifetime in the hills should have been automatically liberated?
05:33No? But do you see that? Do you see that? Instead of liberation, you find a hell lot of superstition.
05:41Are you getting it? So, let's observe the life we are leading. I too go to the hills or to the beaches occasionally and I fully understand where you are coming from. Right?
06:08It's a good, relieving experience. I see that. I know that. But I am trying to draw your attention to something else.
06:18I am not going to live on a beach. I go to my office. I earn my livelihood there. I return to my house. There is the family. There are the neighbours. There are my humdrum affairs.
06:38There is the wife. There are the regular issues and quarrels and these things. Should I not first of all aim to get into these deeply?
06:50Or should I say I have had a very tense fortnight at the office because I needed to reach the financial year and targets? It's March you see. It's March.
07:05So, after this tense fortnight, I am now packing my bags and going to Dalhousie or Masoori or Kausani or some place and that will be so relieving.
07:20There is a difference between approaching and escaping. No? What do we go to the hills for? To change or to return rejuvenated and refreshed and revitalized to resume the same old routine?
07:45Please tell me. 15 month days of hectic activity. Oh my God, I am so tense. But yes, through all kinds of means, through hook or crook, Samdaam, Dandbhed, I was able to fool the customers and achieve my targets.
08:05And I will get a good bonus and a decent appraisal. So, I can even afford to splurge on tourism a little.
08:12So, I pack off to the hills and you know what the peace loving tourists have done to the hills. You know that, right?
08:24They have taken away the peace of the hills. Visit any popular hill station or beach. Go to the Baga beach in Goa or go to Nainital or go to Shimla.
08:41And see what tourists have done there. And see what tourists have done there. And these are all tourists who ostensibly come to shed their attention.
08:57They very literally shed things. And what they shed remains where it is shed. And then they come back and resume their same old routines, same old routines.
09:13How will that help? I am asking, how will that help? The saints have very amusingly been asking us, you know, if going to the rivers and taking holy dips were to make you a better man,
09:41then the greatest species would be the crocodiles and the turtles. They are always inside and sometimes they come out. You are taking a dip only for two minutes. The crocodile is inside for 22 hours a day.
10:0122 hours a day. The greatest sage. If going to the jungle were to help make you a better person, then all the animals, the chimpanzees and everybody continuously living in the jungles,
10:19they would have been liberated beings. If shaving off your head were to make you a better being, then sheeps get shaven off very frequently.
10:38They should have been the most pious. They should have been the most pious of individuals. And that's what the saints have been asking. But we don't realize that.
10:49See, I don't want to discourage those who love the hills and the waters and the natural beauties. I too am among them.
10:59I too love a scenic sunset. I do, really. But I also know what goes with it. I also see that if we do not intend to change our centre, it won't help to change our geographical, physical location.
11:20We have now been everywhere and now we are going to Mars. What do you think we are going to Mars for? What do you think we are going to Moon for?
11:30We love Chanda Mama. We are missing him. And that's why we want to land on. No, we say we will come, we will drill, we will excavate. We want minerals.
11:39And especially if we can get some nice radioactive minerals like plutonium and uronium. They help us build sand castles. No, these are very cute minerals, plutonium, uronium, etc. We use them for very decent purposes.
11:57And since we don't have enough of them on this planet, we want to dig out other planets and the satellites. That is the height of tourism, literally the height of tourism.
12:13So now you don't even talk of only terrestrial wars. We used to have air, the air force, we used to have the land army and we used to have the navy, the ships and the submarines.
12:30And now we are talking of warfare in space. We are such great tourists we are. How will it help to even circumambulate the entire planet forty times or the entire universe hundred times if you don't see where your action is coming from?
12:53Please see, action coming from the wrong centre doesn't help even if the action looks outwardly very noble or harmless.
13:05We will say it's such a harmless thing you know, to sometimes wander into the woods. Yes, it's a beautiful thing to wander into the woods.
13:14The one who chopped off the entire jungle, maybe once just randomly wandered into the woods and then said, wow, such nice woods.
13:24Give me a mechanical saw. Such nice woods, you know.
13:36Fishermen go into the sea. It's great when you are in the middle of the sea. And they go there because they love the fish.
13:44Just as you say, oh, I love chicken. What are you going there for? What are you going there for?
13:54And now we also have deep sea trawlers. So, we go there because we want to reach the point in the sea where even sunlight refuses to reach.
14:04We are such great lovers of nature. No, you are going there because you want to dig deeper.
14:08It's not for love, obviously. It's for cruelty. If I do not know myself, whatever I will touch, I will destruct. So, we better avoid touching stuff.
14:25I am not saying we should not take our kids to a walk in the jungle. But first of all, the kid has to be initiated. The kid must know why we are going there.
14:40The answers and before that, the questions must start coming from the kid herself. And then you say, you know, why the jungle?
14:55Let's look at this city itself. This too is nature. Is it not nature? Come on. Before we stepped in, every single place on this planet was a jungle.
15:08Everything is nature. And even this auditorium, classically, in the philosophical sense is Prakriti. Just that we think that if we have made it, it is not natural. No, sir.
15:21No, sir. What do you call a bird's nest? Natural or unnatural? So, a bird makes something, it is natural. And man makes his auditorium, this is unnatural.
15:36No, this too is nature. This too is nature. What do you call a coral reef? Natural or unnatural? And there are a lot of organisms involved in the building up of that reef.
15:50And you call it natural. Similarly, this auditorium is also natural. So, before you take the kid off to the jungle, why not ask the kid, what's our relationship with these roads?
16:02All these are nature. The road is nature. Let's see. What's your relationship kid with the pillow you sleep on? What's your relationship with these little lizards that come out?
16:20In the summers? In the summers? Hmm? There is that thing called the mosquito cracker. It emits, I suppose, UV rays or something? It attracts mosquitoes.
16:35And then you hear a little burst and the mosquito is gone. Why not take the kid closer to that first? See, this is nature. This is nature. That lizard is nature. That stray dog is nature.
16:49Those mosquitoes. Those mosquitoes. I mean half a dozen of them. No, no, no. Eight dozen of them that have been killed today. They are all nature. Are they not nature? Huh? Oh, you look tired kid. Have a glass of milk.
17:03And as she begins to sip, ask her, where did this come from? This came from a natural animal. Let's, let's inquire the process. How it comes to you? This white fluid that we call as milk, where is it coming from?
17:17Is it not a natural product? So, why not go into it? Why do we need to go all the way to the Himalayas or to the Andes or to the Alps?
17:31Why not first of all look at something as simple and as ubiquitous as milk? Is it not natural milk? Yes, tea, coffee, lassi, chaach, buttermilk, yogurt. Yes, let the kid be encouraged to ask a few troublesome questions.
17:49Where is this coming from? What is the entire process? I want to see the animal it is being extracted from. Or are animals
18:01only worthy to be seen when they are in the jungle? If an animal is in the jungle, you are saying, wow, it's view worthy. Mama, look, a water buffalo. How about the buffalo that's being milked to serve your exploitative mind? Yes?
18:24You look at animals in the jungle and you say, wow, wow, animals, animals. How about the animals in our vicinity first? Why not take the kid closer to them?
18:37The crows, the sparrows? By the way, where are the crows and the sparrows? You have them in Bangalore? The North is missing them. Nobody is missing them actually. Just that they are not there anymore.
18:49Hmm? Or when you go to a jungle and you spot a parakeet or some other fancy bird, migratory bird, you know, NRI bird or something.
19:00Then you say, wow, wow, what a bird, what a bird. And not a word about the little sparrow that's gone missing. Not a word about that. Only the jungles are fancy places.
19:18Yes? Or look at the soil itself. We have places in the north where the soil has actually started looking white. So much fertilizer and pesticide has gone into it that it's all now chemical even on the surface.
19:43And you cannot spot any microorganisms or earthworms or the basic bacteria that give it its essential organic nature that is needed for it to sustain the crops.
19:56Is that not nature? Soil? I'm asking please. Is soil natural or not? So why should we not take the kids closer to soil in the first place?
20:06Is here natural or not? How about an AQI of 400? I know you don't have that here in Bangalore. But I am right now coming from a place where we sometimes have even 700.
20:19Soil? Why should we not take the kids closer to soil? Why should the kids not talk first about that? Or when the AQI becomes that bad? Should we fly away to Switzerland?
20:29If you are rich enough? If you are rich enough, that is entirely possible. And many in the north do that. They say, come November and we are flying abroad. With our kids obviously.
20:44Is that the kind of love for nature we want to inculcate in our kids? Destroy nature. Destroy nature and then run away to a place where there is still some nature left. Is that what we are talking of?
21:02But that's what general tourism is about actually. Deniers of climate change. They are saying it's not a problem at all. Great areas, large swaths of land in Russia, in Greenland and in Canada will now become green.
21:24Because the ice will no more be there. So we will have more inhabitable land. See, such love for nature. They are saying the land will become green now because the ice is now gone, the sheet is no more. So grass, green grass, such love for greenery, you see.
21:44Is that love for nature? Deny climate change, call it a hoax and then say, you see, because of climate change, we will now have more greenery. Even Alaska will become green. Even Antarctica might become green. Wow!
22:05It's overhyped. We have nothing for the cows and buffaloes that we torture no end and then slaughter no end. And we talk of being nature lovers and forest lovers and animal lovers and what not.
22:26That's not the kind of thing we want to teach our kids. That's hypocrisy. Please start from where you are. And I know I have run the risk of being misunderstood.
22:40I'm not saying one must not approach the hills. What I'm saying is, let the center be right first. Otherwise, we'll do to the hills what we have done to the hills.
22:50You know what we have done to the Himalayas? You know that, right? Yes. That is because we go to the nature without knowing our own nature and then there is violence.
23:02Then there is violence. Everything is nature. The kid gets a little grown up. The kid gets attracted to another person. That person too is nature.
23:18For the male, the female is nature. For the female, the male is nature. And there is that attraction. And that attraction is violence. Violence in the name of love.
23:26Because you do not know who you are. So what looks like love turns out to be violence.
23:33So should we just parrot the word nature, nature, nature, nature or first understand what nature really means? Mindless walks or adventure trips or going up a certain very picturesque trail will not help. Let me assure you.
23:55Let me assure you. We need to inquire. We need to have questions. And when we approach the hills or the seas with those questions, with honest inquiry, then it makes sense. That's when we should say,
24:17Yes, I want to go there. I want to go there. Because I have something to ask the hills. Let the trees whisper it to me. Otherwise, you are not going there to listen to the trees. You are going there to tag them down. Yes.
24:39Good evening, sir. Following to this discussion, like whenever you are discussing on various lifestyle choices, we have stressed upon that our decision should not be driven by our natural instincts, but by consciousness or knowledge or intellect.
24:53But when we see the history of humanity, when it was a natural species, it lived peacefully in its ecological niche, it lived peacefully in its ecological niche without harming anyone.
25:03And as we have advanced towards civilization, although we have gained in knowledge and consciousness, if we hadn't, we wouldn't have had language or even open sheets.
25:13But also, during the advancements towards civilization, we have destroyed all the ecosystems, we have caused the impending climate disaster.
25:21So, this growth transition from nature to civilization, has it been beneficial or for the humanity?
25:30See, it's not whether it has been beneficial or harmful, you cannot help it.
25:38Homo sapiens are fundamentally different from other species in the sense that they have a burning need for fulfillment.
25:50If you look at any other species, look at a dog, a parrot, a buffalo, a lion, if they are well fed, and there is not much heat or rain, they will be coolly sitting somewhere.
26:13We have instances where you have a pride of lions, four or five of them sitting together, and a herd, cattle is passing near at hand, right in front of them, and they don't bother to get up and attack because they are satisfied.
26:35Right?
26:36Right?
26:37They have only physical needs.
26:38Right?
26:39They have only physical needs.
26:40That's how they are configured physically.
26:41And we are saying human beings are fundamentally different because apart from physical needs, we have a deep psychological need.
26:50We are born unfulfilled, we need to reach somewhere, no animal needs to reach anywhere.
27:02In fact, no animal ever reaches anywhere.
27:05A dog is born a dog, lives a dog, dies a dog, doesn't it?
27:10Have you seen enlightened dogs?
27:14You cannot say, this one is a very conscious dog and this is an unconscious dog.
27:20You cannot do that.
27:21You cannot say, oh you know, that one is a saint among dogs.
27:25A dog is a dog, driven purely by its genetic nature.
27:32Same applies to all species.
27:35You cannot ask a coconut tree to not rise so high because the grass feels offended.
27:45And you cannot motivate the grass.
27:47You know, you too must rise.
27:48Shine on you crazy diamonds.
27:50Come on, show us what you can do.
27:52Rise.
27:53Why do you feel inferior in front of the coconut?
27:57Nothing like that.
27:58The grass is happy being grass.
28:01And the coconut, even if it tries to be humble, it cannot arrest its growth.
28:07So, a dog is born, a dog dies a dog, coconut is born, coconut dies, coconut.
28:12And that's been happening since millennia and that cannot change.
28:16But among human beings, there are great differences.
28:19No two coconut trees can be greatly different in terms of level of consciousness.
28:24But human beings can be greatly different because we have a special need.
28:30We are different from the other species.
28:33Hmm?
28:34I said it's a psychological need.
28:38The knowers would come and give me a pat on the wrist and say, no, no, no, use a better word.
28:47It's called a spiritual need.
28:48It's called a spiritual need.
28:50Spiritual need.
28:51We need to be fulfilled.
28:53Cats don't care to be fulfilled.
28:55Cats are alright as they are.
28:58You need to be fulfilled.
28:59You need a particular fulfillment.
29:00And for the sake of that fulfillment, you rush towards objects.
29:07And you cannot avoid feeling unfulfilled.
29:13You are born with that.
29:16It's a design feature.
29:18Hmm?
29:19This thing is born with a hollow here.
29:22That's a part of your design.
29:24You could call it a part of your basic physical configuration.
29:27Here, a hollow is there.
29:29It is to fill this hollow that culture and civilization came in.
29:34Hmm?
29:36It is to fill this hollow that man walked out of the jungle.
29:40Rather, man hacked down the jungle to create space where he could initially farm, grow crops
29:47and later on build buildings and other institutions and roads and other things and temples and all that you call a civilization.
29:57We did that just so that we could gain fulfillment.
30:01What remains however, is that if you do not know the very nature of that dissatisfaction, discontentment that we are born with,
30:14then the direction of your treatment, the direction of your assumed solution will be all wrong.
30:24So, we are born, we said, with a certain discontentment and we think that by acquiring this or that, by feeling more tangibly secure on the outside,
30:39we will be able to live lives of contentment.
30:43To some extent that is true.
30:46To some extent.
30:47If you don't have roof over your head or food on the table, then you will keep feeling uneasy.
30:54No?
30:55If you don't have clothes to wear and it's going to be terribly cold, it is unrealistic to expect that you will be at ease.
31:04So, to some extent, material achievement helped us feel more secure and more contented.
31:16The trouble starts after that point.
31:19A point comes when more material accomplishment cannot help you feel more fulfilled.
31:29That's when we said, it becomes extremely important that we know the nature of the beast that is always hungry within.
31:40What is this dissatisfaction about?
31:44Because this dissatisfaction can no more be taken care of using material things.
31:52I have stuff and adding more stuff gives me very little marginal utility.
32:01Even negative marginal utility.
32:04Two cars in the family already.
32:09When the third one comes, it is possible that you start having trouble over parking space.
32:15So, instead of giving you more satisfaction, it has actually given you sleepless nights.
32:20You are parking it here and there and picking fights with neighbours.
32:24So, the third car has actually not helped.
32:27The first car greatly helped.
32:29The second car, there was some little additional benefit in terms of internal welfare.
32:35The third car has actually become a liability.
32:38That's where mankind today is.
32:41We do not know what we really want.
32:43So, we keep adding cars to our garages.
32:48So, we keep adding stuff like furniture and jewellery and obviously bank balance.
32:57And sometimes educational degrees.
33:01I'll have more, more, more, more.
33:04It's obvious why a fellow wants more, more, more and more of anything.
33:09The fellow thinks having more and more of anything will bring peace.
33:15There was a time when the constitutions were not so liberal and equal towards the genders.
33:31Men would have fifteen wives.
33:34The first one couldn't satisfy.
33:36The second one couldn't satisfy.
33:38Kings used to have entire harems in which sometimes hundreds of women will be there.
33:52The king might not even remember their faces.
33:57But after every war, he would bring another booty of these trophies and say, you know, fifty more.
34:06For what?
34:07You are still as miserable within as you always were.
34:11And you have been adding to the royal treasury.
34:14And that too hasn't helped.
34:16The size of your army.
34:19The size of the lands you have occupied.
34:23Nothing is helping.
34:25Are you getting it?
34:27So, what then is to be done?
34:30If the treatment is not working, it means the diagnosis of the disease has not been proper.
34:36You have not diagnosed the disease properly and you are continuing with some kind of treatment.
34:43And that treatment is actually backfiring.
34:46Climate change is another name for that treatment backfiring.
34:52More objects, more objects, more objects and that's what climate change is about.
34:57Are you getting it?
35:02We'll have to do something as we are born.
35:04We cannot live like animals.
35:06That's not possible.
35:07That's not in our physical constitution.
35:10So, something has to be done but not what we have done.
35:15And that which we have done was useful to an extent.
35:19We agree.
35:20We agree.
35:21Money is needed.
35:23Material prosperity is needed.
35:24We need those things.
35:25Good roads are needed.
35:26Obviously, we need those things.
35:28Clothes are needed.
35:29Yes.
35:30And we need to have enough money to at least, you know, if you cannot even read properly because
35:37your eyes are failing, you need to have money to buy good glasses.
35:42Education costs money, everything.
35:43So, you need those things.
35:45But we have as a species far exceeded the point where money could be taken as directly correlated
35:58to internal welfare.
36:00In fact, we have tangible numbers for the point.
36:06Those numbers have emerged from research till this point, till this level of individual income,
36:14you find internal welfare positively correlated to income.
36:18So, as the incomes by income, I mean material possessions because that's what income translates into.
36:24So, as income increases, your internal welfare also increases and then comes a point when it does not.
36:33That point was I suppose $75,000 for the US.
36:36There is $75,000 and which university conducted the research?
36:44Princeton.
36:45Princeton.
36:46It's a Princeton research.
36:49Till $75,000 annual income, you find that increase in income is leading to an increase in what you can call as internal welfare or satisfaction or contentment, whatever.
37:05Beyond that, the curve starts plateauing.
37:09You have a flat curve.
37:10So, you may keep increasing the income.
37:12Internally, you will remain equally miserable.
37:14And we said not just equally miserable, you might find that the welfare is actually declining, dipping.
37:24What do we need now?
37:25What do we need now?
37:27In this age when the doomsday clock is very, very close to midnight, what do we need?
37:36We need people who can look at themselves and say, yes, I agree I am not fulfilled, but how do I be fulfilled?
37:45Is material the answer?
37:46Is more money the answer?
37:47Yes, we need money.
37:48We are not saying we should simply just forsake everything and renounce and back away to the jungle.
37:56No, we are not saying that.
37:58What is the answer?
37:59What is the new way of living?
38:02We need to be happy.
38:05Joy is a fundamental human demand.
38:09Where do we get that happiness from?
38:13One could say, I get my happiness from burning fossil fuel.
38:16Other could say, I get my happiness from reading great novels.
38:20We need to decide today.
38:22What is it that fulfils us better?
38:26Isn't it possible to just sit in a general cafe, an ordinary cafe and do meaningful work the entire day and read and dance maybe?
38:38And talk to worthy people and get your satisfaction, your happiness, your contentment from there?
38:47Yes, or is it really important?
38:50Really wreak havoc on the planet to kill all kinds of species, tear them apart, consume their flesh, have a huge carbon footprint.
39:02Is it important to have all that in order to be happy?
39:05That's the question we need to ask today.
39:08We are not to deny satisfaction or contentment or happiness to ourselves.
39:14We need to find a higher plane of satisfaction, a higher plane of happiness.
39:21Yes?
39:22Is this close to something that could help?
39:34Yeah, thank you.
39:36Namaste Acharya Ji.
39:37I am Ravisha.
39:38I am Varun.
39:39So, we have been listening to you from last 5 months and I started listening to you from YouTube last year.
39:56After listening to the Ghista community and your sessions, I could see that now I can differentiate between what is right and wrong.
40:04And from your teachings, you have told us not to bow down in front of the power and the money.
40:11So, what to pursue which is right in your life.
40:14I have started seeing the things objectively, ending all my superstitions and to inquire into the things.
40:20Many of the teachings Ravisha has mentioned that we have been benefited a lot from the teachings of Acharya Ji.
40:26And we are here in the U.S.
40:29Whenever we find time, we listen to him and it has been a great journey so far.
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