Defence Secretary John Healey has said that the British people "deserve answers" after unveiling the Afghan migrant scheme cover-up.Speaking to GB News, Healey admitted that those affected by the data breach showed "little evidence" of risk from the Taliban.FULL STORY HERE.
00:00John Healy, an appropriate day to talk to you, a busy day to talk to you.
00:05We were just in studio here talking about the Afghan migrant situation.
00:10John, let me ask you, what happens next? Where are we at with this?
00:15What is the state of play? There may have been up to 100,000 people named on this list.
00:21So what happens to them now?
00:24Well, good morning. There were indeed nearly 19,000 individuals sort of named on this data set.
00:35In some cases, there were some family members identified.
00:40Many of these people have no connection with Britain.
00:43They're not eligible for the special schemes that Britain put in place to recognise the duty we owe to those who served or worked with our armed forces.
00:53But nevertheless, this is a huge data breach that had never been disclosed.
00:59It led to the previous government setting up a secret resettlement scheme bringing Afghans into this country
01:06and covered all by a totally unprecedented super injunction that meant that the public couldn't know about this,
01:14the press couldn't report about it and Parliament couldn't scrutinise this.
01:19All that changed. It changed yesterday because of the announcement I was able to make of the government's change of policy in Parliament yesterday.
01:27John, I'm just detecting from your tone, correct me if I'm wrong, please,
01:32but that you're dismissive or that you're disapproving of that secret resettlement scheme being hidden the way it was.
01:42And the only thing I'm going to say to you is, I immediately look and I think these are people who helped our country during the Afghan crisis.
01:51Surely everything should be done for them.
01:53But am I right, engaging your thinking, not the way we reported on this.
01:58We shouldn't have hidden this the way we did.
02:00Tell me more.
02:01Where people have helped our forces, worked alongside our forces, put their own lives in some cases as Afghans on the line,
02:12they are eligible for a different scheme, the ARAP scheme that has had all party support
02:17and is an important way that our country discharges that duty to them.
02:21The names on this list are not eligible for that.
02:26And the important step that I've been able to take off the back of an independent review that I commissioned
02:32is a fresh look at the situation in Afghanistan now, nearly four years on from the Taliban takeover,
02:38which identifies and concludes it's highly unlikely that simply being a name on this data set
02:44increases the risk of being targeted in Afghanistan.
02:48And it's on that basis that I published the report.
02:53I've ended this special secret scheme.
02:56I've disclosed this data breach and importantly, allowed the judge to respond to my application
03:02to have the super injunction lifted.
03:05So the British people deserve answers.
03:07And from today, they can start to get them.
03:10But look, John, this is what I think.
03:12And I hear you.
03:12I think they're slightly over-egging this because I suspect if you actually live in this region of Afghanistan,
03:18the Taliban would know who is actually helping the British people.
03:23It wouldn't be a complete, oh, shock horror, that person is there.
03:26So and again, the names on the list may not be that concerning if you are on that list.
03:33But my problem is this.
03:34Why do we need to take away the super injunction?
03:37Why do we need to know about this when this could continue to be done quietly?
03:44Because there could be a list of the people who are on the list.
03:46I know you said that there potentially isn't.
03:48Why does the British public need to know any more about this?
03:50Why can't they just keep it quiet to make sure that there's no potential for the Taliban to maybe look at this
03:55and go, hold on a minute, who was on that list again?
03:57That's kind of where I'm at with it.
03:59Well, first of all, you're totally right.
04:02And this RIMA report confirms what you've just said, that the Taliban, they took over the previous Afghan government.
04:09They had all the data and much more than that's on this spreadsheet about those individuals that worked in government
04:15previously or worked to support foreign forces.
04:19So they've got all that data, which means the additional value, if they have or get hold of this data set,
04:26it means it's highly unlikely to change the risk that any of those individuals face.
04:32On the question of the super injunction, I don't know about you, but I find it deeply uncomfortable.
04:39And I'm deeply concerned that we have, after all, our British system works on freedom of the media.
04:45It works on Parliament being able to challenge and scrutinize the decisions of ministers like me for what we do in people's names.
04:54And in particular, it requires us to be able to report to Parliament about the policies we put in place,
05:02the taxpayers' money that we spent.
05:05And that hasn't been possible with a super injunction.
05:08But that is possible now.
05:10And I expect the ministers in the previous government that took these decisions about the injunction,
05:16and in particular to set up and run this special relocation scheme.
05:22I expect them to be held to account, just like I'm being held to account,
05:26and expect to be held further to account for the decisions I've taken.
05:29I understand that.
05:30But, John, I'm just going to say the one difference is that we're talking about people's lives.
05:35We're talking about people at the mercy of the Taliban, living with the Taliban in a new regime,
05:42and they're an organization that will be looking for revenge there.
05:45So I get what you're saying, but surely the sanctity of someone's life ranks higher.
05:54Well, you're absolutely right that lives may be at stake.
05:58The RIMA report said there's little evidence that there is a retribution campaign by the Taliban.
06:05They're more concerned with those individuals who pose a risk to the regime itself now,
06:11not those who might have worked four years ago and beyond with the previous government.
06:17This is a decision that has weighed heavily on me, to be quite honest.
06:22I've thought long and hard about the lives and safety of people who I'll never meet in a land far off,
06:29a land in which 457 of our British men and women were sacrificed during 20 years of operations in Afghanistan.
06:37So it's a decision that no government will take lightly.
06:41We've weighed it heavily, but we've come to the judgment that the decisions we take now
06:49mean that 9,500 fewer Afghans will come to this country.
06:53The taxpayer will be saved £1.2 billion.
06:57And above all, there is now the transparency and possible scrutiny and accountability
07:03that couldn't have taken place while we had the super injunction in place.
07:06All right. So what about the civil servant who leaked it then?
07:09Who sent this email off by accident?
07:11What will happen to them?
07:13Will that person be exposed? Will that person lose their job?
07:16Or, you know, you're talking about transparency.
07:18So don't you need to, you know, the person who made the mistake should be penalised
07:23or are they in some high echelon in the civil service now?
07:28Well, forgive me, I'm not going to give you a snap judgment on something that happened
07:33three and a half years ago, which would have been a matter for decisions of ministers
07:37at that time, didn't have access to any of the papers.
07:40There should be and can be accountability right the way up the command chain in due course now
07:48because Parliament can challenge it, the media can challenge it, the public can know about this
07:54in a way that wasn't possible before the decisions I took and reported to Parliament yesterday.
07:59But this is bigger. This for me has always been bigger than the mistaken actions of one individual.
08:05And for me, this has been a question of coming into government.
08:08I needed to take responsibility for sorting this out.
08:11It's indefensible that in this country we continued to have a massive data breach that remained
08:23undisclosed to the public, that we had a secret relocation scheme in operation bringing Afghans
08:29into this country. And above all, we had a court imposing a super injunction against anyone
08:37knowing or disclosing anything about this.
08:41So, John, of the 100,000 or so people named, how many will be admitted, do you reckon, to this country?
08:51No more than a maximum of 7,000. 900 of the individuals with their immediate family members
08:59are already in Britain or in transit. And because the country has issued another 600 invitations
09:06to people on that set, that data set already, we will honor those. But I've closed the scheme now.
09:13There will be no more. And there will be a total of around 6,900. And there are a lot of figures
09:20flying around on this. This particular secret scheme has so far cost or committed 400 million pounds.
09:29It will probably cost a further same again in total. But the important thing is overall, because of this fresh assessment
09:40we've taken of the risk, because of the policy decisions I've taken and announced to Parliament,
09:44overall we'll see almost 10,000 fewer Afghans come into this country in the next few years.
09:50We'll see the bill to the taxpayer cut by at least £1.2 billion. And we'll see the start of the accountability
09:58and scrutiny that the public and Parliament and the media have been unable to have up to this point.
10:05OK. Defence Secretary, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much indeed for taking the time out
10:10on this very busy day for you to speak to us. Thank you very much indeed.
