- anteontem
As Mrs Thatcher’s government transforms the British economy, tensions erupt within her inner circle and personal relationships in her own family are exposed.
Categoria
😹
DiversãoTranscrição
00:00Good morning and welcome to a special format this morning because it's a special event,
00:05the visit of the Prime Minister. We're delighted you're here now, particularly with a summer cold
00:10as well. They're always the most difficult to get rid of, but they don't really bother one.
00:18Is what we see when you're on television the real you?
00:21I'm very nervous and it isn't until I lose myself in an argument that I really am quite natural.
00:27I'd known David Frost practically all my life because we came from two adjacent Suffolk villages
00:35and then we'd been in TVN together. I think he said, you know, I'm interviewing Margaret Thatcher.
00:42How do you think people perceive you in the country, the general public? How do they
00:47perceive you as a person and a leader?
00:50I never quite know. I read how they perceive me and it doesn't seem to have anything in common
00:55with what I am. I think what was happening was that the public were rumbling that she
01:02herself was becoming a changing personality and not always an attractive personality.
01:11I just picked a lot of adjectives, good ones like visionary, clear-sighted, bold, dynamic,
01:16single-minded. Oh goodness me.
01:18They're all quite big, aren't they? Those are good ones, right? And then they're intolerant,
01:22uncaring, aggressive, hectoring and so on. Harsh, etc.
01:25Yes.
01:26I believe that I influenced David Frost because I introduced him to the knowledge of the phrase
01:34the TBW factor.
01:36There have been lots of things you'll have read in the papers about people finding at the
01:40canvassing for the Shire elections that some people were talking about the TBW factor.
01:45Now, does the central office... What? The TV?
01:48Well, the central office used this phrase.
01:50I've never heard of it.
01:50They should have told you.
01:51Oh, what? TVW?
01:52I'm afraid it means, if you'll excuse me, not quite. It means actually that bloody woman
01:57factor, in fact.
01:58Oh dear, how dreadful.
01:59Isn't that awful?
02:00Yes, seriously.
02:00But they don't tell you. See, they don't tell you.
02:01No, they don't tell me, but I think they don't tell me because they know it isn't true.
02:06I didn't know about the... What?
02:09TBW.
02:09TBW, not TBW.
02:11Oh, I had no idea.
02:13Oh, no, no, no. TBW.
02:14I remember actually watching it and thinking, oh my goodness, I should never have said that
02:19to David over that drink last week. But it was in circulation, this phrase. But I'm not
02:26going to vote for you again because of that bloody woman.
02:31That's all for this morning. Our thanks to the Prime Minister. Thank you to you for joining
02:34next week.
03:07Memory's a wonderful thing. It plays wonderful games with you, and you can use it to cover up all sorts of pains and problems.
03:19I personally thought that Margaret Thatcher was the most extraordinary leader.
03:25She confronted the most difficult issues, minor strikes, Falklands War, the Brighton Bombs.
03:29She managed to deal with all of that with remarkable courage and certainty.
03:35That might help everybody if I clean my specs.
03:41I was Norman Tebbit's right-hand man, and it was my job to deliver to him and through him to the Prime Minister a strategy which was totally focused on winning the 1987 election.
03:54I had a very good relationship with Michael Dobbs. He was part of the central office team and was expressing the central office view, which of course was very largely my own view. We'd formed it together.
04:08All of the polls are telling us that that sense of direction and that sense of certainty which the Conservative Party and Maggie Thatcher had offered in the early years had gone.
04:20It's been a bad month for the government. There's no question now. We're in a fierce three-party battle.
04:30The poll says Labour, with 39%, would win a general election with an overall majority.
04:36Gallop also showed Mrs. Thatcher's own rating plunging.
04:40It wasn't people who were changing their views about what it is they wanted.
04:45It was that the government wasn't showing the leadership that it had previously done.
04:50She was the leader. She was the Prime Minister. She was a great Prime Minister. What we wanted to do is to get her back on track.
04:59We asked for a meeting with the Prime Minister, a political meeting, a strategy meeting, where we could set out the plan that would take us from where we were at the time, we were in deep trouble, to a successful election.
05:13I had one job spec, and that was to make sure that Mrs. Thatcher remained Prime Minister. So long as she won general elections, I was doing my job.
05:27So the meeting begins at Chequers. Saatchi and Saatchi, who were the party's advertising agency, had done some vox pop film.
05:37They'd talk to, you know, what you would call ordinary folk.
05:40We commissioned some focus groups and some research about what people thought of the Conservative Party, what it expected, what it wanted, and what it wasn't getting.
05:50The meeting didn't quite work out like that.
05:54It is, as I recall, an endless amount of people saying about Mrs. Thatcher, that bloody woman, again and again.
06:05And she basically, as I recall, sort of stopped the whole thing and said, I don't want to hear any more of this.
06:12Her solution to this was to pick up my charts with all the research on it and throw them into the corner and say, enough of that.
06:22She was extremely upset and she just didn't want to hear any more of it.
06:26And I think she was absolutely right.
06:28I mean, she just, it was, the whole atmosphere changed completely.
06:31The Saatchi and Saatchi boys were sent out of the meeting with their tail between their legs.
06:35In her early years, she would have admired being called that bloody woman.
06:41It was the Iron Maiden, the toughness of the whole thing.
06:44But I think she took it incredibly personally.
06:49It told me that she had changed.
06:51We never got round to discussing how we were going to make her the winner of the next election.
06:56She didn't give us a chance.
06:59She wouldn't listen.
07:05Mrs. Thatcher, who's faced a rising chorus of Tory misgivings about the government's direction and style,
07:11has told senior colleagues that she's not going to change her policies
07:15and she's determined to lead the Conservatives into the next election.
07:20Well, actually, I've always voted Conservative, but I must admit I'm going to change.
07:24You are, why?
07:25Because of all the unemployment, I don't think Maggie Thatcher's really interested.
07:30I have to take many tough decisions.
07:32We have to take decisions sometimes to close factories, to close businesses, or not to rescue them.
07:36The number of people out of work has gone up sharply to a new record level.
07:42Today's government figures show more than 3,340,000 people are on the dole.
07:51As a man knows not a lot about politics, I don't think they're doing enough.
07:55They're not doing enough?
07:56I don't think she listens to people.
07:58I just think she's one-minded.
07:59I understand that in the long run, people's hope for a job is to get flourishing factories, flourishing business.
08:07But the short-term decisions would appear hard.
08:11Freedom incurs responsibility.
08:14That's why many men fear it and many women fear it.
08:16I can't run away from it.
08:18By 1985, it is fair to say that she'd got a reputation of being bossy.
08:26I used to say, be relaxed and don't be as domineering as, you know, let yourself settle a bit.
08:36But, you know, it's very difficult to succeed because if you're being yourself, you'll be yourself.
08:44And you give them the slightest, slightest reason to have a go, you'll have a go, won't you?
08:50Well, look, I cannot do everything.
08:53Some of the work that is being done is fantastically successful.
08:57Don't you think that's the way to persuade more companies to come to this region
09:01and get more jobs as I want them for the people who are unemployed,
09:05not always standing there as moaning minis.
09:08Now, stop it.
09:10She once said to me,
09:12journalists, brittle, insubstantial people who have never achieved much in their own lives
09:19who are only too willing to criticise others who are trying.
09:23I felt put in my place.
09:25That is the way to get more jobs, not your way.
09:28I want more jobs.
09:29Now, cheer up and go and boost the success
09:32and you're much more likely to get more jobs then.
09:34Can you have a question so far?
09:36Did you work with her to try and make her image more empathetic?
09:40Well, I don't try to achieve the impossible.
09:45But what I tried to do was to make her aware of these things
09:50and to try to moderate her presentation.
09:55because she wasn't born to express compassion.
10:07She liked my then-husband, Tom,
10:10and so we used to get invited to Number 10 when she had people visiting.
10:15And I just kind of tagged along.
10:17I was working for Yorkshire Television
10:22and someone in the science office had this idea about talking to eminent women
10:28who'd made their way in a masculine world with some temerity, I have to say.
10:34We said, well, how about Mrs. Thatcher?
10:37And we all went, oh, she'll never do that.
10:39So I wrote quite informally to her.
10:43I think if she talked to anyone in her office of her colleagues,
10:47they would have said,
10:48it would be rather good for your reputation, even your image,
10:54if you were shown to be just an ordinary woman trying to do a difficult job well.
10:59Margaret Thatcher leads a double life, wife and mother and iron lady.
11:05How does she fit the two halves together?
11:09When we came to do the interview,
11:11I said, you know, Prime Minister,
11:13I think we could actually do a little bit with your hair and face.
11:17Oh, what? Oh, what? She said.
11:19I said, well, I think we could soften your hairline a little bit.
11:24Because it looked as though it was a helmet, you know, stiff.
11:28So the makeup girl did that.
11:29And she said, oh, yeah, I think that's much better.
11:32You've referred to the importance of your upbringing,
11:35to your politics and your philosophy.
11:37Can you tell me a little bit about your home?
11:39Well, home really was very small and we had no mod cons.
11:44And I remember having a dream that the one most thing,
11:49one thing I really wanted was to live in a nice house,
11:52you know, a house with more things than we had.
11:54When you say no mod cons, what do you mean?
11:56We had not got hot water.
11:59We only had a cold water tap.
12:01We had to heat all the hot water in a copper.
12:04There was an outside toilet.
12:07Many, many times I can remember my mother saying,
12:10well, I said, oh, my friends have got more.
12:12Well, we're not situated like that.
12:14And I used to say.
12:16And you accepted it?
12:17Well, we're not situated like that.
12:19One kicked against it.
12:20Of course one kicked against it.
12:22They had more things than we did.
12:24Of course one kicked against it.
12:26She was amenable.
12:28More than willing.
12:30And she was just like another girlfriend.
12:34My father was chairman of the finance committee.
12:36And my goodness, our town never got into debt.
12:39My goodness me, every money was spent carefully.
12:42Nothing spent extravagantly.
12:45And eventually, he was on the council for such a long time.
12:49And eventually became an alderman.
12:50We don't have alderman now.
12:52And eventually when the political complexion changed,
12:54they threw him off being an alderman.
12:56And I put my finger on the next question
12:59so I wouldn't lose it.
13:01And I looked up at her.
13:04And to my astonishment,
13:07I saw that there were tears in her eyes.
13:12I remember when my father was turned off that council,
13:16making a speech for the last time.
13:18Very emotional.
13:20In honour, I took up his gun.
13:24In honour, I laid down.
13:26And that's how he felt.
13:30I mean, I was quite gobsmacked
13:35that she was prepared to open up to that degree.
13:39You fulfilled a lot of social duties as well
13:41that were part of your religion.
13:42Did you feel that the religion...
13:43I was with her for 36 years.
13:44We talked a lot about her upbringing
13:48and her family life
13:49and her mother being the seamstress,
13:51her father being a lay preacher, a counsellor.
13:55very strictly brought up, very strictly.
13:58It was absolutely paramount
14:00that she did what her father expected of her.
14:08I think one of the sadnesses
14:09of Margaret Thatcher's family life
14:11is that she didn't see much of her father in old age.
14:15Which is rather surprising,
14:18because she talked quite a bit about him,
14:20but she didn't when she had opportunities to do so,
14:23go and visit him and things like that.
14:25And that was, to Thatcher watchers, a bit of a surprise.
14:30Margaret! Margaret! Margaret! Margaret! Margaret! Margaret!
14:34Margaret! Margaret! Margaret! Margaret!
14:37The reality of inner city response
14:39to a prime ministerial visit,
14:41as Mrs Thatcher ventured last month into Glasgow,
14:44where not a single seat remains in Tory hands.
14:47Today, as they slump in the polls,
14:49the Tories are jittering.
14:51Unless they can wipe out Mrs Thatcher's uncaring image,
14:55the Tories increasingly fear
14:57it could cost them a third election victory.
15:08Mrs Thatcher wasn't great with members of the public.
15:12I used to ask myself,
15:13how did she get so far in politics?
15:17Because this was a real gap in her character as a politician,
15:23because most politicians, without falsehood, without insincerity,
15:28can relate to the electorate.
15:32Tory advisers now confirm
15:34that this is the side of the prime minister
15:36they want more and more to show
15:38over the two years' run-up to the next election.
15:41Boys, find a way. Do you want an appeal?
15:44Well, sometimes it's difficult to avoid looking uncaring
15:48when you're dealing with difficult issues.
15:51And I did what I could to advise her on her image.
15:57But, again, that's not easy
16:01with an extremely powerful, extremely successful woman
16:06who thought that the public should give her credit
16:10for the number of things that we had got right.
16:13Throughout all of the problems we've had,
16:16everyone knows that this government
16:18will run the finances of the nation in a sound way.
16:22What I would call popular capitalism.
16:25You know, more blue-collar workers own their own homes
16:27than ever before.
16:28More young people.
16:30More people have the chance of owning shares.
16:33She also, of course, by then,
16:35so dominated the political agenda
16:38that every decision seemed to involve her
16:41and her name, her reputation, her competence
16:43were at stake in every decision taken on.
16:47Mrs Thatcher herself is now out to show
16:50how tender is the right.
16:53How old's her baby?
16:55Seven months.
16:56Seven months.
16:57More people, I hope, have the chance of savings
16:59and the savings keeping their value.
17:01Caring capitalism as well.
17:03This is caring capitalism.
17:05August saw Tory support drop to 24%.
17:20Tebbit's task is to pull out of the slump in the polls.
17:23He'll be beating the drum and bashing the opposition.
17:27I wouldn't say that I really relished
17:30being asked to do the job of chairman,
17:32but, after all, if the prime minister says
17:35that she wants you to do something else,
17:37you do something else.
17:39She's the boss.
17:41One of the great sadnesses and challenges
17:46of the run-up to the 1987 election
17:49was Margaret's relationship with Norman Tebbit.
17:52Norman had been one of her closest advisers.
17:56What I don't think that she realized
17:59was just how badly physically and, in other ways,
18:03Norman had been damaged by the Pride and Bon
18:05and was also having to take care of a wife
18:10who had been confined to a wheelchair 24 hours a day.
18:15He had, in my view, all of the attributes
18:18to be a huge success as party chairman,
18:21but what he didn't have was the space
18:24and the time to do the job properly.
18:27But it also coincided with a time
18:30when I think Margaret was beginning to grow more suspicious
18:33about people around her.
18:35And her relationship with Norman
18:38deteriorated really quite sharply.
18:41I think what I would say is that Norman Tebbit
18:50was, from the very beginning, the Arch-Thatcher riot.
18:54But I was aware that there was some discontent
19:00with his chairmanship of the Tory party
19:03because he could be wayward and he could be difficult.
19:07I don't think he was all that interested in running a party.
19:14Norman Tebbit came into Number 10 looking black as thunder.
19:19When he was in a bad mood, his face just went black with fury
19:24and he was clutching a folder of press cuttings
19:27to show to the Prime Minister that the media
19:30had been encouraged to write disobliging stuff about him.
19:34It was very irritating at times for me as the party chairman
19:40to see reports in the press
19:43which were alleged to have come from Number 10,
19:48which were critical of me and what I was doing.
19:51I said, look, it makes it difficult
19:55if there are reports of a rift between the Prime Minister
19:59and the chairman of her political party.
20:04She seemed to be surprised at the fact
20:08that it purported to come from Number 10.
20:11And at 10 o'clock she...
20:14I think Bernard Ingham would have denied it.
20:18Certainly there were some people, and I don't...
20:24I think it was the Tory central office probably,
20:26but I don't know who were briefing against him,
20:30but it wasn't me.
20:33She was genuinely shocked,
20:35but he was paranoid and she was paranoid.
20:39And it was a terrible meeting,
20:41and after that I was very clear that this was madness.
20:46And years later I discovered that she had been told
20:51that Norman and I were plotting against her
20:57to get rid of her and replace her with Norman.
21:00And what's more that we were plotting, apparently,
21:03to do this while he was still in his hospital bed
21:07recovering from the Brighton bomb.
21:09Of course I would have liked to have been Prime Minister,
21:15but the injuries which my wife had incurred
21:21caused me to believe that I owed my loyalty to her,
21:27so that was closed to me.
21:32But I think that everybody who is in a high position
21:37around the leader is a potential threat.
21:44That's just part of the facts of life.
21:48Any other points that we wish to raise generally
21:50before we go on to the main business?
21:52There's that famous Whitehall bus
21:54under which Prime Minister's potentially
21:56might always walk and then somebody has to succeed.
22:02It's whether they walk or whether they're given
22:03a little shove, though, isn't it?
22:05And a question of who might be driving the bus.
22:14I think she regarded the Number 10 staff,
22:17the private secretaries and all the other people
22:19who worked in Number 10, as much more of a family
22:22than she considered her ministers.
22:25They, in a sense, were rivals.
22:27Everything is fairly close at hand.
22:28That's the beauty of having a very, very small kitchen.
22:31And as you will see, we all have to be very, very economically...
22:33...spaced. Now...
22:37She would often cook things for us in the evening in Number 10,
22:43when we were speechwriting.
22:46I wouldn't say she was an imaginative cook.
22:49There were frozen shepherd's pies in the freezer in the flat at Number 10,
22:54and she would get these out and warm them up.
22:56How do you manage about things like getting your groceries in?
23:09You can't pop out to the shops and all the things in...
23:12No, I can't, but, you know, one leaves messages in the kitchen.
23:15Please, running out of pepper.
23:17No more mayonnaise left.
23:20Simply must take the food.
23:21these running out of pepper. No more mayonnaise left. Simply must have some clear soup.
23:29The private Margaret Thatcher really wasn't very different from the public Margaret Thatcher.
23:34Charles Powell deals with foreign affairs. Robin, the European community governments
23:38have had to decide on 12 June. He and the principal private secretary sit beyond the
23:43great doors of the cabinet room. Well, that's a nuisance. She used to come and have supper
23:48with us in our very small muse house on her way home from Chequers on a Sunday night.
23:53My wife was the host of these small suppers. And Carla used to invite, really, a variety
24:00of people who she thought Margaret Thatcher would find stimulating. An artist, a dress
24:04designer, something like that.
24:07Mr Ian McCullough.
24:10She quite often gave them a pretty rough time, I have to say. Margaret Thatcher's problem
24:16was she tended to treat everyone as a potential critic or enemy, as though it was Prime Minister's
24:21question. So some inoffensive designer would suddenly find himself berated about something
24:28he knew nothing of, as though he was somebody who was trying to bring her down or undermine
24:33the government. She didn't sit still for a moment.
24:35I don't like the table to peter out at this end.
24:39She enjoyed work. It was what drove her forward and what she existed for, really.
24:43We've got a few minutes between meetings now, so if you could take some work up to her in the red box.
24:48At weekends, there are usually about four of those. And at nights, usually two. And I always tackle them at nights, because I want to know what's in them, in case there's anything that has to be done extremely quickly.
25:01But it isn't any trouble to do them. And I know the day will come when I don't have to do them. And I know I won't like it when it does come.
25:12She never stopped. And that did bring a conflict in her life, because I think, like nearly all working women, I don't know any working women who don't feel guilt that they're not giving more attention to their family.
25:26You took your bar exams and were successful and became embarrassed. And you went back to work very quickly after having your twins. Now, did you receive a lot of criticism from your colleagues?
25:37No, I didn't. But again, I remember that they arrived and they were very small and going to need a lot of looking after. And of course, you know, something you do change when you've had children.
25:50And I remember thinking, if I'm not careful, I'm never going to make an effort to get back to a sort of intellectual pursuit. I'm just going to be so overcome with this. And I really ought to be able to do both.
26:07And it was a conscious decision that I really must, must both look after children and do something else as well.
26:14Well, the challenges of being prime minister and a mother were pretty considerable. And to be perfectly frank, she rather failed.
26:22She didn't have time enough for her children. In one case, she rather overindulged Mark. In the other, she probably underindulged Carol.
26:32I think Margaret was a bit tough on the Carol.
26:35Yes, I think it's possible she was. I have a vivid memory of going up to the flat and into the sitting room to discuss some point with Margaret Thatcher.
26:49And in the course of our discussions, I heard a rustling in a cupboard in the corner of the room. And I said, what's that? Are there mice up here?
26:59And she said, no, that's Carol. So I said, why is Carol in that cupboard? And Margaret Thatcher said, well, you know, she was wearing jeans. So I told her to hide herself while you were coming in.
27:14Well, she really idolized Mark. And she didn't idolize Carol. I'm not saying that one was more loved or less loved, but somehow Mark could do no wrong.
27:27Mrs. Thatcher is determined to stick to her present policies. That was the clear message today as party officials tried to reassure their members.
27:37But there's little encouragement for them tonight in a poll conducted in four Tory-held marginals.
27:42The Labour Party would win an overall majority if a general election was held now.
27:47Today's defiant message from Downing Street is a challenge to any potential opponent of Mrs. Thatcher's leadership of Britain and of her party.
27:57At the age of 60, the ladies still not for turning or for changing.
28:03I think that right from the start, she felt that her position was precarious.
28:12That sense of precariousness that she had was actually a very useful aid to her.
28:19It's like the adrenaline that you need, the feeling that you better keep your eye on the ball, because if you don't, it could all slip.
28:28Well, Margaret Thatcher thought, and this is perhaps one of the more paranoid things about her,
28:34she had to be on her guard against most of her colleagues.
28:37And that was really where the term, I think, one of us came, or one of my people, tended to come from.
28:43She always complained there weren't enough of her people in the Cabinet.
28:46And one used to remind her, well, you appointed the Cabinet.
28:49Good evening. The British Government has a dramatic new look tonight.
29:04The Prime Minister's Cabinet reshuffle has turned out to be far more wide-reaching than expected.
29:09This time we had to do more the traditional reshuffle, where some ministers are very generous and lay down their portfolios,
29:16and for new ones to get their foot on the first rung of the ladder.
29:21An ageing lion gets rid of all competitors.
29:25Most of today's moves show a concern with growth and jobs as central issues in the next election.
29:31She put me in the Cabinet. I was a member of the Lords. I wasn't elected. I could never be a rival.
29:41She knew whatever happened. Whatever happened, I could never succeed her.
29:46It was partly through me that David Young came into government.
29:50A very able guy. But he has not got much political judgement.
29:57And indeed, somewhere at the back of his mind was the idea that he should take over my role,
30:06which he felt he would do rather better.
30:11They were, in many respects, competing for the Prime Minister's ear.
30:16And that was to be a relationship between Norman and David that was to become very difficult.
30:23Margaret had always enjoyed his advice and his company and his comforting.
30:28David had a very good way of comforting the Prime Minister,
30:32whereas Norman would often deliberately go in there and shake her up.
30:35And this is what? Painting, decorating.
30:37She knew that I had the same belief system that she had.
30:41She knew that I'd been an entrepreneur at a time, I must tell you, when there were very few.
30:47I was a self-starter, and she liked self-starters.
31:03Hello. Hello. Now, we're still doing the celebration, but I haven't seen the six tasks yet.
31:10I'm just going to read it so to get familiar with the words first.
31:16With capitalism and free enterprise, there are no boundaries of class or creed or colour.
31:23Everyone can climb the ladder as high as their talents will take them.
31:28Socialists often start by distributing wealth.
31:32They forget it first has to be created.
31:35But the truth is, Mr. Chairman, that the creation of wealth is the most fundamental of all social services.
31:42We are battling for a Britain free-from-class conflict, where priority is the right of...
31:48We're property.
31:50Unlike the majority of conservative politicians at that time, she was totally unafflicted by what you might call middle-class guilt.
32:03There's a consistent tendency in our society today to downgrade the creators of wealth.
32:10What those critics apparently can't stomach is that wealth creators have a tendency to acquire wealth in the process of creating it for others.
32:20You know, we haven't really got what we're meaning on this, have we?
32:23It's too long.
32:25Much has already been achieved. Go on.
32:28But we need more privatisation and more changes in the city to make it easier to buy shares.
32:35Huh.
32:36Privatisation was probably the single most successful innovation of the Thatcher government.
32:52We were selling industry to the man and woman in the street.
32:56Now one can simply buy shares over the counter of a shop or bank.
33:00It used to be conventional wisdom that we couldn't denationalise any state-owned companies.
33:06Not anymore. Privatisation is popular.
33:11And in the 1987 election, these were our strongest supporters.
33:17The sale of half the shares of British Telecom is expected to raise several thousand million pounds.
33:23Good evening. The government's going ahead with the sale of British Airways in the new year.
33:28We've denationalised Jaguar, C-Link and British Telecom.
33:32With almost a week to go before the closing date for applications for shares in British gas, it's already become...
33:37The British Steel Corporation is to be privatised.
33:40Labour's industry spokesman, Brian Gould, condemned the plan.
33:43It was another example, he said, of the taxpayer footing the bill, but the city picking up the profit.
33:49She absorbed privatisation into her philosophy of individual freedom.
33:55It was something that had never been done before, so we were treading new ground.
34:00Since 1979, a third of the state sector employing 600,000 people has been sold into private hands.
34:07We freed the whole thing up. That comprises the freedom to do sensible things and the freedom to do foolish things.
34:17Offer please again, offer.
34:18The city's big attraction is that it's free. Free to make money as it wants, free to make its own rules and police them.
34:25The stock exchange, Lloyd's, even dealers selling shares to the public, all have the power to regulate themselves.
34:32Competition is the name of the new game. The city's turn to have restrictive practices abolished.
34:38They call it the Big Bang. Even limited protections against fraud and abuse could be swept aside in the explosion.
34:45Without adequate and effective regulation, the temptation to bend the rules and cut corners will be overwhelming.
34:52Six-figure salaries have become commonplace as foreign firms have fought to buy the best teams in a job's merry-go-round.
34:59What are you making now?
35:00These dealers are the city's hottest properties. They won't talk openly about what they're paid, but it can run to £100,000 a year or more.
35:08What is your aim in life?
35:10He's doing lots of money, really.
35:12I don't think she expected it. I think she rather thought that everybody else was like her and naturally thrifty.
35:18The stock market will be a car park in five years' time. I'll have made a fortune and that's what I want.
35:23Some of the arrogant displays of wealth are jarred very much with me and with the Prime Minister.
35:33You've expressed great concern about the city's salaries and you've said it causes me great concern. I understand the resentment you said.
35:43The city in fact earns for everyone in the United Kingdom for our balance of payment 7.5 billion a year.
35:51Without that, we wouldn't be in surplus as we are.
35:56Get rich quick is better than get poor quick, which is what had been happening before we got into office.
36:04A lot of these people, the capitalists, have given Margaret Thatcher a bad name.
36:09And it's they who should be responsible, not her.
36:13Because she did not believe in excess. She believed in responsibility.
36:24The thought that rich people might actually be a bit parasitic on society and might be avoiding their obligations,
36:31I don't think will have been very strong in her.
36:34In terms of her personal attitudes, when she met people who are plainly grasping and greedy,
36:39she would have had the same attitude as you or me to that.
36:43She won't have liked it very much, but her politics tended to encourage it and I'm sure she knew that.
36:49Under Thatcherism, and this is what your critics would say, the nation is not one nation, but a divided nation.
37:00Between North and South, between the prosperous suburbs and the inner cities,
37:05between the employed and the unemployed, between the poverty stricken millions
37:09and the whiz kids of the big bang in the city.
37:13You ask what I know you call the gut question.
37:16Right, it's gone to the gut, it's gone to the jugular.
37:19Let me finish it.
37:21More home ownership, far more share ownership, far more savings and building society accounts.
37:28This is what is building one nation.
37:31As every earner becomes a shareholder, as more and more people own their homes.
37:37No, we are getting rid of the divisions.
37:40We are replacing conflict with cooperation.
37:46Some of our finest companies were started by people who came from modest backgrounds.
37:54And what was their driving force?
37:56They were ambitious to make money.
37:59Yes, and what's wrong with that?
38:01To give their children a better start in life than they've had.
38:06These are the virtues which we conservatives applaud.
38:11The
38:14The
38:19The
38:23Mrs Thatcher is doing something she revels in, making history.
38:26Wearing a full-length dress and hat as a concession to the Muslim faith,
38:30she became the first British Prime Minister to visit the Gulf, and perhaps more significantly,
38:35the first woman political leader to be received by the Saudis.
38:39Margaret Thatcher regarded herself as Britain's number one salesman.
38:43For companies, but for the nation as a whole, for people.
38:46And had no scruples about that for her, jobs for what matter.
38:49And the impressive line-up of princes and ministers who greeted her showed the Saudis do mean business.
38:55She always went out into the world as a sort of ambassador for Britain in September, when Parliament was in recess.
39:03So they're very good, not only for advanced training, but for striking from earth to ground.
39:08We went to Dubai and Bahrain and Emirates and all that.
39:13She was there, seeking contracts as well as anything else.
39:21Mark turned up completely unheralded in Oman,
39:27and we immediately recognised that this could be interpreted as him feathering his own nest, as it were,
39:37at the Prime Minister's expense, and we were pretty ratty about it.
39:42I think it provoked a diplomatic problem for the Foreign Office,
39:48because they were very, very disturbed.
39:52And my colleague, Michael Alexander, who was the Foreign Affairs Private Section Number 10,
39:59certainly warned the Prime Minister that there could be difficulties.
40:04And I don't think she responded very well to what he said.
40:16The national story of the hour is that row over Mrs Thatcher's son. It just won't go away.
40:22Now, the row is over the role she played in winning a £300 million contract in Oman for a British firm.
40:28Her son, Mark, is a salesman for the company and visited Oman at the same time as his mother.
40:33In fact, the two of them met twice in the time that they were there.
40:37The implication of the story was that she was making special pleading for a contract from which Mark would benefit financially.
40:48I don't think she recognised that there could be, at least conceived to be, a conflict of interest.
40:54People suspected that there was an element of corruption about it, and one could see why.
41:01Prime Minister, you haven't answered the questions to when you were in Oman.
41:06Did you know of your son's financial interest in the cementation bid?
41:11I answer, for what I do, what are they saying I did wrong?
41:15Did wrong in getting business for Britain? Some 400 companies?
41:19What are they saying I did wrong? Batting for Britain? I shall go on batting for Britain.
41:24Can you give the public, the people, an assurance that if all the facts were disclosed about this matter,
41:32there would be no evidence of any impropriety on your part, and no breach of the rigorous standards we all expect from people in public life?
41:41I believe that is correct. Then why not publish all the facts?
41:44Because the facts will be published in due course of time, but you know full well when the 30-year records come.
41:51Of course they will. Work came to Britain.
41:54They haven't been able to say that a single thing which I did was wrong.
42:00It was a very uncomfortable episode.
42:03What are you alleging that I did wrong?
42:06I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just putting to you the questions which they say you have not answered, and we'll leave it there.
42:12You're acting as a person. Let us leave it there.
42:14Mrs Thatcher, do you intend to lead the Conservative Party into the next election in, say, 87?
42:18I hope so.
42:19I hope so.
42:20Do you realise then that you will have been held the office of Prime Minister for the longest continuous period of this century and possibly long before that?
42:30Yes.
42:31Eight and a half years.
42:32It's not very long.
42:33Eight and a half years.
42:34Yes, it's not very long if you look back to other times.
42:37And you'll be 62. You still think you want to go ahead at the next election?
42:41Yes. I shall be a very fit 62. You might be a little bit nearer than I am, but you feel all right?
42:50Forgive me if I don't answer that question, Prime Minister.
42:56In a peculiar way, we were all courtiers at the court of Queen Margaret.
43:09Have you said the date? Have you said the date?
43:14The waiting is over. Mrs Thatcher has named the day. The general election will be on Thursday, June 11th.
43:21Would you expect this to be your last election as leader of the Conservative Party?
43:26I would hope not. I would hope not. This is only the third term we're asking for. I hope to go on and on.
43:34The 87 election was very difficult for everyone.
43:38Norman Tebbitt, the party chairman, me as his right-hand man, were nominally in charge of making all the preparations.
43:45And it became pretty clear from a fairly early stage in that process that something else was going on, that she was taking advice from other quarters.
43:56Lord Young is Mrs Thatcher's favourite minister. He has a starring role in the daily conferences.
44:02Out of the blue, I'm asked to help to run an election. I was told that she was very worried that we won't be prepared as well as we should be prepared.
44:12And Norman may not be the best organiser in the world, the best planner.
44:17But the trouble with Margaret is that she was a terrible man-manager.
44:22So although she told me quite a few times she wanted me to come in and help, she didn't tell Norman.
44:29But I think he'd heard rumours.
44:31Oh, I had sought to involve him as well, but I certainly had a strong feeling that not everyone was intent on letting the guy on the bridge steer the ship.
44:47The bookies say betting is quiet as yet on an election outcome. They expect a Tory victory, but they're not as confident as in 1983, when many of them gave up taking bets.
45:02The campaign is very important indeed, but there is some sign in the polls that there's a volatility about the vote.
45:09So I think the opposition parties feel that they've got everything to play for.
45:12Labour will be concentrating its campaign on a few issues and hoping for an anti-Thatcher reaction.
45:19Presented in the right way, the Prime Minister was an asset.
45:26But it was part of my judgement that we had to avoid the accusation that the government was a one-woman show.
45:45Because the chairman of the party is about to pat a dog.
45:49We were looking at issues rather than individuals.
45:55We had produced one of the election broadcasts, which she loved all the way through until it came to the end, where Norman delivered the message.
46:06And at that point, you could see that she was furious about that, that she saw herself as being the focal point of the campaign.
46:16So a warm welcome, please, for the next occupants of number 10 Downing Street, Neil and Glenys.
46:27Labour are pinching themselves to be sure their unexpectedly good start is not a dream.
46:32Conservatives know they've got a fight in their hands.
46:35Until today, the Conservative machine has seemed a little amateurish compared with Labour's.
46:40But in Newport this morning, it was to be Mrs Thatcher's first big campaign speech.
46:45And the party leaders were hoping it would turn back the Labour tide.
46:48The left has become the centre of the Labour Party.
46:53We're all physically exhausted. She used to work a 20-hour day. She used to get two or three hours sleep a night.
47:03And this has gone on year after year after year. So we're fraught.
47:08It didn't ease my life to have somebody else who was talking to her about how the campaign was running.
47:19You know, she could always talk to me about how the campaign was running and I would tell her.
47:25Every day we were getting opinion polls which showed that it was going according to plan.
47:31This was the one election in my life and I suddenly found myself in the centre.
47:46So every night I kept her diving.
47:49I got to number ten about a quarter to ten.
47:52Stephen saw us and told her she was very tired.
47:55In fact, she'd been suffering from a very bad toothache.
47:59She was tetchy. She was very depressed. And worst of all, she knew the poll result.
48:06First editions come out and there's a poll which shows a pretty significant drop in the Conservative lead.
48:13Of course, the first thing you think about it is just the beginning of a trend.
48:17Because if the trend goes on, we're in big trouble.
48:20We're going to lose our lead and we're going to lose.
48:23So we all, I think, had the same fear which kind of infected everybody else.
48:29So there was a kind of sense of group hysteria.
48:36A week from today, the campaigning will be over.
48:39And with the polls swinging erratically, the election may be in a new, exciting phase.
48:44Opinion polls were suddenly ghastly.
48:47Margaret Thatcher herself had a spell of ill health at the time.
48:50She had acute toothache.
48:52She was not really her normal ebullient self.
48:54She was really struggling to put on a confident face.
48:59Could Mrs Thatcher tell us when she last trusted the National Health Service enough to put herself in its hands, please?
49:05Oh, I had that question on a phone-in yesterday.
49:08I'm sorry you didn't listen to the answer.
49:10It can't be everywhere.
49:11Ah, no, it can't be everywhere, no, but you can listen.
49:17When we had had the press conference and we then had the morning meeting with the Chairman,
49:22the Prime Minister was determined the campaign was not going right,
49:28the campaign had to be changed, and the Prime Minister was on the warpath.
49:32And she was on the warpath.
49:37Margaret lost it.
49:39Lost it completely.
49:40I had never seen her in such a state.
49:44She was very rude about the advertising, for which I was personally blamed.
49:49She was physically changed.
49:53I understand that was now because she was in terrible pain because of her bad teeth.
49:59But there was something going on there.
50:02It was rather like letting a firework go off and having to just watch it and think,
50:07how much gunpowder is there left in the firework?
50:10And it was quite a lot of gunpowder.
50:12I looked at Willie Whitelaw and he looked at me and his oyster eyes just rolled and rolled.
50:20Norman tried to discuss matters with her.
50:26She refused to discuss anything.
50:29David Young said,
50:31Leave it to us, Margaret. We'll sort. I'll sort it, Margaret.
50:35And I was put to the sword.
50:39I had no idea why.
50:42As we left the room, Willie Whitelaw and I were walking down the corridor.
50:49And he said to me that there is a woman who will never fight another election campaign.
51:00Eventually, it was agreed that we should have a complete advertising blitz,
51:05costing a fortune, no doubt.
51:07She was going to come to the rescue on her horse.
51:12She was going to do all the media.
51:14She was going to be the saviour of the campaign.
51:16Hello, hello, hello.
51:26She was determined that I'm the one who can get the message across.
51:29I'm the one who's going to save the campaign.
51:31It is called leadership, by the way.
51:34Ladies and gentlemen, we have the achievements.
51:37We have the policies for the future.
51:40Did you agree with her?
51:43I wasn't going to argue with her.
51:49It's ten o'clock on Thursday, June the 11th.
51:52The polling stations are closed, the count is about to begin,
51:55and the final opinion polls suggest a very close result.
51:59Prime Minister.
52:00How do you feel tonight?
52:01How do you feel?
52:02How do you feel?
52:07Cautiously optimistic.
52:15People are already gathering in London's Piccadilly Circus
52:17in front of a giant electronic scoreboard
52:19that will be keeping a tally on the results as they come in.
52:22Do you think we're going to have a close result tonight?
52:27I'm just going to wait and see.
52:29Just wait and see.
52:30Very cautious as you know.
52:37We've been broadcasting the news of the result.
52:39The Conservatives have won the 1987 general election
52:42and will lead Britain into the 1990s with a parliamentary majority
52:47of over 100 seats.
52:53It was at half past two this morning that Margaret Hilda Thatcher
52:56made political history.
52:57She became the first Prime Minister for more than 160 years
53:01to win three successive terms of office.
53:04I remember the Prime Minister arriving,
53:11and I remember particularly taking her to the window,
53:17opening the window,
53:19and waving to those assembled outside.
53:23A very pleasant evening.
53:35We have a great deal of work to do,
53:37so no-one must slack.
53:40We can have a party tonight.
53:42You can have a party tonight.
53:44You will have a marvellous party tonight.
53:46And you can clear up tomorrow, but on Monday,
53:48you know, we've got a big job to do.
53:58There she was returned with a majority of over 100.
54:04What we had been saying to her was borne out.
54:07And I thought this is a wonderful opportunity
54:10to put all of the pain to one side
54:13and to come back together again as one team.
54:18My office was packed with cabinet members,
54:21editors of the press.
54:23The editor of the Daily Express was there.
54:25One or two other big enchiladas of the game.
54:29And me.
54:30And she went down both sides of the room shaking hands.
54:34Thank you, thank you, thank you so much, thank you.
54:36She came to me.
54:37She blanked me completely and walked past.
54:42And I thought, Margaret, you didn't need to do that.
54:45You know, this was an opportunity to heal,
54:49not to rub salt in the wounds.
54:52She would never, never dreamed of doing that
54:56five years previously.
54:58But that reminded me that my time in politics was at an end.
55:06And I had to go off and find a new life.
55:08It was a great victory in many ways in 87.
55:18It was a great success and Mr. Thatcher was very strong.
55:22And I took a view soon after the election
55:25that it was right for me to move on from number 10.
55:29Because my fear always was that Prime Ministers on the whole
55:34crush land.
55:35They don't normally go voluntarily.
55:38They normally get ousted by the electorate
55:42or by their party or by their colleagues.
55:44Good morning.
55:45And I just thought,
55:47I'm going to go out when the share price is high.
55:51The thing which changed my relationship
55:57with Margaret Thatcher was her having to accept
56:02Good morning.
56:03That I would not serve in her next administration.
56:08It did seem to me that it came as a heavier blow
56:14than it ought.
56:16But I had warned her beforehand
56:21that I would not wish to go on.
56:24But I suspect she had listened too much
56:28to those people who were whispering in her ear
56:32that I was setting out to supplant her.
56:39If she was looking for disloyalty,
56:41she was looking in the wrong place.
56:43It was actually the most difficult time during her Prime Ministership
56:58in personal terms,
57:00in terms of personal stress and strain and tension.
57:03I remember feeling deeply concerned about it at the time
57:08and that whether after eight or nine years as Prime Minister
57:12it would be really sensible for her to commit herself
57:15to go on too long.
57:21Although I've subsequently for many, many years forgotten
57:23I'd ever done this,
57:25wrote her a letter.
57:27And I wrote as follows.
57:30Carla and I send you our warmest congratulations
57:34on your remarkable election victory
57:36and even more on the fantastic personal effort which achieved it.
57:40If ever a party in a country were carried to success
57:43on the shoulders of one person,
57:45it's been over this last eight years
57:48and the election was the reward.
57:50All the same, I hope you will not put yourself through it again.
57:55The level of personal abuse thrown at you during the campaign
57:58was unbelievable and must take some toll,
58:01however stoic you are outwardly.
58:04In two or three years' time,
58:05you will have completed the most sweeping change
58:07this country has seen in decades
58:10and your place in history will be rivalled in this century
58:13only by Churchill.
58:14That's the time to contribute in some other area.
58:21This is tight.
58:23In order to save your eyes,
58:24there are no copies.
58:26With affection and respect,
58:28Charles and Carla.
58:35A strange letter for a civil servant to write,
58:37I would concede,
58:38but a deeply felt one.
58:43I think it's a letter a friend would send.
58:50Avid supporter of Mrs T, Alan Clarke's colourful and candid diaries now,
59:07over on BBC Four.
59:09And tomorrow, here on BBC Two,
59:11the oldest and the largest, the godfather of the planets.
59:14Brian Cox looks at Jupiter at nine.
59:16Next tonight,
59:17walk like an Egyptian into the hits, power ballads and crazes of 1986.
59:21It'll take your breath away.
Recomendado
52:53
|
A Seguir
1:01:21
59:28
59:30
1:48
1:34
4:23
58:55
46:51
1:24:21
43:59
1:30:23